CV990
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TAP New Long-haul Fleet According To TAP News.

Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:58 pm

Hi!

Today I went in the TAP home page to see if they had any news already about their new long-haul fleet plan and here's what I got. I'll just put some highlights:

1 - TAP ordered 10 A350 plus 5 options
2 - Delivery date from 2013 till 2015
3 - Meanwhile, until the arrival of the A350 ordered 7 A330-200 plus 1 "has an addicional reforcement" ( this is the term TAP used... )
4 - Boeing offered the 787 but they could only deliver from 2011 and didn't have any intermediate model.

Any comments?
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
georgiabill
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RE: TAP New Long-haul Fleet According To TAP News.

Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:02 pm

Personally I think airbus won this order do to the fact the crews, mechanics and ground staff were familiar with airbus products. Thus the costs were less than retraining for Boeings.
 
airbazar
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RE: TAP New Long-haul Fleet According To TAP News.

Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting CV990 (Thread starter):
4 - Boeing offered the 787 but they could only deliver from 2011 and didn't have any intermediate model.

Pretty much what a lot of people had predicted. Boeing would have a tough time selling TAP the 787 because TAP needs airplanes, NOW.
 
CV990
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RE: TAP New Long-haul Fleet According To TAP News.

Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:37 am

Hi!

Thanks for your feedback. I agree with you two said but I have to stress something TAP had a very good and healthy with Boeing during many years, I don't know if Boeing had an intermediate model to offer TAP I think the tender would be hard for Airbus! But Airbus offered the A330-200 and TAP had "an eye" on that model since maybe 2000/2001 and here in Portugal it was said that TAP would replace the A310-300 and the A340-300 by the A330-200.... but I'm sure when Airbus,even before we knew, aproached TAP they probably showed first hand the A350 to them has an evolution, and like that TAP would not say "no"!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
dutchjet
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RE: TAP New Long-haul Fleet According To TAP News.

Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:56 am

TAP wants and needs the A332s now - its the right airplane for TAP's route network and will allow TAP to increase services on the lucrative LIS-Brazil services (where TAP has been very successful) and also allow TAP to begin phasing out its A310 fleet. The A332/A340 combo will be an effective solution in the medium term future (until TAP gets its A350s).

As much as I was hoping for TAP to go with the 787, Boeing had little to offer until the 787s could be delivered.....its a bit late in the game to expect TAP to go with the 767 family and the 777 is too much airplane for TAP's network. TAP would first have to retrain its crews on the 767 (which is a bit small for the routes that TAP will fly with the aircraft) and then move on to a new technology aircraft in the 787. The A310/A340 to A332/A340 to A350 transition will be much more effecient and cost effective for TAP.

TAP is a "smaller" European airlines, and has done well in recent years, but costs and effeciency are major concerns....the Airbus order makes sense.

Its interesting that the rumors that TAP would acquire second hand A330s were incorrect.....what is the delivery schedule for the TAP A332s? And, does TAP have any specific arrangement with Airbus concerning swapping the A332s for the ordered A350s? For example, will Airbus take the A332s back in trade for the A350s in 2015?
 
CV990
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RE: TAP New Long-haul Fleet According To TAP News.

Sun Nov 27, 2005 6:24 am

Hi Dutchjet!

Here in Portugal we have two dates, one given by Airbus that says that TAP will get the first A330-200's by 2007. But in the portuguese news media it is said that TAP will get the first A330-200's by early 2006, so this is kind of a mistery. One thing that I'm quite sure is regarding engines for both A330 and A350, I'm 99% sure that TAP will keep going on with the GE!!! Isn't KL a big GE supporter too???
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
FlyPEGASUS
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RE: TAP New Long-haul Fleet According To TAP News.

Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:49 am

Hi Dutchjet,

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
Its interesting that the rumors that TAP would acquire second hand A330s were incorrect.....

The fact that TAP will get only in 2007 new built A330, doesn't mean that others 332 can't came earlier. For what I've heard TAP will get the first 2nd hand A332 (in leasing) in January 2006. Probably as a interim solution before the first delivery from Airbus in 2007.

For what I know A310 CS-TEZ (or is it CS-TEW?) will end it's career at TAP this December and I also know that TAP is recruiting a lot of new cabin crew elements and Pilots, so I think that we will shortly see (in 2006) an increase in the fleet. Probably leasing 3 or 5 A332 as already discussed in previous forums. Rumors stated they could come from Blue Wings and Lufthansa. Let's wait and see.

