Glareskin
Topic Author
Posts: 1002
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:35 pm

Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:07 pm

Did a search and found nothing.

WAM, the press agency of the UAE announced that Dubai is going to invest 8.3 Billion dollar in the Jebel Ali international airport. This will be the largest airport in the world with a capacity of 120 million pax per year.

Seems that EK gets good support from their govt.....

[Edited 2005-11-23 08:08:08]
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
as739x
Posts: 5008
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:16 pm

Largest in what regards: Maybe sq miles, sq feet of terminal.

Its will almost never be the largest in a/c movement or pax.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
D L X
Posts: 11663
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:26 pm

I agree. It's just not close enough to the center of where people want to travel.
 
scotron11
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:29 pm

Quoting AS739X (Reply 1):

Largest in what regards: Maybe sq miles, sq feet of terminal.


Larger that LHR & ORD combined, according to ATW.
 
siromega
Posts: 564
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:57 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:37 pm

120M pax? Thats what, 6 parallel runways?
 
VonRichtofen
Posts: 4262
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2000 3:10 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:45 pm

Just because they build it that big, doesn't mean it'll be the busiest.

I think the UAE is going a little crazy with projects. Ah well usually several Canadian contracters get some sweet contracts with big projects in Dubai. So that's cool  Smile

Kris
 
as739x
Posts: 5008
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:48 pm

Ok, could Dubai ever attract that much traffic?

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
scotron11
Posts: 1181
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 4:54 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 4:58 pm

Quoting AS739X (Reply 6):

Ok, could Dubai ever attract that much traffic?

I guess they're going to try. And when you look at the explosive growth in air traffic over the last 10 years, think of what it'll be like 10-15 years from now.

Besides, they'll need all that space for their fleet!
 
Brasuca
Posts: 684
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:00 pm

Just for comparison, what airport currently has the largest capacity in the world?
Varig, Varig, Varig
 
sq212
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 6:14 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:08 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Thread starter):
Did a search and found nothing.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=3179

Quoting AS739X (Reply 1):
Largest in what regards: Maybe sq miles, sq feet of terminal.

The airport will measure 140 sq. km., 10 times the area of Dubai International and as big as London Heathrow and Chicago O'Hare combined.

140 sq. km is more than twice the land area of entire Singapore!

Quoting Glareskin (Thread starter):
Seems that EK gets good support from their govt.....

Appears both wants X-LARGE stuff. Too ambitious IMO. Hope it bears fruits.

Cheers
 
leelaw
Posts: 4520
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:23 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Thread starter):
Seems that EK gets good support from their govt.....

Not surprising, the al-Maktoum brothers (clan) control the Emirate of Dubai, as well as EK.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
eg777er
Posts: 1782
Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2000 11:11 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 5:27 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 2):
I agree. It's just not close enough to the center of where people want to travel.

3.5 billion people live within 8 hours flying time of DXB. It's right in the centre of the world...
 
rootsair
Posts: 4012
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 3:25 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:24 pm

IMHO the reason why DXB will never have a as great a traffic as LHR or ORD are:

1) As compraed to ORD, the DXB will NEVER have as much domestic traffic as ORD

2)As compared to LHR or CDG, DXB will NEVER have as many tourists coming there as in London or Paris

3) DXB does offer great connexions to asia...however this is great for Africa....but for Europe all major routes are operated directly from the major cities in Europe to the major cities in Asia...

DXB is certainly becoming an important hub but I don't think it will ever become as busy as ORD or LHR
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 6:49 pm

And you never know whether or not this airport will be built...... And I doubt it.

It is almost impossible/0 chance that Dubai will EVER become the busiest airport in the world unless people fly from Los Angeles to San Francisco, London to Paris or Hong Kong to Singapore via Dubai. There traffic is just not there. Besides if I wanna fly from an Asian city to Australia or Europe or even Africa, I can go direct without having to stop in Dubai.

So NO WAY will they ever surpass London, Chicago, Denver, Hong Kong, Singapore etc. NEVER. These places offer great connections. For example, Hong Kong is a gateway to China, Asia (including Japan), USA, Europe as well as Australia. But where is Dubai?
 
dazeflight
Posts: 481
Joined: Tue Jun 22, 1999 1:32 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:10 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 12):
3) DXB does offer great connexions to asia...however this is great for Africa....but for Europe all major routes are operated directly from the major cities in Europe to the major cities in Asia...

