FCKC
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:34 am

http://today.reuters.fr/news/newsArt...OPE-AIRBUS-US-AIRWAYS-20051129.XML

Sorry in French.20 A350s for US AW for delivery between 2011 and 2013.
 
BMIFlyer
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:38 am

I have translated it to English  Wink

PARIS (Reuters) - Airbus announces that the American airline company US Airways transformed into control firm an undertaking to buy of 20 Airbus A350, the planes being deliverable between 2011 and 2014. On the basis of price catalogues, purely codes, this contract represents some three billion dollars. In last May, the European airframe manufacturer, subsidiary of EADS and BAE Systems had agreed to support financially US Airways by granting to him a loan of 250 million dollars, in exchange of an engagement of the airline company relating to the purchase of 20 A350.

Thanks


Lee
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NYC777
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:41 am

I think this is old news. I believe it's been on Airbus Orders and deliveries web site since last month.

http://www.airbus.com/odxml/orders_and_deliveries.xls

As of Oct. 31, 2005.

[Edited 2005-11-29 17:45:03]
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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EA CO AS
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:44 am

I'm not sure how much back-patting should be going on in Toulouse over this order - they've essentially bribed an airline into buying their product.

Put another way, if GM offers to pay my mortgage for a year in exchange for me buying one of their cars in five years, I'm not sure people would look at this as a ringing endorsement of GM quality - there was obviously other motivation to be considered.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
NYC777
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:45 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 3):
there was obviously other motivation to be considered.

Very true. You hit it right on the head.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
boeingbus
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:08 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 3):
- they've essentially bribed an airline into buying their product.

US was not bribed to do anything. Look, US signed a contract for planes with Airbus. Airbus was just simply nice enough to help them out during this rough patch.

US could have asked the court to throw out that contract - but didn't. Therefore, US was just as interested as Airbus in getting the A350 and a loan.

This is a win-win for Airbus and US.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
keesje
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:23 am

I don't know the details of the deal, however I doubt a loan of 250 million dollars could make or break such a big deal for such a big airline.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
columbia107
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:23 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 5):
This is a win-win for Airbus and US.

Provided US survives and prospects at the moment are that "the jury is out".
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mariner
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:26 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 3):
they've essentially bribed an airline into buying their product.

Boeing and Airtran doesn't count?

cheers

mariner
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JetMaster
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:29 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 3):
I'm not sure how much back-patting should be going on in Toulouse over this order - they've essentially bribed an airline into buying their product.

US could have rejected it, they were not forced to accept it. They could have raised the money elsewhere.

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 5):
This is a win-win for Airbus and US.

Exactly. And it's not as if Airbus had talked them into an A380 order...


Regards,
JM
The Journey is my Destination
 
D L X
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:29 am

Would Boeing have ponied up $250M in loans for US?
 
grantcv
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:32 am

I don't understand why Airbus requires government assistance for the A350, yet they can afford to lend money to their customers in return for orders. That seems a roundabout way of getting European subisidies for a US airline.
 
jumbojet
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:34 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 5):
Look, US signed a contract for planes with Airbus. Airbus was just simply nice enough to help them out during this rough patch.

which essentially spells out, BRIBE
 
jumbojet
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:36 am

Airbus gives the impression that they will do AYTHING for a contract. Much like a little leauge team you may have been on that will do ANYTHING to win!  Big grin
 
Scorpio
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:37 am

And the Sh*t hits the fan, yet again. Way to go boys!
 
D L X
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 11):
That seems a roundabout way of getting European subisidies for a US airline.

Where's the outrage?! [edit:  Smile ]

Seriously, when you put it that way, it sounds like there should be more than a few Europeans pissed off about this money going to an American firm. But then again, Airbus does have suppliers outside of Europe. While there may be an argument made that these suppliers are receiving European subsidies, the primary effect is still to better the situation for Europeans.

(Other countries play this game too. No harm, no foul.)

