rootsair
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Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 10:29 pm

My girlfriend will be going to Madrid for an exchange program. since she still doesn't have a definite return date she tried booking one way on IB website. She booked ZRH- MAD on one leg. The price turned out to be 1,113 Swiss Francs(841 USD,719 Euros)....so she tried GVA even if further from her house ...the same price for GVA-MAD. However, the round trip ticket was only 190(143$, francs for ZRH-MAD-ZRH.....
She thus tried booking with Swiss but the one leg ZRH-MAD flight was 1045(790$,675€) against 202(152$,129€) francs for round trip.


Very intrigued by that I tried to see what the difference was between GVA-JFK one way and round trip....one way costed 535 francs(325$,278€) and one way 535 francs(404$,346€)..... tried many other routes and 90%of times one way was more expensive than round trip..

I would like to know why this is the case.....after isn't it logical that we should pay more for flying more...why then is it more expensive to fly one way than round trip ?


Regards

BM
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
richardw
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:30 pm

Because they assume you are a business traveller and can afford it.
Find the cheapest return ticket and only use the outward part of it, or fly easyJet via LON.
 
Aisak
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:33 pm

It's because of fare rules

Most of legacies charges full fare (Y) for one way flights only allowing discount fares on return trips (dependind of several factors: saturday night, minimum stay, maximun stay, advance purchase....)

My advice for her is to book the cheapest return fare and if the return date is not good for her, she may simply not show up...

Also, even on deeply discounted fares, IB allows change of dates, she may want to look into it
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:36 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
I would like to know why this is the case.....after isn't it logical that we should pay more for flying more...why then is it more expensive to fly one way than round trip ?

I can't answer that though it is common practise on many carriers.
I can only assume it is to do with Yield Control and Revenue Management.

Quoting Richardw (Reply 1):
Because they assume you are a business traveller and can afford it.

Twaddle.

Quoting Richardw (Reply 1):
Find the cheapest return ticket and only use the outward part of it, or fly easyJet via LON.

Which is strictly against the T&C's of your ticket. Known as throwaway ticketing, airlines will cancel both sectors of your trip if they even so much as get a hint that this is your intention.

I did a goodle search on this. Here is th general consensus regarding this loophole in fare construction.

Quote:
Back-to-back ticketing—combining multiple overlapping round-trip tickets to circumvent Saturday or other overnight stay requirements
Throw-away ticketing—use of discounted round-trip excursion fares for one-way travel is also prohibited. Failure to comply with applicable fare restrictions, circumventing those restrictions, or misrepresenting your intended itinerary are all breaches of your Contract of Carriage.

7LBAC111



[Edited 2005-11-22 15:45:19]
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iowa744fan
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:41 pm

It is one of the means that airlines try to determine whether a traveler is flying for business or leisure. If they are flying for leisure, they will likely have certain dates that they want (and will thus book well in advance) and will want to pay the cheapest amount that they can. However, most people flying on business don't have definite dates until the last minute and airlines realize that they need to get to where they are going, hence their companies will be more willing to pay the higher fares. This is one of the main reasons why one - way tickets cost more on many carriers (but not necessarily all of them) than roundtrip tickets. This is also why you have things like 7, 14, and 21 day advanced purchase requirements (sometimes 3 too) and Saturday night stays. Many business travellers find out that they are flying at the last minute, hence the advance purchase requirements help to sort out business travellers. Also, many business people would prefer to return home at the end of the week (Thurs. or Fri.) to be with their families instead of staying through the weekend. Thus, the Saturday night stay requirement as it is another means of identifying business travellers.

Hope that this helps! You may want to look into some of the LCCs. They sometimes have lower one-way tickets. However, I am not too familiar with the smaller airports in all of Europe that they fly into, so I cannot really tell you which ones to fly and from what airport. Take care.
 
aireuropeuk733
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:43 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Thread starter):
I would like to know why this is the case.....after isn't it logical that we should pay more for flying more...why then is it more expensive to fly one way than round trip ?

Because they can? Why should a single room in a hotel be as expensive (if not more) than a double? The hotel will talk about occupancy square footage, marginal returns etc but they charge it because they can!

