WINGS
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TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:15 pm

According to Diario Economico a Portuguese newspaper. Tap had placed an original order with Airbus for the acquasiton of 10x A350 + 5 options.
Its is now confirming that Tap has decided to exercise 2 of those options taking its order up to 12x A350 + 3 options.

It is also reporting that Tap as a launch customer has been abel to acquire the frames for a very reasonable price. It is believed that Tap acquired the A350 between 80-90 Million dollars. The catalogue price of the A350 is between 150-170 Million dollars.

http://www.diarioeconomico.com/edici...empresas/pt/desarrollo/595620.html

So now we have the following orders for the A350.

Qatar Airways 60
Tap Portugal 12
Tam 8
Air Europa 10
Eurofly 3
Kingfisher 5
US Airways 20
Gecas 10
CIT 5
ILFC 12
ALAFCO 12

TOTAL: 157 Order/Commitments

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
FlyPEGASUS
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:37 pm

Hi WINGS,

Thanks for the article!!

About the A350:
On Monday 21st of November, TAP's CEO Mr. Fernando Pinto at an interview while at Toulouse, had already stated that TAP had 10 firm orders for A350 plus 5 options, 2 of which were already in an advanced stage of negotiation, very close to be concluded.

About the A330:
And in the article you mention, I read again about 8 A330 (3 in leasing) and not 7 as stated in Airbus homepage. Do you know why these numbers don't match? From where is that 8th A330 expected to come?

Regards,
 
CV990
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:42 pm

Hi!

Very nice news, we can clearly understand that TAP having 8 A330-200 and the 4 A340-300 until the arrival of the A350's it will replace all of them in a one-to-one basis leaving TAP with the same number of long-haul airplanes by 2015!!! I was just checking out the history of TAP long-haul fleet since the 70's and what we can see is mainly TAP had from 10 to 14 airplanes in those routes, but the number of seats offered have been increasing, and that's the main point, TAP will keep mainly the same number of airplanes but it will offer almost the double they offer now!!!
Let's take a look:

70's/80's - 12 707-300B/C + 2 747-200
80's/90's - 7 L1011-500 + 5 A310-300
90's/2005 - 6 A310-300's + 4 A340-300
2006/2013 - 8 A330-200 + 4 A340-300
2013/2015 - 12 A350

Any comments?
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
n1786b
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:52 pm

Congrats to AB and TAP.

Interesting how this went completely unnoticed....  duck 

- n1786b


Airbus pode vir a fabricar componentes em Portugal
A Airbus pode vir a fabricar em Portugal alguns dos componentes dos aviões da empresa. O anúncio foi feito pelo administrador-delegado da TAP durante a cerimónia de assinatura do contrato para a compra de aviões para a frota de longo curso da TAP.

http://www.lusomundo.net/online/econ...a/interior.asp?id_artigo=TSF165881
 
Pyrex
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:00 pm

Quoting N1786b (Reply 3):
Interesting how this went completely unnoticed....

I wouldn't get my hopes up, although EADS does own 0,65% (as in zero point sixty-five percent) of OGMA.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
WINGS
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:31 pm

Quoting N1786b (Reply 3):
Interesting how this went completely unnoticed.... duck

- n1786b


Airbus pode vir a fabricar componentes em Portugal
A Airbus pode vir a fabricar em Portugal alguns dos componentes dos aviões da empresa. O anúncio foi feito pelo administrador-delegado da TAP durante a cerimónia de assinatura do contrato para a compra de aviões para a frota de longo curso da TAP.

Actually it didnt. I posted this article last monday.

Sorry folks only in Portuguese:
http://www.diarioeconomico.com/edici...economia/pt/desarrollo/593080.html

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
WINGS
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Nov 29, 2005 8:38 pm

Quoting FlyPEGASUS (Reply 1):
About the A330:
And in the article you mention, I read again about 8 A330 (3 in leasing) and not 7 as stated in Airbus homepage. Do you know why these numbers don't match? From where is that 8th A330 expected to come?