I guess that's why EK's flights from Europe are fully packed with ppl that do not have Dubai as their final destination.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
So NO WAY will they ever surpass London, Chicago, Denver, Hong Kong, Singapore etc. NEVER. These places offer great connections. For example, Hong Kong is a gateway to China, Asia (including Japan), USA, Europe as well as Australia. But where is Dubai?

Never say never. maybe they won't surpass London as a whole, but why not LHR? Your examples are polemic and not worth the 0.02$. Like eg777er said, half of the world's population lives within an 8 hour flying distance from DXB; additionally, this is the one half where most of the future growth in Air Travel will happen. If EK manages to get a good amount of the growth and fill it's A380s and B777's, there's a pretty good chance for DXB to become one of the largest airports worldwide - yes, paxwise.

ciao
Daniel
 
ekgold
Posts: 192
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 4:30 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:19 pm

Quoting Eg777er (Reply 11):
Quoting D L X (Reply 2):
I agree. It's just not close enough to the center of where people want to travel.

3.5 billion people live within 8 hours flying time of DXB. It's right in the centre of the world...

Exactly!

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
And you never know whether or not this airport will be built...... And I doubt it.

it is being built... i drive past the site everyday...

http://www.7days.ae/other-business/jaac-already-underway-3.html
Dubai Airport and Jebel Ali Airport need to be understood. The above article will give you an indication that the airport is not being built in isolation but as part of a series of developments that will centre around the airport and sea port being an intergrated logistics centre for the whole region as well as being able to handle 120m pax movements per year. It does not mean they are all going to stopover in Dubai..

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 10):
Quoting Glareskin (Thread starter):
Seems that EK gets good support from their govt.....


Not surprising, the al-Maktoum brothers (clan) control the Emirate of Dubai, as well as EK.

and the point of these posts are???
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:20 pm

I seriously doubt that EK will ever surpass BA, SQ etc and I strongly doubt that DXB will ever surpass HKG, SIN, LHR, JFK, ORD etc. The traffic isn't there. The world is not flat but round in shape. Just because DXB is 8 hours away from other cities and the fact that it is in the middle doesn't mean that everyone will have to go to/go through DXB. Nor will everyone wants to go in and out of the middle east. Besides, the population and the countries near gateways like HKG and SIN are much larger.

I could be wrong. Let's wait and see....
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:20 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
So NO WAY will they ever surpass London, Chicago, Denver, Hong Kong, Singapore etc. NEVER. These places offer great connections. For example, Hong Kong is a gateway to China, Asia (including Japan), USA, Europe as well as Australia. But where is Dubai?

More to the point, where exactly is Denver a gateway to...?

How many international destinations does Denver have direct service to...?

In terms of world importance, Dubai is WAY above Denver  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
EnviroTO
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:20 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):

It is almost impossible/0 chance that Dubai will EVER become the busiest airport in the world unless people fly from Los Angeles to San Francisco, London to Paris or Hong Kong to Singapore via Dubai.

They are mid-way between China, India, Europe, and Africa. As China, India, and hopefully Africa and the Middle East develop there may be increasing demand for air transport. The population of Europe + USA are small peanuts compared to China + India + Africa. It will definitely never be the largest in terms of aircraft movements since the potential for Dubai is large aircraft lower frequency long haul, not small aircraft high frequency short haul.
 
HiJazzey
Posts: 668
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:00 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:28 pm

The project masterplan is huge, but what they're building for now is just a cargo airport with 1 runway and a logistics area connected to Jebel Ali Free Zone.
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:30 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 17):

In terms of world importance, Dubai is WAY above Denver

Doubt it. Denver is a domestic hub. Heard that they plan to go International one day

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 18):
They are mid-way between China, India, Europe, and Africa. As China, India, and hopefully Africa and the Middle East develop there may be increasing demand for air transport. The population of Europe + USA are small peanuts compared to China + India + Africa. It will definitely never be the largest in terms of aircraft movements since the potential for Dubai is large aircraft lower frequency long haul, not small aircraft high frequency short haul.

But not everyone in China, India, Africa can afford to fly.

