ukkiwibird
Posts: 44
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 2:48 pm

Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:45 am

After reading links and past stories about people high on sleeping pills or valium trying to get out for a smoke, i would like to gage some views on smoking on long haul flights.

For some , as we know flying is terrifying for some, and for those who smoke , it must be total torture. Is there now not space on some of these aircraft to put the smokers at the back of the plane , being separated from the rest of the PAX by a curtain.
I would guess fire hazard now due to left butt ends must be smaller than 10/ 15 years agonow that fire retardants are so much better.
What do you people think.??

Ukkiwibird
 
jwenting
Posts: 9973
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2001 10:12 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:50 am

The fire hazzard is less of a problem than is the fact that their smoke pollutes the entire airconditioning system for everyone else.

Unless they install a completely sealed off cabin for smokers (so not just a thin curtain but a wall with an airlock) and provide that part of the cabin with a completely independent airconditioning system (independent piping, pumps, filters, etc. etc. etc.) that problem will remain.
For the first 20 years or so of my life all flying was a constant torture of being locked in a room full of cigarette smoke which assaulted my eyes continuously (even being in a 5x5m room in which a cigarette has been smoked half an hour earlier can cause my eyes to seriously hurt if there's poor ventilation, imagine that room being full of smokers for hours at a time).
I wish I were flying
 
knoxibus
Posts: 638
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:59 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:54 am

Well I heard that with some of the airlines that will operate the A380, we are going to see those kind of "rooms" or enclosed space, where you will be able to smoke.

There will be a dedicated/separate environmental control system ducting I would guess, possibly with filters.
No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:58 am

Why should non smokers suffer for the enjoyment of smokers? It is not like the non smokers would be able to escape from the smoking, now is it? Also what about the workers who would be exposed to the smoking, what about there health and well being.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
brokenrecord
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:45 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:01 am

I think Aerolineas Argentinas still allows smoking... Or at least they did within the last few years. They allowed it after departing US airspace.

Another thing for smokers to consider is using smokeless tobacco when flying. A lot less damaging to others' health.
 
vegasplanes
Posts: 656
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:22 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:12 am

Quoting Brokenrecord (Reply 4):

Another thing for smokers to consider is using smokeless tobacco when flying. A lot less damaging to others' health

It's not the same, as a smoker, I smoke because I like to smoke, not to chew tobacco or whatnot. I think that's a no go.

Also as a smoker, it would suck to sit in a smoke filled tube for a long ten hour flight. So having smoking on flights the way it used to be is no bueno.

Quoting Knoxibus (Reply 2):
Well I heard that with some of the airlines that will operate the A380, we are going to see those kind of "rooms" or enclosed space, where you will be able to smoke.

The most logical idea to solve the issue. We shall see if the idea develops. My guess is that if such a service was avialable, the airlines would charge extra for a "pass" for the flight to get into the smoking room. I am assuming that they would not set up a dedicated smoking cabin.
 
pixuk
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:13 am

It is an ironic fact that the air quality on board planes is now worse than it was when smoking was allowed since far less fresh oxygen is pumped into the cabin, and airlines save money by simply re-circulating the air.

Whilst you're less at risk from second-hand smoke, your chances of catching a serious disease like TB has increased.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/forum/1524501.stm
 
parisien
Posts: 832
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2000 5:04 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:18 am

What is a smokeless tobacco ?
I think that at least airports should have a smoking room for smokers to have cigarettes before they get on the aircraft for long haul destinations, after immigration etc. of course ! The idea that one can have a cigarette before spending 12 to 14 hours not being able to do so should lessen the stress considerably...for smokers.
I know that in some airports, it is all non smoking except for areas in first or business lounges ! thats not fair to the Y pax I think.
AF used to have an enclosed area for smokers on their planes...dont know why they got rid of it. Though I supposed it was still smelly for the person sitting just next to the area.
Lots of smokers like to fly non smoking? according to surveys ....
 
irelayer
Posts: 929
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:27 am

I think Biman Bangladesh also allows smoking still.

