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United787
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737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:54 am

Assuming that Boeing's next big project after the 787 and 747-8 will be a replacement of the 737, is it possible to create a single-aisle family of aircraft that could compete competitively, economically, and efficiently in a size range from the 717 or E190 size all the way to the 757-200?

I know the A320 family tries to do that but it seems that the A318 (and 737-600) from what I have learned on A-Net, can't compete economically with the E-190 and the A321 (and 737-900) don't stand up to the 757-200.

Is this asking too much for one family of aircraft?
 
zvezda
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:55 am

The B737 replacement will almost certainly replace the B757-200 and perhaps even the B757-300. It is not likely to replace the B717, as Boeing are likely to cede this market to Bombardier and Embraer.
 
mauriceb
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:01 am

well first of all airbus doesnt do that any more than boeing... A318/737-600 A321/737-900


second , i dont think its possible to do that without significant loss of capability loss when you strecht the plane , or just downsize it.

you see that the 737-600 and A318 perform bad in theire segment because planes like EMB190/717(actually also a bit to heavy)/CRJ-900 are made for those tasks... but theire bigger brothers like A319/A320 737-700/800 perform excellent in those segments because they were made for it.. also you see some loss of performans on the 737-900 A321 , were the 757 is doing well (note that the 757 was introduced way earlier) because the frame is made for the performanses it gives....


also one aircraft family for a segment between the 100 and 220 seats is really a lot of difference . (note that the biggest version would be 120% bigger than the smallest version)
 
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:09 am

There is already speculation that the 737 replacement will have several versions. A "light" version that would replace the -600 and -700 with compomperable range. A medium version to replace the -800 and -900 series.
And finally a heavy version to replace the 752 and 753.

All models would have the same fuselage cross section but different wings.
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zvezda
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:16 am

Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 3):
There is already speculation that the 737 replacement will have several versions. A "light" version that would replace the -600 and -700 with compomperable range. A medium version to replace the -800 and -900 series.
And finally a heavy version to replace the 752 and 753.

All models would have the same fuselage cross section but different wings.

Wings are expensive to develop. I expect there will be two different wings, not three.
 
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 4:25 am

I agree. I heard there will be different wings, but not one dedicated for each one. I suspect the "light" will have it's own while the medium and heavy will share.
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1337Delta764
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:03 am

Isn't the 787-3 marketed to replace the 757-300?
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roseflyer
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:11 am

Quoting United787 (Thread starter):
Is this asking too much for one family of aircraft?

It is asking too much from one wing which is why the A321 and A318 as well as the 736 and 739 struggle to attract big sales. A 737 replacement will need two different wings to fully replace the Boeing narrowbody line up. Boeing did this when they developed the 757 and 767 and are doing again by offering two wings for the 787. I would expect a smaller wing to replace the 736/73G/738 and another one to replace the 739/752.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
The B737 replacement will almost certainly replace the B757-200 and perhaps even the B757-300. It is not likely to replace the B717, as Boeing are likely to cede this market to Bombardier and Embraer.

IMO, I wouldn't be that sure. When Boeing last spoke a few words of a Y1-type aircraft in 2004, Mullay indicated everything from 90-220 seats could be possible. All has been silent on the 737NG replacement front, but Boeing has since patented a 90-seat aircraft configuration.

I don't think Boeing has ruled out anything yet...

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
Isn't the 787-3 marketed to replace the 757-300?

The 787-3 is bigger than the 753.
 
DeltaWings
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:49 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
The B737 replacement will almost certainly replace the B757-200 and perhaps even the B757-300. It is not likely to replace the B717, as Boeing are likely to cede this market to Bombardier and Embraer.

The 737 replacement will not replace the 753. You couldn't stretch the fuselage, so it could replace the 736 to the 753.
The 753 will be replaced by a shorter 787. This shorter 787 (787-7) will therefore also directly replace the 762, and therefore also the 753. (762 and 753 is exactly the same size)
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Lemurs
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 5:57 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
The 787-3 is bigger than the 753.