AE733
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7LBAC111
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:52 pm

Quoting AirEuropeUK733 (Reply 5):
The hotel will talk about occupancy square footage, marginal returns etc but they charge it because they can!

Exactly. While logically what Roots is saying makes sense, that would mean fares being calculated on distance or other irrelevant factors.

MAN-LON for example, 251 miles can be the same prices as MAN-ORD on the same carrier (BD). Fare are price sesnitive and lower restricted fares aimed at stimulating a market, getting bums on seats. The airlines make no money on these.

However on OneWays, as IOWA744Fan explains quite well, the carrier is required to protect its yield. If you 'have' to travel out and don't know when you will return, you will likely have to pay a premium fare.

However, many carriers find policing such T&C viiolations to be either so time consuming or too difficult, that they abolished such restrictions on lower fares. Prime example of this being BD. Sector pricing has worked well for them, and is something other Star carriers are beginning to implement. BA are cagey on this, and have only moved to sector pricing on a small number of selected routes.

IB is totally dominant in it's market. They are able to keep fares artificially high, and have no need to protect their market with this type of pricing.

7LBAC111
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StarGoldLHR
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:06 am

The old schools of airline industry pricing models depend on it.


If you sell half price one ways, then when the plane becomes full, you might buy a return on another airline instead.

where as if everyone sells returns and one flight is full your going to chose another flight with the same airline at a different time.

To discourage one ways, selling them expensive for more means you wont do this and protects revenue.

This model is slowly being broken by the new low cost carriers who base there model on a break even per flight each way, where the first tickets sold are subsidized over time by the last few seats to be sold, and approx half the plane is breakeven / average priced.

Try "Air Berlin" or "Helvetic airlines" for better deals. Also sometimes Spanair (though I dont know if they do Switzerland).
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
ORDagent
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:16 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Back-to-back ticketing—combining multiple overlapping round-trip tickets to circumvent Saturday or other overnight stay requirements
Throw-away ticketing—use of discounted round-trip excursion fares for one-way travel is also prohibited. Failure to comply with applicable fare restrictions, circumventing those restrictions, or misrepresenting your intended itinerary are all breaches of your Contract of Carriage.

Most travel agencies will NOT do this for you as if the airline recognizes the booking pattern for back to back ticketing they may issue a debit memo for two one way tickets. Best bet for back to back ticketing is to use two different carriers booked in different distribution channels. I.E. Expedia on one and Orbitz for the other. I have had clients denied boarding by the airline when the agent sees the back to back ticketing. The airlines yield management software has become extremely efficient in finding this kind of "illegal" ticketing.
 
Ansett767
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:29 am

I had the same issues with Swiss and LH recently so ended up buying a return and tearing up the other half – SOOO much cheaper. BA now has one way fares that are the same as ½ the return which is great, I think because they are now competing with the likes of Easyjet, Ryanair, BMI baby etc….
 
richardw
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Quoting Richardw (Reply 1):
Because they assume you are a business traveller and can afford it.

Twaddle.

What is Twaddle?
 
stuckinMAF
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:51 am

Maybe it's like buying a six-pack of beer instead of a single one (but why anyone would buy a single beer, I'll never know).  drunk  You're buying in "bulk". Many things are cheaper when purchased in bulk.
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Sigmund Freud
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting Richardw (Reply 10):
What is Twaddle?

Basically, its Bullsh*t  Wink
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
320tech
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:54 am

What is Twaddle?

From Google:

Definitions of twaddle on the Web:

* baloney: pretentious or silly talk or writing

Partly it's to do with economies of scale. Why is one litre bottle of pop more than half as expensive than a two litre bottle? Because your fixed costs don't change.

Every airline wants to encourage you to return with them. If you buy a return ticket, they will give you a bit of a discount so that you do. If you only buy a one-way ticket, that tells them that you may return with someone else. They want to discourage that sort of thing.

You should be able to buy a return ticket for less, and then change the return date once you know it. There will be a charge for changing, but it would still be better than buying two one-ways.
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:56 am

One way fares tend to not be as restrictive, that's why. They seldom require an advance purchase, are usually fully refundable, and usually don't carry any fees for changes.

