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1337Delta764
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DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:08 am

I'm wondering, which merger do you think would work the best?

While neither Delta nor NW have mergers envisioned in their restructuring plans, I think that a Delta-Continental merger would make the most sense in terms of economics, fleet, and hub structure. A Delta-Northwest or a Northwest-Continetal merger would destroy fleet simplification. A merger of two bankrupt carriers IMO has no gurantee of success.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
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STT757
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
I'm wondering, which merger do you think would work the best?

None of them, CO would be better off waiting for one or both of them to go under and then cherry pick the aircraft/routes that suit their needs which would include;

NWA's Narita slots, Delta's 767-400s, Delta's Laguardia slots, Delta's Boston Terminal A, Delta's DCA-LGA-BOS shuttle, Delta's LAX gates, Delta/NWA's DCA slots, Delta's 737-800s.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:20 am

A merger? Oh God. To all NW/CO/DL employees:


BRACE FOR IMPACT ! !
BEND OVER STAY DOWN ! !

Safe Flying  Smile

Lets just hope they restructer, stay independent, continue code sharing.
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:21 am

Would the U.S. government allow a 3-way super merger?
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:24 am

My own little unfounded opinion. NO.

Safe Flying  Smile

What I could see is .

DL/NW
CO/UA

But I know nothing !
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
bobnwa
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:27 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
None of them, CO would be better off waiting for one or both of them to go under and then cherry pick the aircraft/routes that suit their needs which would include;

None of the three including CO have any money to be buying parts of another carrier. All three have lost hundreds of millions of dollars since 9/11 and are still in the hole by that amount. C'Os recent profit did not even make a dent in the amount they have lost in the last few years. Any buying, by any of the three would have to involve borrowing more money. This does not sound like a good idea for any of them.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
None of them, CO would be better off waiting for one or both of them to go under and then cherry pick the aircraft/routes that suit their needs which would include;

NWA's Narita slots...

The japanese govt. isn't interested in seeing those routes sold to another airline. The only way around this would be for another airlined to buy/merge with NW.

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 5):
None of the three including CO have any money to be buying parts of another carrier

Who said they'd have to spend their own money. Look and HP-US.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
MD88Captain
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:39 am

Yeah, look at HP-US. It is ugly, with none of the anticipated efficiency. I feel sorry for the HP employees.
 
deltadude8
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:47 am

Many DL employees think a merger is in the future and most likely with NW. Delta wants Asia and South America...NW wants Europe.
Sure the fleets don't match but that doesnt seem to matter...the DC-10's need to be gone and DL aircraft could replace those easily.

Many of DL's employees see NW as our merging partner- Our CEO is the Merger King...(remember WESTERN AND DELTA???)
 
Kahala777
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 7):
Yeah, look at HP-US. It is ugly, with none of the anticipated efficiency. I feel sorry for the HP employees.

With all due respect this merger of US-HP is a kin to an airline like Aeroflot merging with Olympic. The merger, if and when everything comes into play, is not going to be a very welcome thing. The airline is going to be plagued by a tug of war with unions, seniority, employees, and routes. America West should have stayed as far away from US as possible. US Airways whould have died a long time ago, yet the damn thing still lives on clinging to every life support system it can. Not to mention all the times it went pleading to Washington D.C., for federal help. By rights that federal help should have only been sent to AA/UA, as they were the only airlines directly impacted by 9-11-01.

KAHALA777
 
m404
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:50 am

Restructure wise it seems like NW is following the DL model in a company owned Ground Handling group (GroundCo) except at DTW and MSP to eliminate union rules.

I thought that I'd read that in the agreement on pay for the 40 odd BK advisory team NW hired that a bonus was to be made if a merger was made at the conclusion of Northwests bankruptcy similar to the USAir agreement with their advisors - especially since many are the same exact people.

[Edited 2005-11-29 23:08:59]
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
ord
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:56 am

Quoting Deltadude8 (Reply 8):
Many DL employees think a merger is in the future and most likely with NW. Delta wants Asia and South America...NW wants Europe.

Delta already has South America and Northwest has nothing to offer to expand Delta's reach in that area.
 
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STT757
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 5):
None of the three including CO have any money to be buying parts of another carrier

They (CO) do have credibility amongst the investment community, who would be partners in such transactions.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
CO767FA
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:07 am

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 2):
A merger? Oh God. To all NW/CO/DL employees:


BRACE FOR IMPACT ! !
BEND OVER STAY DOWN ! !

