AMSGOT
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KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:42 pm

Leo van Wijk told Luchtvaarnieuws.nl KLM is going to phase out the old 737's (300/400) and replace them with 738's and 739's. KLM still has to decide if they're going to equip all their 737NG's with blendet winglets.

Quite remarkable to see KLM is about to order 738's and 739, while AF chose Airbus. Anyway, this means more good news for Boeing this week!

edit:
luchtvaartnieuws article

[Edited 2005-11-23 12:44:43]
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N328KF
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:12 pm

KL already operates the 737NG, and they're not about to get rid of them, so commonality with AF is a moot point.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
fraport
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:25 pm

Are they a candidate for the -900ER as they already operate non-ERs?
 
keesje
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:32 pm

Quoting AMSGOT (Thread starter):
Quite remarkable to see KLM is about to order 738's and 739, while AF chose Airbus.

KLM & AF are two airlines taking the best decisions to improve their bottom lines. Not only in words but in also practice. Working together can help to improve the bottom lines, so they do.

FYI the NG´s are getting a cabin upgrade, the CG´s too.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
TriStar500
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:32 pm

Also, once your fleet has reached a sufficiently large number, there are hardly any gains from a potential commonality to other fleets.
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Fokker70NG
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:48 pm

Last summer AF and KL even stated that they were not thinking about fleet harmonisation yet.

Source, in dutch: http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=8573
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Halibut
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:03 pm

How many 737s' are we talking here ?

 confused 

Halibut
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hansieAMS
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:08 pm

Quote:

KLM beschikt over 27 vliegtuigen van dit type, waarvan er vijftien zijn geleasd.

Translation: KLM has 27 of these (old 737) aircraft in the fleet, of which 15 are leased.
 
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N328KF
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:08 pm

Quoting Halibut (Reply 6):
How many 737s' are we talking here ?

Looks like 27.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
Halibut
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:16 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 8):
Quoting Halibut (Reply 6):
How many 737s' are we talking here ?

Looks like 27.

Cool !  cool 

Thanx

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:56 pm

Note that KLM is only about to order 737 NG's , wich means they will only go for 700's for the 300 and 400 replacement... wouldn't suprise me if the order will be smaller than the number of 300/400's they have, since some 737-300 routes will be taken over by new F-100's and F-70's entering the fleet soon (ex pelitta and all ex AF;s)
 
lamedianaranja
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:18 pm

Hopefully they'll go for the winglet-option.That aircraft looks so cute with large winglets.
Only today I was admiring the Privatair B737/KL663 aircraft, absolutely gorgeous. It was parked at gate D03 at SPL. Surely a picture taken from the spectator terrace will show up soon.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
Joost
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:24 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 10):
Note that KLM is only about to order 737 NG's , wich means they will only go for 700's for the 300 and 400 replacement...

Where do you see they are only about to order the -700s? In the article, it is not stated. Are you confused with the 73G-designation (which means 737-700) and the 737 NG (which includes all -600 to -900s).

Not all airlines are looking for 1-to-1 replacement for their planes. It might well be that they only order -800s or a combination of -800s and -900s. How do you know that their current fleet is the exact perfect match for their current company structure?

I won't be surprised however if they'd order some 737-700s too. Also, Transavia already operates this type.
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:25 pm

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 10):
Note that KLM is only about to order 737 NG's , wich means they will only go for 700's for the 300 and 400 replacement...

It doesn't say that - it could be any of the 737NGs, not just the -700 or "73G" as it's commonly known.

EDIT: Simultaneous posting! What Joost said  Wink

[Edited 2005-11-23 15:26:52]
 
jwenting
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:28 pm

And don't forget the talk last year about replacing some F100s with 737s, shifting those to F70 routes, and shifting some F70s to F50 routes which would then be retired...

KLM seems to want an all-jet fleet, and that would be a logical choice (unless they're getting ERJs to replace the Fokkers, also in the rumour mill).
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lamedianaranja
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:09 am

Quoting Joost (Reply 12):
I won't be surprised however if they'd order some 737-700s too. Also, Transavia already operates this type.