Discounted roundtrip fares, on the other hand, are discounted BECAUSE they carry large restrictions like nonrefundability, change fees, 7, 14, or 21 day advance purchase requirements, etc.

One ways are more expensive because you're paying for flexibility.
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7LBAC111
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:05 am

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 8):
Most travel agencies will NOT do this for you as if the airline recognizes the booking pattern for back to back ticketing they may issue a debit memo for two one way tickets

Exactly - which is why I advise against doing this under any circumstances.
Perhaps you misunderstood me?

7LBAC111
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rootsair
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:06 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 14):
One way fares tend to not be as restrictive, that's why. They seldom require an advance purchase, are usually fully refundable, and usually don't carry any fees for changes.

But does it justify such a high difference such as the IB GVA-MAD and ZRH-MAD ???
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
richardw
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:27 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 15):
Perhaps you misunderstood me?

Twaddle
 
bond007
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting Stargoldlhr (Reply 7):
The old schools of airline industry pricing models depend on it.

That's the correct answer!

Quoting 320tech (Reply 13):
Partly it's to do with economies of scale. Why is one litre bottle of pop more than half as expensive than a two litre bottle? Because your fixed costs don't change.



Quoting StuckinMAF (Reply 11):
Maybe it's like buying a six-pack of beer instead of a single one (but why anyone would buy a single beer, I'll never know). You're buying in "bulk". Many things are cheaper when purchased in bulk.

Not a good analogy. A comparable example would be a one litre bottle of pop, being MORE than a two litre bottle.

In my opinion, always buy the return if it's cheaper and don't show on the return leg. No airline is ever going to prove you didn't intend to use the return flight, whether it's against terms and conditions or not.

Antiquated pricing models are one of the reasons airlines are going bankrupt.


Jimbo
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airforum
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 3:22 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 18):
Antiquated pricing models are one of the reasons airlines are going bankrupt.

Ahhh, you must have read my mind. Very well said! Big grin

The old schools models are slowly replaced by much more modern models. An one-way ticket is just 1/2 of a returnticket. And thanks to the LCC's, legacy airlines are forced to give up the old schools way of doing business.

I've advised ppl I know so many times to buy two returntickets, and use the the first leg and the second leg of both tickets to travel to and from their destination, for instance for a Tuesday to Wednesday stay. By doing so, you're much more flexible in getting the right price for the dates of travel you prefer.

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 15):
Quoting ORDagent (Reply 8):
Most travel agencies will NOT do this for you as if the airline recognizes the booking pattern for back to back ticketing they may issue a debit memo for two one way tickets

Exactly - which is why I advise against doing this under any circumstances.
Perhaps you misunderstood me?

Talking about 'twaddle'! If these carriers are not willing to change their business models, I'm pleased to let them think about it again. I could also buy two returntickets and use both legs on both tickets. But in that case they would spend more on fuel. Using just a part of your ticket would only hurt them when they have 100 percent load factors, which would mean they could have sold two more seats.

Most legacy airlines roar with laughter when another innocent traveler buys an one-way ticket. They wish they would sell one-ways only! And T & C's or not, I don't want to be part of that foolish system. I refuse to pay sky high prices when there's a smart way to avoid it.

 biting 
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firiko
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:40 am

I think immigiration rules must play a big part in the way airlines can sell tickets. Most countries want to see their visitors leave at some stage so there may be strict regulations against one way ticketing.
 
airforum
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:48 am

Quoting Firiko (Reply 20):
I think immigiration rules must play a big part in the way airlines can sell tickets. Most countries want to see their visitors leave at some stage so there may be strict regulations against one way ticketing.

I don't think so. It's not that you can buy off these immigration rules by paying more for your ticket. Besides that, it also happens on intra-european flights like AMS-CDG or AMS-FRA. Immigration rules are not a big item on routes like these.
What goes up, must come down. Let's hope the sky never went up.
 
aircanl1011
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:33 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Quoting Richardw (Reply 1):
Find the cheapest return ticket and only use the outward part of it, or fly easyJet via LON.

Which is strictly against the T&C's of your ticket. Known as throwaway ticketing, airlines will cancel both sectors of your trip if they even so much as get a hint that this is your intention.