Hi FlyPEGASUS,

As I understand it, Taps original order was for 10x A350 + 5 options and 7x A330 + 1 option.

I would believe that Tap has indeed excercised 2x A350 options and 1X A330.

The only confusion this whole order is giving me is the fact of those 3 leased A330. Are they going to be new build or are they going to be the (3 Ex Bluewings)

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
A360
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:43 pm

This is great news! Big grin
 
CV990
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:02 pm

Hi!

I noticed that if TAP get's those 3 leased A330-200's, and if those ones are the BlueWings, it will be quite disturbing for me seeing TAP flying A330-200's with TWO DIFFERENT kinds of engines (P&W and GE)... I can't believe that and I don't think Mr. Fernando Pinto who is "an aviation guy" would stand for that!!! I say this because TAP will certainly choose the GE engines for both A330-200/A350's!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
FlyPEGASUS
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:32 am

Hi,



Quoting WINGS (Reply 6):
The only confusion this whole order is giving me is the fact of those 3 leased A330. Are they going to be new build or are they going to be the (3 Ex Bluewings)


Thanks WINGS, about the 7+1 A330 explanation!! This (+1) was new to me. About your question and has I see it is: The 7+1 A330 will be new built from wich 3 of them will be in Leasing. These ones are schedulet to arrive starting on 2007.

So what are the PW powered 3 Ex Blue Wings doing in here.
1- If I'm not mistaken one A310 (CS-TEZ) will leave TAP's fleet this december followed by two others A310 in the 1st semester of 2006 (CS-TEX and CS-TEW, please someone correct me on this).
2- At the same time we have heard that TAP needs not only more seat capacity, but also more planes, to be able to increase it's long haul flights already for 2006 (since the current fleet is already "over used");
3- And also I know TAP is recruiting new pilots and cabin crew, meaning a possible increase in flights (only possible with a bigger fleet);

So in the short term (meaning 2006) TAP will need at least 3 A330 to replace those A310 leaving the fleet, and if they whant to increase the fleet they will need further one or two more A330 (that could possibly be those already referred from Lufthansa also available). All these are PW powered, so I think these 3 or 5 A330 (2nd hand) will come has an interim solution until the arrival of those 7+1 new Built from Airbus.

Quoting CV990 (Reply 8):
it will be quite disturbing for me seeing TAP flying A330-200's with TWO DIFFERENT kinds of engines (P&W and GE)...

Yes but that will be a temporary situation since TAP desperatly need new planes and there aren't much available in the market. I think this is what will happen until these PW A330 start to be replaced by the new built ones (GE powered)

Quoting CV990 (Reply 8):
I say this because TAP will certainly choose the GE engines for both A330-200/A350's!

I Agree with you!!


One question I still have (if this scenario is true) is which planes will first leave the fleet in 2007 with the arrival of the new GE powered A330: The last 3 remaining A310 or the PW A330?

Best Regards

[Edited 2005-11-29 17:46:59]
 
CV990
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:26 pm

Hi!

I would expect TAP to replace the older A310-300's first and of course CS-TEZ. I think maybe TAP will keep the 2 A310-300 they painted with the new livery a bit longer just to keep the image going! That's my feeling! Regarding the arrival of the brand new A330-200 I think TAP will finnish the widrawn of the A310-300 has fast has they can and then the first ex: A330-200's will leave according to the arrival of the brand new ones!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
flyAUA
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:40 am

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):

That's great news to hear it's finally "firm". Thanks for sharing!

That's one hell of a discount... (if my maths are not cheating me in the range of 40-53%) If I ever buy an aircraft I'll make sure I'm a launch customer Big grin
Not drinking, also isn't a solution!
 