The 787-800 isn't though. If I am not mistaken a typical 2-class layout would be roughly the same capacity as the 753, with maybe some more F class seats. It would also have shorter turn time due to the extra aisles. Makes you wonder if Boeing would consider a heavy duty, high cycle version of the 788 before the Y1 project would make it's debut at the high end of the seating charts. (The longest stretches have typically taken Boeing 5-10 years or longer to debut.) They've done this for the 747 after all, and I'm sure the domestic carriers who use 762's and like the low operating costs of the 753's would be very excited by this idea.
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ikramerica
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting MauriceB (Reply 2):
second , i dont think its possible to do that without significant loss of capability loss when you strecht the plane , or just downsize it.

boeing is not interested in making a plane as big as the 753 directly because customers are not interested in buying it in large numbers. It's turned out that it is best used by charter and LCC type airlines, but the length makes it a bear to board quickly, even from door 2.

Boeing is also not rushing to offer a 735/6 sized aircraft, as sales for the 736 have been horrible.

This still leaves 4 sizes.

733/G, 738, 739/752-, 752+. I say that because they could introduce a plane between the 752 and 739ER and one slightly larger than the 752 and hit a much sweeter spot in the market. Seat ranges (1-class) 149, 179, 199, 239. And offering the top 3 with door2 entry ability and with ER wings, and the botton 3 with short haul wings, you end up with 6 models that cover the planes in the heart of the 737NG/757 sales.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
Wings are expensive to develop. I expect there will be two different wings, not three.

Similar to the 757/767 program, but with only one fuselage. 2 wings, two ranges (+ER)
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:17 am

When do you think that this new 737 will be announced and when will it enter service between 10 and 15 years seem ok or not.
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1337Delta764
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:21 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
Similar to the 757/767 program, but with only one fuselage. 2 wings, two ranges (+ER)

I think that the fuselage should be a widebody. Blended winglets should be standard on all models.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:32 am

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 10):
The 787-800 isn't though.

The 787-3 and -8 have an identical fuselage. The -8 is simply a 3-class international configuration while the -3 is a 2-class domestic configuration.

Remember that both the 787-3/8 are noticably larger than the 767-300.

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 10):
If I am not mistaken a typical 2-class layout would be roughly the same capacity as the 753, with maybe some more F class seats.

No, the 787-3 would have around 50 additional economy seats, even using 2+4+2 seats that are way bigger than 757 seats. Using 757 seats (3+3+3), you could pack an extra 100 economy seats from the 753:

787-3 = 20/276 (36" F/32" Y)
757-300 = 12/231 (F/Y)
757-300 = 276 (All Y)

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 10):
Makes you wonder if Boeing would consider a heavy duty, high cycle version of the 788 before the Y1 project would make it's debut at the high end of the seating charts.

I don't understand. If you are using an aircraft on high-cycle routes, the routes are inherently short, thus the 787-3 is adequet. I'm sure the 787-8 is fully capable of being "misused" on shorter routes as many airlines do with todays long-haul aircraft.

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 10):
They've done this for the 747 after all, and I'm sure the domestic carriers who use 762's and like the low operating costs of the 753's would be very excited by this idea.

There are very few 762 in the U.S. domestic market any more. UA and AA have both retired theirs. CO only uses their 762ER internationally, leaving DL.
 
zvezda
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:52 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
Isn't the 787-3 marketed to replace the 757-300?

The B787-3, and B787-8 which is the same size, are much larger than the B757-300.

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 7):
Boeing did this when they developed the 757 and 767 and are doing again by offering two wings for the 787.

The B787s all have the same wing. Only the wingtips are different.

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 9):
The 753 will be replaced by a shorter 787.

Most unlikely. Both Airbus and Boeing have learned that shrinks are not economical.
 