I was talking to a friend the other day and we both agreed that we couldn't imagine the old days when people had to sit in the plane amongst all the cig smoke...but then I thought back and realized that A LOT more people smoked in those days, there were less people on the flights, and not a lot of people were aware just how bad it was...it was a "smoke friendly" atmosphere and I'm sure the people that thought it was disgusting were in the minority at that time.

I am a light smoker and I can go days or even weeks without a smoke and I really couldn't care less, so not that much of a problem for me...

-IR
 
Sabena332
Posts: 14938
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 3:57 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:29 am

Quoting Parisien (Reply 7):
AF used to have an enclosed area for smokers on their planes...

That was a brilliant idea!!! I saw these things on a flight to SFO but they were unfortunately closed.

Quoting Parisien (Reply 7):
dont know why they got rid of it.

I think they decided to put 6 seats (which bring money) into the plane instead these smoking bars/lounges.

Patrick
NZ1's mother is a disgusting crack-whore and his father is a worthless alcoholic!
 
brokenrecord
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:45 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:00 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 5):
It's not the same, as a smoker, I smoke because I like to smoke, not to chew tobacco or whatnot. I think that's a no go.

I know it is not the same. I myself am a social smoker, and cannot stand the taste of dip, but for those who are nicotine addicted and need their fix, it may be a viable alternative.
 
brokenrecord
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2005 6:45 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:02 am

Quoting Parisien (Reply 7):
What is a smokeless tobacco ?

Smokeless tobacco is items such as dip (aka snuff) or chewing tobacco. Both are extremely popular in the southern and western United States.

http://www.ussmokeless.com/
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:17 am

Smoking areas can be placed next to outflow valves....a only a small amount of bleed air would be needed to get the air moving towards the valve, keeping all the non-smokers (and smokers) happy.
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:22 am

I think the smoking issue has as much to do with having breathable, quality air for the customers and crew to breathe.

In the days of smoking there were rarely fire incidents relating to smoking.

It was a great day when Northwest banned smoking on flights.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
TPAnx
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:53 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:40 am

There is a huge lawsuit in Miami filed by F/As who say they have health problems caused by years of exposure to second-hand smoke.

Quoting Pixuk (Reply 6):
It is an ironic fact that the air quality on board planes is now worse than it was when smoking was allowed since far less fresh oxygen is pumped into the cabin, and airlines save money by simply re-circulating the air.

My understanding as well..not all "air packs" that could be operated are..to save fuel and money.

Quoting Brokenrecord (Reply 4):
Another thing for smokers to consider is using smokeless tobacco when flying. A lot less damaging to others' health.

Have you ever seen the "spit cups" chewers use?
  

I smoke far too much. But if I can survive a trans-Atlantic trip without a cigarette..I think anyone can. If you feel you can't, buy a nicotine patch.
(But I've got to admit I really wanted a cigarette when someone lit up in the lav..smelled good, at least to me. Crew smelled it too..but despite their best efforts..the offender wasn't found. Crew threatened to turn the person over to the FBI on landing...)

TPAnx

[Edited 2005-11-28 01:44:18]
I read the news today..oh boy
 
N754PR
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 1999 10:03 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:05 am

Like resturants, these seats are for smokers. The ones three feet to the right are NON Smoking!! Like the smoke knows its not allowed to cross that line....

No smoking on planes EVER AGAIN!!
Bush, your a sad, sad man.
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:10 am

Smokeless tobacco is as discusting a habit as smoking. Who wants to sit next to someone spitting vile brown liquid into a cup for hours on end. Not to mention use of smokeless products are prohibited on many air carriers as it causes additional cleaning expenses and some consider the "juice" corrosive to airplane parts. As to an enclosed room for smokers that would only magnify the stink when they return to sit next to you no thanks. I think smokers on long haul who are nicotine addicted and feel they will "suffer" should plan ahead and bring niccorette, the patch or any of the other products out on the market to aleviate withdrawl symptoms.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
EZEIZA
Posts: 4421
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 12:09 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:11 am

Quoting TPAnx (Reply 14):
I smoke far too much. But if I can survive a trans-Atlantic trip without a cigarette..I think anyone can. If you feel you can't, buy a nicotine patch.
(But I've got to admit I really wanted a cigarette when someone lit up in the lav..smelled good, at least to me. Crew smelled it too..but despite their best efforts..the offender wasn't found. Crew threatened to turn the person over to the FBI on landing...)