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yyz717
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:59 am

aerotransport database reports the 10x A350 order as:
6x 358
4x 359
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
boeingbus
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:01 pm

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 12):
4x 359

If this is the case, TP may very well be the launch customer. That is the first, right?
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
FlyPEGASUS
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:42 pm

Hi,

Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 12):
aerotransport database reports the 10x A350 order as:
6x 358
4x 359

Thanks for the info!

That is for the original order of 10 A350, but TAP has already decided to exercise two extra options taking the order up to 12 A350.

Does anyone knows if those 2 extra A350 will be A358 or A359?

Regards.
 
art
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:33 pm

Quoting N1786b (Reply 3):
A Airbus pode vir a fabricar em Portugal alguns dos componentes dos aviões da empresa. O anúncio foi feito pelo administrador-delegado da TAP durante a cerimónia de assinatura do contrato para a compra de aviões para a frota de longo curso da TAP.

OK, my Portuguese is not brilliant but something interests me here:

"Airbus could be manufacturing some of the components of the company's aircraft in Portugal. The announcement was made by the administrative delegate of TAP during the contract signing ceremony for the purchase of aircraft for TAP's long haul fleet."

Does it mean components for all A350's would be manufactured in Portugal or just components for TAP's A350's?
 
FlyPEGASUS
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:56 pm

Hi Art,

Your translation was very accurate.

It is not a matter of translation because in Portuguese this sentence it is not clear either.
The way it's written "...componente dos aviões da empresa (components of the company's aircraft )" can mean both Airbus or TAP.

I'll try to check this article with other source to see if we can clear this out. But for what its worth, I think it means Airbus.

Regards,
 
boeingbus
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:05 pm

Quoting Art (Reply 15):
Does it mean components for all A350's would be manufactured in Portugal or just components for TAP's A350's?

I bet this is the main reason why this government owned airline is buying Airbus A350. The 787 would have been a better fit for TP as a A310 replacement.

I guess you can't blame TP/government as this will create aerospace industry jobs that Portugal needs. I would have probably done the same...

The only issue is that TP may have too much 'plane' with the A350??? I guess time will tell whether they can fit 20% more seats on the A332/358 compared to the A310... I hope they don't go back to the days of over capacity with the L1011. Good luck!

Cheers,

Ric
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
FCKC
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:03 am

Congratulations for TAP.

A little bit out of this topic , as mentionned above the number of A350 (firm + commiments) is 157 , and Airbus saying they will sell 200 before yearend (still 25 days) , thus 43 are still missing.
Surely Airbus when they declared that , was aware , Emirates will NOT order the plane this year.Even if EI place their order before Dec31st and perhaps SU , the right number will not be reached , so perhaps............Qantas.......
Anyway the answer will come tomorrow , when the Australian airline will say what they have chosen.



.
 
CV990
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:37 am

Hi!

Well, it is my understanding that TAP is receiving 8 A330-200's, so it would be quite normal that TAP would get those extra 2 A350 the model 800!!!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
PM
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:45 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 17):
The 787 would have been a better fit for TP as a A310 replacement.

Don't make the mistake of assuming that airlines will always replace one model with a similarly sized alternative. Airlines fly planes for many years. They buy them for one market but end up using them on others. The market changes. When they come to replace planes they have the opportunity to resize. Airlines fly seats, not aeroplanes; they measure yield, not raw capacilty.

EI replaced 747s on their transatlantic routes with A333s. SR replaced A310s on the ZRH-LHR route with A321s. SR used to fly an A310 daily to MAN from ZRH. Now LX fly three RJ100s daily. I used to fly on an SR MD81 from ZRH to BHX. Latterly, the same service has been on an ERJ-145.

When TAP (or anyone else) replace A310s they don't necessarily want or need an alternative of the same size. It might work out that way but it's also an opportunity to resize the operation to increase profitability.
 
BoomBoom
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:06 am

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
So now we have the following orders for the A350.