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:00 am

The 737NG replacement will cover the market 125-225 seat market (typical 2 class configuration).......meaning everything from the 737-700 to the 757-200. Four fuselage lengths are expected with two different wings. The maximum range is likely to be in the 4000 mile range, but certain variants will be more optimized for shorter haul services (like the 787-3 variant).

As pointed out above, the 753 will be indirectly replaced by the 787-3 - while its true that the 787-3 is larger than the 753, it will cover the same types of missions for which the 753 was intended. The 753 was not a big seller (it came to the market too late, just at the wrong time) since it could not find a market, although its one hell of an aircraft and its economics are superb.

Its unlikely that Boeing will offer a 100-110 seat version of the 737NG replacement......the 736 is a variant that has had trouble finding its marketplace since airlines are not very interested in flying the long thins routes for which it is omptimized (A318 sales have also been less than stellar) and many of the routes once flown by 732/735 sized aircraft are now handled by regional jets and the new generation of smaller airliners (such as the E170 family) with far better operating economics.

This will be a hugely important program for Boeing - this new family will cover Boeing's entire single aisle product lineup and will hopefully result in a huge number of sales. Look for the new airliner to incorporate all of the lessons learned and technology developed for the 787 aircraft and then some, with a huge emphasis on superior economics, commonality and the enviornment.
 
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting United787 (Thread starter):
Assuming that Boeing's next big project after the 787 and 747-8 will be a replacement of the 737, is it possible to create a single-aisle family of aircraft that could compete competitively, economically, and efficiently in a size range from the 717 or E190 size all the way to the 757-200?

Boeing mentioned that a future 737 design will come in several different sizes, if the 787 preview is a preview to what a future 737 could look like, then yes.

If the 737 comes in several different sizes, with the smaller 737 replacing the 717 and if they can improve economics maybe even start invading the RJ aircraft.

Just my guess that the smaller 737 would have a different wing and would be a true small jet, rather than a shrunk design.

Looking at the future, both Airbus & Boeing are going to try get the market back that the RJ type aircraft took from them.....
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siromega
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:26 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 14):
There are very few 762 in the U.S. domestic market any more. UA and AA have both retired theirs. CO only uses their 762ER internationally, leaving DL.

And in a week (starting Dec 1) DL wont have their 762 in service at all anymore.

I still think the new A/Cs will be in a 2+2+2 config or a 3+3 with a 1.5 or 1.75x isle width so deplaning/enplaning is quicker (especially on the larger 150+ seat a/c). NW and other LCCs want quicker turns - the planes dont make money just sitting on the ground.
 
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:48 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 14):
The 787-3 and -8 have an identical fuselage. The -8 is simply a 3-class international configuration while the -3 is a 2-class domestic configuration.

Well the fuselage is bit stronger for the -8, isn't it?

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
The B737 replacement will almost certainly replace the B757-200 and perhaps even the B757-300. It is not likely to replace the B717, as Boeing are likely to cede this market to Bombardier and Embraer.



Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 16):
Its unlikely that Boeing will offer a 100-110 seat version of the 737NG replacement......the 736 is a variant that has had trouble finding its marketplace since airlines are not very interested in flying the long thins routes for which it is omptimized (A318 sales have also been less than stellar) and many of the routes once flown by 732/735 sized aircraft are now handled by regional jets and the new generation of smaller airliners (such as the E170 family) with far better operating economics.

I believe there was off the record but official speculation of the successor narrowbody being offered in 2 to 3 fuselage widths. I took this to mean that different configurations were being considered (some combination of 2+3, 3+3, 3+wideaisle+3 or even 2+2+2).

I don't know how much sense it makes to cede the market to B&E. That doesn't mean that Boeing would manufacture in the US, but Boeing getting the profits for selling these 100 seaters into US market is better than someone else getting the profits and using that to jump start a drive into ever larger jets.
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United787
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 12:54 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
Boeing is also not rushing to offer a 735/6 sized aircraft, as sales for the 736 have been horrible.

Hasn't sales been horrible because the economics are bad, not because there isn't a market for that size aircraft?
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:03 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 19):
Well the fuselage is bit stronger for the -8, isn't it?

