SNBA
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SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:56 pm

Any thoughts / expectations / news about SN Brussels Airlines in 2006 !?
All comments are welcome...
 
gkirk
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:13 pm

IMO, they could do with smaller a/c, such as the Embraer 145/170 to serve some of the UK routes such as BRS, NCL and GLA. The RJ85s and RJ100s may be a bit too big judging by current loads.
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
kiwiandrew

RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:15 pm

As a newcomer to Bruxelles I have been pleasantly surprised by SNBA - it seems to be one of the few things in Belgium that is actually run as a business and it's staff and management seem to actually understand the concept of customer service ( and as anyone who has lived in Belgium knows customer service is not something that Belgium 'businesses' go in for  Wink )

I wish them luck, and believe that if they stick to their current formula they will continue to succeed , I hope that they continue to grow in a manageable manner while keeping their focus . It would be nice to see them come under the OW banner - but I am not sure whether they have enough to offer OW to become a full member ( though they would certainly fill in a few gaps in Africa )
 
Koenie
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:18 pm

More flights to Prague and more to Turin during the olympic winter games I believe

Codeshare with ethiad to Toronto, Abu Dhabi (and bus service to Dubai?)

Aarhus is also a new destination.. don't know if it's own or codeshare...

Is just what I remember from an article in the newspaper
 
Koenie
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:21 pm

Quality wise they are above OneWorld. WAAAAAAY above.... (compare to IB... )
 
kiwiandrew

RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:24 pm

Quoting Koenie (Reply 4):
Quality wise they are above OneWorld. WAAAAAAY above.... (compare to IB... )

quality wise I am unaware of any airline that doesn't compare favourably when measured against IB  Wink but I agree SNBA are a class act
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:38 pm

Quoting Koenie (Reply 4):
Quality wise they are above OneWorld. WAAAAAAY above....

May be when compared to BA... But compare them to BA and AY....
I think they could seek entry into OW. They could add a lot to the alliance and be part of a quality team...
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
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PM
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:52 pm

Rumour has it they'll add another A330 in 2006 and I know they're looking at opening routes to East Africa.
 
AIR MALTA
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:12 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 7):
May be when compared to BA

I was saying, compare them to IB...  Wink

SN should cover the whole North Africa : Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia.
Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
 
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PM
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:36 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 8):
Quoting PM (Reply 7):
May be when compared to BA

I was saying, compare them to IB...

Not quoting me...  confused 
 
SNBA
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:23 pm

Why not an A380 entering the fleet in order to operate on their high demand african routes?!
I am just kidding... it is only a dream...
 
samL
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:34 pm

Not so sure about the north Africa idea, SNBA seem to specialise in being the only western airline to serve distinctly out of the way destinations. North Africa is pretty well covered by BA/GT (five destinations in Morocco alone), LH and particularly AF. As I understand most of SN's business traffic is connecting, I can't see north african routes holding up well against other European competition. I think they should focus on their strengths and maybe start serving some of the emerging oil destinations places like Sao Tome
 
mauriceb
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:50 pm

they are also intensivly looking at replacing the avro's with new fokkers, if re-launched... as we al know the CEO of SN is also the head chief of Rekkof...
 
dfwmzuri
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:11 am

This is my very first post as I only recently joined. I enjoy this site. I am flying SN for the first time in February, BRU-NBO, and I'm looking forward to it.
 
jambo
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:15 am

They should fly to Tanzania. It could be an extension to their current operations to NBO. May be BRU- NBO- DAR
 
Avro85
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:57 am

I think 2006 will be a quite year for SN. Maybe an additional A330 that's all.

But as from 2007 I think they will be searching for new investors. Wasn't it like that. This will be very interesting to follow. Might BA try to take a share in SN ? who knows....

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 1):
IMO, they could do with smaller a/c, such as the Embraer 145/170 to serve some of the UK routes such as BRS, NCL and GLA

They could indeed use some smaller equipment on several routes, but don't expect any change in smaller planes soon. The Avro's are here to stay for an other couple of years.

Chris
 
SNBA
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:03 am

Any ideas about new aircrafts, new destinations etc, etc?!!?
 
klmcedric
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:04 am

Maybe PVG would be an idea for SN. There's a large detachment of BARCO
in Shangai, and KLM C-class is frequently filled with BARCO people.
I know one firm can't ensure the viability of flight, but Shangai probably has
lot's of other business to offer.Maybe the 788 might come in handy for
SN to explore new long-haul routes, hopefully also outside of Africa.
I wish them all the best.
 
Avro85
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:05 am

Quoting SNBA (Reply 16):
Any ideas about new aircrafts, new destinations etc, etc?!!?

