SA7700
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Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:29 pm

I flew on SA207 from JNB to IAD via ACC on November 28, 2005. After we took of from ACC, bound for IAD, I had a walk through the main cabin and was absolutely astonished when I saw how empty economy class was.

I asked a cabin crew member about the loads and she told me that there was 50 pax in Y-class. I counted 20 of us in J-class, while I knew that F-class was totally empty. The B744 seems like a lot of plane for this route, although it may be the only equipment available in the SAA fleet to serve the route at this stage.

I personally expect the loads to pick up with the South African summer holidays starting over the next few days, but maybe more significantly, when SA officially joins Star Alliance and ties with Delta are severed. Maybe this will all make sense at that stage. Your thoughts on this subject please?


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
Kahala777
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:00 am

Quoting SA7700 (Thread starter):
I flew on SA207 from JNB to IAD via ACC on November 28, 2005. After we took of from ACC, bound for IAD, I had a walk through the main cabin and was absolutely astonished when I saw how empty economy class was.

The O.D. in the Washington - Accra market is a total joke.

KAHALA777
 
jaysit
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:26 am

This is merely anecdotal, but I was at IAD on Thanksgiving morning and saw a huge crowd at the SAA gate for its 744 flight (which surprised me as it was T-day and I didn't expect very many Americans to be flying overseas on that hallowed day !) Come December and January, I doubt if any of SAA's flights will be going empty !
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:32 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 2):
Come December and January, I doubt if any of SAA's flights will be going empty !

My thoughts as well. Even if the 10h25 departure may seem inconvenient for connecting pax.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
MAH4546
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:49 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 1):

The O.D. in the Washington - Accra market is a total joke.

Hardly. Accra, being on of the wealthiest and most stable cities in Africa, has very healthy traffic numbers to the United States, noteably New York City and Washington, D.C. Don't forget Ghana Airways flew to Baltimore until they went under.
a.
 
c680
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:04 am

I wonder about the SA flight every time I see the 744 at IAD. But, I also wonder about the ET flight every time I see that 763 at IAD.  Sad

There are too many other options to get to JNB from IAD. I know a several World Bank people who prefer to go via Europe to break up the trip a bit. Fares are better too from what they say.
My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
 
nethkt
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:10 am

This route is a JOKE!

You can use MD80s to take all passengers on this route. NOt more than 100 pax each way.

I assume that SAA will stop flying this route soon.
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
PlaneGuy27
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:12 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 1):
The O.D. in the Washington - Accra market is a total joke.

South African Airways does not have traffic rights to sell Washington Accra, all of those passengers on the IAD-ACC flight are passengers who bought IAD-JNB tickets.

Hopefully South Africa and Ghana can come to an agreement for 5th freedom traffic so that SAA can start selling the IAD-ACC sector as well.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:13 am

I'm assuming SA still does not have traffic rights for IAD/ACC? That's the biggest problem for the segment since SA can only sell IAD/JNB and ACC/JNB. If the plane is full on ACC/JNB and SA picks up half the passengers in ACC, then IAD/ACC necessarily must be at most half full. Think of it as BA's LHR/ORD/IAH flight. Since they have no rights on ORD/IAH, it's always mostly empty.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:14 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Hardly. Accra, being on of the wealthiest and most stable cities in Africa, has very healthy traffic numbers to the United States, noteably New York City and Washington, D.C. Don't forget Ghana Airways flew to Baltimore until they went under.

Well as I am sure you are aware of, currently that is of no use to SA, as they do not have the rights to pick up-and drop off pax in ACC.

Quoting C680 (Reply 5):
I wonder about the SA flight every time I see the 744 at IAD. But, I also wonder about the ET flight every time I see that 763 at IAD.

Nothing wrong with the SA product as such. Hop onboard and try it out.  Smile Besides, why spend a day in Europe when you can save so much time flying directly with SA to JNB? More time to spend in sunny South Africa. Big grin


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:18 am

Quoting Nethkt (Reply 6):
I assume that SAA will stop flying this route soon.

Hardly likely. SA needs a UA hub when entry into Star Alliance is completed.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
c680
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:21 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 9):
Nothing wrong with the SA product as such. Hop onboard and try it out.

I have no doubt! The Flight crews always look great (even after the long haul) and the plane's look cool as can be.

Its just that SA isn't on my list of regular destinations. I was just passing along what I have hear from others who do go to SA regularly for biz.

Hopefully the Star thing will help with UA connections to build business. I like seeing the SA birds at IAD.
My happy place is FL470 - what's yours?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:27 am

Quoting C680 (Reply 11):
The Flight crews always look great

I love the SA seat/service product even in Y, but I've flown with them on 10 segments and in general all flight crews were borderline surly. They did look good though!
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
AF022
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:48 am

When the US-Ghana open skies takes affect in March (?), will SAA be able to grab local traffic?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:55 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 9):

Well as I am sure you are aware of, currently that is of no use to SA, as they do not have the rights to pick up-and drop off pax in ACC.