Qatar Airways 60
Tap Portugal 12
Tam 8
Air Europa 10
Eurofly 3
Kingfisher 5
US Airways 20
Gecas 10
CIT 5
ILFC 12
ALAFCO 12

Why do you keep posting this list? Other than Qatar, that's a pretty sorry looking list of customers, in my opinion.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
Amy
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:19 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 21):

Why do you keep posting this list? Other than Qatar, that's a pretty sorry looking list of customers, in my opinion.

Why's that?

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 21):
From United States

Oh, ok. Question answered.

157 orders/commitments for an aircraft that won't even fly for another four years or so is pretty good.
A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
 
BoomBoom
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting Amy (Reply 22):
Why's that?

Where are the high profile customers?

Air Europa 10
Eurofly 3
Kingfisher 5

Sorry, I'm not impressed.

Other than Qatar, the biggest order is from US Airways and Airbus had to bribe them to take those.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
PM
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:36 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 21):
Why do you keep posting this list? Other than Qatar, that's a pretty sorry looking list of customers, in my opinion.

What a bizarre thing to say. Four leasing companies - including the two big ones - is a pretty fair start. TAM is a robustly healthy airline on the up (as Varig declines). Kingfdisher is quite an unknown quantity but wh's to say it won't do what Emirates / Qatar / Etihad have done? TAP is a credible European flag carrier. Air Europa is profitable.

Is USAir a bit fragile? OK, so is NW and their order for 787s.
Air Europa? Read Blue Panorama or First Choice and the 787.
TAP is just a minor flag carrier? Read LOT and Ethiopian with the 787.

OK, Airbus still lack more than one big blue chip airline (of which Boeing now have a fair few on board the 787) but the A350 hasn't been around as long.

I'm not denigrating the 787's masterful launch and dramatic sales success any more than I'm serving as an A350 apologist. (There's no need to.) But the list is only "sorry" if that's the mind-set you bring to the debate.
 
A319XFW
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:44 am

High-profile nowadays doesn't matter as much as it used to.... FR wasn't high-profile when they started off, look at them now.
And there are still some high-profile airlines in Chapter 11....

A sale is a sale (and then later money in the bank). Orders are posted by value and numbers, not by the profile. A customer is a customer..
 
BoomBoom
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:51 am

Quoting PM (Reply 24):
Four leasing companies - including the two big ones - is a pretty fair start.

Unfortunately those big leasing companies placed little orders.

When I see Wings constantly boasting with this list, I just have to smile.

[Edited 2005-12-06 20:02:08]
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
PDPsol
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:05 am

There is one more POTENTIAL A350 client that has not been mentioned yet: Air Madrid [IATA:NM]. Two weeks ago, a Spanish business paper, 'Gaceta Mercantil', reported NM was negotiating with Airbus and Boeing for the A350 and the B787.

The Chairman of NM stated the carrier strongly preferred the A350 over the B787 and planned to order 10 examples.

Also, the 'quality' of the client list is completely subjective here. US and UX are high-quality carriers. US emerged from bankruptcy in September with a greatly-improved capital structure, good liquidity, larger size with the addition of HP's operations and expectations to realize net earnings in 2006.

UX is a profitable member of SkyTeam and JJ is the LARGEST domestic cabotage carrier in Brazil, with a rapidly-expanding international network to such destinations as EZE, SCL, CDG, MIA annd JFK. Rumors regarding negotiations for JJ's entry into oneWorld have existed for some time now.

TP is a member of StarAlliance with a long, decorated operating history.

Plus, one must take into consideration other carriers currently negotiating orders for the A350, including:

IB
QF [most likely for Boeing]
EK [ditto if 787-10 is approved]

Granted several large, international carriers have chosen the B787 over the A350, including AC, CX and NW.
 
PM
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:14 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 26):
Unfortunately those big leasing companies placed little orders.

You mean like the 4 (count them - FOUR) 777s that ILFC ordered in the five years after the programme was launched? They've now ordered 75 777s over the years since that first order in December 1992. Where will ILFC orders for the A350 be after 13 years? You don't know any more than I do.