I couldn't have said it any better! Thanks for the laugh....  laughing 
 
Kahala777
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:15 am

Bets are on for the following mergers:

DELTA AIRLINES = NORTHWEST AIRLINES
Alliance: Sky Team
Headquarters: Atlanta
Hubs: Atlanta, Detroit, Salt Lake City
Focus Cities: Minneapolis, New York, Tokyo
Strongest Benefit: Complete coverage of Midwest, South, East Coast, Asia, and Europe.
Weakest: Lack of West Coast service, Lack of Heathrow/Australia presence.
Fleet: 777-200, 787, 757-200, 737-800

Why?

Delta Airlines has one of the most impressive and ever expanding routes structures to South America and Europe, while Northwest Airlines, has the defacto number one US presence in the Asian region, and Midwest. No other airline can claim as much of Americas heartland as Northwest Airilnes can. While Delta Airlines can claim the entire South, and a hearty number of West coast destinations to its own.

The following route adjustments could easily come into play.

CVG-FCO, CVG-CDG, CVG-LGW, CVG-AMS, CVG-FRA - Moved To = DTW-FCO, DTW-CDG, DTW-LGW, DTW-AMS, DTW-FRA

MEM-AMS - Moved To = ATL-AMS

MSP-NRT, MSP-AMS - Moved To = SLC-NRT, SLC-AMS

It has been remarked before that a company, has trademarked the term "Delta Orient", a play on the former Northwest Airlines title of Northwest Orient. The synergy of both airlines is incredible.

One of the greatest downfalls will be the trials of trying to overcome the nasty and persistent unions of both Northwest, and Delta Airlines.

A few notes:

Detroit would replace Delta at Cincinatti.

Atlanta would replace Northwest at Memphis.

UNITED AIRLINES = CONTINENTAL AIRLINES
Alliance: Star Alliance
Headquarters: Chicago
Hubs: Chicago, Houston, Newark, San Francisco
Focus Cities: Denver, Los Angeles, Tokyo, Washington.IAD
Strongest Benefit: Heathrow, Australia, Tokyo, and Combined Networks.
Weakest: Lack of Heathrow to Houston rights
Fleet: 777-300, 777-200, 787, 757-300, 757-200, 737-900, 737-800, 737-700

Why?

Simply put, these two airline although they are competitors have an incredible amount of power when combined. Overnight the two airlines would make American Airlines seem like a far removed distant cousin. The synergy of United Airlines Asian and Australian presence, combined with that of Continental Airlines ever expanding European and Latin presence is much more than impressive to say that least.

The following routes adjustments could easily come into play:

CLE-LGW - Moved To = ORD-LGW

IAD-LHR, IAD-CDG, IAD-ZRH, IAD-FRA, IAD-AMS, IAD-MUC - Moved To = EWR-LHR, EWR-CDG, EWR-ZRH, EWR-FRA, EWR-AMS, EWR-MUC

IAD-GRU, IAD-EZE - Moved To = EWR-GRU, EWR-EZE

A couple of things may prevent the merger of the airlines. To start the airline would control key U.S. markets, and would almost certainly control the Midwest. Also the unions of both Continental and United are some of the most anti-anything new in the country. In addition there could be a huge tug of war as to which airline would maintain a homebase where they currently are.

A few notes:

Denver in most cases would be lost in the shuffle, reduced to nothing more than an overgrown Focus city.

Cleveland, would certainly disappear from the radar in favor of Chicago.

Washington.IAD, would be decreased by huge numbers, and in its place the ever expanding Continental Airlines - Newark World hub.


Of course as each day goes by all the airlines with the exception of Continental Airlines for the most part, bleed millions of dollars...  

KAHALA777

[Edited 2005-11-29 23:45:00]
 
ikramerica
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:22 am

Run CO. Run for the hills!
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Kahala777
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:27 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 15):
Run CO. Run for the hills!

I have said the same thing when I first heard rumors of a CO.UA merger. It would be a shame if Continental Airlines were to marry United. The whole thing reaks, and in many senses has a bad omen. Continental Airlines is the one good thing we have in the US right now, the exception being Southwest Airlines.

KAHALA777
 
ord
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:02 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):
Delta Airlines has one of the most impressive and ever expanding routes structures

It's Delta Air Lines (two words), not Delta Airlines.  Smile
 
Tornado82
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:18 am

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 7):
Yeah, look at HP-US. It is ugly, with none of the anticipated efficiency.