Well being well located you must also have a purpose to go there/go through there. Europe and USA are two of the world's most important places with lots of business activities. Not the middle east though. Besides nowadays you can easily fly from most parts of the world nonstop to/From Europe and USA. I doubt there is a need for such a super large airport.

Quoting EKGOLD (Reply 15):
Dubai Airport and Jebel Ali Airport need to be understood. The above article will give you an indication that the airport is not being built in isolation but as part of a series of developments that will centre around the airport and sea port being an intergrated logistics centre for the whole region as well as being able to handle 120m pax movements per year. It does not mean they are all going to stopover in Dubai..

Oh ok. I am not sure if it will really be that big. let's see....
 
aviasian
Posts: 1244
Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2001 8:11 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:36 pm

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 18):
They are mid-way between China, India, Europe, and Africa. As China, India, and hopefully Africa and the Middle East develop there may be increasing demand for air transport.

Yes, Dubai is mid-way between China/India and Europe . . . but airlines are developing direct services between them. That which trickles through Dubai are those that are less time-sensitive and more fare-sensitive.

Dubai meteoric growth to date is impressive and nothing said will diminish that. It should however be remembered that as this reaches critical mass, the high percentage growth may no longer be sustained . . . it will diminish from high double-digit to eventually single-digit percentage growth. Emirates is also facing challenges from other Middle Eastern airlines such as Qatar Airways, Etihad Airways and others. African airlines are also becoming more efficient and extending their reach.

There is a certain tendency in some parts of the world toward "buying" superlatives . . . the situation with the "world's tallest buildings" is one parallel situation. This title makes its rounds like musical chairs . . . and biggest airport is one thing, busiest airport is quite another. Ranking of Asia's airports by physical size need not necessarily reflect ranking by aircraft movements and passenger throughput. For the latter, I would put my bet on Shanghai Pudong Airport.

KC Sim
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:37 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 20):
Quoting Cornish (Reply 17):

In terms of world importance, Dubai is WAY above Denver

Doubt it. Denver is a domestic hub. Heard that they plan to go International one day

Its not a question of whether THEY plan - its a question of if the airlines plan.

yes Denver is a domestic hub - but even in America its not that important. Way behind the likes of ORD, EWR, LAX, ATL, SFO, DFW, MIA, PHL, DTW, MSP, etc, etc, etc.

Although perhaps your user name should have alerted me to why you think Denver is bizarrely more important than Dubai in the global civil aviation market.  Wink
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:44 pm

Well Denver is a lot busier than DXB, LAX, SFO, EWR etc in terms of total number flights as well as passengers. It is a huge domestic hub. It's just that it lacks international flights and passengers.

Quoting Aviasian (Reply 21):
For the latter, I would put my bet on Shanghai Pudong Airport

I doubt PVG will ever surpass HKG as a passenger/cargo hub. Afterall Hong Kong is the world's largest logistics centre (followed by Rotterdam and Singapore) and it is Asia's super hub. Better location and more international flights. But PVG is becoming important too.

Actually CAN is busier than PVG and China Southern is the biggest airline in China.

Again only time can tell.
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:49 pm

BTW any plans for Qatar and Doha?
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:05 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 23):
Well Denver is a lot busier than DXB, LAX, SFO, EWR etc in terms of total number flights as well as passengers. It is a huge domestic hub. It's just that it lacks international flights and passengers.

True enough, but in the changing aviation world, Denver is not brilliantly placed. Without a massive pure O&D market like certain other US cities with smaller overall passenger numbers, it is more likely to see passenger numbers fall or at least grow at a slower rate than other cities due to an increase of non-hub operations in the US. The continued growth of the LCC carriers coupled to the difficulties faced by the legacies is likely to see some current US hubs more at risk than others for cutback. The likes of ORD, EWR, and ATL will continue to be at the centre of the legacies' hub operations, but their other hubs surely stand to be more at risk. Yes Denver is a big hub at present, but by not being in one of the more densely populated areas of the country it is perhaps more at risk than those closer to the east or west coasts.