Me too, I smoke way too much. The first non smoking long haul for me was in 1998 EZE-AMS ... 14 hours of torture. Since then however, I got used to the fact that i would never be able to smoke on flights again, and with the exception of after the meals, I am fine with it. besides, the first smoke upon arrival is great! Big grin

I have to admit though that if sealed smoking sectors were to be implemented I would for sure try to get a seat there.

regards
Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
 
zvezda
Posts: 8891
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:19 am

With the availability of nicotine chewing gum and nicotine patches, there is no excuse for smoking on any flight or in any enclosed public space.
 
efohdee
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:52 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:18 am

How about start a "smoking only" airline, where the passengers are all smokers and can enjoy a cigarette or cigar while they travel. Air Marlboro. Ashtray Airways. Sorry it's a boring Sunday night.  Smile
 
efohdee
Posts: 212
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:52 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:22 am

"Cleared for takeoff, Marlboro two eight zero."

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Photo © Charlie Atterbury

 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:07 pm

It is not only the molestation of other passenger and the air pollution, it is also the danger of open fire on board. I never understood that this was allowed in the old days. If there was any smoking allowed on a flight I would never ever take this.
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 5:03 pm

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):
Why should non smokers suffer for the enjoyment of smokers?

Agree, but despite some of the comments here I really doubt any smoker enjoys it, except perhaps because it feeds their addiction. I smoked for far to long, from about 12 to 38 and it was a real b*tch to quit - not because I enyoyed it, but because I was hooked.

Quoting Parisien (Reply 7):
Lots of smokers like to fly non smoking? according to surveys

I remember flying (standby) on SR (remember them) from LAX to ZRH - around 13 hours as I recall. The last row in J was smoking, rest of the cabin was not - and of course I got a seat in smoking. It was OK because the seat beside me was empty. That is until all the smokers who had taken non-smoking seats came back and sat beside me to smoke. There was a parade of them, one after another and at one time there was one in the seat beside me and one standing in the aisle to grab the seat as soon as it was free. When I suggested that they simply switch with me, oh no - they don't want to sit in smoking.

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 13):
In the days of smoking there were rarely fire incidents relating to smoking.

Rarely - that is way too many! One is too many!
 
cosec59
Posts: 2618
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 2:59 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 6:33 pm

I smoke (far too much). But when flying, even long haul, it doesn't worry me that I can't get my fix. I wouldn't like to see smoking sections re-introduced
Rules are for the obedience of fools but for the guidance of wise men
 
EI747SYDNEY
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:28 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:05 pm

( I posted this before)

I'v heard that some people out there do indeed smoke on flights and that have not got caught.

Denis Leary (actor) was on Irish National broadcaster RTE (Radio Telifis Eireann) and said he had smoked on an Aer Lingus scheduled flight from Boston (A330) and never got caught. He said that none of the smoke alarms ever work??

Comments.........

Rob  wave 
''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
 
pixuk
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:36 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 18):
With the availability of nicotine chewing gum and nicotine patches, there is no excuse for smoking on any flight or in any enclosed public space.

It's not that simple, and you really don't understand the habit of smoking. It's more than just the nicotine, and those products are designed to only help smokers who want to quit. They do nothing to help the habitual action of wanting to smoke a cigarette at certain points (such as after meals, or when drinking a beer, etc)

Although I'm now an ex-smoker myself, when I did smoke, the patches didn't help one bit either on long haul flights (in fact they made me feel worse since they constantly pump nicotine into your body rather than give you a "quick hit").
 