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 4):
And, does TAP have any specific arrangement with Airbus concerning swapping the A332s for the ordered A350s? For example, will Airbus take the A332s back in trade for the A350s in 2015?

Yes! That was in fact stated by TAP's CEO Mr. Fernando Pinto on an interview in Toulouse to a portuguese TV channel last Monday.

Best regards
 
FlyPEGASUS
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RE: TAP New Long-haul Fleet According To TAP News.

Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:26 am

Hi CV990

Quoting CV990 (Reply 5):
Here in Portugal we have two dates, one given by Airbus that says that TAP will get the first A330-200's by 2007. But in the portuguese news media it is said that TAP will get the first A330-200's by early 2006, so this is kind of a mystery.

In an interesting post from AntónioJoséAvelar in:
http://www.luchtzak.be/postp120806.html
he mentions that TAP will receive 3 A332 in 2006. The first in January followed by two others in February and March.
(Just out of curiosity he also mentions some A320 to arrive in 2006)

Also in the following article of "diário Económico" (sorry only in portuguese) three A330 are mentioned for 2006.
http://www.diarioeconomico.com/edici...empresas/pt/desarrollo/592984.html

In my opinion these 3 A332 mentioned for 2006 are a intermediate solution before those 7 A330 mentioned at the "Airbus site" start to arrive. Can it be?

Best Regards

[Edited 2005-11-27 21:30:04]
 
dutchjet
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RE: TAP New Long-haul Fleet According To TAP News.

Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:35 am

Thanks for the info, gentlemen.

The ex-BlueWings and ex-LH A332s (which are all actually ex-SN aircraft I believe and have identical specification) were the aircraft that I thought would go to TAP as the interim measure.......I remember reading that one or more of the ex-BlueWings aircarft was already in the process of being re-registered to TAP. Will TAP take these five A332s in addition to the seven newly ordered airplanes....making for a fleet of twelve A332s in total? Or, will the five second hand examples be leased short-term until the newly build A332s are delivered and in service?

What I am thinking is: could it be that TAP will operate twelve A332s and retire the A310 and A343 fleet......and concentrate on a single long haul type? The A332s can operate any and all of TAP's longhaul routes without any problems, and the slight range advantage (if any) and slightly higher seating capacity of the A343 is not really needed for TAP's route system.

[Edited 2005-11-27 21:37:16]
 
FlyPEGASUS
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RE: TAP New Long-haul Fleet According To TAP News.

Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:07 am

Hi Dutchjet

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 8):
could it be that TAP will operate twelve A332s and retire the A310 and A343 fleet......and concentrate on a single long haul type?

I think TAP will have a single long haul type only with the arrival of all A350.
These 3 or 5 A330 that we mentioned I think they will be around only until new built A330 start to arrive from Airbus.

1st - These 3 or 5 A332 are P&W and I believe TAP will go all GE, so this can indicate an interim solution.
2nd - I think TAP will keep A343 flying until they are replaced by A350.
3rd - I Haven't heard yet any news concerning A310 be completely retired from service. It's likely to happen but still no official info on that.

But that is just my opinion, based in some official news and some discussion forums. Only someone with more info from inside TAP can answer that clearly.

Best Regards
 
CV990
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RE: TAP New Long-haul Fleet According To TAP News.

Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:21 am

Hi!

Well if infact TAP receives any Airbus A330-200 starting early 2006 ( it has to be that way if TAP wants to start using them for the summer season that all of know start on 1st. April ) these must be 2nd. and ones and with the track that we did the only available ones will be 3 from Bluewings and 2 from LH, all of them with P&W, ex: SWISSAIR AND ex: SN, but if it's like that then I quite sure that they will stay for 1 year not more than that and I'm also sure that during 2006 TAP will start to prepare their maintenance/engineering departments to get spares and all that stuff. Also at least 2 or 3 A310's will leave before the summer starts and in my opinion besides CS-TEZ ex: Aeroflot maybe the any of the other ones that didn't got the new image yet, so CS-TEX and TEI will stay until TAP get's they own GE powered A330-200's. Regarding the A340-300's, they are still with 9/10 years old so they can easely stay untill TAP starts to get the A350's from 2013, at that time they will be 17/18 years old, the same age has the A310-300 are now, so I'm sure that one the first A350 arrives it will certainly replace the A340-300 in their routes.
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!