But i repeat - Denver may have more passengers and movements than Dubai, JFK, Hong Kong, singapore, etc, but in the grand scheme of things (i.e. not purely domestic) its not one of the word's leading airports
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:07 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 26):
True enough, but in the changing aviation world, Denver is not brilliantly placed. Without a massive pure O&D market like certain other US cities with smaller overall passenger numbers, it is more likely to see passenger numbers fall or at least grow at a slower rate than other cities due to an increase of non-hub operations in the US. The continued growth of the LCC carriers coupled to the difficulties faced by the legacies is likely to see some current US hubs more at risk than others for cutback. The likes of ORD, EWR, and ATL will continue to be at the centre of the legacies' hub operations, but their other hubs surely stand to be more at risk. Yes Denver is a big hub at present, but by not being in one of the more densely populated areas of the country it is perhaps more at risk than those closer to the east or west coasts.

But i repeat - Denver may have more passengers and movements than Dubai, JFK, Hong Kong, singapore, etc, but in the grand scheme of things (i.e. not purely domestic) its not one of the word's leading airports

I believe so too. I agree.  Smile
 
cornish
Posts: 7651
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:05 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:11 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 27):
I believe so too. I agree.

Phew. That's ok then  Smile
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
Glareskin
Topic Author
Posts: 1002
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:35 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:30 pm

Quoting EKGOLD (Reply 15):
Quoting Leelaw (Reply 10):
Quoting Glareskin (Thread starter):
Seems that EK gets good support from their govt.....

Not surprising, the al-Maktoum brothers (clan) control the Emirate of Dubai, as well as EK.

and the point of these posts are???

The point of my post was obviously to inform the a.net about this plans. And my remark about the government support has no negative bias. Just a simple observation that the Emirate of Dubai is supporting the big plans of EK to become the #1 airline in the world and making Dubai the #1 hub.

And as a reaction to some posts from people who doubt it, I do believe they will succeed.
1 As someone else mentioned it is exactly the middle of the world.
2 EK is the most ambitious and one of the most profitable airlines in the world
3 Dubai is one of the most dynamic places in the world
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:31 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 20):
But not everyone in China, India, Africa can afford to fly.

If only 10% of the people can afford to fly in these regions, you have already a potential that's much bigger than the people in the US or Europe who can afford to fly.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 20):
Europe and USA are two of the world's most important places with lots of business activities.

Tell that to Airbus or Boeing, they gladly take Asia instead if they had to choose.  Wink

Add to that the enormous expansion we have seen lately from both European and US airlines to China and India and it's clear where money is to be made.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 20):
Besides nowadays you can easily fly from most parts of the world nonstop to/From Europe and USA.

You can also fly nonstop from FRA to BCN, yet some people choose to fly from HHN to GIR. If the price is right, EK will fill up these planes, I just hope that this will not be at the cost of their inflight product.

The plan is ambitious, but I doubt DXB will want to build another airport in 20 years time. If you're building something, and you can afford it, better do it good from the first time.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:45 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 28):
Phew. That's ok then

Thanks. Cool!

Quoting Manni (Reply 30):
If only 10% of the people can afford to fly in these regions, you have already a potential that's much bigger than the people in the US or Europe who can afford to fly.

Definitely less than that.

Quoting Manni (Reply 30):
Tell that to Airbus or Boeing, they gladly take Asia instead if they had to choose.

Add to that the enormous expansion we have seen lately from both European and US airlines to China and India and it's clear where money is to be made.

US/European airlines make heaps of money on transatlantic routes too. And some within Europe.

USA is the world's largest aviation market followed by Europe. And the world's top 10 largest airlines are all from USA and Europe. It's just that many of them are in some form of financial problems or bankruptcy and they can't afford to expand. When the situation gets better I am sure they will start placing huge orders too which Boeing and Airbus are more than happy to take. Hope they will recover soon.

Quoting Manni (Reply 30):
You can also fly nonstop from FRA to BCN, yet some people choose to fly from HHN to GIR. If the price is right, EK will fill up these planes, I just hope that this will not be at the cost of their inflight product.

Most people fly direct from Asia to Europe/USA nowadays. And certainly you will never see anyone flying between LAX and SFO via DXB, or HKG-SIN via DXB. Afterall it's a lot longer.

I wouldn't mind doing a stopover if the time difference is not that big. And if the price is reasonable.

:D:D:D
 
EurostarVA
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:24 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:58 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 24):
BTW any plans for Qatar and Doha?

Work has already started on the New Doha International Airport (NDIA), which is just a huge redevelopment of the current airport, with a new runway being built on land reclaimed from the sea. To the best of my knowledge, the first phase is scheduled for completion by 2008 and will increase capacity to 12 million passengers per anum, and the 2nd phase when approved will increase that further to 30 million pax. It's just unfortunate they couldnt complete phase I in time for the Asian Games to be held in Doha next year.

