pilottim747
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Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 2:29 pm

Two of the nine Mesaba RJ85s came back from the the desert (MZJ) on Wednesday. Flight 3691 and 3692 arrived back in MSP in the afternoon. Did NW get better leases on these planes and returning back to service? Will we be seen more planes coming back from the desert? RJ85s going back into service with XJ would be excellent news!

pilottim747
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cbphoto
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:12 pm

Good News indeed! Lets hope it is the return of the ARJ!!!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
flypdx
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:20 pm

I didn't even know that any of them were sent into storage. I thought that was happening next month.
 
northwestair
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:00 am

I believe we have had 2 of the nine come thru OKC as Fuel Stops on their way to the desert.
I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
 
Cadet57
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:13 pm

Quoting Northwestair (Reply 3):
I believe we have had 2 of the nine come thru OKC as Fuel Stops on their way to the desert.

no they're goin the other way
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
northwestair
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:52 pm

No kidding, I looked up an ship 503 was one of the A/C that went back to MSP. AS of Late this evening it was still in the MTM Hangar in MSP.
I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:57 pm

What are the chances that Mesaba could be picking them up for UAX flying, specifically ASE?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
uadc8contrail
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:13 pm

eric,
when u see that cash cow sitting in the rocky mtns 45 minutes from glenwood springs on hwy 82....i can not see ual flying anything other than the arjs that flew for nwa........im in agreement with you and have stated from the get go that go jets or skywest will take them on behalf of ual.....my money is on go-jets
bus driver.......move that bus:)
 
DLKAPA
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:28 pm

You don't think Mesaba would be happy to pick up the flying once more? They could do it couldn't they (or does scope clauses with NW prevent them)?
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
redtailmsp
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:31 pm

Yes indeed, two of the RJ85s are back from Marana. Nine were originally ferried to Marana - some operating passenger flights into OKC, then positioning to Marana, others operating direct MSP-Marana or DTW-Marana. These flights all occured around the end of Oct / early Nov. The following aircraft were sent to Marana - fleet numbers 7501/03/05/06/08/09/10/11/12.
The following two have returned Marana-MSP - 7510 operating as flt 3690 on Nov 23rd, and 7503 as flt 3691 on Nov 23rd. One weird thing I noted in the routings of Mesaba Rj85s, there is one at YYC, fleet number 7523. which operated flt 3691-17 Nov Msp-YYC, and it is still there. I have no idea why it is there - anyone any insights?
 
geg2rap
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:45 pm

yyc is where mesaba has avro heavy mtx done, seen lots of msp-rap-yyc over the years.
 
pilottim747
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:46 am

Quoting Geg2rap (Reply 10):
yyc is where mesaba has avro heavy mtx done, seen lots of msp-rap-yyc over the years.

Sure enough. Looks like a company called Avmax Group Inc. does heavy maintenance for XJ in YYC.

pilottim747
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FlyGuyClt
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:18 am

I guess Mesaba could do flying for other mainline carriers. However, NWA ownes the Avro's. So, needless to say. Big Pappa probibly won't let that happen.

Safe Flying  Smile
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AirRyan
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:54 am

I just found out that NW plans to take off the DC-9-30's, already down 2 nonstops from 3 MSP-AUS and in their great infinite wisdom are putting just two ARJ's on the MSP-AUS route while going with 3 A319's for MSP-SAT - someone must be looking for their little red bike in the basement of the Alamo because this is just not wise! Someone needs to do a little demograpic survey of the Greater Austin area, NW is making a big mistake here!
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:57 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 13):
NW is making a big mistake here!

If both those ARJ's go out completely full every day, then you might have a point. However, if there are any empty seats at all on the planes, it doesn't make sense to offer more capacity. NW is in no economic position to dump extra capacity on random markets for the sake of "frequency"
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
AirRyan
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:18 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 14):
If both those ARJ's go out completely full every day, then you might have a point. However, if there are any empty seats at all on the planes, it doesn't make sense to offer more capacity. NW is in no economic position to dump extra capacity on random markets for the sake of "frequency"

Your right, frequency isn't quite the correct word - they simply won't offering enoguh avaialble seats with just two ARJ's! AUS can fill up 3 A319's just fine but there is no way SAT needs 3 A319's to AUS's 2 ARJ's!
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:33 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 15):

Your right, frequency isn't quite the correct word - they simply won't offering enoguh avaialble seats with just two ARJ's! AUS can fill up 3 A319's just fine but there is no way SAT needs 3 A319's to AUS's 2 ARJ's!

So you know for certain that all MSP-AUS and (AUS-MSP) flights go out completely full? I find it difficult to believe that NW would do this at random.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:43 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 15):
AUS can fill up 3 A319's just fine

A yield issue, perhaps?
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AirRyan
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:51 am

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 16):
So you know for certain that all MSP-AUS and (AUS-MSP) flights go out completely full? I find it difficult to believe that NW would do this at random.

Yes, this is kind of disturbing. I see that NW is rightfully so doing away with the FAR-LAS A319 nonstop on 4Jan but from the gate agent at AUS was telling me, they have an average 90% load factor out of AUS and it was basically a station manager from SAT who was in charge of both SAT and AUS who fought for SAT and not so much for AUS.