GECAS, by the way, didn't order the 777 until 2000 (and still haven't ordered the 787). They've so far bought 18 777s in fifteen years. Ten orders for the A350 from GECAS already doesn't look so "sorry" by comparison.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 26):
little orders...

Seems like everything's relative. Give in?  Smile
 
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airportugal310
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:35 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 23):
Other than Qatar, the biggest order is from US Airways and Airbus had to bribe them to take those.

Another one to jump on the US Airways bribery bandwagon....with no proof or fact to back it up.
I sell airplanes and airplane accessories
 
dhefty
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:04 am

ILFC pretty much signs up to everything Airbus offers (except for the A340-500). They are by far the largest customer for Airbus, and have been instrumental in the success that Airbus has enjoyed. Some interesting facts about ILFC:

o largest customer for the A319 - 149 units
o largest customer for the A320 - 198 units
o largest customer for the A321 - 81 units
o largest customer for the A330-200 - 66 units
o second largest customer (after NW) for the A330-300 - 26 units
o third largest customer (after LH, IB) for the A340-200/300 - 16 units
o fourth largest customer for the A340-600
o the only leasing company to order the A380

In all, ILFC has ordered 586 aircraft from Airbus! The next closest is US Airways/America West, now merged with 260 (the largest airline customer).

ILFC also has the distinction of having the largest backlog - 191 units.
 
BoomBoom
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:12 am

Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 29):
Another one to jump on the US Airways bribery bandwagon.

The definition of bribe from dictionary.com

1. Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct.
2. Something serving to influence or persuade.

So I would say bribery is an apt description of what occurred here.

Quoting PM (Reply 28):
Ten orders for the A350 from GECAS already doesn't look so "sorry" by comparison.

Twenty orders for the 787 by ILFC looks better.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
A319XFW
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:13 am

The complicated matter is, do the 260 of US Airways/America West all belong to them, or are some leased.... Then you could probably reduce some of that and add them to a leasor or two (possibly ILFC or GECAS?)
 
BoomBoom
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:17 am

Quoting PM (Reply 28):
Seems like everything's relative. Give in? Smile

What do you mean by "give in"?

Swap Boeing's 787 order book for Airbus' A350 order book?

No way, dude!
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
PM
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:38 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 33):
What do you mean by "give in"?

What I mean is, retract your silly comment about leasing companies ordering "little numbers" of the A350. As I think I've demonstrated, leasing companies have traditionally ordered modest numbers of widebodies to begin with but have then added to them steadily. Starting with 12 (ILFC) and 10 (GECAS) is historically something of a vote of confidence in the A350. You, of course, will believe otherwise and facts are unlikely to cloud your judgement. If it makes you feel happier... Whatever. Bed-time on this side on the Atlantic. Tschuss!
 
BoomBoom
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:09 am

Quoting PM (Reply 34):
As I think I've demonstrated, leasing companies have traditionally ordered modest numbers of widebodies to begin with but have then added to them steadily.

Well as you say:

Quoting PM (Reply 28):
Where will ILFC orders for the A350 be after 13 years? You don't know any more than I do.

Pleasant dreams...
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
art
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:40 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 21):
Other than Qatar, that's a pretty sorry looking list of customers, in my opinion

ILFC is in the list. What magnitude do you have to be to avoid being "a pretty sorry" customer?
 
BoomBoom
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:11 am

Quoting Art (Reply 36):
ILFC is in the list. What magnitude do you have to be to avoid being "a pretty sorry" customer?

Does an ILFC order for 12 A350s have the same magnitude as an ANA 787 order for 50? Or a JAL order for 50? Or an AC order for 60?
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
CV990
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:22 am

Hi!

