zippyjet
Posts: 5077
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:53 am

If this has been covered sorry, please don't flame me out!

RoseFlyer excellent thread on the L-1011 at 35 got me to thinking...
What if Lockheed was still in the commercial airliner business? Some of my thoughts though they may be way off course:

  • Of course, there would be like a 4th. Or 5th. Generation L-1011 probably with engines from another vendor. And, the latest version would expand on the originals lower level concept (galley) and have of course food and beverage facilities, seating, crew rest, showers, and whatever else you can imagine for a jumbo uber bird. Of course to go head on with the 380 and the
    747-8.
  • HSCT would be closer to reality than with no Lockheed (commercial aviation)
  • Of course Lockheed would come out with the obligatory twin engine 120
    seater to go mano omato with the A-320 and venerable 727.
  • An intermediate sized plane to compete with the 757.
  • Depending on market needs, Lockheed may have developed a wide body
    ETOPS twin.
Would have pursued the UDF/propfan. Originally, back in the 70's
I first read about the UDF concept being developed by Lockheed. I can't cite the source but I explicit remember:
"This airliner could efficiently fly the busy New York-Miami route in the same 2 to 2.5 hour time frame as a conventional jet with a miniscule amount of added noise.
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OPNLguy
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RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:03 am

>>>If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

If they were, I think you could be absolutely assured of two things:

- They'd make one hell of an advanced aircraft,

- The number of threads on airliners.net would increase, since you'd then have the usual A vs. B, and then A vs. L, and B vs. L.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
columba
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RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 5:20 am

If Lockheed would have survived McDonnel Douglas would have left the scene much earlier.
I could also imagine a twin engined L1011 as a 767/777 counterpart and a smaller A320/737 sized aircraft. Maybe they would have turned the C 5 Galaxy into a civillian plane as they planned.
How are the chances that they will produce a civialian aircraft again, maybe a regional aircraft ?
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
greasespot
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RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:40 am

Then the boards would be full of A VS B vs L threads instead of just A vs B... Smile

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
beechnut
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RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:29 am

How about dreaming: an SR-71 based airliner...

Eat dust Concorde!

Mike
 
474218
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RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:59 am

I would still have a job!

Quoting Columba (Reply 2):
If Lockheed would have survived McDonnel Douglas would have left the scene much earlier.
I could also imagine a twin engined L1011 as a 767/777 counterpart and a smaller A320/737 sized aircraft. Maybe they would have turned the C 5 Galaxy into a civillian plane as they planned.
How are the chances that they will produce a civialian aircraft again, maybe a regional aircraft ?

Lockheed had a family of airplanes with the L-1011-1 as the base. There was a longer fuselage version L-1011-300, a two engine design L-1011-600 a shortened fuselage L-1011-400 with de-rated RB-22-524 engines and a pure freighter. But when Rolls Royce went bankrupt, the Cheyenne was cancelled and there were cost over runs on the C-5 program, they just did not have the money to produce them. After there was a little cash flow they were able to build the L-1011-500 but it was too little too late.

Lockheed will has no plans to re-enter the commercial market. It takes billions of dollars design and build an airliner and billions more to establish the support functions required to market a commercial aircraft, and Lockheed no longer has these in place. They are satisfied to sell as many F-22's and F-35's as they can and let A and B fight it out for the civilian market.

But if and when they do decide to re-enter the commercial market it will be with the most technologically advanced airliner you will have ever seen.
 
zippyjet
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:16 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 5):
There was a longer fuselage version L-1011-300, a two engine design L-1011-600 a shortened fuselage L-1011-400 with de-rated RB-22-524 engines and a pure freighter.

Any pictures of prototypes/artist's renderings on the Internet?
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egnr
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RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 9:31 am

Quoting Zippyjet (Reply 6):
Any pictures of prototypes/artist's renderings on the Internet?

This ARTICLE (in German) has a couple of pics in it showing the L-1011-400 and L-1011-600. I also found a pic of an L-1011-600 display model opn the web as well:
http://aviationmodels-online.com/for_sale/page_9/L1011-600.jpg
7late7, A3latey, Sukhoi Superlate... what's going on?
 
zippyjet
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Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:32 pm

RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:08 am

Quoting EGNR (Reply 7):
This ARTICLE (in German) has a couple of pics in it showing the L-1011-400 and L-1011-600. I also found a pic of an L-1011-600 display model opn the web as well:

Thank You!


The black and white bird looks tubby and strange with the tail farther away from the tail cone then on other aircraft. The model in color looks like a cool design.
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malaysia
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RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:02 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 5):
Lockheed will has no plans to re-enter the commercial market.

They would do it again if some idiot airline tycoon comes up to the office with loads of cash and requests a new commercial aircraft design or even better an L-1011 NG with Trent engines and winglets. I once played around making a super L-1011 with a 3-3-3-3 config 777 fuselage and 3 GE90 engines.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
474218
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RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:10 pm

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 9):
idiot airline tycoon comes up to the office with loads of cash

I don't think there are any of those left?
 
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N328KF
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RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:24 pm

Quoting 474218 (Reply 10):
I don't think there are any of those left?

Oh, there's plenty of them, but they usually go to B or A. The last one was named Kerry Sheen.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Max Q
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RE: If Lockheed Was Still In The Airliner Business!

Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:36 pm

An L1011 stretch would have been a beautiful aircraft.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.