Halibut
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A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Sun Nov 27, 2005 8:59 pm

At the bottom of the artile I noticed this paragraphy . Forgeard without doubt is one smart cookie . However , I do not agree that the A350 is the most modnern a/c of this century . The multple CEO situation is also discussed .


http://www.itp.net/business/features/details.php?id=3463&category=

“If you look at two recent initiatives within the industry; the A350 and the 747-8 they are quite different. The A350 is a totally new aircraft — totally new — the wings are new, the fuselage is new and even the engines are new,” he claims resolutely. “It is the most modern aircraft of this century and we spent US$5.1 billion on its development. The 747-8 is not much different from the 747 — it is just a little stretched — that’s it,” he adds.

Forgeard is united in this belief with Thomas Enders, who has been his co-CEO at EADS since the former Airbus boss won a power struggle for the leadership of the group and unseated former chairman and chief executive, Philippe Camus in June. EADS has been run by two co-CEOs since the group was established in 2000, with one nominated by the company’s French shareholders and the other nominated by Germany’s DaimlerChrysler AG, which holds a 33% stake.

Media reports claim Forgeard would like to see the company's two CEO system abolished in favour of having a single chief executive structure in a move that EADS’ German shareholders have seen as an attempt to engineer a French dominated management team.

But the Frenchman predictably denies this, saying the two men have a good working relationship.


Halibut

[Edited 2005-11-27 13:02:50]
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flyabr
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:17 pm

what does most modern mean? i'd still say the A350 is not as "technologically" advanced as the 787...but who really cares!!

[Edited 2005-11-27 13:21:21]

[Edited 2005-11-27 13:22:29]
 
Glom
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Sun Nov 27, 2005 9:47 pm

Forgeard must have missed the memo about the 748 using thesame engines as the A350. I guess this means bye bye commonality.
 
lehpron
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Sun Nov 27, 2005 10:48 pm

Quoting FlyABR (Reply 1):
what does most modern mean? i'd still say the A350 is not as "technologically" advanced as the 787...but who really cares!!

The concept of modern is based completely on time and investment. In A350's case, it is chasing 787 by at least a year. In terms of being as "technologically advanced", I'm guessing Airbus is trying to 'keep it simple' whlie Boeing risks the big steps forward. If Airbus can sell enough to make up for their investment, why have something so revolutionary when it could be done cheaper or simpler? This is already occuring in the exact opposite direction w.r.t. A380 and 748, while they may not be competitors, same business case.


Usually, the development of newer technology brings the opportunity to be more modern than the previous 'big step forward'. Having said that, a company doesn't have to invest 100% in something completely new. Consider all the harddrive digital music players than came into existence after I-Pod's debut years ago; Apple took a big risk. Boeing and Airbus are taking theirs, like all companies...and people for that matter. Big grin
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boeingbus
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:35 am

The reason A350 is all new is because after the fourth try, this what they came up with to properly compete with the 787... where as, the 747 has no competitor. Now, if everyone here thinks that Airbus came up with an all new design for charity... you are wrong. Remember, those statements of simply slapping on a the 7E7 engines on the A330 comments???

Even now, notice how Emirates is still not happy with the A359. Airbus will change their specs once more to accomodate EK.

748 can get away with this because the 748 has no competitor - simple as that. The A380 are for airlines who can fill 550 plus seats. If you can't do this, the 748 is a better choice. its just simple economics. The 748 could be Airbus' worst nightmare, at this point, because they dont have a plane to properly compete with the 450 seater, which the 748 is optimized for.

Cheers,

Ric
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Navion
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:46 am

The A350 ain't an all new based upon the amount of money (reportedly $4-$5 Billion) they're spending. If it was an all new aircraft, they'd be spending $7-$9 Billion (approximately). They're clearly using quite a bit of existing materials & technology. Talk is cheap but the money spent on a projet is king. Development of the A380, A345/6, A318 etc. have cost a lot of money, money which is cannibalising the A350 effort to be "all new". I'm sure the A350 will be a fine aircraft but the "all new" marketing, intended to keep up with the 787, is not being backed by the dollars necessary for such a pronouncement.
 
N79969
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! No�l Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:52 am

Foergard needs to make up his mind whether he will act as chief executive of EADS or as a VP-level spin doctor for Airbus who communicates in half-truths or occasionally, non-truths.
 
