Allee
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Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 2:37 am

Just heard on my local news (Vancouver, BC) that Alitalia is expected to order 10 777-300s (plus 10 options) to replace their 747-200s. The deal is expected to be finalized this summer.

Allan
 
teahan
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 2:43 am

I doubt think so! They allready ordered 5 B 747 400's (+ 5 options) to replace there 742 200's! Maybe you are talking about replacing the MD11's!

Jeremiah Teahan
Goodbye SR-LX MD-11 / 6th of March 1991 to the 31st of October 2004
 
aa737
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 2:47 am

Alitalia has 8 (I think) 742s left, and with only 5 744s on order I can see a few of the new 777s replacing some 742s, but I would think that most would replace the MD-11, a lot of airlines seem to be donig that.
 
DeltaAir
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I Second The Order....

Tue May 23, 2000 2:48 am

An Italian Magazine has just reported the same about Alitalia. 10 777-300ERs, plus 5 options.
 
Guest

RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 2:59 am

That is great news! They are better off buying 777s with powerful GE90s over the underpowered CFM56 powered A340-300.
 
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sammyk
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 3:45 am

I doubt the A340-300 was in the running, more likely the A340NG, which we don't know if it is underpowered, yet.

Sammy
 
Guest

RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 4:18 am

Hi Sammy, I assumed it would have been the CFM56 powered A340-300 since Alitalia has a GE powered widebody fleet.
 
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sammyk
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 4:25 am

Tedski, even though the A340-300 has CFM's doesn't mean they are common with the CF6's in the rest of Alitalia's fleet, so no matter what they choose, it would be a different type. Also, from what was said in the article, the 777-300ER is under consideration, and its competitor would be the A340-600, which will be Rolls powered.

Sammy
 
Guest

RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 4:38 am

Hi Sammy, I bet they will go for the 777 over the RR Trent A340-600 because it is powered by the GE90 being that they are a big GE customer. Wasn't the reason for Air France going with the GE90 777-300ER because they didn't want the RR Trent on the new A340s?
 
cedarjet
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 4:46 am

TEDSKI, every single time you mention the A340, you go on about how 'underpowered' it supposedly is. It can reach 39,000 ft from brakes off in 31 minutes, fully loaded, 207 miles from liftoff, at max climb power in normal airline operation. You have a serious obsession with A340s being under powered and gloating weirdly whenever Boeing win a sale for their also excellent product. Why?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
avion
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 4:50 am

AF hasnt ordered any 773 yet, have they?

Avion
 
CX747
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 4:51 am

Are we sure that this order is for a 747-200 replacement? As stated earlier, Alitalia recently ordered 5 747-400s with 3-5 options as a 747-200 replacement. Alitalia has been quoted as looking for a MD-11 replacement. The 777-200ER would make a perfect replacement. Its a great aicraft and has commonality with the 747-400s that they recently ordered. As for the A340-200/300 being underpowered, well there is no easy way to say this. IT IS.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
Guest

RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 5:28 am

Hi Sammy, the reason I gloat about the A340 is because some European airlines who use to have 747-200s who were making profits on some of their busy routes were pressured by the EU to go for the A340-300 to replace their older 747s instead of the high passenger capacity high power 747-400 & 777.
 
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sammyk
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 6:25 am

Tedski, tell that to Cedarjet, I said nothing about your gloating!

Sammy
 
Guest

RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 7:07 am

Sorry Sammy about that, I am sure you support me on this, as far as Cedarjet you should know that the EU is pressuring many European airlines to buy Airbus products to help their economy instead of supporting the US who liberated them in two World Wars.
 
cedarjet
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RE: TEDSKI, I Do Not Understand Thee

Tue May 23, 2000 7:20 am

Tedski dear boy, please explain what you are talking about when you say that European airlines were forced to buy A340s against their will when they really wanted "high power [there it is again], high capacity" 747-400s and 777s? What on earth are you talking about? Airlines are in business to make money by carrying passengers from A to B, not artificially supporting aircraft manufacturers. If LH were forced to buy a huge fleet of an unsuitable type of aircraft, how come they made $530m profit last year? If Airbus are so crap, why do they have 55-60% of the world market? You think this is done by "pressuring" airlines to buy AI product?

The 747 is too big for most EU carriers (Swissair, Sabena, Austrian, SAS) and those few who can profitably deploy it are very happy with their decision, as are their host governments: Lufthansa, Air France, British Airways, Iberia, Alitalia (BTW all the main 747 operators in Europe are the flag carriers for the Airbus risk-sharing nations).

I would love to know where you get your inside info on the airline business and politics. Please stick to the facts!
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
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Cedarjet

Tue May 23, 2000 7:56 am

What I am trying to say is that if a European nation's airline doesn't purchase Airbus aircraft that nation will not receive any kind of economic support from the EU.
 
cedarjet
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Tedski

Tue May 23, 2000 8:09 am

Bullshit. I'd love to know your source, though.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: Tedski

Tue May 23, 2000 8:13 am

WATCH YOUR MOUTH!!! WE ADULT PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM DON'T TALK LIKE THAT!!!!
 
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sammyk
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 8:17 am

Tedski, I don;t think i totally support you on this. Although I do think there is some political motivation in the purchase of Airbus in Europe, but it works just the same on this side of the Atlantic, and other parts of the world.