They have different layers of tape (the -3 having fewer), but the fuselage size and floor area are identical.
 
gigneil
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:08 pm

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 9):
You couldn't stretch the fuselage, so it could replace the 736 to the 753.

Schuur you could... the benefits of composites include the ability to provide fuselage configurations previously impossible due to structural strain.

I hear tell that if the wing could support it, they could easily stretch the 787 to A340-600 proportions. Clearly, the A340 already stretches a greater percentage from A340-200 to A340-600 than the 737 would from -600 to 757-300.

Quoting Lemurs (Reply 10):
The 787-800 isn't though.

Don't be confused... they're precisely the same length and same cabin area.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 19):
Well the fuselage is bit stronger for the -8, isn't it?

Indeed you're quite correct.

N
 
ikramerica
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:31 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 20):
Hasn't sales been horrible because the economics are bad, not because there isn't a market for that size aircraft?

Yes, but that's the point. To make a plane that could compete all the way from 130-280 1-class seats would mean that the smallest would also likely be the least economical.

While the original 737-100 then the 737-500 were based on a wing optimized for it, and the 732/3/4 were stretches of it, the new wing of the 737NG was optimized for the 73G/738, and the 736 and 739 were bonus models, one that was too high in cost and the other that was short it range and 1-class capacity.

One can expect that even with 2 wings, the smaller wing would be optimized for the 73G/738 sized aircraft and the second wing for the 739/752 aircraft, though a longhaul 738 would also be an option based on the changing secondary non-stop markets being pioneered today.

Imagine US-EU routes where a 752 size aircraft can run during the summer but a 738 sized aircraft runs it in the winter when capacity is less important, yet still be profitable.
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DfwRevolution
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:42 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 20):
Hasn't sales been horrible because the economics are bad, not because there isn't a market for that size aircraft?

In regards to Reply 23, one prospect of composite is that it broadens this "sweet spot" of performance, perhaps allowing peripheral variants to be more economical. The 787-3/8/9 is likely just the tip of the iceberg in terms of flexible production.
 
abirda
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:09 pm

Not to get off topic, but everyone seems to be spouting inaccuracies regarding various 787 specifications. Get your facts straight, folks!

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 21):
They have different layers of tape (the -3 having fewer), but the fuselage size and floor area are identical.

I believe the 787-3 will have thicker skin because it is designed to do more cycles, more quickly in its life. The 787-8 is approaching C-market range capabilities and will be able to get by with thinner skin.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
The B787s all have the same wing. Only the wingtips are different.

783 Wingspan: 170 ft
788 Wingspan: 197 ft

783 MTOW: 360,000 lbs.
788 MTOW: 476,000 lbs.

The nearly thirty foot wingspan difference and 116,000 pound MTOW difference means wingtips aren't the only difference between the wings. It's not a question of whether they slap on blended winglets or raked wingtips at the end of the production line. And the MTOW difference can be largely attributed to fuel capacity, which comes primarily from the wings. I won't claim to know the exact answer. Finances would seem to dictate that the wings not be wholly different designs. Root plug, perhaps?

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 14):
The 787-3 and -8 have an identical fuselage. The -8 is simply a 3-class international configuration while the -3 is a 2-class domestic configuration.

There's more to it than that. As mentioned above, the -3 and -8 denote fundamentally different aircraft with respect to MTOW. Boeing puts the 788's seating estimations in three-class format because it is far more likely to be configured like that than the 783, and vice versa.

It really gets to me that people try to pass off their own misconceptions and lack of knowledge as fact on this forum. No one wants misinformation here. If people were more concerned with the facts than they seem to be with upping their post count, we wouldn't see this so much. How hard is it to look things up before you try to sound knowledgeable?

[Edited 2005-11-26 06:12:37]
 
zvezda
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:24 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 22):
I hear tell that if the wing could support it, they could easily stretch the 787 to A340-600 proportions.