No anticipated efficiency, eh? Tell that to the investors who ran that stock up by about 70% in 6 weeks. I think they'd know a little more than you about the inner workings and financials.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
By rights that federal help should have only been sent to AA/UA, as they were the only airlines directly impacted by 9-11-01.

Oh I'm sorry. USAirways was operating planes on 9/12/01? USAirways was allowed back into DCA by 9/20/01?? USAirways was more heavily impacted than AA/UA even... sure AA/UA lost some metal which insurance paid for, but US lost a focus city which was entirely closed for business for a few weeks after everything else reopened. Where do you think many of those DCA pax went to? UA's IAD hub. All airlines lost business... only one lost a focus city operation for an extended period of time. If anything, due to the government's incompetent handling of the whole situation, all the airlines should have been given MORE money from the Feds, not less.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):

Washington.IAD, would be decreased by huge numbers, and in its place the ever expanding Continental Airlines - Newark World hub.

So you're going to decrease IAD to put more traffic into the zoo known as Newark. Well, the Lehigh-Northampton Aviation Authority will be ecstatic over this news. ABE already picks up diversions from EWR every time the wind blows or a cloud rolls in... including a few today... if you plan on squeezing all of that EWR traffic into that over-capacity under-runwayed mess, you're going to make ABE one of the most prosperous airports in the country just picking up all the diversions from EWR.

I think you've got that entirely backwards... EWR would more likely become an O&D point sort of like LGA/DCA... while East-coast connections and significant amounts of international would continue to go to IAD. While still a crappy airport... an airport with loads more capacity for operations than EWR. Do the words "Simultaneous ILS Approaches" mean anything to you?

Dumping another hub's worth of traffic into EWR would be akin to taking all the PIT hub traffic and moving it to PHL... and we all see how well that turned out... but yet EWR/IAD as a tandem are far busier than PHL/PIT ever were or will be... but yet on a nearly identical airfield at EWR as PHL.
 
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:26 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
I think you've got that entirely backwards... EWR would more likely become an O&D point sort of like LGA/DCA... while East-coast connections and significant amounts of international would continue to go to IAD.

Psst..... New York, is a heck of a lot more O.D. and Premium Traffic rich than Washington D.C. could ever, ever, ever be!

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
If anything, due to the government's incompetent handling of the whole situation, all the airlines should have been given MORE money from the Feds, not less.

Ok, then we can send the bill to you the next time a terrorist attack happens. Seeing as that you seem to be so fast to spend other peoples money on a worthless cause.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
but US lost a focus city which was entirely closed for business for a few weeks after everything else reopened.

Boo freakin Hoo... A Focus City operated by an ignorant and useless airline was shutdown. That airline should have died the first time they went through bankruptcy.

KAHALA777
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:31 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):
MSP-NRT, MSP-AMS - Moved To = SLC-NRT, SLC-AMS

I really could not see MSP being dumped as a hub for SLC. The two do not even cover the same region, MSP is an upper midewest/great plains hub that spans heavily over the Dakotas, Nebraska, Wisconsin Minnesota, Iowa and areas of southern central Canada. SLC is a hub for the intermountain west and west coast.
 
Tornado82
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 19):

Psst..... New York, is a heck of a lot more O.D. and Premium Traffic rich than Washington D.C. could ever, ever, ever be!

Which is why EWR could be more of an O&D point than a connecting hub... just like LGA already is today! You just enhanced the point I was making in your attempt to belittle me. There are hundreds of cities that need service that can't be P2P to anywhere and needs to be hub and spoked, you run THAT traffic to IAD. Think about it... while UA and CO might each have an RJ going to IAD/EWR respectively right now from airport XYZ in the early morning, mid morning, afternoon, and evening to make connections to the rest of the network... you could run one mainline jet at those 4 time frames from XYZ to IAD for all those connections instead. EWR becomes a convenient O&D / P2P airport to access the NYC/Northern Jersey area.

You miss the main point of the post though. EWR is already over capacity... IAD is not, and is growing its airfield. How can you put more traffic at EWR? Where is it going? Float planes?? Meanwhile piss away wide open spaces at IAD. Think about that the next time you fly through EWR (or it's twin at PHL) and are #30 in line for take off. Every plane you add to EWR is one more that needs to wait in approach and take off lines.