BoomBoom
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 1:55 am

Notice how he compares the A350 to the 748, instead of the 787.
Truth be told, the A350 is a derivative and the 748 is a derivative.

The 787 is the most modern aircraft of this century--so far. After all, this century is very young.
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JayinKitsap
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:15 am

Also, remember that the 787 is starting a new assembly line, new wing line, new body line, new bleedless air system, and a new hull diameter. Boeing feels that it may need to open a 2nd line. In the future, one of those lines could be switched to the Y1 when it is launched.

The A350 is on the same line as the A330 & A340. If all new wings, etc how easily will it be to make an A330, then a A350 and back on that line. Many products have a downtime to change over to a different model, for cars it may be seconds, in a stamping plant the dies need changing which is several hours. Some line changeovers are days. I suspect that the A350 line will do several months of A350's before jumping back and doing any remaining A330's or A340's.
 
Doona
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:20 am

Saying that an A/C is the most modern one of the century sounds a little stupid, whan there is 94 years left of it. Sort of like claiming to be the oldest person alive, when you're the last man on earth...

Cheers
Mats
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zvezda
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! No�l Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:27 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 2):
Forgeard must have missed the memo about the 748 using thesame engines as the A350.

To claim that the A350 has new engines ("The A350 is a totally new aircraft — totally new — the wings are new, the fuselage is new and even the engines are new") and then clearly imply that the B747-8 does not have new engines ("The 747-8 is not much different from the 747 — it is just a little stretched — that’s it") exceeds the usual Airbus hyperbole. Shame on you, Mr. Forgeard.
 
boeingbus
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:29 am

Quoting Doona (Reply 9):
Saying that an A/C is the most modern one of the century sounds a little stupid,



Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 7):
most modern aircraft of this century--so far


[Edited 2005-11-27 18:32:35]
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
ElGreco
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:59 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 7):
Notice how he compares the A350 to the 748, instead of the 787.
Truth be told, the A350 is a derivative and the 748 is a derivative.

The 787 is the most modern aircraft of this century--so far. After all, this century is very young.



Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 4):
The reason A350 is all new is because after the fourth try, this what they came up with to properly compete with the 787... where as, the 747 has no competitor. Now, if everyone here thinks that Airbus came up with an all new design for charity... you are wrong. Remember, those statements of simply slapping on a the 7E7 engines on the A330 comments???

Even now, notice how Emirates is still not happy with the A359. Airbus will change their specs once more to accomodate EK.

748 can get away with this because the 748 has no competitor - simple as that. The A380 are for airlines who can fill 550 plus seats. If you can't do this, the 748 is a better choice. its just simple economics. The 748 could be Airbus' worst nightmare, at this point, because they dont have a plane to properly compete with the 450 seater, which the 748 is optimized for.

Cheers,

Guys you partially right:

787 is completly new, but the A350 is not so old, and they will change many thinks (engine, wings,...) and it's looks for the first time even the fuselage, furthermore, all equipement technology will come from the A380.

A380 is completly new too, but the 747-800 will only change the lenth and the engines.

So we will see at the end because this is not only technical but marketing/communication battle  box   box   box   box   box 
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AJRfromSYR
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:26 am

Who do the PR people think they are fooling? Airline executives? Or the general public who do not care about airplane A to airplane B 95% of the time? Like the billboards Airbus put up around airports for the A350 saying its the most modern plane, who cares, and out of the people who care, who is dumb enough to be fooled by such a broad blanketing statement.
-AJR-
 
rigo
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! No�l Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:22 am

PR at work...

Usually I think A's executives are damn smart people (you don't become worlds #1 a/c manufacturer if you don't have some brains) but this is so ridiculous. IMO it would be much better to advertise the A350 as an A330NG, because that's what it is and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it. To the contrary, building on such proven technology while incorporating the latest refinements is a conservative and wise approach. B is not designing the B787 from scratch for the sake of a "completely new" plane, but because bringing the 767, which is really older, it up to date would probably not be economically justified.

Just my 2 cents...
 
Ruscoe
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:38 am

Quoting Rigo (Reply 14):
IMO it would be much better to advertise the A350 as an A330NG, because that's what it is and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with it.