Also, ADIA or Abu Dhabi International Airport is being redeveloped on the existing site, with a huge Midfield Megaterminal to be built. Final design will be chosen by a professional commity next month.

These are phenomenal times for Middle Eastern aviation!!!!!
If there is a will, there is a way
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:15 pm

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 32):
Work has already started on the New Doha International Airport (NDIA), which is just a huge redevelopment of the current airport, with a new runway being built on land reclaimed from the sea. To the best of my knowledge, the first phase is scheduled for completion by 2008 and will increase capacity to 12 million passengers per anum, and the 2nd phase when approved will increase that further to 30 million pax. It's just unfortunate they couldnt complete phase I in time for the Asian Games to be held in Doha next year.

Also, ADIA or Abu Dhabi International Airport is being redeveloped on the existing site, with a huge Midfield Megaterminal to be built. Final design will be chosen by a professional commity next month.

These are phenomenal times for Middle Eastern aviation!!!!!

Not bad.

Looking forward to the Asian Games 2006 in Doha.
 
caribb
Posts: 1504
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:33 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:33 pm

Quoting Eg777er (Reply 11):
3.5 billion people live within 8 hours flying time of DXB. It's right in the centre of the world...

True but how many of them are financially able to use air travel. There are large populations in Africa and South America too but it doesn't mean the actual air travel market is the same size. Yes the UAE is wealthy and yes there is a large wealthy population in India, Saudi Arabia and other areas nearby but at the moment I doubt that overall there is a such a massive realistic air travel market that would support the need for such a large airport. EK I think is going after long haul connections, they are very well positioned to serve pretty much any continent. If that translates to 120 million people a year we'll see but I'm pretty confident other hubs will make sure that won't happen without a fight.
 
IL76
Posts: 2237
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:43 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:42 pm

Quoting Sq212 (Reply 9):
140 sq. km is more than twice the land area of entire Singapore!

Eh? Singapore is 14x10km?  no 
 
IL76
Posts: 2237
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 5:43 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:52 pm

I don't see why Dubai should be such a major hub, that might 'steal away' traffic from other airports. Europe-Asia can be done non-stop. Europe-Africa can be done non-stop. Africa-Asia can be done non-stop. America-Asia takes the Pacific/polar route. America-India needs a a stop somewhere, doesn't really matter where. Same goes for Europe-Australia.

I'd really like to see how this turns out. Things that grow too quickly usually disappear just as fast.

E
 
Vimanav
Posts: 1439
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 4:33 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:55 pm

Quoting Sq212 (Reply 9):
140 sq. km is more than twice the land area of entire Singapore!

The total land area of Singapore is 682.7 sq.km. They are still about 20% the size of Singapore.

rgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
Jet-lagged
Posts: 819
Joined: Mon Mar 04, 2002 11:58 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:57 pm

I think Dubai is making good use of their oil money to build infrastructure and invest in a variety of developments for the future.
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:09 pm

Quoting Glareskin (Thread starter):
Seems that EK gets good support from their govt.....

Well, all airlines that fly from a government owned airport get "support" from their governments when the government decides to expand the airport.

Quoting D L X (Reply 2):
It's just not close enough to the center of where people want to travel.

It's smack in the middle of where the largest growth in air travel is today.

Quoting Sq212 (Reply 9):
140 sq. km is more than twice the land area of entire Singapore!

Singapore is 692.7 sq km, according to the CIA.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
Besides if I wanna fly from an Asian city to Australia or Europe or even Africa, I can go direct without having to stop in Dubai.

Research has shown that the nonstop factor is by far not the most important factor for passengers. The most important factor is the ticket price. You will see that most people are willing to make an unneccesary stopover if they can save some money.

Besides, your statement here is only true for the biggest cities, like CDG-HKG, LHR-BKK, FRA-SIN. But there are literally hundreds of routes where you cannot go nonstop between Asia, Europe and Africa. Let me give you a few examples:

SIN-HAM
MNL-LHR
Madras-FCO
SYD-FRA
KUL-CPH
TPE-IST
DPS-ZRH
SGN-MAN

And several hundreds of similar routes. You have to make at least one stopover somewhere on all these routes. Why not in DXB?

