Quoting Btriple7 (Reply 6): I suppose this is the official end of the McDonnel-Douglas line.

I would call it an end to the Douglas line.  

Quoting MD80Nut (Reply 48): As a big fan of Douglas and McDonald Douglas jets

What a moron I am, writing McDonald Douglas instead McDonnell Douglas! DUH!   

Cheers, Ralph

Quoting MD80Nut (Reply 51): What a moron I am, writing McDonald Douglas instead McDonnell Douglas! DUH!

Must be the burgers!

 

Quoting Litz (Reply 49): If they grow large enough, fast enough, they could conceivably end up snapping up any used examples that hit the market, to the point where eventually they could end up operating the entire product fleet.

This has happened with nearly all used 717s... A large number of the TWA 717 fleet sports teal tails now. And I seem to remember AirTran picking up some that were cancelled by other airlines before delivery.

I truly believe the demise of TWA was the ultimate demise of the 717. AirTran pushed for the 713, but it really needed two airlines wanting it for it to have happened. TWA was on their way to having as many 717s as AirTran, and that would probably have made the difference.

Quoting Airforum (Reply 52): Must be the burgers!

Yeah, if I keep that up I'll be saying stuff like "Airburger A330" or "Burgering 777!"   

Cheers, Ralph

Quoting Vatveng (Reply 53): This has happened with nearly all used 717s... A large number of the TWA 717 fleet sports teal tails now. And I seem to remember AirTran picking up some that were cancelled by other airlines before delivery.

Out of 148 delivered, Airtran has at least 85.

Isn't it ironic that one of the most successful low-fare airliners right now (AirTran) uses an aircraft that acquired better fuel economy than predicted and has been eliminated from production.

Is there anything that could bring it back? Lets pretend Airtran said tomorrow they would order 100 frames, would Boeing do it? Is it even possible?

Quoting NorCal (Reply 57): Is there anything that could bring it back? Lets pretend Airtran said tomorrow they would order 100 frames, would Boeing do it? Is it even possible?

Its funny you say that because I was thinking the same thing with a slightly different twist. What if Northwest said we'll take 200.

Or what if AirTran said we want 100 as in your example and another airline said that they wanted 200.

It makes me wonder when other airlines see how successful AirTran has been doing with this aircraft why have they put blinders on during this high fuel price time?

Quoting Vatveng (Reply 53): I truly believe the demise of TWA was the ultimate demise of the 717. AirTran pushed for the 713, but it really needed two airlines wanting it for it to have happened. TWA was on their way to having as many 717s as AirTran, and that would probably have made the difference.

   I could not have said it better myself. I would however add that AA is more guilty than TW of contributing towards the production stoppage of the 717 when they returned their inherited TW 717s to Boeing and cancelled the remaining orders. At least, TW (the only legacy carrier that chose the 717) was planning to fly them long-term. Sadly, that truly was the beginning of the end of 717 production.

Quoting Litz (Reply 49): how many 717s total will have been delivered (discounting the test plane(s), which I understand are being scrapped rather than retrofitted for delivery) ...

IIRC, the ultimate production total (don't know whether it includes the now scrapped prototype) will be 156. The break-even production number was 200 airframes. Had TW survived or AA continued to fly & take delivery of the 717; the production stoppage would not be taking place next year... nor would this thread have existed.   

Quoting Litz (Reply 49): do you forsee a future where almost all of them will end up with a teal tail and a big white "A" in the future?

As far as I know, HA & YX are still flying them. Heck, HA got about 25 years out of its DC-9-50s; the plane that their 717s replaced.

Quoting NorCal (Reply 57): Is there anything that could bring it back? Lets pretend Airtran said tomorrow they would order 100 frames, would Boeing do it? Is it even possible?

I, for one would wish that was possible.
Sadly, the point of no return was either late last year or this past January at the latest.

In a nutshell, the 717 either came out several years too late (following the RJ boom) or a few years too early (the EMB-190/195s rolled out, the aviation economy bottoming out following 9/11/01) with respect economic timing and airlines' decisions regarding aircraft orders.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 19): Embraer is going to sell a zillion 100-seat aircraft. Embraer. Boeing just HANDED them this market.

Sounds similar to what happened when GM stopped production of its full-size RWD B & C body cars 9 years ago; they literally handed over the police car market to Ford.

Back to planes; one thing that nobody has yet mentioned is that the EMB-170/175/190/195 planes all have a very shallow cargo hold (about 3 feet high) whereas the 717 has a normal size cargo hold. The larger cargo holds allow for more luggage to be transported. Whether that's a good thing or not depends if the person one asks is either a traveling passenger or a baggage handler.

At the BOS gathering at the Airliners Show last month, one person joked (might have been SNATH) that Brazilian midgets must of been the ones that designed/sized the cargo holds for those Embraers.

May 2006 will indeed be a sad day. The 717 is definitely one of my favorite planes... at least among the newer models.

[Edited 2005-12-01 00:51:35]

Quote: "Oh please, like a cramped seat on one airplane next a bulkhead is any different on one type versus another. The narrowness of the cabin bothers you? I guess for you it must be hard to pick a flight. "Sorry, I don't fly on those."

Yup I am. If i'm paying to fly I demand a comfortable cabin. It's important to me to be comfortable on long flights. I spent 20 years flying in cramped tactical planes, I think I've earne that right...

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 59): I could not have said it better myself. I would however add that AA is more guilty than TW of contributing towards the production stoppage of the 717 when they returned their inherited TW 717s to Boeing and cancelled the remaining orders. At least, TW (the only legacy carrier that chose the 717) was planning to fly them long-term. Sadly, that truly was the beginning of the end of 717 production.

I completely agree. As someone with some understanding of the TW acquisition by AA, I have resigned myself to the belief that post-9/11 would have sunk TW if it had been purchased by another entity rather than AA and tried to remain independent. I also believe that AA made what it thought was the right decision regarding the 717, given that their 717s were worth something at the time and their Fokkers were basically an orphan aircraft, colored of course by their condescending attitude towards most things TWA in the "integration". I also believe that they probably did sorta hope to be able to do something like a third hub at STL, not just shut it down to eliminate a competitor. I have heard some rumblings that some at AA in retrospect and with 20/20 hindsight might have wanted to hold onto the 717s, but that's water under the bridge and they still seem pretty comfortable with the MD80 as their smallest mainline aircraft. It's just the nature of the business, and maybe business generally, that you can have a fine product, but changes in the marketplace, and public perception and acceptance, are going to determine whether it thrives. As with aviation accidents, there's a sequence that leads to the ultimate failure, and often a little change in the sequence would have made all the difference. Sad.

Quoting NorCal (Reply 57): Is there anything that could bring it back? Lets pretend Airtran said tomorrow they would order 100 frames, would Boeing do it? Is it even possible?

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 58): What if Northwest said we'll take 200.

  

Just let it go guys! The airlines had plenty of time to order additional planes if they wanted them. They didn't. End of story.

does anyone know what will be the identities of the last 6 aircraft? Frame 5150 (the 150th built) N983AT has just been delivered to AirTran, with two more to go for AirTran and 4 for Midwest (N925ME to N928ME), which is for whom? What will be the registrations and constructionnumbers for the two AirTran frames?