! agree, is the 350 any more different from the 330 than say the 346, which they group together now.

Ruscoe
 
MidnightMike
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:00 am

Quote:
“We had many, many orders for the A380 before the carriers had even seen it and before it had made a single flight — that shows the confidence airlines have in us and in the A380,” explains Forgeard.

The same could be said for every aircraft out there, including the 787 & the A350. Airlines that order a new type of aircraft place their orders years before the aircraft makes their first flight.

Quote:
“Customers no longer get launch concessions but they still wanted the A380 and they still do.

Yes, customers get launch concessions, as the airlines is taking a high risk by ordering an aircraft years in advance before testing has started.

Quote:
“I’m totally fed up with these dramatised stories about delays,” he says, irately. “Instead of delivering the A380 in the second quarter of 2006 we are delivering it in the fourth quarter. In the history of civil aviation this is a very moderate delay — all the airlines know this — it’s a six-month delay — not the end of the world,” he jokes.

It is the customers that are complaining, yes, other programs have run into delays, but a 6 month delay is huge for airlines as you can be running from a peak to a non-peak schedule.

Quote:
The 747-8 is not much different from the 747 — it is just a little stretched — that’s it,” he adds.

Boeing has never claimed that the 747 is a brand new aircraft design, besides, the 747-800 will have new engines, stretched fuselage, etc.



Quote:
The A350 is a totally new aircraft — totally new — the wings are new, the fuselage is new and even the engines are new,” he claims resolutely. “It is the most modern aircraft of this century and we spent US$5.1 billion on its development.

This one has me a littler perplexed, what is the big deal if the A350 is based on the A330, that is a high comliment as the A330 is a good machine, besides, the airlines are out there purchasing the A350. Now, $5.1 billion is very cheap to invest in a brand new aircraft design, just look at the investment it took to get the 777, A380, & 787 in the air, based on an all new aircraft designs, it took over $10 billion US dollars.

Quote:
With deals for at least 65 Airbus aircraft signed off at last week’s Dubai airshow and a massive backlog of orders to deliver,

Could not agree more!  Smile
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grantcv
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:30 am

It seems that Leahy is contagious.
 
windshear
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! No�l Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:18 am

I hate to say this, but I really do not like that Noel guy, he actually gives me the creeps.

I think this article serves as an all time low even for him, to start bashing the US when we talk about aviation...

I really do not like that guy. Period.

Boaz...
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Lumberton
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:27 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 18):
I hate to say this, but I really do not like that Noel guy, he actually gives me the creeps.

Too bad EADS promoted him to co-chairman. He and Leahy were an effective "one-two punch" in the PR department. Humbert seems much more subdued and somber. Leahy can manage a whole lot of spin on his own, but a lot of journalists must be missing M. Forgeard terribly. In his new position, he has to be careful not to step on Herr Humbert. No, (insert Airbus fanboy name here) I don't have any source for this. It's just an opinion.

[Edited 2005-11-28 00:29:07]

[Edited 2005-11-28 00:31:24]
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ikramerica
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:36 am

Quoting Glom (Reply 2):
Forgeard must have missed the memo about the 748 using thesame engines as the A350

And the 748 will use them first... now who is innovative.


Frankly, he is technically correct because the A350 will be last to market, thus it will be the most "modern" aircraft at EIS, as it will be the newest. In 2010 you'd need to plot how "modern" the 787 or 748 of 1 or 2 years in service is against the new A350, and decide what modern even means.

But by 2010, the A350 will offer:

Lower cabin altitude with more humidity, as first seen on the 787
Bigger windows, as first seen on the ERJ
Advanced bleed-air engines, as first seen on the 748
Li-Al skin, as first seen on many other jets
Modern fly-by wire flightdeck, as first seen on other Airbus jets
2-4-2 fuselage with 2xLD3 lower deck, first seen on A300/310/330/340
etc.

A plane that takes some of the best parts of every jet that comes before, but hardly an innovation in the thing.
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glideslope
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:40 am

Noel is too funny. His comments remind me of child moved to the back of the class room who throws a paper aircraft into the hallway for attention once and a while.  Smile Of course he still can't top Mr. Leahy who claims the paper aircraft will clear the hallway, only to refuel at the door.  Smile
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SWISSER
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:42 am

I like that AIR WARS title!