[Edited 2005-11-29 18:55:07]
 
cloud4000
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:41 am

First aircraft isn't set to arrive until 2011, what will US do until the mean time? They need more aircraft now if they want to expand transatlantic service, and the 767s aren't getting any younger. Does US have a stop-gap plan until the 350s arrive?
Boston, USA
 
boeingbus
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:46 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 12):
which essentially spells out, BRIBE

LOL - a bribe is when someone has to act on something or suffer a negative consequence if not followed through. What negative consequence will US suffer? Getting the new efficient jet in 10 years???

Gosh, if this is a bribe... your on crack.
Airbus or Boeing - it's all good to me!
 
Leskova
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:50 am

Quoting Grantcv (Reply 11):
I don't understand why Airbus requires government assistance for the A350, yet they can afford to lend money to their customers in return for orders. That seems a roundabout way of getting European subisidies for a US airline.

Who said anything about Airbus requiring government assistance? If it's available, they'll take it - but, on several occasions, they've made it quite clear that they'd go ahead with the A350 one way or the other.

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 12):
which essentially spells out, BRIBE

I'll just quote Mariner here: Boeing and Airtran doesn't count?

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 13):
Airbus gives the impression that they will do AYTHING for a contract. Much like a little leauge team you may have been on that will do ANYTHING to win!

And again, I'll just quote Mariner: Boeing and Airtran doesn't count?

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 14):
And the Sh*t hits the fan, yet again. Way to go boys!

Well, I guess that you, just like me, were not surprised - right?

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
Where's the outrage?!

What outrage? Why should there be outrage? In the end (if everything works out), Airbus will profit from the deal. And from that, Airbus' employees and, by that, Europe - or the countries where Airbus and its suppliers have plants - will profit (after all, Airbus Employees do pay income taxes).

So where's the reason for outrage?

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
JetMaster
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:53 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 15):
Seriously, when you put it that way, it sounds like there should be more than a few Europeans pissed off about this money going to an American firm.

Nobody is pissed off about a deal which may result in profits for Airbus in the end.

Germany just financed a third of some new submarines (one third = EUR 300+ million) destined for Israel - now that's questionable. Or the billions which are wasted for farm subsidies every year and every year.


Regards,
JM
The Journey is my Destination
 
D L X
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:54 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 18):
So where's the reason for outrage?

Oh, there isn't any. I was trying to be sarcastic. I'll edit for clarity.
 
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mariner
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:56 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
Would Boeing have ponied up $250M in loans for US?

Why not? They did it for Airtran:

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/stories/2001/05/14/daily43.html

There is nothing illegal about it, it isn't a bribe, it is just good business dealing.

cheers

mariner
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NW727251ADV
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:59 am

So where exactly does bankrupt US Airways intend on flying long-range, high capacity A350s on a limited international network??? From what I've read on A.net US can barely justify having a fleet of A330s.
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D L X
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:01 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
Why not? They did it for Airtran:

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/s....html

Then I would agree that it's simply good business dealing, and characterizing it as a bribe is misplaced. Although, I imagine that Boeing may have had to offer more than $250M to convince US to ever buy Boeing again, even with the new management.
 
NW727251ADV
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:06 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 21):
it isn't a bribe, it is just good business dealing.

 spit  OMG I almost choked on my coffee. Good business dealing??? In what world? The Barg Spiral Galaxy of the Lacivious Drakos Border??? Airbus basically took advantage of someone who was down for their benefit. Did US Airways really have too many other options but to say "Yes"?  sarcastic 

BTW, I would have preferred Air Train getting A320s.  bigthumbsup 
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:08 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 3):
Put another way, if GM offers to pay my mortgage for a year in exchange for me buying one of their cars in five years, I'm not sure people would look at this as a ringing endorsement of GM quality

To me, this is the key issue right here. Airbus is in need of high-profile orders for the A350 and counts US Airways among them. The idea is that by showing they've got orders, well obviously those airlines must think this plane is a winner.

The problem here is that obviously a big part of the motivation to buy the A350 is the $250MM loan from Airbus - where they're essentially buying almost two planes for them outright.