As for the rest of your post, it's too ignorant and worthless to warrant keystrokes.
 
isitsafenow
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:51 am

TORNADO82..post 18..In reference to your reply to MD88Captain...I don't think you read the same financials we do. The LATEST word is that the merger may not be all its trumped up to be. Some, but not most, gloom and doom is forecasted. In other words, some wall street wizs(is that a word?) are changing their tune from what was said just days after the announced merger.
safe
If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
 
Kahala777
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:54 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
EWR is already over capacity... IAD is not, and is growing its airfield. How can you put more traffic at EWR?

Yet Continental Airlines is making money hand over fist in its premium cabins to and from Europe and Asia to Newark!

Sacramento is growing its airfield, so should they have a base there to?

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
Meanwhile piss away wide open spaces at IAD

So lets get your idea straight.... Because there is space, use it?.... Funny the same could be said for Indianapolis, Memphis, St. Louis, Kansas City, Baltimore, Orlando, and every other airport in the U.S. with room to expand. Your point kind sir, merits no more conversation.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
Think about that the next time you fly through EWR (or it's twin at PHL)

Newark, you mean one of the best performing airports in the nation? Next time an airline plans new flights to New York such as Singapore, Thai, Malaysia, Qantas, Emirates think that Washington D.C. is of little or no interest to them. The money to be made is in New York, not Washington D.C.

As far as your attempt to put PHL in the same category as EWR... Ask yourself what airport has nonstop service to Stockholm, Hong Kong, Peking, Singapore, Hamburg, Tel Aviv, Honolulu, Anchorage, Oslo, and Delhi.... Your answer is not Washington D.C., is not Philadelphia... It is Newark!

KAHALA777
 
HPRamper
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 9:01 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 19):
Boo freakin Hoo... A Focus City operated by an ignorant and useless airline was shutdown. That airline should have died the first time they went through bankruptcy.

Ehh...that's a bit inappropriate. One could say a lot of airlines "should have died the first time..." including United, Northwest, Delta, hmmm...Continental, ATA, my very own America West...?

Let's see, that leaves Southwest, Frontier, JetBlue, Alaska?

Boy that leaves a lot of capacity, especially international and long-haul.


On the actual thread topic, which has nothing to do with US Airways or HP - CO and DL would never be approved IMO because they would have too much a stranglehold on the South. Maybe DL-NW or CO-NW because those are focused on separate regions. But then you get into fleet configuration, and they just don't fit.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:05 am

Unfortunately, if Delta and Northwest merge, the fleet I think would go the Airbus way, and one of the main reasons I like Delta is their all-Boeing fleet.
The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
 
Tornado82
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:20 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 22):
The LATEST word is that the merger may not be all its trumped up to be. Some, but not most, gloom and doom is forecasted. In other words, some wall street wizs(is that a word?) are changing their tune from what was said just days after the announced merger.

I've read said reports. The stock is still 70% higher than it began 6 weeks ago at, and until it starts dropping back to those initial levels, OR operations/bank balances/customer service significantly deteriorates I'm still convinced that US+HP is successful. But let's face it, from where US was a year ago, they're flying pretty damn high right now, even PHelL isn't as bad as it used to be as they've kept cleaning up some flight schedules and whatnot. And we all know how much I hate PHL.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):

So lets get your idea straight.... Because there is space, use it?.... Funny the same could be said for Indianapolis, Memphis, St. Louis, Kansas City, Baltimore, Orlando, and every other airport in the U.S. with room to expand. Your point kind sir, merits no more conversation.

No let's get YOUR idea straight. You wanted to ADD MORE FLIGHTS to Newark, an airport which is already bulging at the seams and has no concrete expansion plans in place. MY plan was to keep Newark for the O&D traffic it has, deserves, and will never lose. But let's take an example of someone going PIT-MHT... connecting in Newark. Now, they can make that connection anywhere in the eastern US, be it Newark, Dulles, or even freakin Allentown if the flights exist. Newark is already bulging at the seams because of things like 12x RJ's to PIT per day (US/CO combined in this case). If you take SOME of that connecting traffic that is just transient to EWR, and stick them in IAD, maybe then you can get that down to let's say 8x RJ. By doing that over numerous markets in the country, you've cut the congestion at EWR... making it a more efficient airport for both airline and traveler... but yet, you haven't cost your EWR markets a damn thing, because those other people were just CONNECTING there. I'm only looking to remove CONNECTING pax from an already-packed airport. You can see the beginnings of it for US as they moved a couple upstate NY frequencies BACK to PIT from PHL partially because of the same reasons. Don't sing me the frequency song either, there's no need for flights basically drafting off of each other on PIT-EWR or the numerous other markets with that kind of over-frequency. There will still be PLENTY of frequency to go around for the high-yield O&D market.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):