TheSorcerer
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:35 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:52 pm

Quoting Efohdee (Reply 20):

LOL
personally I wouldn't mind if a smoking room was re-introduced, my parents smoke around me all the time anyway. The only problem I see with smoking (if I smoked) is that it makes you stink and it costs way too much. Now you may say but it harms, I'd rather die before the stage that I have to go into an old folks home. The Airline should charge an extra 10% for smokers. This money could go towards the costs of keeping the smoking lounges open.

The Sorcerer
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
sparkingwave
Posts: 563
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:01 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:07 pm

A plane trip is a litmus test. If you can't survive a flight without a smoke, then you have a serious addiction. Period.

People who squeal about having the right to smoke on planes need to get their act together. Period.

Smoking cigarettes on board has caused fires in planes. There was one flight in which somebody smoked in the lavatory. They left the cigarette in the trash and it caught fire. The inside of the cabin caught on fire. The pilot landed the plane safely, but everybody in the passenger section died due to smoke inhalation as well as the fire (and this was an L1011 I believe).

Fuel for thought,

SparkingWave
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
 
B707Stu
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:15 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:47 pm

DL has smoking lounges near their gates in ATL for smokers last 'drag' before boarding.
 
bdak
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:38 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:47 pm

http://ash.org/nosmokair.html shows the airlines that still allow smoking
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Mon Nov 28, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 26):
Now you may say but it harms, I'd rather die before the stage that I have to go into an old folks home

Oh boy, this is rubbish. You probably can say such things in your very young age. If you ever saw somebody dying from a lung cancer (I have) you would not say such a b...-sh... My father is a oncologist. He daily sees people with cancers caused by smoking and passive smoking. When you hear only the half of his stories you never would be so easy about passive smoking. BTW I find it almost a crime when parents smoke around kids of your age and younger.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:03 am

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 27):
Smoking cigarettes on board has caused fires in planes. There was one flight in which somebody smoked in the lavatory. They left the cigarette in the trash and it caught fire. The inside of the cabin caught on fire. The pilot landed the plane safely, but everybody in the passenger section died due to smoke inhalation as well as the fire (and this was an L1011 I believe).

Fuel for thought,

SparkingWave

Hi SparkingWave

while I agree with your views about smoking on board , I have to point out that the SV L1011 on board fire at JED ( which is the one I believe you referred to ) is generally believed to have been caused by a propane camping stove brought on board by a pilgrim rather than a cigarette ( apparently it is truly frightening what some of the Hajj pilgrims from more remote areas will try to bring on board an aircraft ) .

As an interesting aside , I recall an anecdote from an engineer where he said he missed on board smoking as there was always a telltale smear of disgusting residue from cigarette smoke around any microscopic cracks/leaks in the a/c skin which made maintenance inspections a lot easier - I have no idea whether he was pulling my leg or not - anyone with experience in this area care to shed some light on this ?
 
TheSorcerer
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:35 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:18 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 30):

Ok i was exagerating a bit, but i still want to die before i have to go into an old folks home. Both my grandparents were in one, i found it very depressing when i had to visit them. That's why i never want to go into one.

The Sorcerer
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:25 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 12):
Smoking areas can be placed next to outflow valves....a only a small amount of bleed air would be needed to get the air moving towards the valve, keeping all the non-smokers (and smokers) happy.

Both Boeing and Flight Structures have existing designs for smoking areas sitting on the shelf. Both of these system incorporate extracting the smoke via a filtered inlet to the lav/galley ventilation system. This system draws air from specific locations (lavs and galleys) within the cabin and dumps the air near the outflow valve where it is extracted from the aircraft via the pressure differential.

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 24):
I'v heard that some people out there do indeed smoke on flights and that have not got caught.

It can be done if you are familiar with the specific model of aircrafts systems.
That said, it would still be idiotic behaviour.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 31):
telltale smear of disgusting residue from cigarette smoke around any microscopic cracks/leaks in the a/c skin

True.