Again, this can't be construed as a big win for Airbus, since it really doesn't scream, "This company bought the plane solely on its merits."
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
JetMaster
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:13 am

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 22):
So where exactly does bankrupt US Airways intend on flying long-range, high capacity A350s on a limited international network???

Since when have they been bankrupt? They were still in business last weekend and even yesterday when they flew me back to MUC...  Wink

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 22):
From what I've read on A.net US can barely justify having a fleet of A330s.

You better shouldn't believe all the stuff on a.net. Their A333s are usually well filled on the trunk routes, and so are the B762 (with seasonal variation - which affects any carrier). The A350 will directly replace the A333 fleet and provide growth over the B762 - remember: international air traffic is still expected to grow, so why not replace a current type with a larger one in six years?


Regards,
JM
The Journey is my Destination
 
B707321C
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:17 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 3):
I'm not sure how much back-patting should be going on in Toulouse over this order - they've essentially bribed an airline into buying their product.

Bribing is not legal in US or EU. I am sure Airbus just offered a better package than the competetion, plan and simple.

It kind of naive to say that this is bribery. Would you say that if you bought a GM SUV with 0% financing, you where bribed to buy the truck.
 
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mariner
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:17 am

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 24):
Did US Airways really have too many other options but to say "Yes"?   

Absolutely, they did, and still do. They have strict performance guarantees on the A350 compared to the 787. LCC (HP/US) can walk away if they are not met - without damage to the loan.

Equally, all parties in the HP/US merger said they needed $1.5 billion for it to happen. Airbus provided $250 million of that.

However, since it was announced, the entity has raised about another $350 million - which means they don't need the Airbus money at all, and could walk away from it.

I note also that no one is "outraged" that PARS Capital invested in the deal in order to get maintenance work - to be done by the PARS subsidiary, Air Canada.  Smile

However, my comment about good business dealing was about the Airtran/Boeing deal.

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 24):
BTW, I would have preferred Air Train getting A320s.

After their very bad experiences with the A320's they wet-leased from Ryan International, Airtran might not agree.

cheers

mariner
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D L X
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:19 am

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 22):
bankrupt US Airways

US is not bankrupt. In fact, it's stock has risen 50% in the last 3 months.
 
NW727251ADV
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:23 am

Quoting JetMaster (Reply 26):
Since when have they been bankrupt? They were still in business last weekend and even yesterday when they flew me back to MUC...



Quoting D L X (Reply 29):
US is not bankrupt. In fact, it's stock has risen 50% in the last 3 months

Maybe they're not bankrupt but they're certainly not SQ or EK. I mean, congrats to Airbus because honestly I think I like the A350 a little bit more the 787-8...seems a little more "gutsy"...Boeing seems chicken to make a bigger aircraft but anyway, as B707321C said, you can hardly call this a "big win" because the "superior aircraft" in the minds of US won out.
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StuckInCA
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:23 am

Hasn't this exact conversation/argument been had multiple times already? Many of the posts look like they could have been cut and pasted from prior threads about this transaction. While this transaction does match the description of "bribe" in the dictionary (which doesn't require that it's illegal), I don't really see what the big deal is. Airbus has taken a gamble. Maybe it will pay off, maybe not. As Mariner has pointed out countless times in countless threads, Boeing has done the same thing in the past. I wish we could all just move on!
 
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Stitch
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:24 am

I believe GE is helping to finance UA's exit from C11, yet I don't see P&W engines being yanked off the wings and replaced with GE ones.  Wink

Airbus offering US $250 million in exit financing in exchange for a three billion order sure seems like a lot of "arm-twisting" to me.  Yeah sure

It's like my bank loaning me $250,000 to pay off my current mortgage if I promise to then buy a $3 million house from them in five years.  Wink

The A350 makes sense for US, considering they operate A330s and A32xs and HP is also a large Airbus operator. I admit I am surprised NW went with the 787 over the A350, but that might be part of a strategic move should the US SkyTeam members (one of whom has also bought 787s and another who will) should they decide to merge down the road.
 
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mariner
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 31):
I wish we could all just move on!

Oh, you and me both.

