Topic Author
Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:07 pm


Wed Feb 10, 1999 3:32 pm

The ua aviator guy is a **&%^%^(*_ !!

While searching CNN webpage tonight I
came across this! Now I know why Iain left!
Iain this guy is a freak and don't leave because
of him!
EVERYONE GO TO THIS LINK !! It explains everything

( [Editors note:] Broken link, read the next post. )

THIS IS BIG NEWS!! You guys should check this out!!
Topic Author
Posts: 706
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:07 pm


Wed Feb 10, 1999 3:56 pm

ALL THIS INFO IS FROM CNN !! A reliable source!
Sorry about the bogus link, it's late here!


Wed Feb 10, 1999 4:12 pm

Yeah FedEx got it right I found out about this website earlier today not knowing what to do I thought I extract myself from the situation.. I just want everyone to know that you should never be ashamed by who you are. Every one in this world is great. Well I guess I am back. I apologize if you guys think I am playing around but that is some pretty tripped out SH*T and it is something I would expect to find on the TV and think that will never happen to me. Boy was I wrong!!


Wed Feb 10, 1999 6:36 pm


So, CaptPeter was right in questionning creadibility of Aviator_ua, and was flamed by the rest of the forum for that... we were wrong...

I don't know, I don't have enough fluency in English to comment on this disclosure... Pretty much THE DISCLOSURE of the Information Age, shall we say?


RE: Devastating...

Wed Feb 10, 1999 7:07 pm

I made a search with "captain_ua": he spoke a lot, often on technically questions... Bravo, Thanks FedEx for your investigations, Virgin Atlantic, stay with us, we need your experience & knowledge. I'm an engineer student in Paris, I read a lot of books about civil aviation, but nothing can replace the knowledge of professionals.


Wed Feb 10, 1999 7:39 pm

I have always personally thought he is a fraud, and find it quite ironic that everyone got bent out of shape when captpeter made known mine and his doubts about this guy. Well I'm glad now everyone knows the truth about him.
Posts: 305
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 12:31 am


Wed Feb 10, 1999 8:30 pm

What can l say...Good work mate...Let us all learn from this, and there is a lot to learn from. Make sure we all keep our professionalism throughout any further conflicts that we may face. Good work all..
See yah...
David L
Posts: 8550
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

Let's Not Forget...

Wed Feb 10, 1999 8:52 pm

.. the real detective work done by the contributor on the CNN board.

Now, where were we?


Wed Feb 10, 1999 9:52 pm

What an interesting development this is ! I have always felt that anybody who needs to pride himself that much on a career to be heard either is an egomaniac or isn't all he says he is. Ever since he didn't know that mach numbers are expressed as 0.82 rather than 0.082 I was rather skeptical. However, maybe we should allow aviator_ua to defend his actions before we really start jumping to conclusions. If he has any kind of backbone he will be on the net explaining what exactly is going on. This is a problem inherent to the internet anyway, there is no way you can check anybodies identity (at least not easily) so many people do lie. This I have no problem with personally (come on, we've all done it...) as long as you don't profess to make statements based on your supposed knowledge and as long as you keep seeing it yourself as a joke. Even using names like this (Cool Cat IIIc) leaves us totally anonymous and being able to fabricate any story we would like. For that reason I have never made any claims about myself. I just speak my mind as an anonymous person and that's ok (I hope).
One thing about aviator_ua, he does definately know something about flying for united, so he has ties somewhere. Then again, if MD-11 would say he's a pilot I would have easily believed him because he's so knowledgable. My point being, if you bullsh*t, do it about something you know quite a bit about (which is exactly what avaitor_ua seems to have done).
So, aviator_ua, if you read this (and I know you do), show us all that we have judged you too harshly and explain us what's really going on. What do you say ?
And finally, Iain, welcome back !
David L
Posts: 8550
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am


Wed Feb 10, 1999 10:16 pm

I'll go along with that, Cool Cat IIIc. But me, lie? Never!