So who will be the chosen one to bring balance to the (air) force?
I' am certainly Han Solo flying the damn things then!
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centrair
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! No? Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:00 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 21):
His comments remind me of child moved to the back of the class room who throws a paper aircraft into the hallway for attention once and a while. Of course he still can't top Mr. Leahy who claims the paper aircraft will clear the hallway, only to refuel at the door.

hahahahahahahahaha
Sounds like a great skit for SNL.
So I guess one of those is an HGW paper airplane made of thicker recycled construction A4 paper versus lightweight 8" x 11" looseleaf.
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NW727251ADV
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:04 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
2-4-2 fuselage with 2xLD3 lower deck, first seen on A300/310/330/340
etc.

Hey Ikramerica...I have been reading your posts on here for a while and I really identify with you because we share a lot of the same opinions.

But anyway I wanted to correct that the 2-4-2 layout was first used on a large scale on L-1011s and DC-10s back in the 60s and 70s. But passenger demands eventually warrented the addition of the "prisoner in the middle 5th" seat to create the familiar 2-5-2 configuration.
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Stitch
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:10 am

Well if the A350 can be called "all new" with the same fuselage cross section as the A330 and A340, then folks should stop whining when the 737NG is called "all new" even though it shares the same fuselage cross section as the 737 Classics and Refreshes.  Smile
 
NW727251ADV
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:18 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
Well if the A350 can be called "all new" with the same fuselage cross section as the A330 and A340, then folks should stop whining when the 737NG is called "all new" even though it shares the same fuselage cross section as the 737 Classics and Refreshes.

I completely agree. And I know I may be putting my foot in my mind and i'm sure someone will gladly correct me if i'm wrong but, I dont ever remember Boeing touting the 737NG as "All New"...but Airbus has steadily been calling the A350 "All New" even though it isn't. Airbus obviously didnt see the special presentation of the 747-8 in Airways Magazine (I believe it was Airways) where they did a full feature story on the 747-8. Boeing isn't doing anything that Airbus isn't doing with the A350. The -8 will have a furthur upgraded interior than that of the -400ER, it will feature new wingtips and engines, and a slightly larger capacity. Isn't that the same with the 350 as compared to the 330??? Or am I living in some sort of strange reverse world?
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N79969
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! No�l Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:24 am

Foergard is delusional. His remarks about subsidies, Airbus, and Boeing are without basis for the most part. It would be very unfortunate for Airbus (but great for Boeing) if the co-CEO of EADS were to actually believe his own words.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:40 am

You've got to rememeber that Foregeared has to keep his political masters happy also. I'm unsure, but I think Foregeared was an Industrial advisor to the French President before taking over at Airbus.

That why some of his comments seem inappropriate for one who is the CEO, sorry shared CEO, of the worlds leading Civil Aircraft manufacturer.

Political imperatives must be met along with the industrial ones.

Ruscoe
 
N79969
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 28):
You've got to rememeber that Foregeared has to keep his political masters happy also. I'm unsure, but I think Foregeared was an Industrial advisor to the French President before taking over at Airbus.

That why some of his comments seem inappropriate for one who is the CEO, sorry shared CEO, of the worlds leading Civil Aircraft manufacturer.

Political imperatives must be met along with the industrial ones.

I do not disagree...I think it shows the degree of dependence, financial and otherwise, that Airbus has on European political institutions. Let me add that Foergard had Jacques Chirac (unsuccessfully) intervene in the EADS succession matters so that he would be made the sole CEO and to end the co-CEO system.
 
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:54 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
Frankly, he is technically correct because the A350 will be last to market, thus it will be the most "modern" aircraft at EIS, as it will be the newest

By that line of reasoning, wouldn't the most recent aircraft manufactured, regardless of whether it's a 737 or A320, 767, A330, A340, 747 etc., be the most modern because it's the newest?
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cloudy
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:57 am

Quoting Halibut (Thread starter):
“If you look at two recent initiatives within the industry; the A350 and the 747-8 they are quite different. The A350 is a totally new aircraft — totally new — the wings are new, the fuselage is new and even the engines are new,” he claims resolutely. “It is the most modern aircraft of this century and we spent US$5.1 billion on its development.

