BestWestern
Topic Author
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Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:40 pm

I have it on excellent authority that Air Tahiti nui will commence London Tahiti services in 2006. Services will initially commence twice weekly.

The routing will involve a US stop over with full traffic rights. (Potentially LGW - JFK - PPT - with TN being the only airline to offer LGW JFK flights)
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
cornish
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:46 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Thread starter):
(Potentially LGW - JFK - PPT - with TN being the only airline to offer LGW JFK flights)

no chance of them getting into LHR under new entrant/market slot rules then?
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:56 pm

I'm there. Simple as.

They are a fantastic airline. Damn good way of getting to New York if you ask me.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 10:59 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 1):
no chance of them getting into LHR under new entrant/market slot rules then?

perhaps TN , as a predominantly leisure airline , does not want to pay over-the-top prices for slots at LHR . They are high on my list of airlines to try 'one day' . I have yet to see a bad review of them - so good luck on this service - be nice for Kiwis/Aussies to have yet another NZ/Aus - UK option .  thumbsup 
 
ANother
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:07 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 1):
under new entrant/market slot rules then

They would qualify as a new entrant, but I would doubt that there would be attractive slots in the pool that they could use.

Do French airlines have unlimited 5ths out of the UK? I know the within EU market is completely deregulated, but what about EU-third country? If any EU carrier has unlimited 5ths and as US-France is open skies it would seem that TN already has the authority to do this.

If this is correct, is it also not correct that any EU airline based in one of the 15 countries with an open-skies agreement, already has HEATHROW - US rights? (subject to slot availability). i.e. LH or KL etc. could start this tomorrow!
 
cornish
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:13 pm

Quoting ANother (Reply 4):
They would qualify as a new entrant, but I would doubt that there would be attractive slots in the pool that they could use.

well you never know - remember they would only be looking at one slot pair - and then it almost certainly wouldn't be daily.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
SQno1
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:18 pm

What about LGW-SFO-PPT?

With Regards,
Alex.B
 
2travel2know
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:44 pm

If it's the leisure market they're after, why not to fly to LTN or STN?

Quoting SQno1 (Reply 6):
What about LGW-SFO-PPT?

This sounds much better (and shorter) than PPT-JFK-LGW.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Arsenal@LHR
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:48 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 7):
If it's the leisure market they're after, why not to fly to LTN or STN?

Gatwick is the preferred airport for the longer leisure destinations for a lot of airlines. LTN and STN are still very much a LCC and regional leisure destination airport.
In Arsene we trust!!
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:49 pm

Can the A343 do JFK-PPT non-stop?

I'd be amazed if it could.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 7):
Quoting SQno1 (Reply 6):
What about LGW-SFO-PPT?

This sounds much better (and shorter) than PPT-JFK-LGW.

only slightly shorter - about 150nm according to Great Circle Mapper - but I guess JFK has the advantage that it is already a current destination for TN . SFO is only an hours flight from LAX which is a major destination for TN so they might not see the sense in opening a third point in the US at the moment
 
A360
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:55 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 9):
Can the A343 do JFK-PPT non-stop?

I'd be amazed if it could.

Yes it can, with no problems.

It's long, but not that long... "Just" 10122 km.

Regards:
A360
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Wed Nov 23, 2005 11:58 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 9):
Can the A343 do JFK-PPT non-stop?

I'd be amazed if it could.

no , it can't - but shhhhhhhh - don't tell TN - 'cos they have been doing it for months
 Big grin
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:03 am

Blimey - thats impressive. People can say what they want about the A340-300 but, aside from being one of the most beautiful aircraft God ever put on this Earth, she does have some serious range on her.

How long is JFK-PPT? 11 hours?
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
SQno1
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:17 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 7):

This sounds much better (and shorter) than PPT-JFK-LGW.

Well i said PPT-SFO-LGW because it would open two in my opinion rather important destinations for TN. I never considered that it would be shorter than doing LGW-JFK-PPT.

With Regards,
Alex.B
 
gordonsmall
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:37 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 13):
How long is JFK-PPT? 11 hours?

JFK-PPT is only a nudge under 5500 nm. That's barely enough to stretch the legs of even the early A340's.

In fact, even an A330-243 with the 233t MTOW can do that with a more than profitable load.
Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
 
atco2b
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:47 am

Im all for LGW-JFK!

Will definitely boost tourism in Tahiti, perhaps the new Barbados? Big grin
Hey, you want to go out for pizza and some sex? What, you don't like pizza?
 
BigOrange
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:49 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 13):
How long is JFK-PPT? 11 hours?