Now, where did I park my Rolls Royce?
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Joined: Mon May 31, 1999 4:44 am

No one can be sure

Wed Feb 10, 1999 10:46 pm

Rob Plenert says: "... By naming these two people, I do not intend to discredit them. I only wish to show that they are not who they claimed to be. 2. If I am incorrect in identifying them, then I appologize unreservedly up front."

Maybe Rob has made an icorrect identification of these two people.

I just want to say that due to Internet dangers anything is possible, so it's to early to make conclusions out of this.

Mirage, Faro, Portugal
Luis Rosa
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:07 pm


Wed Feb 10, 1999 10:54 pm

[Editors note:] Excerpt from the CNN Air safety message board on

Rob Plenert - Tuesday, 02/09/99, 62428pm (#4151 of 4170)


This site provides an excellent forum for people to express their opinions and to
discuss theories pertaining to Air Safety - particularly the Swissair 111 crash.

There have been recent situations where certain participants have posted
information that is misleading. This in itself is occasionally acceptable, because
after all, we are human, and nobody has all of the answers. Where it becomes a
problem, is when the participants suggest they can back up their statements due
to direct experience in their field. If pressed, it becomes appearent that's not
true, and they simply are not the person they claim to be. Such is the case of
two individuals under the names 'AVIATOR_UA', and 'JOHN FAZIO'.
Aviator_ua has been very active on two other message boards -
AIRLINERS.NET, and the YAHOO SR111 CLUB; while John Fazio was until
recently, actively involved in this board.

At first thought they appear to be the same person. Both have made statements
claimed as fact, and when challenged, neither can provide direct proof of their
statements. Both have deliberately IMPLIED that they were professional
commercial pilots, while errors in various statements suggest otherwise.

(Post continued...)

Rob Plenert - Tuesday, 02/09/99, 62647pm (#4152 of 4170)

As I said before, normally it wouldn't be a problem because this is the Internet.
But in the case of Aviator_ua, he/she has had numerous discussions on the
Yahoo site DIRECTLY WITH family members of victims of the crash.
Aviator_ua discussions often appear inflammatory, and due to his constant
involvement, I believe they have significantly influenced the tone of that board.

Imagine being a victim's relative, attempting to gleen information from an
aviation expert - such as an experienced commercial pilot - only to find out that
he's something like a shoe-salesman. (Sorry those of you in that trade. I'm only
making a point.)

Well, enough said on my concern. Before I tell you what's going on, I'll preface
it with a few disclaimers

1. By naming these two people, I do not intend to discredit them. I only wish to
show that they are not who they claimed to be.

2. If I am incorrect in identifying them, then I appologize unreservedly up front.

3. I am making no suggestion by providing links that any other persons or
businesses are involved.

(Post continued...)

Rob Plenert - Tuesday, 02/09/99, 63007pm (#4153 of 4170)

Besides the incident on this board where John Fazio was challenged for some of
the information he provided, I noticed on AIRLINERS.NET, and the SR111
CLUB message boards that Aviator_ua was also being challenged about his

In one of his posts he claimed to be a 44 year old commercial pilot, and his dad
had also been a pilot with United Airlines. In the case of Aviator_ua's profile, he
stated he was involved in aviation based out of New York. So, given that
background, first I'll show you how I tracked down Aviator_ua. Here's the trail
I followed. The links in each sub-heading are my proof

(Post continued...)

Rob Plenert - Tuesday, 02/09/99, 63304pm (#4154 of 4170)

1. Here's AVIATOR_UA's first mistake - using the name Kevin Mahoney, a
commercial pilot from New York


2. Next, using the name Kevin Mahoney again, and still involved in the aviation
industry in New York, he posting using a different email address


3. Searching the web with his new email address, I found a comment that Kevin
sent to the Jerusalem Post. The problem with that is that his name is now
suddenly 'Kevin Crotty'.