Well as I said for the planes we can maybe expect an additional long haul plane. A330 or maybe B767....

As for new destinations I have no idea. Maybe some more codesharing  Wink

Chris
 
Avro85
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 17):
Maybe PVG would be an idea for SN

If PVG would be served by SN I would rather believe it to be a codeshare with Hainan operating the flights.
 
Scorpio
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:15 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 12):
they are also intensivly looking at replacing the avro's with new fokkers, if re-launched... as we al know the CEO of SN is also the head chief of Rekkof...

Short answer to everything you said: no. They're not looking at replacing the Avros with Fokkers, and their CEO has nothing to do with Rekkof.
 
Avianca
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:50 am

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 17):
Maybe PVG would be an idea for SN

yes PVG or an Indian city could be an idea for them. The Belgium traffic +european traffic could be enough to till flights to China or India (+ do not forget a thin conecting traffic from the african countrys to China or India)

regards
Avianca
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
SNBA
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:40 pm

In fact, what about the discussions with Hainan regarding the possible future flights operations between Belgium and China?
 
sk601
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:03 pm

A bit off-topic:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
- ( and as anyone who has lived in Belgium knows customer service is not something that Belgium 'businesses' go in for )

I experienced this different. The 2 years that I lived in Belgium, Belgium businesses are way more into customer service than were I am from (Netherlands).
 
SNBA
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:57 pm

Belgian people are good "entrepreneurs", aren't they?
 
Koenie
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:29 am

SK601: I didn't want to respond to that part of the reply of our Kiwi friend because I thought too that our customer service is generally not that bad comparing to other countries.... glad that a dutchie agreed  Smile
 
SNBA
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:10 pm

In my opinion, SN Brussels Airlines will add another A330 to the fleet in 2006, in order to deal with further development on their african network.
Regarding the medium-haul fleet renewal, I think they are looking at A318/A319/A320... but also at some Embraer's for the "small" routes... Or may be they will consider the 737NG also...
So, the game remains open, isn'it?!
 
Avro85
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:26 pm

Quoting SNBA (Reply 26):
Regarding the medium-haul fleet renewal, I think they are looking at A318/A319/A320... but also at some Embraer's for the "small" routes... Or may be they will consider the 737NG also...
So, the game remains open, isn'it?!

I don't think they are looking at anything for the moment. As I said, the Avro's are here to stay for another couple of years.

Chris
 
qm001
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:34 pm

As far as I am concerned, SNBA will never be SN. ANd that is good. They should focus on what they are good at, and they seem to be very good at connecting West and Central africa to Europe. Their service is impeccable and I wish them all the best.

They could really expand their african business and try to include some underserved capitals like Harare, Tana, Dar and maybe MPM, heck why not LLW. I think that could bring in some serious loot on that route alone. As they have the UK very well covered, they could easily cover the former UK colonies, almost definately better than BA.

As for other belgian business' service levels, I have to say, they are better than most Dutch enterprises, and yet, that never used to be the case, I think many dutch companies have dropped the ball.

GO SNBA!

QM001 (167 Air Malawi)
I wish there was still a flying boat service on the African Lakes!
 
SNBA
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:53 pm

Quoting Avro85 (Reply 27):



Quoting Avro85 (Reply 27):
I don't think they are looking at anything for the moment. As I said, the Avro's are here to stay for another couple of years.

Chris

But the Avros are getting a bit old aren't they?! When did they enter SN fleet?
 
Avro85
Posts: 236
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:59 pm

Quoting SNBA (Reply 29):
But the Avros are getting a bit old aren't they?! When did they enter SN fleet?

I don't have the real figure right here now. But the average age of the SN fleet is somewhere around 7 years.

The avro's where all delivered as new planes to Sabena in the mid 90's. And the last one's where delivered in 99 I think.

It's not that old for planes, and they can for sure fly them some more years.

Chris
 
BrusselsSouth
Posts: 568
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:25 pm

Quoting SNBA (Reply 29):
But the Avros are getting a bit old aren't they?! When did they enter SN fleet?