I'd like to see the tangible data as well that those that be used to make this decision, AUS has a very lucrative and booming economy and population (Dell, 3M, Samsung, AMD, UofTexas,) and it doesn't make sense why they would be willing to concede AUS if they weren't willing to do so with SAT.
 
airtran737
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:55 am

Saw an Avro pull into the gate in MKE yesterday afternoon. Good to see them back even if it is for only a short while.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
pilottim747
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:22 am

Quoting AirRyan (Reply 18):
I'd like to see the tangible data as well that those that be used to make this decision, AUS has a very lucrative and booming economy and population (Dell, 3M, Samsung, AMD, UofTexas,) and it doesn't make sense why they would be willing to concede AUS if they weren't willing to do so with SAT.

ARJs are great for routes with lots of business travelers but fewer leisure travelers. ARJs, DC9s and A319s all have the 16 first class seats. Maybe NW wants the first class capacity but doesnt need a whole tons of seats in coach.

pilottim747
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Mikey711MN
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:42 am

In my extensive experience of taking MSP-AUS flights, I can personally say that while the evening AUS-MSP flight is typically only about half-full (on a DC9), all other legs I've travelled--any MSP-AUS flight at any time of day with any equipment and particularly the morning ARJ AUS-MSP flight--have been packed. And if what I (read: my company) paid for the trips are any indicator, yields were quite good.

So my guess is that NW did do their homework here and is simply getting even higher yields out of this route and are perhaps routing connecting traffic through the existing legs to/from MEM and DTW.

-Mike
I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
 
AirRyan
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:22 pm

Quoting Pilottim747 (Reply 20):
ARJs are great for routes with lots of business travelers but fewer leisure travelers. ARJs, DC9s and A319s all have the 16 first class seats. Maybe NW wants the first class capacity but doesnt need a whole tons of seats in coach.

NW definately looks for the biz traveller as much as any airline, it's part of the reason why they are one the last carriers to still prefer 3 day mininum stays while those like AA and CO have generally conceded to 1 day mins.

This available F svc on the ARJ's would seem to satisfy their contract with 3M for available 1st class seats and while it will be tight, it looks like they will be flying a 757 once a day to MEM and then connecting to AUS with a DC9 amd CRJ.

Nevertheless, this will just make it all the more difficult for anyone travelling into and out of AUS as the availability will be significantly reduced and that means less opportunity for not just those going to MSP but everyone connecting to somewhere else - I still think it's an incredibly unwise move especially considering some of the other routes NW has where they are not utilitizing an A319 let alone a DC-9.
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:27 pm

I think the movement of airplanes has to do more with lease negotiations than anything else. And from what I've heard, it's not going that well. According to Capt. Ed, XJ fleet going forward doesn't appear to include Avro's after June or July of 06. The two scenarios he spoke of both had the Avros leaving. One scenario had 15 CRJ's coming to XJ by the end of '06. Other scenario had the 2 CRJ's returned, flying only Saabs, and "working with MAIR to purchase other aircraft".
 
northwestair
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:30 am

Well ship 503 is now in revenue service. It came thru OKC on the 26 or 27Nov. It had an INOP APU, but no other Major Maintnance Issues.
I don't care who you fly just as long as you fly
 
ejmmsu
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:18 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 23):
Other scenario had the 2 CRJ's returned, flying only Saabs, and "working with MAIR to purchase other aircraft".

If the powers that be were smart, this "other aircraft" would be Dash-8-Q400's. These will carry 69 passengers with considerably better economics. Paired with the planned "NEWCO" flying E-Jets, NW will be in position to make money again. The Avros (in their current configuration) and the DC-9's are simply to expensive to operate.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:07 pm

Agreed, but until NWA decides what role they want Mesaba to play in the future, I'm not sure MAIR should be spending money on airplanes.
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:45 am

Looks like one is headed back West, fboweb.com is showing MES3691 about to land in Marana from MSP.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
tattvc
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:11 am

NOOOOOOO!!!!! BRING THEM BACK MESABA!! Love those planes, and the only way for me to get to ASE due to the free tickets I get on NW due to daddy's miles. anyway, if people from NW can keep us posted as to weather they will really be taken out of the fleet completely, please return and keep us posted.

TatTVC
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Tim
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pilottim747
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:45 am

Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 27):
Looks like one is headed back West, fboweb.com is showing MES3691 about to land in Marana from MSP.

Sure enough. They just swap up aircraft?

pilottim747
Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
 
LUVRSW
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:04 am

Mesaba sueing NW didn't do them any favors. NW should axe all the AVROS, yank back the CRJ's, and let them fly SAAB's only.
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba RJ-85s Coming Back From The Desert?!

Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:38 am

Quoting LUVRSW (Reply 30):
Mesaba sueing NW didn't do them any favors. NW should axe all the AVROS, yank back the CRJ's, and let them fly SAAB's only.

Yeah, just like NWA stiffing Mesaba for money due for flying was a smart idea. Nearly $30 million, on a contract signed less than a month before NWA filed CH11. I thought Mesaba should've stopped flying until they got paid by NWA. All tohse upper midwest cities that rely on NWA as their sole air link to the world would've screamed, NWA would've paid instead of facing the bad publicity.