4. A search of 'Kevin Crotty' places him in a Travel Agency in Yonkers New
York. Here Kevin is listed as a 'Computer' staff member. And get this - just try
to guess who the president of the Travel Agency is?...None other than Mr. John


5. So, you were right after all, John Fazio and Aviator_ua are the same person!
Well now that thought I found him, I remembered that he posted his dad was a
United Airlines pilot. So I searched again, and found an aviation flight learning
center in New York, that photo-documented a field-trip by some students to
United Airlines. (The learning centre offers outreach programs to high-school
students who want to get into aviation as a career. They provide aviation
training, flight time in small aircraft, and they have a small simulator.) In one of
the photos, you can see there's a real Captain Ray Mahoney, who surprisingly
looks good for being someone's 44-year-old dad.

(Post continued...)

Rob Plenert - Tuesday, 02/09/99, 63629pm (#4155 of 4170)

This trail has an erie resemblance to the movie Usual Suspects, where the main
character employs the identity of many people around him, into fabricating his

Like I say, I could be way off base here. Or else, this character has many more
layers he's hidden behind, and poor Kevin Crotty is also being used. I'll let you
make up your minds on that. I'd rather not dig deeper, simply because it's not
necessary. Suffice to say that we should be wary of people who have way too
much time on their hands. If nothing else, it makes you think about the
'electronic fingerprint' we all leave behind us on the internet.

I'll leave you with one of Aviator_ua's famous quotes again from the
AIRLINERS.NET message board (Post 02-03-99 0233) "...there is no
substitute for being yourself and being honest..."


Michael Zolkiewski - Tuesday, 02/09/99, 72744pm (#4156 of 4170)

Rob, I am speechless. And you discovered all this from your desk overlooking
the PAcific (I guess). That's the power of Internet! As I said before, this whole
thing is a dream for a Ph.D. candidate in sociology.

By the way, Aviator's profile at YAhoo has been updated today. No new info
though... (CNN did not let me post the link to his profile, but you know how to
find it).

Robert Foothorap - Tuesday, 02/09/99, 75931pm (#4157 of 4170)

Rob Plenert 2/9/99 636pm

Rob, what an amazing piece of work. I suspect there will be more to this story.
This is a like reading a novel.

Cecil - Tuesday, 02/09/99, 84909pm (#4158 of 4170)

Rob....or should I say "Cyber Cop." Some acomplishment, some story, some
poor soul. I hope that the poster was an employee and not the principle of a
travel agency and a professional in the industry.

Now, I can't help but ponder if any caprice travel ticketed paxs were on board.

Rob Plenert 2/9/99 636pm

Rob, even though I saw the same trail of evidence when you sent that message
to me yesterday, I am still extremely impressed by the way you managed to
track these people down.

That's incredible. And also frightening, both from the point of view of the
electronic fingerprint we all leave behind (as you mentioned), and from the point
of view that people would really do something like this hiding behind
questionable identities, pretending to be something and someone that they really
are not, for unknown purposes.

I leave it up to the sociologists and psychologists (and your own imagination!) as
to just what people like this one (these two?) actually hope to achieve Why
would someone go around all over the internet, pretending to be a pilot, stirring
up hatred, spreading incorrect information, and generally creating chaos, anger
and heartache? I cannot fathom why someone would do that! It makes no sense
to me unless they hoped to get something out of it Money? Revenge? An ego
trip? Who knows what the real reason might be. I have my own opinion, but I'll
keep it to myself.

Suffice it to say that this kind of twisted mentality has done a lot of damage,
both here and on the other boards you mentioned. A lot of people really believed
in that mis-information, many of them family members of the victims, and now
they won't know what to think any more, or who to believe. Its sad to think
about that. What a world we live in!

China King - Tuesday, 02/09/99, 92047pm (#4162 of 4170)

Totally awesome, Roblock Holmes. That takes some digging.

Look, I found something else interesting. You'll need two browser windows to
do this justice. Open one to


and the second one to


and have a good look.
Posts: 4722
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 10:42 pm

RE: No one can be sure

Wed Feb 10, 1999 11:16 pm

Damn! I'm so confused hehehehe

BWIADCA - Nikon D100

RE: David L

Thu Feb 11, 1999 12:24 am

I think your RR is parked under my brand new MD-11. ;-)

Noel Benford
Posts: 5748
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:54 am

RE: David L and Noe Benford.

