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Buyantukhaa
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Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:17 pm

http://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/1132466607979.html (in Dutch only)

The article reports that a DHC-8 with reg N505LL that was parked at AMS for two days. It is suspected to be a "Guantanamo Express" plane that came from IST and went on to Reykjavik (presumably KEF, I suppose). The article says it is property of Path Corporation, apparently a cover for the CIA. It was seen several times in Kabul, according to http://spyflight.co.uk

The Dutch foreign ministry is investigating the flight.

Did any a.netter see this plane recently, and where?
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noelg
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:22 pm

Only photo in the database is this one:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Terry Nash - Cactus Wings



According to this list it is one of them:



Please don't turn this into another CIA debate!
 
Glareskin
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:42 pm

Quoting Noelg (Reply 1):
Please don't turn this into another CIA debate!

The newspaper did! It seems that different European countries asked questions to the US govt. about this subject.

And the picture is indeed the plane that was in the Volkskrant this morning.
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
noelg
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:49 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Reply 2):
It seems that different European countries asked questions to the US govt. about this subject.

I'm not going to start ranting on about the Spanish CIA flights, I'll point you to this thread all about that...
List Of CIA Planes - List NY Times Mentioned (by GDoole01 Nov 14 2005 in Non Aviation)

There are many aircraft allegedly flying for the CIA that it's claimed are transporting terror suspects.

I don't particularly see a DHC-8 flying AMS-Guantanemo Bay though - slightly out of it's range!  biggrin 

Noel.
 
clipperhawaii
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:49 pm

What? Are certain EU governments going to ban flights by these registered aircraft?

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter):
The Dutch foreign ministry is investigating the flight.

What? Was a bag lost?  Smile
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JRadier
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:24 pm

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 4):
What? Was a bag lost? Smile

knowing the dutch government (and their support of NIMBY's) one of the 'terrorists' screamed so loud it broke sound regulations  Wink
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
aogdesk
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:48 pm

A.net wasn't mentioned directly, but just heard on NPR that airplane/airport enthusiasts are the original source of CIA detainee transport information.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting Noelg (Reply 1):
According to this list it is one of them:

Good work. Thanks!

Quoting Clipperhawaii (Reply 4):
What? Was a bag lost?

Dunno, but I'm a bit puzzled they stayed in AMS for two days - I'd imagine they didn't have any "pax" on board then.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:14 am

Now also in the respectable NRC: http://www.nrc.nl/binnenland/artikel/1132552911132.html

The Dutch foreign ministry claims that "these companies do not have landing rights in the Netherlands".
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BigOrange
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:22 am

If it's a "Guantanamo Express" it's not exactly a spy plane!
 
jwenting
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Tue Nov 22, 2005 5:48 am

Interesting list, and just as reliable as every other conspiracy theory.

Personally I couldn't care less if they dumped some terrorists over the sea, it's humane compared to what those terrorists would do to use given the chance after all.

The entire row is just another attempt at a smear campaign against the USA though. "Secret CIA torture prisons" have been reported without any evidence except anonymous "accounts from ex-CIA operatives" (whose authenticity cannot be proven and even if it could there stories can't) for decades, the most outrageous place them as far back as the 1930s when the CIA didn't even exist.
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md80fanatic
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:01 pm

Jwenting, your application for US citizenship has been *APPROVED*.  yes 
 
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:23 pm

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 9):
If it's a "Guantanamo Express" it's not exactly a spy plane!

Fair enough! I quoted the newspaper. But yes, if it is allegedly carrying terrorism suspects, it can hardly be called like that.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
 
airforum
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:25 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 11):
Jwenting, your application for US citizenship has been *APPROVED*.

Finally. All Dutchies were waiting for that to happen...

 wave 
What goes up, must come down. Let's hope the sky never went up.
 
jwenting
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:17 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 11):
Jwenting, your application for US citizenship has been *APPROVED*.

Can you get me that in writing? If possible complete with my greencard  Smile
Can't wait to get away from this hellhole of a socialist workers' paradise.

Quoting Airforum (Reply 13):
Finally. All Dutchies were waiting for that to happen...

Nope, just a few moonbats. Sadly moonbats are not an endangered species here and the firearms prohibition means sensible people can't work towards making them such.

Anyway, who cares whether the company has an "operating license" for the country. They're flying the aircraft on a government contract (supposedly, if the conspiracy theorists are right) and governments don't need those.
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Buyantukhaa
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:18 am

Seems we got a parallel thread:
N505LL (CIA Aircraft) Now At GFK (by TWA902fly Nov 21 2005 in Civil Aviation)
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airforum
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 14):
Quoting Airforum (Reply 13):
Finally. All Dutchies were waiting for that to happen...

Nope, just a few moonbats. Sadly moonbats are not an endangered species here and the firearms prohibition means sensible people can't work towards making them such.

Hmmm it was more or less a reaction on what MD80fanatic said about you application.
What goes up, must come down. Let's hope the sky never went up.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:59 am

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 9):
If it's a "Guantanamo Express" it's not exactly a spy plane!

And I wonder how many stops that DASH8 has to make to get from REK to Gitmo?

Geez but this subject is tired and worn out . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
greasespot
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:26 am

You would think that if they are going to fly half way arround the world that they would use a faster airplane than a DASH 8.....

SHeeesh


GS
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ltbewr
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:45 pm

There are several investigations by Human Rights Watch, EC and non-EC countries of these 'CIA' aircraft and flights over or via EC countries that are believed to be going to the 'hidden' prisons for terrorists in Poland and Romania (at ex-USSR air bases). These are very concerned of their countries being used for refuling or transfers points for what could be people having their rights violated against international and national agreements. This included using airports in the Canary Islands, Shannon, and other locations in EC and non-EC countries in Europe. While not all of these flight may have involved illegal prisoners, (some could contain legal spies, CIA agents, people in legitment intellegance matters important to the USA and the world) sufficient questions have been raised to trigger investigations. Some of those investigations include looking at a records of aircraft movements in the EC.
 
jwenting
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:33 pm

And are any of those by groups that do not have an anti-US agenda and therefore know the outcome before the "investigation"?
No, there aren't. These groups know what they want to report, they just need some time to make up a story that looks believable to the gullible.

If there were hundreds of thousands of people "being disappeared" by the EEEEVIL CIA and put in secret prisons all over the world, pretty much everyone would know at least one person who'd disappeared and would know the location of one or more of those prisons.
I know several people who'd surely be prime targets, and quite a few people on this site would surely no longer be among us for their openly anti-US attitude.
The very fact that they're still there shows that the conspiracy theorists are just that.
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BBJII
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RE: Help On AMS "spy Plane" Flights

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:10 pm

Quoting BigOrange (Reply 9):
If it's a "Guantanamo Express" it's not exactly a spy plane!



Quoting Greasespot (Reply 18):
You would think that if they are going to fly half way arround the world that they would use a faster airplane than a DASH 8.....

Im sure the "passengers" are in no rush..probably better catering than Camp X-ray.

Not really an express is it....

 wave 

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 10):
Personally I couldn't care less if they dumped some terrorists over the sea, it's humane compared to what those terrorists would do to use given the chance after all.

Other than dump the payload over the ocean:

Option 2:

Tech-stop in greenland and leave them there....Polar Bears Fill up this time of year ahead of winter hibernation.

 wave 
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....