And already KLM is operating 2 of HV's aircraft with its own cockpit- and cabin crew.
I wish that all skies were orange and blue!!
 
mauriceb
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:45 am

Quoting Lamedianaranja (Reply 15):
And already KLM is operating 2 of HV's aircraft with its own cockpit- and cabin crew.

but those are 800's  Wink
 
panam330
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:16 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 14):
KLM seems to want an all-jet fleet, and that would be a logical choice (unless they're getting ERJs to replace the Fokkers, also in the rumour mill).

An ERJ-145 in the KL color scheme would be gorgeous, IMO. As would a CR7. Hope to see that come to fruition.
 
petertenthije
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:25 am

Quoting PanAm330 (Reply 17):
An ERJ-145 in the KL color scheme would be gorgeous, IMO. As would a CR7. Hope to see that come to fruition.

Search the database for a KLM Exel E145. They flew 3 or 4 of them mostly from Eindhoven.
Attamottamotta!
 
jwenting
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:40 am

Exel operated 3 ERJs.
2 for KLM operations, one on longterm lease to the RNth Navy (don't know what livery that one used).

The ERJs were later transferred to the Netherlands Antilles under the BonairExel brand.
No idea where they are now.
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petertenthije
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting Jwenting (Reply 19):
No idea where they are now.

Spotter PH-RXA in MAN last week with EXEL livery and BMI Regional titles.
Attamottamotta!
 
AeroVodochody
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:13 am

Yeah but the KL ERJ's weren't painted in the KL Scheme.

Good News for KL, its pax, and Boeing though. Big grin

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eraugrad02
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:24 pm

Quoting Fraport (Reply 2):

I hope boeing gets another order for these also. we will just have to see. this is my favorite plane now that the 757 is no longer in production.

i have a feeling the 900er will be the only 900 now. why sell the same airframe when the ER can hold so many more pax and fly farther.

anyone else know if boeing will continue to build the 900 with the 900er once the ER is flying?
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jwenting
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:36 pm

The Exel ERJs (the 2 of them) were in KLM livery with Exel titles at least at some point.
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speedbirdegjj
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:43 pm

Quoting AeroVodochody (Reply 21):
Yeah but the KL ERJ's weren't painted in the KL Scheme.

Sorry to go off topic somewhat, but you're wrong


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Photo © Peter Unmuth - VAP

 
Joost
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:01 pm

Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 22):
i have a feeling the 900er will be the only 900 now. why sell the same airframe when the ER can hold so many more pax and fly farther.

Well, when the customer does not need the extra range or pax, a 900 can be cheaper to produce and thus to sell.
 
JRadier
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:45 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 25):
Quoting ERAUgrad02 (Reply 22):
i have a feeling the 900er will be the only 900 now. why sell the same airframe when the ER can hold so many more pax and fly farther.

Well, when the customer does not need the extra range or pax, a 900 can be cheaper to produce and thus to sell.

and it's logical that the extra door will make the aircraft heavier, making it more expensive to operate. For example KLM, they don't need the extra seats, and they don't need the extra range (as of now), why haul around the extra weight of that door.
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dutchjet
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:07 pm

Good to hear that KL will stick with the 737NG family to replace is 733/734 fleet......I think that we will see an order for about 35 aircraft, and I think that KL will add the 739ER to its fleet to operate routes out of AMS to the Middle East and other such destinations.....operating the739ER will give KL some more flexibility on certain longer routes and allow more cargo payload and avoid restrictions. Flexibility is a very good thing. Also consider that KL is in the process of replacing its 763 fleet with the A332 - there are certain routes for which the larger A332 may not make sense and its extra seats not needed, thus the 739ER will be a useful addition to the fleet for select routes now flown by the 763. Lastly, the 739ER is a growth aircraft - longer routes now flown by the 738 can be upgraded to the 739ER as required, in many cases, the base 739 lacks range for these routes.

I also think that we shall see the 73G in KL's colors........its a big jump from the F100 (or its replacement over time) to the 738, thus we are likely to see a KL narrowbody fleet composed of the 73G/738/739/739ER....with the 738 dominating.