Tod
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:29 am

Quoting Tod (Reply 33):
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 31):
telltale smear of disgusting residue from cigarette smoke around any microscopic cracks/leaks in the a/c skin

True.

Tod

thanks Tod - I was told this years ago and have never quite been sure whether I was being kidded or not ( the guy who told me was fortunate to have been born with the ability to tell the most blatant lies with incredible sincerity - something I sadly missed out on )
 
EI747SYDNEY
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:28 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:35 am

Quoting Tod (Reply 33):
It can be done if you are familiar with the specific model of aircrafts systems.
That said, it would still be idiotic behaviour.

Can you elaborate a little on this.....

Thanks mate

Rob  wave 
''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:45 am

Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 35):
Can you elaborate a little on this.....

Systems familiarity or idiotic behaviour?

I could go on all day about idiots.

Unfortunately, it would be inappropriate for me to provide the technical knowlege required to successfully extract smoke from a lavatory without causing a smoke detection event.

Tod
 
kiwiandrew

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting Tod (Reply 36):
Systems familiarity or idiotic behaviour?

I could go on all day about idiots.

 thumbsup 
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:13 am

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 32):
Ok i was exagerating a bit, but i still want to die before i have to go into an old folks home. Both my grandparents were in one, i found it very depressing when i had to visit them. That's why i never want to go into one.

Ok I understand your point. I only wanted to tell how dangerous passiv smoking is. I don't mind people smoking but I don't want to share. Actually I like to go to restaurants and bars and there I have to suffer because Switzerland is kind a third world country regarding protection of non-smokers.
 
TheSorcerer
Posts: 1003
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:35 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:39 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 38):
Switzerland is kind a third world country regarding protection of non-smokers.

So is my house. I wonder how many years have been taken off my life.
Looks like there are very few places that people aren't exposed to passive smoking.

Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
undehoulli
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2005 10:04 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:39 am

Having a no-smoking section in an airplane or restaurant is just like having a no-peeing section in a pool.
Weather Modification Rocks!!!
 
iairallie
Posts: 2326
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 5:42 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:55 am

Quoting Tod (Reply 33):
Quoting EI747SYDNEY (Reply 24):
I'v heard that some people out there do indeed smoke on flights and that have not got caught.

It can be done if you are familiar with the specific model of aircrafts systems.
That said, it would still be idiotic behaviour.

It is indeed possible and idiotic because it involves tampering with the smoke detectors. Tampering with smoke detectors is explicitly illegal.
Enough about flying lets talk about me!
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting Undehoulli (Reply 40):
Having a no-smoking section in an airplane or restaurant is just like having a no-peeing section in a pool.

Only true if you fail to install a very agressive extraction/isolation system.

It just takes money to design, certify, install and operate a smoking section that would not contaminate the rest of the cabin.
If airlines felt there was a realistic business model to support it, it would happen.

Tod
 
pixuk
Posts: 305
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 8:44 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:00 am

Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Reply 38):
Ok I understand your point. I only wanted to tell how dangerous passiv smoking is. I don't mind people smoking but I don't want to share. Actually I like to go to restaurants and bars and there I have to suffer because Switzerland is kind a third world country regarding protection of non-smokers.

ZRH, this is a thread about smoking onboard, so I don't want to drag this too far off-topic; but the dangers of passive smoking are often used in these kinds of arguments without real evidence. Yes, smoke is unpleasant for non-smokers, but there should be some perspective rather than merrily accusing smokers of mass-murder.

The most oft-quoted study into second-hand smoke was the 1993 EPA research which claimed passive smoking caused 3000 deaths per year in the USA. Although this report has been the core of anti-smoking fervor, it has also been all but discredited, first by the Congressional Research Service in 1995, and then by Federal Judge William Osteen in 1998 who declared it "null and void" because it was found EPA manipulated the data for fit the results they wanted.