How would an Airline know that you plan on not coming back? Its not like they investigate or even ask what your travel plans are. They have no way of knowing that you are not returning until you fail to show up. By then who cares if they cancel the ticket. They are not going to come looking for you like the Mob!

   OOOOOH I have to hide because the IB return flight police are after me


                    

[Edited 2005-11-22 22:34:17]
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irelayer
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:33 am

Well I think it is pretty simple...(and a lot less complicated than a lot of responses I see...e.g. "pricing models", "because they can", "fare rules", although these are also equally valid...).

It is just common sense and it is quite obvious when you think about it a little...a O/W fare is more expensive because the airlines are basically agreeing to transport you to your destination without the guarantee that you will return to where you came from or that someone else wants a O/W ticket in the opposite direction. This uncertainty creates an extra responsibility for the airline b/c they have to fill that surplus seat that in the normal case of a R/T ticket would be generating revenue but in this case is not. To make up for this, they charge a premium for the service to make up for being shortchanged on the return segment...

Take a simple example (the absurdity is used to illustrate the point):

If you owned a taxi cab, and were asked to transport someone from New York City to Miami (roughly 1,300 miles one way, 2,600 R/T, a 3-day drive there and back, realistically) would you want to do it considering that there is most likely noone in Miami that wants to go to NYC by cab at or around the particular time you arrive in Miami and drop off your passenger, thus robbing you of the ability to be paid for driving the cab BACK to NYC. Taking into account that taking a cab on such a long trip is enormously expensive and a request such as this is odd and rare enough to guarantee that it would almost always be a one-way trip, you have to look at it from the perspective of "opportunity cost". The cabbie is not only giving up the fare of the return trip (Miami to NYC), but 3-days worth of "normal" cab fare that he would have made otherwise, any additional cost of fuel, lodging, and food resulting from being away from home, the potential for getting lost or off-track, various dangers of travelling long distances, etc etc...take that absurd example and think of a seat on an airplane instead and it is pretty easy to understand.

I know when I first thought about it I said "well, it should be cheaper for them to only do half the work so the fare should be half as much" but I quickly realized the flaw in my thinking...

-IR

[Edited 2005-11-22 23:36:52]
 
FlyingTexan
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:37 am

Quoting Bond007 (Reply 18):
Antiquated pricing models are one of the reasons airlines are going bankrupt.

 checkmark 

Quoting Airforum (Reply 19):
Ahhh, you must have read my mind. Very well said!

The old schools models are slowly replaced by much more modern models. An one-way ticket is just 1/2 of a returnticket. And thanks to the LCC's, legacy airlines are forced to give up the old schools way of doing business.

 checkmark  to the power of 2.

Quoting Airforum (Reply 19):
I've advised ppl I know so many times to buy two returntickets

Legacy carriers such as AA, NW, and DL go to great lengths and spend copious money (that they do not have) trying to track what they call fraud;



  • back-to-back ticketing - round trip tickets to get around minimum stay requirements like *requires a Saturday Night stay*

  • hidden city ticketing - example SMF-AUS is cheaper then SMF-DFW but I need to go to DFW* so I don’t check any luggage and get off there while *connecting*

  • throw-away ticketing - buying a cheap round trip but I really only need a one-way


They even flag your disAAdvantage, WorldPerks, or SkyMiles account. Then you are screwed.

* Actual case scenario because you cannot get SMF-DAL without doing the Texas Two Step because of some antiquated, anti-competitive piece of legislation that sucks up much a.net oxygen.
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7LBAC111
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:44 am

Quoting AIRCANL1011 (Reply 22):
They have no way of knowing that you are not returning until you fail to show up. By then who cares if they cancel the ticket. They are not going to come looking for you like the Mob!

OOOOOH I have to hide because the IB return flight police are after me

Such a mature response.

Correct, they may not have 'the mob' after you, but you are purchasing this ticket on the basis of it being a return. Therefore, for whatever reason, the airline finds out you have no intention of returning, the carrier reserves the right to cancel your flight.