It's 13 hours and 11:45 on the way back
 
2travel2know
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:30 am

Quoting Arsenal@LHR (Reply 8):
Gatwick is the preferred airport for the longer leisure destinations for a lot of airlines. LTN and STN are still very much a LCC and regional leisure destination airport.

Actually several long-haul flights to Florida and the Caribbean, maybe Thailand/Kenya depart from London other airports: STN and LTN.
Also it seems Northern London to Birmingham area has a wealthier (and larger) potential passenger base for a PPT vacation than southern London around LGW.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
B742
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:36 am

Great news for TN!

I think that LGW would be a better base for TN in the UK than STN, idealy I think LHR would be best!

Will they ever be able to operate to LHR?

Rob!  wave 
 
incitatus
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:56 am

Hey, how about LGW-HNL-PPT???
That would kill two islands with one bird! Big grin
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BestWestern
Topic Author
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 1:59 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
Actually several long-haul flights to Florida and the Caribbean, maybe Thailand/Kenya depart from London other airports: STN and LTN.

And how many of these are scheduled. Exactly 0%

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
Also it seems Northern London to Birmingham area has a wealthier (and larger) potential passenger base for a PPT vacation than southern London around LGW.

Really? Thats why all secheduled leisure destinations operate from Gatwick or Heathrow. Amazing, isn't it?
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
AF Cabin Crew
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:50 am

Ia Orana from Tahiti !

Well I must say that this is news to us in Tahiti as we have been told by the media and by ATN itself that it is losing too much money for its size and that they are not going to spend any money, on recruiting new agents, or anything. They are trying real hard to make JFK and SYD work, they might cut some flights out as only AKL and CDG are making money or breaking even.
I will try to get some more info on this but for now I doubt it !
Ia Maitai to tatou tere !
 
planesarecool
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:58 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
Actually several long-haul flights to Florida and the Caribbean, maybe Thailand/Kenya depart from London other airports: STN and LTN.

eh? No they don't! The only long hauls to/from LTN or STN are the Eos and Maxjet flights.

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 18):
Also it seems Northern London to Birmingham area has a wealthier (and larger) potential passenger base for a PPT vacation than southern London around LGW.

Funny that, Surrey is the richest county in the UK and Gatwick is on the surrey border almost:

Quote:
The ten richest counties, however, are all in the south, with London and its surrounds dominating the top ten ranking. Household income in Surrey (the richest county, with an average income of £33,400)

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/feb2001/pov-f09.shtml
 
2travel2know
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:03 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 21):
Really? Thats why all secheduled leisure destinations operate from Gatwick or Heathrow. Amazing, isn't it?

How many of those scheduled leisure passengers are actually from London?
LHR and LGW attract more airlines because the amount of potential connecting passengers they could get.

Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 22):
Well I must say that this is news to us in Tahiti as we have been told by the media and by ATN itself that it is losing too much money for its size and that they are not going to spend any money, on recruiting new agents, or anything. They are trying real hard to make JFK and SYD work, they might cut some flights out as only AKL and CDG are making money or breaking even.

IMHO, if Air Tahiti Nui is losing too much money and wants to fly to London, better be STN or LTN for is cheaper for them to operate there than LGW.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
Skyteam10001
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:23 am

I can see how it makes sense for them : they already fly PPT-JFK, and I hear they are having trouble making that one profitable (even though it is fairly new still, I'll give them that). By making the flight extend to LGW 2 days a week, they'll be able to fill more their plane between PPT and JFK with the additional London passengers. Then on the JFK-LGW leg, they can pick up some O&D traffic. If they were indeed to be the only airline flying JFK-LGW, I believe they could get some traffic.

This is very interesting. Thanks for sharing !

A.
 
as739x
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:14 am

KiwiAndrew: Thats was funny!

SQno1: SFO is just to close to LAX. I was actually surprised TN didn't choose YVR considering they have been sniffing around up there for a stop on CDG-PPT flights.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
BestWestern
Topic Author
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 24):
LHR and LGW attract more airlines because the amount of potential connecting passengers they could get.

So, why then fly to Stansted, where the only interline opportunities would be to BUD and PRG, or to LTN, where you could interline to.... eh.... Lorient, Galway and thats about it.... apart from the IOM...
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:29 am

I don't see why people are even contemplating both LTN and STN, for the chances of TN operating to either is very mimimal indeed.

If TN only fly to London (either LHR or LGW) twice-weekly via NYC and are able to transport both passengers and cargo from the UK to the USA and vice-versa, I don't see how it'll attract a lot of interest: a twice-weekly operation, when there are innumerable alternatives (LHR, the transatantic queen, is close to LGW if TN serves LGW), isn't likely to appeal that much, unless the prices are very competitive.