As far as your attempt to put PHL in the same category as EWR... Ask yourself what airport has nonstop service to Stockholm, Hong Kong, Peking, Singapore, Hamburg, Tel Aviv, Honolulu, Anchorage, Oslo, and Delhi.... Your answer is not Washington D.C., is not Philadelphia... It is Newark!

It's the same category when it comes to being over capacity, flight delays, and nearly identical field layouts that can't handle simultaneous parallel ILS approaches. Is anyone saying to take away all the Int'l from EWR? I sure as hell didn't. That domestic connecting traffic is doing nothing but plugging up EWR. There will still be enough domestic flights in and out of EWR to handle the int'l connections. Hell, DL does it with JFK and there are significantly fewer domestic flights there than EWR. Most internationals come in a bank anyways... it'll be very easy to time a domestic connection bank 2 hours on either end of that bank. Or are you just too dense to see that all I'm saying is that transient domestic connecting passengers are the reasons that places like EWR, PHL, ORD, etc. are so overcrowded and that many problems in our air network can be solved by changing the locations where they connect? In no way did I ever say to take away from EWR's O&D market share... but let's be honest... nobody is O&D-ing on the ALB-EWR route, and numerous others like that.
 
Tornado82
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 24):
Maybe DL-NW or CO-NW because those are focused on separate regions. But then you get into fleet configuration, and they just don't fit.

NW seems to be the bastard stepchild either way, unfortunately.
 
Alitalia744
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:30 am

Hopefully any merger will still be called Delta Air Lines.
Some see lines, others see between the lines.
 
milesrich
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:59 am

Delta/Northwest makes plenty of sense. By closing CVG in favor of DTW, and MEM in favor of ATL, the PSM costs drop by replacing the RJ's with mainline aircraft that can be filled with the additional feed. In the meantime, NW's Pacific routes, DL's growing Latin American routes, DL's Atlantic routes seem to make for a good fit. The fleets don't exactly mesh, but the DC-9's and 10's could be retired leaving the 737/747/757/767/777 and the A-320/330's, along with the MD-88's. Paying other carriers a guaranteed profit to operate those RJ's and then saying Comair makes money is just an accounting shell game.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:22 am

DL+AA
CO+UA
NW+US/HP

(Tee hee  Smile)

-Dave
-Dave
 
SBN580
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:31 pm

Quoting Deltadude8 (Reply 8):
Many DL employees think a merger is in the future and most likely with NW. Delta wants Asia and South America...NW wants Europe.
Sure the fleets don't match but that doesnt seem to matter...the DC-10's need to be gone and DL aircraft could replace those easily.

Many of DL's employees see NW as our merging partner- Our CEO is the Merger King...(remember WESTERN AND DELTA???)

As an excercise in route systems this looks good. Though I disagree with some on this thread about DTW over CVG. As a reasonable business plan, I am not so sure. Merge two bankrupt companies into one mega bankrupt company? I remember when my all-time favorite North Central married Southern to form Republic. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but did not pan out. Especially after they adopted Hughes Air West into the family. Great idea to go coast to coast, but just brought even more burden to the bottom line. It would be ironic to me if the descendant of North Central, Northwest, became part of my present day favorite Delta.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 25):
Unfortunately, if Delta and Northwest merge, the fleet I think would go the Airbus way, and one of the main reasons I like Delta is their all-Boeing fleet.

Boeing and McDonnell Douglas! Big grin I like both types. Airbus non!  irked 

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 28):
Hopefully any merger will still be called Delta Air Lines.

As it should be! Though I realize Northwest has the longer history, the word Delta, being direction neutral, is probably more marketable. And it would rid the skies of the present, weird nwa livery with the compass pointing to the northeast on the starboard side of the plane!  banghead  Northwest ruined one the best airline logos ever!
North Central: Good People Made Their Airline Great! FLY MD-90 POWER! Keep 'em Flying DELTA Family!
 
gigneil
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:52 pm

Quoting MD88Captain (Reply 7):
Yeah, look at HP-US. It is ugly, with none of the anticipated efficiency. I feel sorry for the HP employees.