Why does he say "spent" rather than "will spend"? I suspect he originally meant the A380 and the wording got changed somewhere. If you subsititute "A380" for "A50" the memo makes more sense. It would still be a wildly exagerated piece of PR, but it would seem to fit better.
 
jacobin777
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! No�l Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:02 am

this is what I see..


"Up the Irons!"
 
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mariner
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:06 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 32):
this is what I see..

An extremely successful businessman?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Halibut
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:00 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 32):
this is what I see..

Well he certainly is not as dumb as he looks ! lol  silly 

He kinda reminds me of that guy on the cover of Mad magazine .

http://www.dccomics.com/mad/

Here is what the other side is saying regarding the A350/747-8 :

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/249208_boeing22.html

Airbus will be forced to respond in kind. Simply re-engining the A320 won't cut it, as Airbus found out when it tried to re-engine the A330 to compete with the 787. Airbus took four tries to essentially redesign the A330 into the A350 to have a competitive product. Surely an A320 successor to the "797" will also have to be a complete redesign.

With Boeing's launch of the 747-8 and the financial analysis provided above, Airbus will be hard-pressed to fund yet another entirely new airplane program on the heels of the A380 and the A350. Add to this Boeing's continued effort to deny launch aid to Airbus in the long-running dispute with the World Trade Organization, and Boeing may well find a tremendous financial advantage over Airbus when it comes time to launch the "797."

The 747-8 may not be much more than a breast enhancement and some Botox, but it's certainly no boob job. It's a brilliant strategic move.


Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
jacobin777
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! No�l Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:36 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 33):

An extremely successful businessman?

i thought i made myself perfectly clear with the two photos juxtaposed with each other...

 wave 
"Up the Irons!"
 
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RayChuang
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:43 am

Look, I think Airbus is upsetting EK because if Airbus has to put more and more "new" technology into the A350 it will push the EIS further back, and EK will likely thumb their noses at Airbus and sign a deal with Boeing to build the 787-10 with as many as 60 planes on firm order.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 30):
Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 20):
Frankly, he is technically correct because the A350 will be last to market, thus it will be the most "modern" aircraft at EIS, as it will be the newest

By that line of reasoning, wouldn't the most recent aircraft manufactured, regardless of whether it's a 737 or A320, 767, A330, A340, 747 etc., be the most modern because it's the newest?

Good point, that would be like saying that the 737NG has a more advanced cockpit than the A320, since it came out later, which we know not to be true...
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mariner
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:56 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 35):
i thought i made myself perfectly clear with the two photos juxtaposed with each other...

Sorry, I only see one photo. The first is a question mark, the second is one of M. Forgeard.

cheers

mariner
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ikramerica
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:19 pm

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 24):
But anyway I wanted to correct that the 2-4-2 layout was first used on a large scale on L-1011s and DC-10s back in the 60s and 70s. But passenger demands eventually warrented the addition of the "prisoner in the middle 5th" seat to create the familiar 2-5-2 configuration.

But the A300 series aircraft has a narrower fuselage than those aircraft, but also has a more cylindrical shape to fit more cargo in pallets/containers and thus it is the 2-4-2 with 2 LD3 shape that was pioneered by AIRBUS and is not new to the A350. Only thing new to the A350 is a few inches squeezed in just allow them to cramp you in at 2-5-2 in a tighter config than the DC10/L1011.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 30):
By that line of reasoning, wouldn't the most recent aircraft manufactured, regardless of whether it's a 737 or A320, 767, A330, A340, 747 etc., be the most modern because it's the newest?

But that's the only logical reasoning he is using for his statements. Which just demonstrates how silly his statements are.
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iwok
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:31 pm

The 717 is the most modern aircraft in the universe!

EIS is not the only factor...

-wiok
 
NAV20
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:16 pm

A thoroughly incompetent performance IMO - can't possibly do any good and may do some harm. It's a pity that we don't get to know what the context of these remarks was; whether it was a speech at Dubai, a one-on-one press interview, or what. It seems to contain a lot of 'thinking aloud' - and a fair bit of wishful thinking. One wonders what Forgeard was trying to achieve; to reassure shareholders, to impress a journalist? Or could he possibly just have been trying to convince himself?