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
if I wanna fly from an Asian city to Australia or Europe or even Africa, I can go direct without having to stop in Dubai.

So NO WAY will they ever surpass London, Chicago, Denver, Hong Kong, Singapore etc. NEVER. These places offer great connections.

So what's the best? Nonstop flights, or airports with great connections? It seems to me that you're contradicting yourself.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
London, Chicago, Denver, Hong Kong, Singapore

Chicago and Denver are really located in the middle of nowhere. Less than 500 million people live in North America, and North America is a very isolated continent. In comparison, Dubai is smack in the middle of Asia, Africa and Europe, where you have 80 percent of the world's population.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 31):
USA is the world's largest aviation market followed by Europe. And the world's top 10 largest airlines are all from USA and Europe.

The US is the largest market today, but the economy is growing a lot faster in many Asian countries compared to the US. They're building the airport for tomorrow, not for today.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
User avatar
sebolino
Posts: 3495
Joined: Tue May 29, 2001 11:26 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:20 pm

Quoting Caribb (Reply 34):
True but how many of them are financially able to use air travel.

More and more. I guess that's the point of this airport: anticipation
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:46 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 31):

USA is the world's largest aviation market followed by Europe.

True, and it's also the largest money loser with the worst inflight product and has arguably the worlds oldest average fleet.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 31):
Definitely less than that.

I said IF 10%, you say DEFINITELY less than that. Do you have actual figures to back up definitely?

Quoting United Airline (Reply 31):
US/European airlines make heaps of money on transatlantic routes too. And some within Europe.


I dont know, these rapports are not available to me.  Wink

Quoting United Airline (Reply 31):
you will never see anyone flying between LAX and SFO via DXB,

You've got to be kidding me.  no 

How about DUS-DXB-CHC or MAN-DXB-KWI or FCO-DXB-CCU, then there's ICN-DXB-CAI or KIX-DXB-JNB or HKG-DXB-LOS, you can continue with SYD-DXB-ATH or SIN-DXB-IST or BKK-DXB-MRU, get my point?
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
flymia
Posts: 6810
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:47 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 39):
Chicago and Denver are really located in the middle of nowhere

Well Chicago is located in Chicago. It is a huge hub for two of the largest airlines in the wold AA and UA. Its a major gateway to the US from Europe and Asia and a gateway to the Midwest from the US. Also Chicago is on the the world largest Financial Centre's so that gets a good amount of O&D. As for Denver, well its just Denver and a good DOMESTIC hub. Nothing special. Just a well located domestic hub for the US.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 23):
Well Denver is a lot busier than DXB, LAX, SFO, EWR etc in terms of total number flights as well as passengers

Since when did DEN have more PAX than LAX? LAX carries almost 20 million more PAX a year than DEN.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
JetMaster
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 12):
1) As compraed to ORD, the DXB will NEVER have as much domestic traffic as ORD

I don't think DXB will ever focus on domestic travel...  Wink

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 12):
2)As compared to LHR or CDG, DXB will NEVER have as many tourists coming there as in London or Paris

NEVER say never.

Quoting RootsAir (Reply 12):
3) DXB does offer great connexions to asia...however this is great for Africa....but for Europe all major routes are operated directly from the major cities in Europe to the major cities in Asia...

You mean such as HAM-KHI, GLA-CMB, DUS-KUL or BHX-HKG and all those others? Haven't seen them yet...

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
And you never know whether or not this airport will be built...... And I doubt it.

Tell me a project which Dubai has not finished...?

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
It is almost impossible/0 chance that Dubai will EVER become the busiest airport in the world unless people fly from Los Angeles to San Francisco, London to Paris or Hong Kong to Singapore via Dubai.

Have you ever checked EK's timetable and frequencies?

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
There traffic is just not there.

DXB's and EK's growth suggest otherwise.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
So NO WAY will they ever surpass London, Chicago, Denver, Hong Kong, Singapore etc. NEVER.

What do you think people in the 1930s would have said about a possible flight to the moon. NEVER?  Smile

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
These places offer great connections.

And DXB doesn't? Check EK's timetable: www.emirates.com

Quoting United Airline (Reply 13):
For example, Hong Kong is a gateway to China, Asia (including Japan), USA, Europe as well as Australia. But where is Dubai?