If there was a city in the USA which could profitably be served from PPT and which has no non-stop connection to London, but which demands one, than that'd be better, but the chance of this being possible is slim to impossible.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:03 am

Im all for an LTN-JFK-PPT service!  bigthumbsup 

It will compliment Lutons other long haul services!  rotfl 
 
dutchjet
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:55 am

Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 22):
Ia Orana from Tahiti !

Well I must say that this is news to us in Tahiti as we have been told by the media and by ATN itself that it is losing too much money for its size and that they are not going to spend any money, on recruiting new agents, or anything. They are trying real hard to make JFK and SYD work, they might cut some flights out as only AKL and CDG are making money or breaking even.
I will try to get some more info on this but for now I doubt it !

Seems to be some conflict here - it will be interesting to see if LGW is added to the route map. I am concerned that the airline is losing money, launching the NYC route was a big risk for this airline as Tahiti is a new and unproven destination from the US East Coast.....it is far and Tahiti is expensive (although very very beautiful). Combining the JFK route with LGW is an interesting propositon, but is there any real market or demand out of London to Tahiti? (One can fly LHR-LAX-PPT on NZ.) Thats very very far for a beach holiday, and very very expensive when compared to the alternatives......it will require a lot of effort to make London a successful destination. And, even if ATN sells seats between JFK and LGW, a twice per week service on a route like this will only attract bargain travellers and the yeilds will be quite low (it will be similiar to SQ's experience on the EWR-AMS route that it operated 3 or 4 times per week.....SQ had difficulty keeping the aircraft filled, and special deals were always offered in the US and the NL at very cheap fares.)

I hope ATN can made the JFK route work......they had hoped to get a portion of the NewYork to Sydney market with the quick connection at PPR , have they been successful in that regard?

Maybe ATN would be better off opening service to SFO or YVR? The distances are more reasonable, a there are less destinations to compete with....many on the west coast are looking for alternatives to Hawaii.

ATN is a great airline and Tahiti is simply wonderful, lets hope for the best.
 
ScandinA340
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 10:36 am

Just wondering, what makes AKL profitable and SYD not for TN? Is it the cargo revenue on the AKL route (because I can't imagine pax load figures would be much higher, esp. given they compete with NZ on the AKL route, whereas QF codeshares on the SYD route)...

Curious minds...

Cheers
ScandinA340
 
BBJII
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:09 pm

I heard from a good source, sorry can't name them here, that if TN does operate to LGW, AF will launch a feeder to CDG:

arrive LGW same time - depart 1 hour later
arrive LGW 1 hour before TN depart - depart same time.

I undertsand AF want to link TN to Skyteam, and see LGW as a good focal piont.

Czech-Northwest-Delta-US-AF already serve it.


 wave 
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:24 pm

Quoting BBJII (Reply 32):
Czech-Northwest-Delta-US-AF already serve it.

US ??? I know they serve LGW - but in a Skyteam context dont you mean CO?

From the South Pacific point of view TN would be great - at the moment Skyteam is the "who?" alliance in the area as there is no sensible way to do an RTW itinerary on Skyteam starting/ending or including Australasia - not exactly vital to Skyteam I know , only about 20 million people in Australia and New Zealand combined - but they do love to travel .

Of course , if the open skies EU-US agreement goes through you could expect NW/DL/CO to upsticks from LGW and move to LHR as soon as their respective financial states permit the purchase of slots .
 
AF Cabin Crew
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:26 pm

Ia Orana all.

It was released today in the medias that ATN's load factors for the JFK run was 30% and for SYD 50% both routes are losing money.
Concerning AKL vv SYD, Tahitians have more links to New Zealand, historically as we are all from the same roots, New Zealand was populated by tahitian sailors same as Hawaii and easter Island.
Nowadays, there is a lot of traffic between AKL and PPT due to a lot of tahitians buying properties in New Zealand, sending their kids to school in New Zealand, AKL being the closest, best and most appropriate medical center, all heavy patients that can not be attended to in Papeete due to the seriousness of their illness are flown to AKL for better medical tratment for the lack of it in Tahiti in certain domains. Also ATN has made itself a name on the route being one of the first they opened. New Zealand is also the closest big country to our tiny island !