In any case, talk of this sort won't convince the people who matter - the people who make the purchasing decisions for the airlines. Especially being told that, even if they want A380s, they'll have to wait until 2010 for them.  Smile

Also, one very odd paragraph:-

“The delay is purely down to industrial issues. The A380 has already performed hundreds of hours of flights and it flew every day at the Dubai airshow,” he says. “We have been a little overloaded with this programme because we are due to deliver 25 airplanes in the first year. It’s a big project and we are having a lot of discussions with different airlines about the systems, cabins and the steering, which is a bit heavy. It has to be right,” he adds.

Like most people, I've been assuming that Airbus had at least got the A380 sorted out to the point where they could start volume production. That para. rather suggests that they're not completely out of the wood even yet.

And what on earth are we to make of the 'heavy steering' problem? For a start, does he mean on the ground or in the air?  Smile
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BoomBoom
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:54 pm

Perhaps he was drunk.
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grantcv
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:15 pm

If you are wondering why everyone at Airbus keeps talking about the A350 being "all new", go and take a lesson in marketing. Listen carefully when you are told how to trick the market into believing something that isn't really true. Constant repitition - if you say it enough, everyone will come to believe you. Leahy is probably the one behind this nonsense - I would guess he has given instructions to everyone at Airbus that speaks to the public to keep emphasising "All New A350" as if that is its name.

Quite frankly, if Airbus could make a twin-engine derivative of the A330/A340 that replaced both models, retained a high degree of commonality, yet performed as good as the 787 at the bottom and the 777 at the top, that would be a very good thing. But if they could do that, they wouldn't have to resort to silly marketing measures to sell the plane.
 
trevd
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:41 pm

Good God!! When did Ed Grimley go to work for Airbus ??

 
flyboy_se
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:15 pm

When will it stop.Airbus this and Boeing that.I am tired of it,and i am sure i am not the only one.
Isnt it really anything better to discuss then who makes better airplanes.
I like them all Airbus,Boeing,Embraer,Canadair,Tupolev,Ilyushin,Yakovlev,McDonald Douglas,
well anything that flyes.
So why dont we stop this BS and everyobody admit that they all make great aircraft and leave the politics to people who are better at it ,the politicians.
just my 0,02 öre  Smile

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Halibut
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 8:21 pm

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 45):
When will it stop

When Noel stops spinning    & talking trash ! So you'll need to ask Noel Forgeard that !

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 45):
So why dont we stop this BS

As soon as Noel Forgeard stops making comments like the A350 is all new .   

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 45):
politics to people who are better at it ,the politicians.

It's no secret that politics play a big part in aviation , especially when Airbus is part owned my the French government & many of there clients like the chinese government are involved in the sale of a/c , since they decide on a/c purchases ! Until that is no longer the case , politics will always be part of the equation !

Halibut

[Edited 2005-11-28 12:28:33]
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MidnightMike
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:59 pm

Quoting Flyboy_se (Reply 45):
When will it stop.Airbus this and Boeing that.I am tired of it,and i am sure i am not the only one.
Isnt it really anything better to discuss then who makes better airplanes.
I like them all Airbus,Boeing,Embraer,Canadair,Tupolev,Ilyushin,Yakovlev,McDonald Douglas,
well anything that flyes.
So why dont we stop this BS and everyobody admit that they all make great aircraft and leave the politics to people who are better at it ,the politicians.
just my 0,02 ?re ?


In this thread, so far, not one person has said that Airbus makes a bad airplane, some people are being critical to some of the comments from Airbus.
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distanthorizon
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:32 pm

Quoting N79969 (Reply 27):
Foergard is delusional. His remarks about subsidies, Airbus, and Boeing are without basis for the most part.

Yeah, right... He just took that company to nº 1 in the planet by accident...
He is really a sick person, who should find some help...  Yeah sure
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N79969
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RE: A350-totally New Aircraft! Noël Forgeard

Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:52 pm

Quoting DistantHorizon (Reply 48):
Yeah, right... He just took that company to nº 1 in the planet by accident...
He is really a sick person, who should find some help...

Yes-- my mistake. It was Foregeard that single-handedly accomplished that...right...

He is a politically connected ex-bureaucrat and not a visionary businessman. As Ruscoe points out, he owes his existence in large part to his political masters.

His remarks (or perhaps his true views) in that article are not grounded in reality.