Every time it comes up, I assume it is over. But then it comes up again and I have to go to the archives again to find the links (which takes a minute or two).

So now I've put the links in my research folder on my desktop - because you know I'll need them again, the next time it comes up.

I suspect it is one of those aviation legends that will not die.

 Smile

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
RichardPrice
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 22):
So where exactly does bankrupt US Airways intend on flying long-range, high capacity A350s on a limited international network??? From what I've read on A.net US can barely justify having a fleet of A330s.

Yeah, because they are going to be in EXACTLY the same position in 7 years time when they get the aircraft and have to pay for them. Theres absolutely no chance at all that their situation will improve in the intevening period, despite it having done so recently.

Theres no such thing as forward planning in this business, noone at these airlines know anything about business plans or longterm investments while the bog standard airliners.net poster knows much more about the internal financial status of a company.

Yup, thats it all right.

Dammit, wheres the sarcasm tag?!
 
jumbojet
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:38 am

Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 17):
Gosh, if this is a bribe... your on crack.

Accorind to websters dictionary, it is not a BRIBE but what A did was essentially leave them with no choice but to order A metal. Maybe they were coerced into it. I dont know
 
starrion
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:40 am

All things considered, I don't have a problem with a European company paying a couple hundred million dollars to a struggling US airline. Keeps the airline in business paying thousands of Americans an important weekly paycheck, and it gets travellers a cheaper fare because there is more airlines vying for that route.

All that for the promise to take 20 planes in six years.

Whether US is around in six years is another matter. It is difficult to merge two healthy entities in the best of times. Merging a near-corpse to a semi-healthy entity during this brutally competitive timespan should prove .... interesting.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
Cactus739
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 22):
So where exactly does bankrupt US Airways intend on flying long-range, high capacity A350s on a limited international network???

US ain't bankrupt no more....

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 22):
From what I've read on A.net US can barely justify having a fleet of A330s.

Don't believe 1/3 of the things you read on here.
You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
 
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mariner
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:43 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 35):
what A did was essentially leave them with no choice but to order A metal.

I know this is a shocking concept for some, but there is also the possibility that they actually wanted to order the A350. They do fly the A330, after all.

And, as launch customer, which is what they are, they get the launch customer discount.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
NW727251ADV
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:43 am

Quoting RichardPrice (Reply 34):
Yeah, because they are going to be in EXACTLY the same position in 7 years time when they get the aircraft and have to pay for them. Theres absolutely no chance at all that their situation will improve in the intevening period, despite it having done so recently.

Theres no such thing as forward planning in this business, noone at these airlines know anything about business plans or longterm investments while the bog standard airliners.net poster knows much more about the internal financial status of a company.

Yup, thats it all right.

Dammit, wheres the sarcasm tag?!

All I have to say to this claptrap is don't quit your day job (if you have one) because acting together with sarcasm is not in your list of abilities.
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StuckInCA
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 3:48 am

Quoting Jumbojet (Reply 35):
Quoting BoeingBus (Reply 17):
Gosh, if this is a bribe... your on crack.

Accorind to websters dictionary, it is not a BRIBE but what A did was essentially leave them with no choice but to order A metal. Maybe they were coerced into it. I dont know

I disagree.

According to Webster's Dictionary, here's the definition of bribe:

1 : money or favor given or promised in order to influence the judgment or conduct of a person in a position of trust
2 : something that serves to induce or influence

Unless I'm missing something, this is exactly what has happened here. That said, who cares. It's not illegal is it? It's illegal to bribe politicians or police officers. Is it illegal to gain possible business consideration by making an investment? Oh well. I'm convinced this argument will never end.
 
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EA CO AS
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:04 am

Quoting B707321C (Reply 27):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 3):
I'm not sure how much back-patting should be going on in Toulouse over this order - they've essentially bribed an airline into buying their product.

Bribing is not legal in US or EU. I am sure Airbus just offered a better package than the competetion, plan and simple.

It kind of naive to say that this is bribery. Would you say that if you bought a GM SUV with 0% financing, you where bribed to buy the truck.