I'm not saying they are likely to notice if you are a one off traveller, but for businessman travelling regularly, the carrier can track your routing histories and easily ascertain policy/T&C violations. Do you honestly think that once you travel the airline simply forget you ever existed?

7LBAC111
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bond007
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:46 am

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 23):
...take that absurd example and think of a seat on an airplane instead and it is pretty easy to understand.

Well, personally I don't think it's a good analogy (again, sorry!)  Smile

If the load factors are similar for both the outbound flight, and the return flight (as they often are), then there is just as much chance that somebody else wants the empty seat on the return leg .... or, as nobody has mentioned, somebody wanting a return flight, but using your empty return seat as their outbound one.

Since we are only talking about return flights here .... your taxi example would have to include a number of taxis in MIA taking fares to NYC anyway. You bet he'd take the fare, because it's highly likely he'll pick up somebody wanting to go MIA - NYC when he gets there!

It would be common sense, only if most of the pax only ever wanted to go A - B, and never B - A .... but since they do (otherwise there'd be no discussion), they'd always be the pax wanting the empty return seat. The problem is that the airlines don't realize that for everyone that ONLY wants to go A - B, there is just as likely somebody else that ONLY wants to go B - A (on average anyway).


Jimbo
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7LBAC111
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:54 am

Quoting FlyingTexan (Reply 24):

And I think that about sums it up.

Thanks for your response FlyingTexan. I knew I was on the right wavelength just couldn't find the way to articulate it effectively.


7LBAC111
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airforum
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:33 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 25):
I'm not saying they are likely to notice if you are a one off traveler, but for businessman traveling regularly, the carrier can track your routing histories and easily ascertain policy/T&C violations. Do you honestly think that once you travel the airline simply forget you ever existed?

Many pax are business travelers indeed. But many travel occasionally. It's hard to blame them for not showing up. As for the businessman, they won't sue him, not even if he would excuse by saying that he missed ten returnflights in one year because of a flat tire. Let them prove him wrong. Tough job.
What goes up, must come down. Let's hope the sky never went up.
 
grimey
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:36 am

I started a similar topic back in August

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/2285020

I was looking for a DUB-PEK and return HKG-DUB, e-bookers will do it for me if I click on more options or I can get it done if I contact the airline over the phone. Rootsair try seeing what an EI GVA/ZRH to DUB and then book a seperate ticket onto MAD, EI do one way flights at one way prices.

Grimey
 
Areopagus
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:49 am

That taxi cab example doesn't hold water. At worst, the cabbie should charge round-trip pricing for the 1-way trip; if he then gets a paying customer for the return, he's making pure profit, besides which he would be charging that poor customer double. But the complaint in the thread starter was that 1-way fare was almost 6 times the round trip fare. That is unconscionable.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:52 am

Quoting Airforum (Reply 28):
As for the businessman, they won't sue him, not even if he would excuse by saying that he missed ten returnflights in one year because of a flat tire. Let them prove him wrong. Tough job

Air Forum you seem to misunderstand what I am saying. I used an example to demonstrate that policy violations CAN BE TRACED, and FlyingTexan has verified this. I can assure you that airlines can and do penalise persons who violate these rules repeatedly. IATA also penalise agents who continue to advise and/or sell tickets in contradiction of ticket rules. An airline doesn't need to prove this. They can refuse to carry any passenger for any reason.

Who mentioned suing anyone!?  Smile

Quoting Grimey (Reply 29):
Rootsair try seeing what an EI GVA/ZRH to DUB and then book a seperate ticket onto MAD, EI do one way flights at one way prices.

Exactly. Or try any airline which offers sector pricing. IB do not. If you are price sensitive then perhaps an indirect routing would be the most suitable option.

Finally, you have the following LCC options available:

* easyJet
* Air Berlin (NIKI)
* Helvetic

Helvetic fares start at EUR19.00.

7LBAC111
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:01 am

Quoting Airforum (Reply 19):
Most legacy airlines roar with laughter when another innocent traveler buys an one-way ticket.

For what it's worth, the majority of U.S. based carriers are changing their pricing structure to allow reasonable one-way fares, a-la LCCs like WN and B6.