Certainly true, though the landing gear limits the B787's MTOW before the wing does.

Quoting AbirdA (Reply 25):
I believe the 787-3 will have thicker skin because it is designed to do more cycles, more quickly in its life.

Sorry, no. The B787-8 has more layers than the B787-3 to accommodate the higher MTOW.

Quoting AbirdA (Reply 25):
783 Wingspan: 170 ft
788 Wingspan: 197 ft

783 MTOW: 360,000 lbs.
788 MTOW: 476,000 lbs.

The nearly thirty foot wingspan difference and 116,000 pound MTOW difference means wingtips aren't the only difference between the wings. It's not a question of whether they slap on blended winglets or raked wingtips at the end of the production line. And the MTOW difference can be largely attributed to fuel capacity, which comes primarily from the wings. I won't claim to know the exact answer. Finances would seem to dictate that the wings not be wholly different designs. Root plug, perhaps?

Sorry, you're wrong again. There is no root plug. Also the B787-3 and the B787-8 have identical fuel capacity. The only difference is blended winglets vs raked wingtips. However, the B787-8 can take off with a full fuel load and respectable payload. The B787-3 cannot take off with a full fuel load and no payload. Hence the difference in range. The B787-8 is fuel-limited, while the B787-3 is weight-limited.

Quoting AbirdA (Reply 25):
It really gets to me that people try to pass off their own misconceptions and lack of knowledge as fact on this forum. No one wants misinformation here. If people were more concerned with the facts than they seem to be with upping their post count, we wouldn't see this so much. How hard is it to look things up before you try to sound knowledgeable?

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SthPacific787
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:30 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 19):
I believe there was off the record but official speculation of the successor narrowbody being offered in 2 to 3 fuselage widths. I took this to mean that different configurations were being considered (some combination of 2+3, 3+3, 3+wideaisle+3 or even 2+2+2).

Now you're talking. Boeing of course have patented the concept/basic design of a 'narrow wide-body' surely for this reason.

Quicker turnarounds, no middle seats (2+2+2), a more useful cargo hold... and I'm sure there must be more. Combine 787 tecnologies and we have a new class buster. All we need is for Boeing to biuld it.
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zvezda
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:36 pm

Quoting SthPacific787 (Reply 27):
Quicker turnarounds, no middle seats (2+2+2), a more useful cargo hold... and I'm sure there must be more. Combine 787 tecnologies and we have a new class buster.

One of the nice features of the composite fuselage is that it doesn't need to be exactly circular to be structurally efficient. I expect the B737/B757 replacement to accommodate single-file LD3s yet retain 3-3 seating -- with a 24-26 inch aisle and 18 or 18.5 inch wide seats.

I believe a 3-3 configuration with one very wide aisle can be boarded faster than a 2-2-2 configuration with two narrow aisles. The reason is that the one wide aisle will not get blocked, but the two narrow aisles will both get blocked (at different locations).
 
SthPacific787
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:43 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 28):
I believe a 3-3 configuration with one very wide aisle can be boarded faster than a 2-2-2 configuration with two narrow aisles. The reason is that the one wide aisle will not get blocked, but the two narrow aisles will both get blocked (at different locations).

You are probably right Zvezda. But I guess I'm rooting for something different just for it to be different. 3-3 is the same old. Never let practicality get in the way of dreams hey?
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zvezda
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:49 pm

Quoting SthPacific787 (Reply 29):
You are probably right Zvezda.

That's why A.net pays me the big money!  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
 
SthPacific787
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:17 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 30):
Quoting SthPacific787 (Reply 29):
You are probably right Zvezda.

That's why A.net pays me the big money!

PROBABLY right. Hope you're not though. If so, does A.net get their monopoly money back?
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ckfred
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RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:57 pm

I would hate to see Boeing cede the 100-seat plane market to the CRJs and the E190s, especially since the 737 was initially designed as a 100-seat airplane.

Here's some reasoning why Boeing should stay in the 100-seat market.