KL and AF dont have a real need to rationalize their narrowbody fleets......both have large enough fleets of aircraft that standardizing on one type really is not a big issue, and the aircraft have different bases and are flown by different crews.
 
georgiabill
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:13 pm

Good news for both KLM and Boeing! Is KLM a candidate for the 773ER or 787? Or will they add additional A332's and possibly A333's?
 
kappel
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:39 pm

Quoting Georgiabill (Reply 28):
Good news for both KLM and Boeing! Is KLM a candidate for the 773ER or 787? Or will they add additional A332's and possibly A333's?

They are considering the 787/a350 for replacement of the MD-11's after 2012. The 773ER seems to a logical replacement for the 744pax, and the combi's will most likely be replaced by more 772ER's. I doubt they will consider the a333, no need for that plane with the a359 on the horizon, if they would go with Airbus in that segment.
IMHO we will also not see the 748 in KLM colours. They only have 5 full pax 744's and that is probalby too small a number for a new type.
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CV990
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:13 am

Hi!

I'm very pleased to see KLM ordering new airplanes to replace the quite old 737-300/400's. I also think the best option should be for the 737-700, like one of our friends said Transavia is already using them and I think it would fit nicely in some of their routes.
Now a good point will be regarding the MD11 replacement, I think even knowing that KL will operate them until 2012 KLM can't sleep on that too much, if they want an airplane to replace it they will need to make a decision maybe in 2007, orders are already pooring on the 787 and A350 and slots will be delaying more and more, TAP for example is ordering their A350's to be delivered from 2012 on, and at that time they'll replaced firstly the A340-300, so KLM I'm sure they are already considering both types or any other I don't know! But I think it's gonna be a hell of a tender between Boeing and Airbus.... both have great planes to offer and both will fit perfectly in KLM network. I would just give a very, very slight advantage for Airbus, and this maybe because they just started operating the A330-200 and they could do a bit the same TAP deal, latter they could trade the A330 for A350's!!! But due to the fact that KLM is also a very good Boeing client the 787 is a very strong contender too! One thing i know KLM guys will buy the best, these guys are excelent in deciding the best airplanes for them!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
keesje
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:29 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 30):
I also think the best option should be for the 737-700

I think the -700 doesn't offer big advantages in comparison to the -800. The -800 offers capasity flexibility over the -700.

The 900ER's significantlty increased seat capasity could be interesting for West European trunk flights (FRA, LHR, CDG etc).
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
CV990
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:33 am

Hi Keesje!

Just one question, did Boeing projected the 737-700 to replace the 737-300 Classic? I was just thinking about Southwest and how they have been replacing the 300 versions they have with the 700 ones. I might understand that the 400 could be replaced nicely by the 800, but 700?
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
keesje
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:59 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 32):
CV990

The -700 is a little lighter, generally has lower engine powersettings etc, so is marginally cheaper to operate. When you are sure you don't need the additions capasity of the -800 (e.g. you cramp in max number of seats & no galleys etc.) it can be the best buy.

When you don't and you want to create economies of scale / flexibility in your fleet utilization ordering a bigger -800 can be a good idea.

http://www.tca.viscal.net/klm/images/hangar/fs2004/aircraft/kh738klm-3.jpg

E.g. engines and landing gears of the -700, 800/900 are nearly the same, but not totally, so you'lll have to get additional spares in case of scheduled/ un scheduled maintenance.

Anyway the market is growing rapidly & load factors are extremely high for KLM. Adding additional seats compared to the -300 can be meeting additional demand..
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
kappel
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:01 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 32):
Just one question, did Boeing projected the 737-700 to replace the 737-300 Classic? I was just thinking about Southwest and how they have been replacing the 300 versions they have with the 700 ones. I might understand that the 400 could be replaced nicely by the 800, but 700?
Regards

It may not be directed at me, but the -700 was originally referred to as the
-300x, and the -800 the 400x, and finally the -600 was the 500x. So yes, those are the intended replacements.
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Joost
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RE: KLM To Replace Old 737 By 737NG

Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:59 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 33):
E.g. engines and landing gears of the -700, 800/900 are nearly the same, but not totally, so you'lll have to get additional spares in case of scheduled/ un scheduled maintenance.

That's right. But here, you should consider that Transavia already operates 10 737-7K2s and so they have commonalty with them too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK Transavia and KLM have a shared maintainence programme.