Its not ugly. Its going well, and the efficiencies were predicted to be to years out.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
The airline is going to be plagued by a tug of war with unions, seniority, employees, and routes.

What? The Unions have announced landmark cooperation, the employees are all THRILLED because they're staying in business, and what are you talking about with routes?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 9):
By rights that federal help should have only been sent to AA/UA, as they were the only airlines directly impacted by 9-11-01.

Um, you tell that to all the airlines. That's the stupidest thing I ever heard.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):
CLE-LGW - Moved To = ORD-LGW

Why would you move an LGW route to ORD, which already receives frequent LHR service? Oh, and hotshot, how would you cram more traffic into ORD?

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 14):
MEM-AMS - Moved To = ATL-AMS

There is already plenty of ATL-AMS service, smart guy.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 19):
Psst..... New York, is a heck of a lot more O.D. and Premium Traffic rich than Washington D.C. could ever, ever, ever be!

THAT'S WHY LGW-Luftfahrtgesellschaft Walter (Germany)">HE SAID KEEP NEWARK FOR O/D AND MOVE CONNECTIONS TO LESS CONGESTED WASHINGTON.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 19):
A Focus City operated by an ignorant and useless airline was shutdown.

The most profitable focus city at one of the most profitable US carriers at the time. And you say nobody else was affected by 9/11?

Brilliant. You're a genius.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 23):
Yet Continental Airlines is making money hand over fist in its premium cabins to and from Europe and Asia to Newark!

Way to avoid the question. He said how are you going to fit more traffic into congested Newark? Your answer was something random. Good job.

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 22):
The LATEST word is that the merger may not be all its trumped up to be.

No, it isn't. US is required to disclose potential business challenges, and one of them is that the merger might not work out as well as predicted.

They're doing GREAT so far, and the market is rewarding them handsomely.

N
 
Tornado82
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:21 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 32):
Way to avoid the question. He said how are you going to fit more traffic into congested Newark? Your answer was something random. Good job.

Thanks Gigneil! Glad to see I'm not the only one who thought he was way out in left field somewhere.
 
LawnDart
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:37 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
None of them, CO would be better off waiting for one or both of them to go under and then cherry pick the aircraft/routes that suit their needs which would include;

NWA's Narita slots, Delta's 767-400s, Delta's Laguardia slots, Delta's Boston Terminal A, Delta's DCA-LGA-BOS shuttle, Delta's LAX gates, Delta/NWA's DCA slots, Delta's 737-800s.

I love stuff like this..."none of them", and then you list off all of DL's assets (oh, and one NW asset) except the most profitable one - the ATL hub. And CO is going to come up with the cash how? And CO will be uncontested if they try to acquire any of these assets?

AA has been chomping at the bit to acquire NRT slots and a "real" NE shuttle for years...and they have far more cash, far more political savvy and far more executive brain power than previously bankrupt, but still heavily-indebted, CO.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
No anticipated efficiency, eh? Tell that to the investors who ran that stock up by about 70% in 6 weeks. I think they'd know a little more than you about the inner workings and financials

HP...er, US management has said that the expected efficiencies have not materialized as hoped. And investors are idiots...they ran up the price of Enron, too...

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 18):
So you're going to decrease IAD to put more traffic into the zoo known as Newark. Well, the Lehigh-Northampton Aviation Authority will be ecstatic over this news. ABE already picks up diversions from EWR every time the wind blows or a cloud rolls in... including a few today..

Couldn't have said it better myself...except maybe "10 pounds of shi* in a 5 pound bag"...

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 26):
No let's get YOUR idea straight. You wanted to ADD MORE FLIGHTS to Newark, an airport which is already bulging at the seams and has no concrete expansion plans in place. MY plan was to keep Newark for the O&D traffic it has, deserves, and will never lose.

Kahala777, Tornado82 makes a good, logical point...admit it.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 30):
DL+AA
CO+UA
NW+US/HP

(Tee hee )

Don't laugh...
 
Tornado82
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:07 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 34):
Don't laugh...

Already happened in the railroad industry. And all the remaining "major" (though their terminology is "Class I" railroads) are turning profits. Use PIT-EWR as an example. In some cases, US and CO RJ's are leaving within 10 minutes of each other. If they'd merge (just being hypothetical now) and suddenly those 2 flights become one bigger flight... look at the savings. In instances like that, 2 money-losing airlines can become 1 money-making airline.