It's all semantics, but they're essentially the same. US was given money to enable them to complete their merger...in exchange for orders of the A350. This is classic quid pro quo no matter how you slice it, and satisfies the definition of "bribery."

Do I care about this though? Not at all!

My only point is that this shouldn't be seen as a big win for the A350 program, since these 20 orders come with a big asterisk attached to them.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
RichardPrice
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:05 am

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 39):
All I have to say to this claptrap is don't quit your day job (if you have one) because acting together with sarcasm is not in your list of abilities.

I was actually being mostly serious. US may not have need for the aircraft in this climate, but what do you know about their plans for the next 15 years? What do you know about their finance forcasts for the next 5 years? The airline has 7 years or more to produce a market, and thats more than enough to turn everything around.

People on this forum seem to think that airlines make decisions with absolutely no forsight at all, no planning and no insight into their own business. What do you think the board does, meet at the local MacDonalds and set the direction of the company for the next 10 years over a Big Mac? Thats what makes comments like yours seem totally stupid.
 
Maersk737
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:44 am

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 43):
My comments might "seem" stupid but I can assure you yours "ARE" stupid. Apply this logic to the assholes who destroyed Eastern, PanAm, Braniff, Swissair, Sabena, and countless others.

They were more or less destroyed from inside, they did not need any help from a stupid CEO  bigthumbsup 
I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
 
D L X
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 30):
Maybe they're not bankrupt but they're certainly not SQ or EK.

What does that have to do with anything?

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 43):
My comments might "seem" stupid but I can assure you yours "ARE" stupid. Apply this logic to the assholes who destroyed Eastern, PanAm, Braniff, Swissair, Sabena, and countless others.

1) is this really necessary?
2) US is an airline that was around during the tenure of all those you mention. The distinguishing feature is that unlike those airlines, US faced the same problems and wasn't forced to go out of business. I don't think it's wise to judge the industry by its losers.
3) tangent.
 
MEA330
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:16 am

GE has been financing US and Canadian carriers out of bankrupty and no one has complained on this site(US, Air Canada and Delta).
Air Canada recently selected GenX for 787 was that part of the bribe?
No, same as the US/Airbus deal just a way to help a good customer weather the storm.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:54 am

Who cares about the loans?

Airbus is entitled to confirm, via the media, when an order is firmed, even if they have carried it on the books for a month. Boeing does this with orders such as we recently saw with the ILFC & LcaL 787 orders.

Airbus have stated they'll get 200 commitments for the A350 before year end so this fits with their PR strategy of achieving their stated ambition.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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A342
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:11 am

Quoting Cloud4000 (Reply 16):
First aircraft isn't set to arrive until 2011, what will US do until the mean time? They need more aircraft now if they want to expand transatlantic service, and the 767s aren't getting any younger. Does US have a stop-gap plan until the 350s arrive?

Yes. 9 or 10 A332 arriving from 2007(?). So I somewhat doubt this statement:

Quoting JetMaster (Reply 26):
The A350 will directly replace the A333 fleet

The A333s are quite young to be replaced, even in 2011. Maybe the last ones arriving will replace them. Not even to speak of the newer A332s. I believe the A350s will allow further growth, with the long range of the A358 easily reaching Asia.

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A342
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:32 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 48):
Airbus is entitled to confirm, via the media, when an order is firmed, even if they have carried it on the books for a month. Boeing does this with orders such as we recently saw with the ILFC & LcaL 787 orders.

Agreed. But...

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 48):
Airbus have stated they'll get 200 commitments for the A350 before year end so this fits with their PR strategy of achieving their stated ambition.

...again, 20 of those 200 have a big red asterisk next to them. These weren't purchases made by a company thoroughly impressed with and dying to buy the A350, although they'll certainly spin it that way.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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dhefty
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A350: US Airways Order Firmed Up

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:34 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 48):
Boeing does this with orders such as we recently saw with the ILFC & LcaL 787 orders

Boeing does this for Unidentified Orders, whereas Airbus repeatedly announces orders as new even after the orders have been posted and identified, as this "new order" confirms.

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