Here's the fleet listing for SNBA's BAe-146s/ARJs :


Regsitr. - Type - First flight date (dd/mm/yyyy)
OO-DJE - BAe 146-200 - 20/06/1990
OO-DJF - BAe 146-200 - 30/04/1990
OO-DJG - BAe 146-200 - 25/11/1990
OO-DJH - BAe 146-200 - 14/09/1990
OO-DJJ - BAe 146-200 - 13/05/1991
OO-DJK - ARJ-85 - 17/11/1995
OO-DJL - ARJ-85 - 23/11/1995
OO-DJN - ARJ-85 - 07/12/1995
OO-DJO - ARJ-85 - 14/12/1995
OO-DJP - ARJ-85 - 28/04/1996
OO-DJQ - ARJ-85 - 19/06/1996
OO-DJR - ARJ-85 - 19/07/1996
OO-DJS - ARJ-85 - 13/08/1996
OO-DJT - ARJ-85 - 19/09/1996
OO-DJV - ARJ-85 - 03/10/1996
OO-DJW - ARJ-85 - 15/10/1996
OO-DJX - ARJ-85 - 09/11/1996
OO-DJY - ARJ-85 - 29/01/1997
OO-DJZ - ARJ-85 - 04/04/1997
OO-DWA - ARJ-100 - 13/06/1997
OO-DWB - ARJ-100 - 06/10/1997
OO-DWC - ARJ-100 - 14/02/1998
OO-DWD - ARJ-100 - 25/03/1998
OO-DWE - ARJ-100 - 19/05/1998
OO-DWF - ARJ-100 - 05/08/1998
OO-DWG - ARJ-100 - 08/10/1998
OO-DWH - ARJ-100 - 08/12/1998
OO-DWI - ARJ-100 - 15/01/1999
OO-DWJ - ARJ-100 - 22/07/1999
OO-DWK - ARJ-100 - 07/10/1999
OO-DWL - ARJ-100 - 22/10/1999
OO-MJE - BAe 146-200 - 10/03/1991

So, the average age of the fleet is 9 years and 7 months, the oldest being 15 years and 7 months old, the newest 6 years and 1 month old.

If you only take the Avro fleet into account (that is, without the BAe-146s), the average age of the fleet is 8 years and 5 months.

Regards
BrusselsSouth
 
SNBA
Topic Author
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Thu Nov 24, 2005 11:52 pm

Thank you very much for the information!
Do you have these datas concerning the A319s & A330s?
 
BrusselsSouth
Posts: 568
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:34 am

Quoting SNBA (Reply 32):
Do you have these datas concerning the A319s & A330s?

Registr. - Type - First flight date (dd/mm/yyyy)
OO-SSG - A319-112 - 11/01/2000
OO-SSK - A319-112 - 04/10/2000
OO-SSM - A319-112 - 20/11/2000
OO-SFM - A330-301 - 22/06/1993
OO-SFN - A330-301 - 20/10/1993
OO-SFO - A330-301 - 31/01/1994

Regards
BrusselsSouth
 
swissairtaz
Posts: 111
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:54 am

There will be a cabin refurbishment on the A330 Fleet in 2006.
md11 forever
 
SNBA
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:33 am

Quoting BrusselsSouth (Reply 33):
Registr. - Type - First flight date (dd/mm/yyyy)
OO-SSG - A319-112 - 11/01/2000
OO-SSK - A319-112 - 04/10/2000
OO-SSM - A319-112 - 20/11/2000
OO-SFM - A330-301 - 22/06/1993
OO-SFN - A330-301 - 20/10/1993
OO-SFO - A330-301 - 31/01/1994

Many thanxxx again for this precious information...
 
BBJII
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:51 am

Back to the topic at hand....

Any chance of ANR seeing operations of some kind?

 wave 
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
SNBA
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:56 pm

Quoting BBJII (Reply 36):
Back to the topic at hand....

Any chance of ANR seeing operations of some kind?

Very interesting point! Sabena used to operate flights between Antwerp and London in the past...
So what is SN Brussels Airlines statement about eventual Antwerp operations (same question about Liege or other regional belgian airports)?
 
nijltje
Posts: 231
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:26 pm

RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:02 pm

Not a chance, they have no ops in Antwerp and VLM is providing an excellent service to LCY.
 
SNBA
Topic Author
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:32 pm

Quoting Nijltje (Reply 38):

... and what about Liège?!
 
klmcedric
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:50 pm

Wow, this is reply 40 on SNBA thread!!!
I remember a couple of years ago when someone started a SN thread, it
got very little replies, and almost exclusively by belgian members.
It's good to see that little by little SN is gaining influence in Europe, and
that the brandname is getting more and more renowed.
I do however believe they will need to focus on some more longhaul
in the future, as a lot of other euro nonLCC carriers are doing now.
(read press release AF-KL yesterday). I realise they're a niche carrier
but it's going to be more and more difficult making profit based almost
solely on a european network, in the midst of a dominating mushrooming
LCC environment!
About this subject, does anyone has an idea of where SN makes the most
money, on it's european or african network?
 