So no, there's no "roaring with laughter," contrary to your opinion.  sarcastic 
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
MAS777
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:05 am

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 25):
Do you honestly think that once you travel the airline simply forget you ever existed?

I see your point but this did make me smile as virtually all airlines I have flown to date can't wait to 'forget' their passengers - think of this next time the crew 'welcome' you to your destination and 'wish' you a (genuinely) pleasant stay...  Smile
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:07 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 32):
For what it's worth, the majority of U.S. based carriers are changing their pricing structure to allow reasonable one-way fares, a-la LCCs like WN and B6.

And in Europe

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 6):
However, many carriers find policing such T&C viiolations to be either so time consuming or too difficult, that they abolished such restrictions on lower fares. Prime example of this being BD. Sector pricing has worked well for them, and is something other Star carriers are beginning to implement. BA are cagey on this, and have only moved to sector pricing on a small number of selected routes

7LBAC111
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whitehatter
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:10 am

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 23):
It is just common sense and it is quite obvious when you think about it a little...a O/W fare is more expensive because the airlines are basically agreeing to transport you to your destination without the guarantee that you will return to where you came from or that someone else wants a O/W ticket in the opposite direction. This uncertainty creates an extra responsibility for the airline b/c they have to fill that surplus seat that in the normal case of a R/T ticket would be generating revenue but in this case is not. To make up for this, they charge a premium for the service to make up for being shortchanged on the return segment...

That's exactly it.

The thinking behind this dates back to pre-alliance and limited route network days. The airline costs a single on the basis of flying you from a base to destination, and then an empty seat back to the base (or the other way round).

It's basically a hangover from the days when airlines were much smaller and flew to less destinations without partners at the other end, such as travel agents or airlines selling tickets at the outstation. The carrier assumes you are not going to buy a ticket back and charges you for that empty seat they can't otherwise fill.
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PipoA380
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:10 am

Quoting Richardw (Reply 1):
or fly easyJet via LON.

Why not try the GVA-MAD on easyjet? I bet you'll get cheap fares.

For instance, on mondays: Montant total dû : 1 adulte: CHF 79.95  Wink Cheaper than the 1'100CHF isn't it?

With that price she can also book a 1st class train ticket to GVA and still pay way less!

Take care Braulio

Philippe
It's not about AIRBUS. it's not about BOEING. It's all about the beauty of FLYING.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:20 am

Quoting Airforum (Reply 19):
Most legacy airlines roar with laughter when another innocent traveler buys an one-way ticket. They wish they would sell one-ways only! And T & C's or not, I don't want to be part of that foolish system. I refuse to pay sky high prices when there's a smart way to avoid it.

The legacies are much worse in this regard. I used to fly PDX-TRI on a semi-regular basis, on Northwest a round trip ticket (bought at least a month in advance) was usually around 450 dollars or so, while a one-way, strangely enough also priced an entire month in advance was roughly 1500 dollars.

The cheapest flight I found (and this is niiiice) buying a month in advance for a round trip flight I NEEDED to take into TRI was UA PDX-ORD-RDU interline to DL RDU-ATL-TRI.

LCCs are much easier to deal with. HP prices one-way tickets logically...as half a round trip, or close enough. WN bases their whole online ticketing system on a series of one-way segments.

I suppose there are enough standby and nonrev travelers to not have to worry about TOTALLY empty seats in this case.
 
7LBAC111
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:23 am

Quoting MAS777 (Reply 33):
Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 25):
Do you honestly think that once you travel the airline simply forget you ever existed?

I see your point but this did make me smile as virtually all airlines I have flown to date can't wait to 'forget' their passengers - think of this next time the crew 'welcome' you to your destination and 'wish' you a (genuinely) pleasant stay...

Yeah fair enough.  Smile

Of course what I meant was that the airline's internal database will not 'forget' you. Even if you don't fly for months/years, the system will record and match your data time and again. They can then build a profile on you and then are able to target mail you with promo's they believe are suited to you. Logic therefore suggests that this same 'profile' can record data which could be construed as negative - in this case ticketing violations.

7LBAC111
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aswissinmad
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:45 am

As a ticket agent, selling RT tickets for OW use is something I do daily, and my colleagues as well. It's sometimes the only way not to have the pax going to EZY directly. Really, it is common practice amongst ticket agents, at least in Europe.