You wouldn't ask that after checking EK's network - and thinking about all those cities in Europe, Asia and Africa were they don't fly to yet.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 16):
I seriously doubt that EK will ever surpass BA, SQ etc

SQ? Just a matter of time. Compare both EK's and SQ's fleets, their orders and growth rates.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 16):
Just because DXB is 8 hours away from other cities and the fact that it is in the middle doesn't mean that everyone will have to go to/go through DXB.

No, not everyone. That's right.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 16):
Nor will everyone wants to go in and out of the middle east.

Millions and more millions every year don't have a problem with that. They know Dubai is not Iraq.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 20):
Besides nowadays you can easily fly from most parts of the world nonstop to/From Europe and USA.

WRONG.

Quoting Aviasian (Reply 21):
That which trickles through Dubai are those that are less time-sensitive and more fare-sensitive.

Wrong again.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 31):
Most people fly direct from Asia to Europe/USA nowadays.

Tell that to those living in Athens, Berlin, Birmingham, Dusseldorf, Geneva, Glasgow, Hamburg, Istanbul, Manchester, Prague...

Quoting United Airline (Reply 31):
And certainly you will never see anyone flying between LAX and SFO via DXB, or HKG-SIN via DXB.

Why would anyone do that?

Quoting IL76 (Reply 36):
Europe-Asia can be done non-stop.

See the list above...

Quoting IL76 (Reply 36):
Same goes for Europe-Australia.

You can connect from a wide range of European cities to MEL, PER and SYD via ONE stop at DXB...which other airport can offer that?

Quoting IL76 (Reply 36):
Things that grow too quickly usually disappear just as fast.

People have been predicting Dubai's end for many years.


Regards,
JM
The Journey is my Destination
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:05 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 39):
Research has shown that the nonstop factor is by far not the most important factor for passengers. The most important factor is the ticket price. You will see that most people are willing to make an unneccesary stopover if they can save some money.

Alright my apologies for the wrong information. Yes LAX is busier.

Quoting Flymia (Reply 42):
Well Chicago is located in Chicago. It is a huge hub for two of the largest airlines in the wold AA and UA. Its a major gateway to the US from Europe and Asia and a gateway to the Midwest from the US. Also Chicago is on the the world largest Financial Centre's so that gets a good amount of O&D. As for Denver, well its just Denver and a good DOMESTIC hub. Nothing special. Just a well located domestic hub for the US.

Exactly. Heard that they plan to turn Denver into an International hub. Not sure if they can do it.

Chicago is a large business and financial centre but not the largest. From what I read, the largest business/ financial centre is New York, followed by London, Hong Kong and Tokyo.

Quoting Manni (Reply 41):
True, and it's also the largest money loser with the worst inflight product and has arguably the worlds oldest average fleet.

Airlines like BA, UA etc have young fleets. Not NW though.

In the past US airlines used to make heaps of money. Hope they will do better in the future and return to their former glory (UA used to be a huge money maker).

Quoting Manni (Reply 41):
How about DUS-DXB-CHC or MAN-DXB-KWI or FCO-DXB-CCU, then there's ICN-DXB-CAI or KIX-DXB-JNB or HKG-DXB-LOS, you can continue with SYD-DXB-ATH or SIN-DXB-IST or BKK-DXB-MRU, get my point?



Quoting RedChili (Reply 39):
Research has shown that the nonstop factor is by far not the most important factor for passengers. The most important factor is the ticket price. You will see that most people are willing to make an unneccesary stopover if they can save some money.



Quoting RedChili (Reply 39):
SIN-HAM
MNL-LHR
Madras-FCO
SYD-FRA
KUL-CPH
TPE-IST
DPS-ZRH
SGN-MAN

And several hundreds of similar routes. You have to make at least one stopover somewhere on all these routes. Why not in DXB?

HKG, SIN, LHR etc are bigger hubs that's for sure. And people can choose HKG, SIN or LHR etc instead of DXB. Only time can tell. And I am sure they will fight to maintain their positions and competitive edge.

Quoting RedChili (Reply 39):
So what's the best? Nonstop flights, or airports with great connections? It seems to me that you're contradicting yourself.

It depends.

Again, my 2 cents

Regards.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:24 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 43):
Airlines like BA, UA etc have young fleets. Not NW though.