A study in the UK by Covance Laboratories indicated that amount of nicotine in the blood of average non-smokers who were regularly exposed to second-hand smoke was the equivilent of 6 cigarettes per year. But that doesn't stop the venomous anit-smoking lobby, such as that in Chicago at the moment, making outrageous claims that 8 hours in a passive smoking environment equates to 16 cigarettes. Many will see those kind of figures and join the witch hunt against smokers.

The argument against smoking in bars is different to smoking on planes. I'm happy that there is a smoking ban on planes, because it does tend to stink up the place (but note my previous post that the air quality is actually worse, because airlines now use less air packs! If they'd use the same number of air packs they had pre-smoking ban, we'd all be much better off). As for smoking in bars and clubs, it should be up to the market to decide. If having non-smoking establishments will bring in more non-smoking patrons, then those business owners already have the right to make their premises non-smoking. Note that I'm not talking about smokers or non-smokers "rights" here, just that we should have freedom of choice.

BTW, I am an ex-smoker.

Pete
 
Tod
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting IAirAllie (Reply 41):
it involves tampering with the smoke detectors

Not always.

Tod
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:07 am

The bottom line is that however separate a smoking area might be, it would be impossible to keep the smell of smoke away from the non-smoking pax. The smoking areas in airports are awful - 20 people crowded in a small room, and then they walk out stinking of stale smoke.

Also, remember a recent change (in the US anyway) prohibits lighters from being carried onboard.

I cannot imagine people being allowed to have lighted cigarettes onboard a commercial airliner.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
EI747SYDNEY
Posts: 686
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 8:28 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:41 am

Quoting Tod (Reply 36):
Unfortunately, it would be inappropriate for me to provide the technical knowlege required to successfully extract smoke from a lavatory without causing a smoke detection event.

No fair  smile 

Rob  wave 
''Live life on the edge, Live each and every day like it's your last, Hell you only live once''
 
LH455
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 9:36 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:55 am

Quoting Bdak (Reply 29):
http://ash.org/nosmokair.html shows the airlines that still allow smoking

This list is really outdated! Some of the airlines no longer exist and many of them have banned smoking on all flights even though list says they allow smoking.

Remember how the smoke from a cigarette would curl up into the overhead light on a long flight? Makes my eyes burn just remembering it ...
 
vc10
Posts: 1342
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:37 am

Being a person who has stopped smoking rather than a non smoker, I never found not smoking on an aeroplane a problem, but as soon as I got off the aircraft I always had a terrible urge for a smoke, and the fact that I had to go all through the waiting lines for immigration /customs before I could have a ciggie was very annoying.

Even when smoking was allowed on aircraft smoking in the toilets was always banned as this was an unmonitored area and thus a fire hazard. However when smoking was banned this was the only area where people thought they could get away with it and so smoking then became a greater fire hazard. The DC-9 [was it Air Canada] that had a serious cabin fire was I believe from someone smoking in the toilet.

As to whether smoking should be banned I do not know. All I do know is that I gave up due more to social pressure than for health reasons, and I believe because of these social pressures smoking will slowly but surely be outlawed in more and more areas until the tax returns are low enough for the government to ban it altogether.

However with the success of the "no smoking " campaign what will people be banning next--Alcohol--- Watch this space

Be Happy Little vc10
 
Leskova
Posts: 5547
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 3:39 pm

RE: Smoking On Long Haul?

Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:50 am

No-one is forced to start smoking.

Some people consciously decide not to smoke.

Why should those who do not smoke have to suffer to alleviate the self-inflicted suffering of those who chose to smoke?

I've had to sit close to or, much worse, in smoking sections on flights - in 33 years, I've never touched a single cigarette, and the "experience" on those flights was, at best, sickening. Revolting, actually.

And the "best" of it: while forced to sit in the disgusting smokers section, because no seats in the non-smoking section were available, other passengers came from the non-smoking section, sat down next to me, smoked a couple of cigarettes and then went back to their seat in fresh air.

I'm a non-violent person, but those flights sure put my self control to the test.

Consequence for me: an airline that allows smoking does not see my business.

Fortunately, that excludes extremely few airlines these days.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!

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