SNBA
Topic Author
Posts: 201
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:08 pm

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 40):
Wow, this is reply 40 on SNBA thread!!!
I remember a couple of years ago when someone started a SN thread, it
got very little replies, and almost exclusively by belgian members.
It's good to see that little by little SN is gaining influence in Europe, and
that the brandname is getting more and more renowed.
I do however believe they will need to focus on some more longhaul
in the future, as a lot of other euro nonLCC carriers are doing now.
(read press release AF-KL yesterday). I realise they're a niche carrier
but it's going to be more and more difficult making profit based almost
solely on a european network, in the midst of a dominating mushrooming
LCC environment!
About this subject, does anyone has an idea of where SN makes the most
money, on it's european or african network?

I agree... It is so good to see that SN Brussels Airlines is gaining some influence!
In my opinion, SN makes most of its money on its afrcan network...
 
SNBA
Topic Author
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:50 am

So... finally :
- One more A330 to enter the fleet in 2006
- All the legendary SN Avros will stay there
- Further developments expected on both european & african destinations
- Waiting for a big surprise regarding Asia (Hainan?) or the US (own operations to a few cities?)

GO SN Brussels Airlines (I definitely LOVE them!)!!!
 
pat
Posts: 110
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:50 am

FYI.

SNBA will most likely never operate to LLW, HAR, DAR, etc, ... for a very simple reason :

1/ all SNBA flights to Africa are bi - destinations (except may be Dakar), as such they have to find two stations to combine in the same area; which makes sense seen the narrow Belgian market (even to Africa) compared to AF (e.g).

2/ LLW, HAR, etc are too low on the African continent to get back the aircraft within the due time to give (good) competitive connections on the european sector.

3/ DAR would be good but seen point 1 a flight BRU NBO DAR vv would be in all cases too long for the pax to DAR and a triangular BRU NBO DAR BRU would lead to come back to point n° 2

Rgds,

Patrice
 
ANITIX87
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:17 am

It's all well and good that we're speculating about future routes. Does anyone have a comprehensive list of where they fly now? And the frequencies and aircraft they use? Thanks a million.

TIS
www.stellaryear.com: Canon EOS 50D, Canon EOS 5DMkII, Sigma 50mm 1.4, Canon 24-70 2.8L II, Canon 100mm 2.8L, Canon 100-4
 
klmcedric
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:59 am

Europe
Aarhus, Barcelona, Basel, Berlin, Bilbao, Billund, Birmingham, Budapest, Bucharest, Bologna, Bristol, Brussels, Firenze, Geneva, Glasgow, Gothenburg, Hamburg, Helsinki, Ýstanbul, Kiev, Copenhagen, Larnaca, Lisbon, London (Gatwick), London (Heathrow), Lyon, Madrid, Malta, Manchester, Marseille, Milan, Moscow, Munich, Naples, Newcastle, Oslo, Paris (de Gaulle), Porto, Prague, Rome, Seville, Sofia, Split, Saint Petersburg, Stockholm, Strasbourg, Toulouse, Turin, Venice, Vilnius, Warsaw, Vienna, Zagreb, Zürich

Africa
Abidjan, Banjul, Casablanca, Conakry, Dakar, Douala, Entebbe, Freetown, Kigali, Kinshasa (N'Djili), Luanda, Monrovia, Nairobi, Yaoundé

Middle East
Tel Aviv

Equipment is easy: All european flights either with BAe 146/AvroRJ or A-319
All african flights with A333

So even if they wanted to start PVG they first would have to get A332 cos the A333 doesn't have the range IIRC.
 
BBJII
Posts: 831
Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:22 pm

RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 45):
London (Gatwick), London (Heathrow),

I thought these were codeshares ON BA metal?

 wave 
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
sabenapilot
Posts: 2442
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:36 am

LGW is ALWAYS operated by SN, often with A319.

LHR is operated by BA, except the Saturday evening flight (return on Sunday morning), which is operated on RJ100.
 
sk601
Posts: 896
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:44 am

Quoting KLMCedric (Reply 45):
Europe

Any change that SN will start service to AMS? Former SN "Sabena" always had good deals via BRU to several destinations.
 
airevents
Posts: 755
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RE: SN Brussels Airlines - 2006!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:00 pm

From a personal point of view, I would very much hope that the Dusseldorf / Cologne area be linked to Brussels again. I think many people from around here do not like the idea of taking the train or car all the way to Brussels to catch a flight from there. Much potential gets lost. Before the end of Sabena, there used to be multiple daily flights from DUS to BRU, using anything from Dash8 to ATR72 and sometimes B737 even. Cannot have been that bad then.
www.airevents.com

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