Happy Flying,

AF Cabin Crew
Ia Maitai to tatou tere !
 
dutchjet
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:40 pm

The SYD and JFK routes are rather new - the routes do need some time to mature but 30-50 per cent load factors are rather dismal and operating the flights must be costing this small (but very good airline) a fortune. SYD will probably work out in the end, but I have my doubts concerning JFK. The launch of JFK-PPT was a very big risk, PPT is an unknown and expensive vacation destination for NewYorkers (and other pax from the NE United States) and Tahiti must compete with Mexico, the Carib, Florida, Brazil, European beach resorts, etc.......all of which are closer to NYC than very beautiful Tahiti. ATN was hoping to attract the trendy "been there-done that" crowd....it does not seem as if the plan is working out. ATN also hoped to get a portion of the JFK-SYD traffic (is that market significant, QF already offers direct onestop service) to increase demand, not sure if that is working either. Its a difficult situation, not only is ATN launching a new flight, they must familiarize the travelling public with Tahiti in general and convince pax that its a destination worth travelling to.......remember that only CO offers a nonstop flight from the NYC to much more familiar and known Hawaii, and that flight works due to the power of the CO hub at EWR.

As I said before, maybe ATN would be better off focusing on other west coast cities such as SFO and YVR..........as for London, instead of extending the JFK flight to LGW, wouldnt it be easier to fly London pax to CDG to pick up ATN flights at CDG?
 
BestWestern
Topic Author
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:51 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 33):
is no sensible way to do an RTW itinerary on Skyteam starting/ending or including Australasia

I did a Skyteam business class RTW in April 2005 including Australasia.

LHR-CDG-LAX-PPT SYD-ICN-LHR

I used Star Alliance miles between PPT and SYD with Air NewZealand.

To complete the RTW, you could do a LAX - HNL - CNS (via Continental Micronesia), and then ex Australia on KL.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:01 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 36):
To complete the RTW, you could do a LAX - HNL - CNS (via Continental Micronesia), and then ex Australia on KL.

but KL dont fly ex Australia anymore , they codeshare on MH which is a non-Skyteam member .

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 36):
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 33):
is no sensible way to do an RTW itinerary on Skyteam starting/ending or including Australasia

I did a Skyteam business class RTW in April 2005 including Australasia.

LHR-CDG-LAX-PPT SYD-ICN-LHR

ooops , I should have made that "starting/ending in Australasia"- last time I checked the rules ex Aus/NZ required journey to start/end in same country - therefore an Australian could not have flown SYD-ICN-LHR-CDG-LAX-PPT and bought a separate ticket to SYD as they would be terminating their ticket in a different country . Admittedly they could fly SYD ICN LHR CDG LAX HNL GUM CNS - but not terribly convenient compared to Star Alliance SYD OZ ICN OZ LON BD CDG UA x/ORD UA LAX NZ PPT NZ x/AKL NZ SYD with no need to buy separate ticket at own expense for PPT-SYD

For New Zealanders it is even worse you can only go AKL KE ICN (fill in rest of itinerary as applicalbe ) ICN KE AKL - rather limiting for an RTW
 
BestWestern
Topic Author
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:36 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 36):
and then ex Australia on KL

Sorry - meant KE
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
B742
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:41 am

Quoting BBJII (Reply 32):
I heard from a good source, sorry can't name them here, that if TN does operate to LGW, AF will launch a feeder to CDG:

If AF were going to link up with TN in the UK then wouldn't they rather TN fly to LHR than LGW?

AF could give TN one of the slots at LHR, maybe increase the A318 flight to a A319 or A320? Can AF give TN a slot, or would it still not be possible due to Bermuda II?

Rob!  wave 
 
Kahala777
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:36 am

Quoting AF Cabin Crew (Reply 34):
It was released today in the medias that ATN's load factors for the JFK run was 30% and for SYD 50% both routes are losing money.

The advertisements on television are a joke.....

"From $1895.00 for a 1 week vacation"

As a rule of thumb, in low season you go to London for 3 nights from New York from $499.00, Paris for 3 nights from $549.00, Rome for 3 nights from $659.00. You could very easily do all three cities spread out over the winter months for the cost of one week in Tahiti. Or one could opt to go to Oahu for 1 week with air from JFK $999.00. In addition the cost of food, transport, shopping in Tahiti leaves plenty to be desired.

Perhaps, a revamp of the promotion for the JFK-PPT route is in order!

KAHALA777
 
Gemuser
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:45 am

Quoting B742 (Reply 39):
AF could give TN one of the slots at LHR, maybe increase the A318 flight to a A319 or A320? Can AF give TN a slot, or would it still not be possible due to Bermuda II?

What on earth does BII have to do with a service by a French airline? BII covers services between USA & UK by US & UK airlines ONLY. Services by airlines of other nationlities depend on the terms of their seperate treaties with the US & UK, not the US/UK treaty.

Also BII does NOT deal with slot issues. AFAIK no bilateral does.

Gemuser
DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
 
DAYflyer
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RE: Air Tahiti Nui LON -> PPT Planned For 2006

Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:11 pm

Sounds like a nice route for the 777-200LR if you ask me....NON-STOP, no JFK needed.
One Nation Under God