Sammy
 
cedarjet
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Tedski

Tue May 23, 2000 8:18 am

What kind of response do you expect when you post drivel like, "If a European nation's airline doesn't purchase Airbus aircraft that nation will not receive any kind of economic support from the EU." I think my post is less offensive cos mine is based in fact and yours is fiction and a malicious fiction at that.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
Guest

RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 9:40 am

I agree with you Sammy, I over did it with my response to this topic. I do think that if an airline is making a good profit with an aircraft that suits their needs, when it comes time to replace it because of it's age, it should be replaced with an advanced aircraft that will help the airline gain more profit. I shouldn't be pressured into buying something that I don't want. Many airlines that have aging 747-200s should replace them with new aircraft like the 747-400 or 777 that match or surpass the performance of the aircraft it replaces.
 
LH423
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 10:02 am

I totally agree with Cedarjet on this one. In no way has any European Union country ever received less support from the EU because their national airline bought non-European. British Airways has historically been one a Boeing operator, and I believe that the Airbus purchase was strictly economically based. Air France, Airbus' home country's national airline, is moving towards a Boeing-oriented long haul fleet. SAS, the national airline of Denmark and Sweden, and non-EU Norway, which in coming years will have 737's, A321's, and A330/340's.

This proves three examples of where economics plays the primary role in an airlines decision for which manufacturer, and not poltics.

Anyways, why don't you look at your own government, who less than hid it's decision to give less aid to Israel, if they bought Airbus.

LH423
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
 
Hamlet69
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Tue May 23, 2000 10:12 am

This is great news, if true. I've been waiting patiently for more 777LR/A340NG orders, but didn't think I would hear anything until FIA 2000.

As far as the A340 being underpowered, there is a good (informed) discussion about this very thing going on at the Tech/Ops forum. I suggest everyone wanting to post about this read that discussion first. The main point being that the A340 IS underpowered, but only because it was designed that way, to be more economical.

Avion,
AF is strongly rumored to be ordering 777-300LRs. I can tell you that I have a pretty reliable source that says this is true. Sorry, I don't have the amount of frames. Of course, now there is a rumor (how true, I don't know) that the French gov't will only permit AF to order 773LR if they also buy A3XX. If true, it is a very sad turn of events for the aviation industry as a whole.  

Cedarjet,
As your posts are based in facts, you of course know that market share is measured by deliveries, and not orders. Therefore, Airbus (deservedly) gaining 54% of the market in 1999 does not mean they have 55-60% of the current market. Contrary to optimistic comments by Mr. Leahy.

Hamlet69
Honor the warriors, not the war.
 
A330
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RE: TEDSKI, I Do Not Understand Thee

Wed May 24, 2000 12:54 am

Tedski, don't talk about things you have no knowledge off.
You clearly do not have the slightest idea how the EU and it's member states work, and you have no knowledge about the airline industry.
Airlines buy Airbus for it's price, economics, cockpit-communality and advanced technology.
NOT TO PLEASE THE GOVERNMENT!! (but EL AL had to buy Boeing, or else, the US would discontinue aid to Israel... this is a fact by the way, not gossip.)

ps. let's not start a Euro-US fight OK...
Shiek!
 
Guest

RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Wed May 24, 2000 1:37 am

I'm sorry to everybody I have offended, because this past weekend I flew for the first time on a Boeing 777-200ER, I have started to become pro-Boeing. This aircraft is terrific! It was a RR Trent powered aircraft with 92,000lbs thrust from each engine, the interior was almost like the 747's, loved how quickly this plane went down the runway when the pilot shoved the throttles forward. It rose very quickly and reached it's cruising altitude of 33,000ft. in 10 minutes! So, again I am sorry, I do hope in the future I get the chance to fly on a RR Trent A340-500/600 or a A320 from a US airline.
 
alitis
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EU

Wed May 24, 2000 1:43 am

Its no secret that EL AL was pressured to buy Boeing. In EL AL's case, if you are spending the US' money, I think they have a right to tell you what to do with it. Do you think the same kind of off-the-record persuasion does not happen within the EU? It happens everywhere. And many times that persuasion is ultimately successful.

LH423- The companies you mention that have a large percentage or mostly Boeing products (BA, AF, LH) are based in countries that usually provide subsidies to the EU, not receive them. They have a free-er hand to do whatever they please. If you are a in a situation that receives subsidies, you don't always have that luxury.
 
A330
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Wed May 24, 2000 4:19 am

The B777 is indeed a great plane, and I love it.
So, TEDSKI, we agree on that one...
Everyone is entitled to have his own opinion, but it should be based on facts. Anyway, no hard feelings ok? (sorry for the angry comment btw.)

Tino
Shiek!
 
Guest

A330

Wed May 24, 2000 4:34 am

No problem, I hope that the new RR Trent A340-500/600 matches the thrust that the new 777-300LR is suppose to have. The new GE90-115B is supposed to have I believe 115,000lbs thrust.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Alitalia Expected To Order 777s

Wed May 24, 2000 5:17 am

It would be nice to see a 777-300 operater in Europe. I hope this happens.

I think it would be for the MD-11s, as Alitalia has 5 firms and options left to cover more than 8 planes, which is how many 747-200s they currently have.

Avion - Air France has not ordered any 777-300s yet.

Jeff