However, quite often, some (stupid) pax buy RT tickets on the internet, and plan on only using the return portion ... which fails everytime as they made a noshow on the inbound, and the outbound is then automatically cancelled, and the E-Tkt is voided in the system ... and they end up buying a EUR800 full fare ticket for a one hour flight (and I can't sell them a cheap RT ticket since I've just explained them that buying a RT ticket for OW use is illegal thus why we voided his ticket....)...

I believe all airlines would benefit from a more honest, clearer pricing. And pax would stop bitching about "that flight to LHR that cost more than a return ticket to HKG".
 
irelayer
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting Areopagus (Reply 30):
That taxi cab example doesn't hold water. At worst, the cabbie should charge round-trip pricing for the 1-way trip; if he then gets a paying customer for the return, he's making pure profit, besides which he would be charging that poor customer double. But the complaint in the thread starter was that 1-way fare was almost 6 times the round trip fare. That is unconscionable.

I'm not saying it holds water, just that it represents the traditional thinking of the airlines...E.G. to transport one person to their destination and back vs. to transport one person to their destination and then have an empty seat and nothing to show for it. The cabbie WOULD charge a premium (as the airlines do) b/c otherwise it wouldn't be worth it. I'm not saying it is the right way of thinking about it, I'm saying if you think about it this way, legacy O/W pricing makes sense. Strip away all of the other elements and look at it in the abstract sense and that is what I am talking about. Put another away, the airline's thinking is that they want to base their pricing on R/T travel instead of O/W travel. A lot of LCC"s think differently and each model has its own distinct advantages and disadvantages. 6 times the R/T is a bit extreme though, and I think all would agree...

-IR
 
levent
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:00 am

Low cost airlines started the joy of one-way ticketing, and luckily mainline carriers are following suit. They see that they´ll lose more pax otherwise.

Middle-Eastern carriers offer good one way fares. For example, I just purchased two round trips IST-BKK with Emirates for 625 euros each. I could have bought a one-way on EK for 350 euros and a one-way back with Qatar Airways for 400 euros. So the difference is not that much.
 
citationjet
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:15 am

Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,737,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773.
 
schipholjfk
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 23):
lodging, and food resulting from being away from home, the potential for getting lost or off-track, various dangers of travelling long distances, etc etc...take that absurd example and think of a seat on an airplane instead and it is pretty easy to understand.

This is the DUMBEST example! Comparing a taxi cab to a plane is like comparing an apple to an orange.

Simple answer = ticketing racket! You can be on a flight from JFK to AMS and sit next to a person (economy class, same row just a seat apart) and the chances are you have paid an entirely different fare than your neighbor. No other industry can get away with this kind of tiered pricing except for airline business. But not to worry... for survival's sake especially for US airlines the rules will change... has to change! Customers are way to savvy these days to hoodwink them into paying outrageous fares. One example... more and more airlines are dropping their dumb Saturday night stay over rule. Still a long way to go...

In simple language it is called scamming the customers! The rise of the LCCs in some part have been due to fare simplification. Fare rules that customers understand.
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
Molykote
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 2:44 pm

For all the humor directed at airline pricing policies, the fare rules actually create an excellent corralation between supply and demand (as a rule).

Why is it that when we really need a ticket that the fares always seem to be higher? Consider the value of a gallon of water in the open desert compared to that in a restaurant.

The airlines own "supply" while each passenger establishes his own "demand". Most fare systems do a pretty good job of balancing the two. Impressive in my opinion is how closely (in general) the fare rules effectively sort the "demand" that each passenger carries with him. Travellers are free to examine the fare rules in advance and establish plans accordingly - However, when I have a six-figure business meeting I don't think that I will be rescheduling in order to save $500 on airfare.

Just as I have outlined the market concepts that led airlines to the somewhat cryptic pricing scheme, I acknowledge that the same market forces may drive airlines to "level" fares in the future.

My leisure plans are helped by the current system when I use foresight. The ticket cost associated with my business needs is for my employer to manage.