When AA signed its last contract with Boeing in the late 90s, the belief was that the F100s, MD-80s, and 727-200s would be replaced with the -600s, -700s, and the -800s, respectively.

For various reasons, that whole plan is be revised, but AA's problem now is that it has no 100-seat airplane. That means that AA has to work schedules using ERJs, CRJs, and MD-80s, which presents problems at ORD with the "voluntary" restrictions, as well as using RJs with no first-class cabins on routes with heavy business traffic.

Right now, AA's sole option, in terms of buying an aircraft that is a good replacement for the F100, in terms of size and range, is the Embrear 190.

The problem is that the 190 is so different from the 135/140/145, that it counts as another aircraft type. AA has been trying to reduce the number of types that it flies.

If Boeing could develop a plane within the next narrowbody family that can fly say 100 to 120 people on short-to-medium routes (200nm to 1250nm), AA, as well as other operators of the 737, will take a serious look.

By the same token, the larger versions of the family will need to seat 140 to 200 passengers and be able to fly transcontinental distances.

If Boeing is considering designing two different wings, then it ought to consider the following:

110 seats with the "light" wing only
135 seats with the "light" or "heavy" wing
160 seats with the "heavy" wing only
185 seats with the "heavy" wing only

Being able to consolidate all flying between 100 and 200 seats in 2, 3, 4 or even all 5 versions of a single-aisle aircraft would help airlines in keeping down maintenance, training, and crew staffing costs.
 
grantcv
Posts: 410
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:28 pm

RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:18 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 28):
Quicker turnarounds, no middle seats (2+2+2), a more useful cargo hold... and I'm sure there must be more. Combine 787 tecnologies and we have a new class buster. All we need is for Boeing to biuld it.

I can't imagine how the overhead bins can be made to work on a 2+2+2 aisle aircraft. It seems the need is to go to bigger bins as carry-ons have grown. I would hate to have the MD-80 style tiny bins on a new generation of plane.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:01 pm

Grantcv, I didn't write that. SthPacific787 did in reply 27. You clicked the wrong "Quote Selected Text" button.
 
SthPacific787
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 6:25 am

RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:04 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 34):
Grantcv, I didn't write that. SthPacific787 did in reply 27. You clicked the wrong "Quote Selected Text" button.

Zvezda, you didn't write it but you agree with it, right  cheeky 
Aussie Based Air NZ 787 fan
 
EnviroTO
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 pm

RE: 737 Replacement - Can It Replace 717 And 752

Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:29 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 8):
All has been silent on the 737NG replacement front, but Boeing has since patented a 90-seat aircraft configuration.



Quoting SthPacific787 (Reply 27):
Boeing of course have patented the concept/basic design of a 'narrow wide-body' surely for this reason.

Patents are out of control. When is it going to stop? Soon a group of 20 boyscouts won't be able to sit around the campfire because someone patents a 20 seat circle arrangement. Patents should be abolished. Copyrights and trademarks are enough isn't it? I can't believe that an airline would be restricted on a seating arrangement due to a patent. Thats nuts!

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 1):
The B737 replacement will almost certainly replace the B757-200 and perhaps even the B757-300. It is not likely to replace the B717, as Boeing are likely to cede this market to Bombardier and Embraer.

I agree. The next 737 will probably seek to replace the 757 at the higher end therefore making it not as competitive in the below 130 seat range. The 757 was a very successful aircraft and curently there is no exact replacement for it right now. Probably an aircraft in the 737-800 size would be their base with one shrink and two stretches. I would expect an increase in range as well. A "narrow wide-body" will be a tough sell unless it is some sort of flying wing... widening the plane without adding seats decreases efficiency. A 2+2+2 layout would make no sense to me because the efficiency would be lower and there would be no additional seats in the cross section... one would need to make a lot of revenue from cargo to make that work. If the boarding and unboarding time is the bigger issue then more airlines would be pushing for jetways to the rear door. Adding one more seat gives you a 2+3+2 which is already back to the size of the 767 cross-section.

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