Thu Feb 11, 1999 12:26 am

Can both of you move your vehicles so I can park my space shuttle properly?
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower

Leutenants David L, Benford...

Thu Feb 11, 1999 1:28 am

...and special agent CX747, who auhorised you stock your transport in my AREA 51?? We're expecting a cargo delivery from Constellation Andromeda, and your vehicles are causing distruction to the scheduled UFO landings...

Topic Author
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RE: You left your lights on!

Thu Feb 11, 1999 1:45 am

Hey David you left your lights on! hehe
Have a good one all!
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Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:06 am

RE: David L

Thu Feb 11, 1999 1:58 am

Hey there..I believe you left your RB-211 on the wing at the gate......hehe...
David L
Posts: 8550
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

At Last!

Thu Feb 11, 1999 2:06 am

Now we're talking MY specialist subject - Complete and Utter Rubbish!


Breaking news

Thu Feb 11, 1999 4:05 am

Hey all,
I have just recieved an E-mail from non other then aviator ua. He claims that the duds who wrote the article is jealous of him. ANd he is going to file legal charges just for the fun of it. Then he goes into how he is going to kick his ass so his mouth will not be able to do any more lieing.
I also noticed 2 things:
1) He did not sign the letter.
2) It was only sent to 2 members of this forum both of us are young. It was FlyF15 and myself. I wonder what all this means.
Also David your Rolls Royce needs a bath!! My Bentley is being cleaned as we speak.

RE: Rubbish talk!

Thu Feb 11, 1999 4:16 am

I like it! ;-) Now, where are the keys to my aircraft carrier? I think I left them in my 2nd home on mars.

Noel Benford
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Rubbish talk!

Thu Feb 11, 1999 4:31 am

Boy, Oh Boy! Why am I not surprised it wasn't posted on the site?

Hey you RR and Bently owners. You realize that I still have the right-of-way over you guys on the roads up here. Besides a little mud adds character to a car.
David L
Posts: 8550
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Breaking news

Thu Feb 11, 1999 4:52 am

Interesting reaction. Just keep someone around you informed, Iain.

Bentley? Pah - poor man's Rolls Royce. (Actually, I'd rather have a Jag but I'm not going to say that here.)

RE: David L

Thu Feb 11, 1999 5:16 am

My dad has a jag he has ordered the new S series those are nice. He does not let me drive it though.
David L
Posts: 8550
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: David L

Thu Feb 11, 1999 5:30 am

Good, we're agreed about cars. Now let's pack this in before we get thrown out for going off subject! :) I've already had a yellow card a couple of weeks ago - sorry about that, Johan.

Henceforth this day shall be known as The Day Iain Came Back and we'll all remember what we were doing on The Day Iain Came Back. I knew you would - you're obviously connected to this board by a very strong piece of elastic.

Now, back to the top of the board!


Thu Feb 11, 1999 6:20 am

BAHAHAHAHAHA. I told you!!! I told you he was a fraud!!!!!! Hahahaha, you guys are losers (Except for L1011-500, FedEx, MD-11 and a few others) Oh boy, you fell for it. I was right!!!! I was right!!!!!!
Oh the joy is filling me through and through. This is why I told you to never belive a person unless you meet them face to face.


Thu Feb 11, 1999 6:36 am

Okay, I'm sorry. You guys aren't losers except for Aviator_UA. You guys are pretty good. I had a few people e-mail me to come back and I will come back on occassion but I won't be here full time. See you in the Skies.
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Breaking News

Thu Feb 11, 1999 7:49 am

Yea, Iain, I got that email too. I don't really want to get myself involved in this, I just hope that all of this stuff we are saying about him and from CNN is true, 'cause remember, if it is all fake, we are slamming a very hard working honest man. But if it is all true, I say let the @$$ whooping begin.
David L
Posts: 8550
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Breaking News

Thu Feb 11, 1999 8:05 am

I'd also recommend everyone reads the original post very carefully. Don't read something that isn't there or put words into the contributor's mouth.
Posts: 6633
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 11:10 am

RE: Breaking News

Thu Feb 11, 1999 8:15 am

Yes, I would like every one to remember that all of this stuff from CNN is from a forum not too unlike this one. This guy that said all this stuff about aviator-ua could be BSing as much as he says aviator_ua is. And also, remember, we know (or at least aviator_ua has told us) much more about aviator_ua then this guy.
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Breaking News

Thu Feb 11, 1999 8:18 am

True very True.