This is an interesting topic that I have discussed for hours with family and friends - I will abstain here unless promted by other users.
Speedtape - The aspirin of aviation!
 
irelayer
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:15 pm

Quoting CitationJet (Reply 42):
If airlines sold paint.......

http://www.netjeff.com/humor/item.cgi?file=airlinepaint.txt

.

Dude, thanks A LOT! You just indirectly caused me to spend two hours laughing hysterically at my monitor (that site has a lot of humor :P)

-IR
 
OE-LDA
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:31 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Which is strictly against the T&C's of your ticket. Known as throwaway ticketing, airlines will cancel both sectors of your trip if they even so much as get a hint that this is your intention.

I recently bought a return ticket from Lufthansa's ticket counter at Dusseldorf airport. The agent was fully aware of the fact that I was going to use the outbound flight only. There was no problem. Maybe it helped that the Air Berlin counter was nearby, offering the same route with low one-way fares.

Regards, OE-LDA
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CV747
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:51 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Quoting Richardw (Reply 1):
Find the cheapest return ticket and only use the outward part of it, or fly easyJet via LON.

Which is strictly against the T&C's of your ticket. Known as throwaway ticketing, airlines will cancel both sectors of your trip if they even so much as get a hint that this is your intention.

Some airlines assume their clients are stupid...
In reality, how on earth is the airline going to know why you did not turn up! You can invent 1000 and one exuse why you did not make your flight. Overslept, traffic jam, sick, scared, kids sick, granny in hospital, dog ran away....and there is nothing the airline can do about it!
At the end, you paid for the darn seat which is now empty and costs the airline less fuel.
This bad practice will die, since the low budjet carriers have introduced the model of "pay separatelly for each leg of your journey". The grand public is no longer willing to support this kind of behaviour.
Icelandair used to sell cheap tickets from Europe to the USA with stop-over in Iceland. But tickets to Iceland were double price. Of course everybody bought a ticket to the states and threw away the part to the USA. The airline stopped this and they got real bad press...which lead to a changed tariff.

It always comes down to the old saying: "Don't like it, don't buy it!"
 
thegooddoctor
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:45 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 3):
Which is strictly against the T&C's of your ticket. Known as throwaway ticketing, airlines will cancel both sectors of your trip if they even so much as get a hint that this is your intention.

I did a goodle search on this. Here is th general consensus regarding this loophole in fare construction.

Quote:
Back-to-back ticketing—combining multiple overlapping round-trip tickets to circumvent Saturday or other overnight stay requirements
Throw-away ticketing—use of discounted round-trip excursion fares for one-way travel is also prohibited. Failure to comply with applicable fare restrictions, circumventing those restrictions, or misrepresenting your intended itinerary are all breaches of your Contract of Carriage.

I don't know if this is applicable to the EU arrangment - maybe someone can enlighten me. I know that when travelling to the states there is some degree of proof necessary to get through customs that you actually intend to return to your country of origin (ie, they don't like foriegn visitors travelling on leisure visa's to arrive on one-way tickets). As far as I know, the airlines absorb the cost if a visitor is denied entry into a foriegn country and this may be a reason that they charge so much for one-way "Y" fares, in a sense creating an economic way to assure that only business travellers will buy one-way tickets (business travellers being less likely to be denied entry).

As for domestic travel within the states, some of the reasons stated through this thread make a lot of sense. With that said, there have been occasions when I have not been able to use the return end of a non-refundable ticket (in all the instances I can think of this was due entirely to changes in my plans, not as a mode of avoiding a higher charge) and nothing bad has ever occured because of it (this includes a couple of occasions when I have had to purchase new tickets on a different day/new destination). I am unsure how an airline would prove that you are trying to circumvent fare rules, so I fail to see how they can do anything about it...

S
The GoodDoctor
 
richardw
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RE: Why Is One Way More Expensive Than Round Trip?

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:07 pm

Quoting PipoA380 (Reply 36):
Why not try the GVA-MAD on easyjet?

Apologies for my ignorance regarding GVA-MAD on U2

Quoting Richardw (Reply 1):
Find the cheapest return ticket and only use the outward part of it

Do not do this if it contravenes the airlines T & C's