Nobody thought anyone could save the money-hemhoraging Pennsylvania and New York Central Railroads decades ago, then they merged, then they needed Federal bailout, and a few decades later they became such a profitable puzzle piece that 2 rival companies bid up the stock to nearly 3x its value to buy Conrail. It can happen, it just takes time, and smart management.
 
ScottB
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 26):
I've read said reports. The stock is still 70% higher than it began 6 weeks ago at, and until it starts dropping back to those initial levels, OR operations/bank balances/customer service significantly deteriorates I'm still convinced that US+HP is successful.

Shares of US Airways after the first reorganization were sold in a private placement in August, 2003 for $7.34. The stock price hit $17.50 in the fourth quarter of that same year. We all know where that went.

You won't know (and neither will anyone else) if "US+HP" is successful for at least a couple of years. Personally, meaning my opinion only, I think it's just tying together two boat anchors to make a raft. They're still going to be too dependent on revenue premiums which they're unlikely to achive in the long term. I'm not seeing the real, substantive changes which will make the merged airline competitive with the true LCC's (rather than the ones in-stock-symbol-only).
 
deltadude8
Posts: 553
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:20 am

The rumors are continuing here at Delta...word is that DL has about a 70-80% chance of merging...I talked with one of my buddies on a layover in BOS and we both agree that it will be coming...with NW or with someone else...but we both agree our CEO is the merging king....(remember WESTERN and DELTA?) We don't really know what to think- we are both on our way out of the company in may of 2006. I guess we like the idea because word is that the following would stay:
The name "Delta" (everyone says in the media it has a better image- mainly because of "Good goes around", "Simplifares" All of which we here at DL think is crap, cheesy, and a waste of money (2 little to late). But according to some article in a mag. he read a month or so ago, the flying public really has bitten the idea- I still think thats a load of BS but who knows for sure.

Which if Delta remains the controlling airline NW's employees would be out like AA did to TWA and all of us furloughed would be back in a job if we wanted? That's very selfish, but I love my job...I get to go so many places and work hardly often...it fits my lifestyle....I love my job...the perks are better then any job you could offer me.

Though we don't know much about the technical stuff at Delta it would be our guess IF we merged the DC-9's and DC-10's would for sure be out and the int'l capacity would be filled by our 767's, and 738's. Who knows what would happen with the A330 or A320's but our guess is that with DL's plan to scale down domestic capacity...that most would be shedded for $$ and DL would move to buy new Boeing aircraft....finally the 747 would most likely go...my friend told me something about DL not ever wanting to operate the 747...I Don't know...?

We will see...
 
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STT757
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:54 am

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 34):
and they have far more cash, far more political savvy and far more executive brain power than previously bankrupt, but still heavily-indebted, CO.

There's alot of people who would argue AA has not had real leadership since Robert Crandal left, CO's management team is the best in the Industry even with the retirement of Gordon Bethune. Unlike AA CO made money in the 2nd and 3rd Quarters this year, amazing considering high fuel prices and the fact that their largest hub (IAH) was closed for a couple days because of Hurricane Rita.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
CIDFlyer
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:06 pm

Quoting Deltadude8 (Reply 37):
The rumors are continuing here at Delta...word is that DL has about a 70-80% chance of merging

I have always had suspicions that something has been up between NWA and DL ever since they filed BK on the same day. The next few months should be very indteresting to see how both airlines progress. If they do merge then I could see ATL, DTW, MSP and SLC remaining the hubs, maybe even MEM as a reliever hub to congested ATL, especially if they get more 70 seaters, and Delta would probably be the surviving name.
 
LawnDart
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:04 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
There's alot of people who would argue AA has not had real leadership since Robert Crandal left, CO's management team is the best in the Industry even with the retirement of Gordon Bethune.

I wouldn't be one of them...AA has great leadership - in fact, I would argue that their team is better than Continental's...with or without Fang and Buffoon.
 
ord
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RE: DL-NW Vs. DL-CO Vs NW-CO Merger

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:40 pm

Quoting Deltadude8 (Reply 37):
The name "Delta" (everyone says in the media it has a better image- mainly because of "Good goes around",

Delta may have a better image, but it is certainly not because of a slogan that is only few months old. A slogan does not change people's image of an airline in such a short period of time. Besides, Delta only advertises in key markets like Atlanta and New York, so many people have never even seen or heard of "good goes around."