As for everybody else you can keep your exotic cars. I'll stick with my seventeen year old Ford pickup truck

RE: Breaking News

Thu Feb 11, 1999 8:34 am

But he has not dinied it like I would have done the second I found out. All I know is he wants to beat his as* and make him not able to speak again. This is not how I would expect a pilot to do. What if he finds that dude on his plane can you imagen him beating up a passenger. But this might be all wrong but the article did convince me and I am avioding it till the end comes!!!!
David L
Posts: 8550
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Breaking News

Thu Feb 11, 1999 8:38 am

FlyF15's right - who do you trust? Aviator_UA does seem to know a lot about aviation but I've been following the discussion at CNN since it started and I've never seen Rob Plenert make any brash claims, spout wild opinions which weren't based on some sort of evidence or go off on an ego trip. If you follow the links he's provided you'll see a lot of 'coincidences'. There are more coincidences in Aviator's posts on another forum but that one involves a lot of friends and relatives of the victims of SR-111.
Posts: 2144
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 8:02 am

RE: Breaking News

Thu Feb 11, 1999 10:29 am

I just got through reading all these post and I was flabbergasted. I trusted aviator_ua, but I was also surprised at his error with the mach numbers. I hope he will come on the forum and explain himself. Also, I don't believe everything I read, so until it is proven, I'll keep an open mind about it. A person is innocent until proven guilty. And I'm not afraid to use my real name.

Bob Bradley
Richmond, VA

Fly Eastern's Golden Falcon DC-7B
Topic Author
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RE: FACTS! /Capt Peter

Thu Feb 11, 1999 10:41 am

I'm sorry but if you fly a B767 for a living you
should know MACH numbers right off the top of
your head along with other things such as checklist.

Capt Peter, The minute I read all the information
about ua I had a huge smile on my face thinking
about you laughing at this whole thing! Laughter
is the greatest thing !!! So is humor ! hehe


Thu Feb 11, 1999 11:13 am

Can someone please e-mail me at and summerize what the heck is going on. I am really busy these days, and there are SO SO many posts! Thank-you in advnace!!!


Thu Feb 11, 1999 12:02 pm

Posts: 61
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 5:42 pm

RE: Breaking News

Thu Feb 11, 1999 12:17 pm

I have never liked Aviator_ua. I've always thought he was a know-it-all type of a person. I also hated it how he referred to United Airlines as "WE AT UA" or someething instead of just..United Airlines!!

But I am too confused a long with FAUnited7. I've been following the forum since summer about 8 months and I remember the whole CaptPeter controversy but how does Iainhol tie in with this mess? When did he ever leave the foruM? please help. I've been following the forum and i'm still lost. Maybe I should read FedEx's 1st post more closely because I just skimmed it! So much to read, so little time.

United air

Thu Feb 11, 1999 12:51 pm

I was the first to find out about aviator ua being a fake and I at that time. I also called FedEx that night and he talked me in a to plan were we would tell all of you about aviator ua. He told everyone about it if I agreed to come back. I really like this forum and I felt that this forum was unsafe after hearing about that. And it scared me.
Well I am back and I have no plans to leave now all of this has been worked out.
Posts: 96
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 11:47 pm


Fri Feb 12, 1999 3:07 am

So how do we know aviator_ua isn't still here using another name now ? Or maybe in the future he will be back with another name and another nice story. I bet he will be.
Fly Delta Jets | DL757

RE: Proven Guilty?

Fri Feb 12, 1999 5:34 am

I think that since aviator_ua has not come back and posted a message to clear things up, he is guilty. I'm sure he's reading all of the posts now. DL757, you might be right about him returning under another alias. Never trust anyone is the key, unfortunately. Be careful.

Noel Benford
Dayton, Ohio

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