Bombom, at least TAP has not filled Chap. 11 like UA, DL, NW and US!!!! TAP might be small but our history can tell a lot about us!!! Maybe you don't know but TAP was:

- First airline with an all jet fleet in 1967
- Safest airline in the world in 1978
- Pioneer in flying from Lisboa to Lourenço Marques with C-47 in 6 days in 1946
- First airline to order from aircraft manufacturers ( Aerospatiale ) a special lay-out cockpit for their Caravelles

So next time you talk about TAP show a little respect, we might be small but we have our pride!!!
You should pay more attention to aviation in USA, that's were the problems are!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
BoomBoom
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:31 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 38):
Bombom, at least TAP has not filled Chap. 11 like UA, DL, NW and US!!!!

I'm sure TAP is a very nice little airline.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
boeingbus
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RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:46 am

Quoting PM (Reply 20):
Don't make the mistake of assuming that airlines will always replace one model with a similarly sized alternative.

787-8 is larger than the A310, so it would have been a modest capacity increase where the 350 is a substantial increase in passengers. Not sure the current load factors so maybe they sell out their A310 flights all the time and require all this capacity. If so, than the A350 is needed to replace the A310.... but I don't think that is the case. I guess we will soon find out when they roll out the A332. Maybe some Portuguese folks on here can give us some info on the current loads.

Quoting CV990 (Reply 38):
Bombom, at least TAP has not filled Chap. 11 like UA, DL, NW and US!!!!

Well, TP never filed Chap 11... Picture this... If TP experiences another over capacity/route issue that it had in the early 90's and with the current EU laws it most definitely would go bankrupt. Look, each time TP experienced hard times the government went in and bailed TP out with money and new Airbus aircraft.

TP could use a nice restructuring. They could use some efficiency in their fleet maintenance and management. A new airport is needed most of all...

I would imagine other EU airlines are looking at TP's sucesses and most likely will compete head to head. So see some pricing pressures. AF/KLM and BA representing their respective alliances will most likely compete for NE Brazil.

Yes, its small country and TP serves their population well. Better than most other airlines with the same demographics. But I think your comparison to these mega carriers in the United States is not fair in any way, shape or form. Comparing apples to oranges and each have their own issues.

Just my 2 cents.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:59 pm

Hi!

Yeah, you're right, very nice little airline that have been is the business since 1945, but I've nice big US airlines beeing down over the "sewer pipe" like Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am, TWA and maybe in a few years any of those I've mentioned!!! So that's why Airbus is proud to have TAP has a top-level airline who ordered the A350!!!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4044
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:15 pm

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 37):
Does an ILFC order for 12 A350s have the same magnitude as an ANA 787 order for 50? Or a JAL order for 50?

No, it has a higher magnitude, as a Japanese airline ordering the 787 is pretty much granted (for reasons better left out of thsi thread about TAP).

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 40):
Not sure the current load factors so maybe they sell out their A310 flights all the time and require all this capacity.

Believe it or not, even with all the capacity it can get hard to find a Portugal-Brasil flight so I would imagine they have very good load factors.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
WINGS
Topic Author
Posts: 2312
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:15 pm

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 21):
Why do you keep posting this list? Other than Qatar, that's a pretty sorry looking list of customers, in my opinion.

Well BoomBoom, am contributing to the forum. I placed a list so that all members can get a better understanding into the A350 and its oders up to now.

Quoting Amy (Reply 22):
157 orders/commitments for an aircraft that won't even fly for another four years or so is pretty good.

Indeed 157 orders/commitments so far are very good numbers. Many members on this forum had a hard time believing that Airbus would be abel to gather such number in such a short period of time. I for one was one of those.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 26):

Unfortunately those big leasing companies placed little orders.

When I see Wings constantly boasting with this list, I just have to smile.

Well BoomBoom am glad I put a smile on your face  Wink

Quoting AirPortugal310 (Reply 29):
Another one to jump on the US Airways bribery bandwagon....with no proof or fact to back it up.

Yes this has become yet another urban myth on Airliners.net

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 31):

The definition of bribe from dictionary.com

1. Something, such as money or a favor, offered or given to a person in a position of trust to influence that person's views or conduct.
2. Something serving to influence or persuade.