I guess that was a typo, but just in case it isn't, BA is a British airline, not an American.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
EurostarVA
Posts: 1205
Joined: Thu May 16, 2002 12:24 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:39 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 40):
How about DUS-DXB-CHC or MAN-DXB-KWI or FCO-DXB-CCU, then there's ICN-DXB-CAI or KIX-DXB-JNB or HKG-DXB-LOS, you can continue with SYD-DXB-ATH or SIN-DXB-IST or BKK-DXB-MRU, get my point?

Exactly. Emirates has a goal to connect major and secondary cities in the world with other major and secondary cities, via its hub in Dubai.

Other airlines like CX, SQ and BA can fight to remain competitive, but there is no stopping of the following facts:

CX, SQ have poor European and African coverage as compared to Emirates. It isn't likely any time soon that these Asian carriers will venture into Glasgow, Nice, Malta, Munich, for example.

BA has a competitive product but again, considering the certainty of China and India becoming major world markets for long-haul air transport, and Africa to a lesser extent, it is unlikely to reap the benefits as much as Emirates, whose hub is strategically located between 3 continents.

Having said that, I think all indicators point to a near certainty of Emirates overtaking SQ and CX very soon. Actually, it's been reported that EK will surpass Lufthansa in terms of passenger numbers in a couple of years.

Things could be bright and magical for Emirates and Dubai in general. However, the real challenge for Emirates is managing its unprecedented explosive growth, and the risks associated with falling standards, employment stability/recruitment, social conditions in Dubai, the revolving-door nature of the expatriate community, etc. EK should work real hard on these issues.
If there is a will, there is a way
 
United Airline
Posts: 8773
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2001 5:24 pm

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:08 am

Quoting Manni (Reply 44):
Quoting United Airline (Reply 43):
Airlines like BA, UA etc have young fleets. Not NW though.

I guess that was a typo, but just in case it isn't, BA is a British airline, not an American.

Well I was talking about European and American aviation.

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 45):
CX, SQ have poor European and African coverage as compared to Emirates. It isn't likely any time soon that these Asian carriers will venture into Glasgow, Nice, Malta, Munich, for example.

But CX and SQ's European routes have much higher yields due to business travellers.

BA has a competitive product but again, considering the certainty of China and India becoming major world markets for long-haul air transport, and Africa to a lesser extent, it is unlikely to reap the benefits as much as Emirates, whose hub is strategically located between 3 continents.

Still they can open up new long haul routes.

Quoting EurostarVA (Reply 45):
Having said that, I think all indicators point to a near certainty of Emirates overtaking SQ and CX very soon. Actually, it's been reported that EK will surpass Lufthansa in terms of passenger numbers in a couple of years.

I doubt EK will surpass CX, SQ etc not to mention LH, BA, AF, UA etc in terms of passenger numbers of RPKs.

CX has huge opportunities to expand into China. Hope they will make good use of it and not waste it.

[Edited 2005-11-23 17:11:26]
 
N270FT
Posts: 78
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 8:32 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:19 am

What is happening with the current Dubai Intl. It has very new and modern facilities.

AW
 
MCIrunway
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 6:44 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:28 am

I applaud DXB for having the foresight to create infrastructure before it's needed. However, I believe the doubters are only trying to say that DXB may be too ambitious --it's not like other carriers and/or airport authorities are just going to concede all these 42 trillion passengers to DXB + EK because of their location and capacity, advantageous though they may be.

You got 'em JetMaster! Yay for you!
 
JetMaster
Posts: 583
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: Dubai To Become Busiest Airport In The World

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:35 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 46):
Still they can open up new long haul routes.

Do you really expect to see many new secondary international airports to be connected to SIN or HKG soon? They simply won't match EK's European presence. For EK both European and Asian routes are not really "longhaul" which means they can lift up full payload in most cases, including lots of cargo. It's much easier for them to open up new routes.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 46):
I doubt EK will surpass CX, SQ etc not to mention LH in terms of passenger numbers of RPKs.

If you compare their fleets and their growth rates then you realize it's just a matter of time until Emirates surpasses them.

Passenger numbers financial year 2004/2005 (million):

SQ: 15,9
CX: 13,7
EK: 12,5 (up from 10,4 in 2003/2004)



Regards,
JM
The Journey is my Destination