So I would say bribery is an apt description of what occurred here.

Well BoomBoom why not try to explain the definition of bribery to all the US Airlines employees that were at a risk of loosing their jobs? If I was you I would be pleased that Airbus had a part in bailing out US Airlines.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 39):
I'm sure TAP is a very nice little airline.

THE BIGGER THEY ARE THE HARDER THEY FALL Think about it  Wink

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 40):
787-8 is larger than the A310, so it would have been a modest capacity increase where the 350 is a substantial increase in passengers. Not sure the current load factors so maybe they sell out their A310 flights all the time and require all this capacity. If so, than the A350 is needed to replace the A310.... but I don't think that is the case. I guess we will soon find out when they roll out the A332. Maybe some Portuguese folks on here can give us some info on the current loads.

The size difference between the A350-800 and the B787-800 is not that significant. Am sure that Tap has done their homework in relation to this. Cargo is also going to be another major factor. The A350 will allow Tap to explore this market even more.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
FlyPEGASUS
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:24 am

RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:02 pm

Hi!

I would like to make a remark:

The subject of this discussion forum was "TAP A350 ORDER UPDATE"!!!!

Why, there are always some elements that "hijack" the subject and "divert" it into the boring and fastidious "Airbus vs. Boeing" or "Europe vs. America"???

I've seen this happen in other different forums that started to be interesting with serious discussions and contributions and than turned into empty discussions of Airbus vs. Boeing

Please stick to the subject!!
I'm sure that there are other discussion forums going on, where the "Boeing vs. Airbus ping-pong game" is the dish of the day, without having to change the subject of any discussion forums.

Regards to all
 
PM
Posts: 4819
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:47 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 21):
Why do you keep posting this list? Other than Qatar, that's a pretty sorry looking list of customers, in my opinion.

Is Finnair another "sorry" customer?  Smile
 
BoomBoom
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:31 am

Quoting PM (Reply 45):
Is Finnair another "sorry" customer?

Finnair is a nice little airline.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
PM
Posts: 4819
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:05 pm

RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:20 am

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 39):
I'm sure TAP is a very nice little airline.



Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 46):
Finnair is a nice little airline.

So that makes, let me see, two "nice little airlines". Gosh, if I didn't know better the word 'patronising' would come to mind.
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:04 am

Hi!

BoomBoom, you should "light a candle and worship" that little airline called TAP! Do you know why??? You look like a guy that likes Boeing, well let me tell you something, TAP was the 2nd. airline in Europe to operate the 727-100 after LH from 1965 on, and maybe you don't know this ( yeah I'm sure you didn't knew this because TAP in your "short vision eyes" is just a nice little airline... ) but TAP 727 operation specially in Funchal/Madeira Islands with a very short runway at that time and also in Europe and also in Africa opened a market for the 727 with other airlines that gave great sucess to this Boeing model for many years!!! Another thing about this nice little airline called TAP is the fact that when they ordered from Lockheed the L1049G-82 Super Constellation 3 TAP crews went to Burbank to make the course and they were the best airline there! On the final chapter of the course they went to TWA to see the procedures of the airline and they argued that some of them were not the best ones for the safety of the operation of the aircraft specially during take-offs!!!! TWA refused the TAP argument and the story ended there... well at least with the TWA! Latter and after a few accidents with the aircraft ( with TWA included in that list... ) Lockheed did a worldwide visit to all Constellation/Super Constellation operators and when they got to TAP and make the revision of the procedures they were amazingly surprised to see that TAP was already using their procedures without even knowing that Lockheed was introducing those ones too!!! Of course you can imagine how impressed Lockheed was with the pilots and TAP...... yeah that nice little airline!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
BoomBoom
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: TAP A350 Order Update.

Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:36 am

Quoting Neilking (Reply 49):
BoomBoom, you're a patronising "little" git who brings this website into disrepute with your hysterically pro-Boeing posts.

Neil, your post wasn't nice.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...