Correct, but if SAA knew that was permanent, they would not have routed the flight via Accra. When US-Ghana Open Skies go into affect in January 2006, SAA will be able to have traffic rights between Dulles and Accra. IIRC, the IAD-ACC segment was bookable starting in January for a short time, but no longer is. No idea why.
a.
 
F27XXX
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:10 am

If they cant drop off or pick up at ACC, then why stop there at all? Is it for freight ? If its for a fuel stop, why dont they use SID like they do for hte JFK/ATL flights?

In fact, i thought the fuel stop was really only necessary in one direction anyway since the 744 has the range for the east (south?) bound route but not the return. Am I wrong?
I'M BAAAAAAAACK!
 
soups
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:49 am

ACC-north america routes are very popular Ghana Airways had plans to fly to Atlanta and Toronto but never happened due to lack of aircraft then went bust.
SAA had some seats for sale on ACC-IAD before but didn't last for long. i remember calling SAA in London, IAD-ACC via JNB was 200£ cheaper than IAD-ACC.
i believed they only had monday flights ACC-IAD and IAD-ACC for sale in begining. they have been withdrwan from the CRS
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
acvitale
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:07 am

Open Skies is between Ghana and the US. Only a US carrier or a Ghana carrier can take advantage of those rights. SAA is not able to do so.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting Acvitale (Reply 17):
Open Skies is between Ghana and the US. Only a US carrier or a Ghana carrier can take advantage of those rights. SAA is not able to do so.

A third carrier can take advantage of that as long as their air treaty with both the two other nation's will allow it. For example, when Open Skies was reached between the US and the Cape Verde Islands, SAA was allowed full traffic rights from the island.
a.
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:36 am

Quoting Soups (Reply 16):
ACC-north america routes are very popular Ghana Airways had plans to fly to Atlanta and Toronto but never happened due to lack of aircraft then went bust.
SAA had some seats for sale on ACC-IAD before but didn't last for long. i remember calling SAA in London, IAD-ACC via JNB was 200£ cheaper than IAD-ACC.
i believed they only had monday flights ACC-IAD and IAD-ACC for sale in begining. they have been withdrwan from the CRS

I think the answer may be here:

http://www.fly-ghana.com

While they may not have the necessary equipment available yet, I will to a reasonable extent, "bet the farm on it" that Ghana (as is the case with Nigeria) will block any attempt by SA to get rights to carry pax to the USA via ACC.

Rgds, from cold Chicago

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
ETStar
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:20 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 18):
A third carrier can take advantage of that as long as their air treaty with both the two other nation's will allow it. For example, when Open Skies was reached between the US and the Cape Verde Islands, SAA was allowed full traffic rights from the island.

I understand the open skies as being negotiated between the US and another country, and may or may not include the provision that allows other countries with similar deals free access to the market. This is not like setting up a 'free trade' area, but more of the US making deals with each individual country to allow x number of airlines from the US and the other country to start up fligths between any two cities (one in US and the other in the other country). It's like bilaterals, but removes the bilateral's rules that have restrictions on cities, frequency, airlines etc. Recall how Canada and the US have open skies, yet it still has restrictions, and that they had just concluded another round of talks with much more freedom?

As ACVitale mentioned, the US-Ghana Open Skies agreement allows for only a US carrier or a Ghana carrier to operate freely between the two countries. Unless you have access to the literature of the specific Open Skies agreement between the US and Ghana that states otherwise, I will have to side on ACVitale because I know he is in a better position to be in the know.
 
jaysit
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 8:55 am

Quoting C680 (Reply 5):
I wonder about the SA flight every time I see the 744 at IAD. But, I also wonder about the ET flight every time I see that 763 at IAD.

The metropolitan Washington DC area has the largest Ethiopian population - outside of Ethiopia. It is almost 150,000 strong. The ET flight is, thus, very popular as it is really the only way to get from DC to Addis Ababa and back without having to change planes in Europe and add a good 10 hours to the journey.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 4):
Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 1):

The O.D. in the Washington - Accra market is a total joke.

Hardly. Accra, being on of the wealthiest and most stable cities in Africa, has very healthy traffic numbers to the United States, noteably New York City and Washington, D.C. Don't forget Ghana Airways flew to Baltimore until they went under.

You're right.
The Ghana Airways flights from BWI were ALWAYS full. They were almost always delayed too, sometimes by a day or more.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
malaysia
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:41 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 1):
The O.D. in the Washington - Accra market is a total joke.

Its all just IAD-JNB traffic, omit ACC, its not a pax stop
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:03 pm

What percentage of pax on the JNB-ATL-JNB sectors are actually O&D as opposed to connecting pax?

Although United connections into-and out of IAD must be on a smaller scale than that of Delta in ATL, surely there must be ample feed into IAD from larger metropolitan areas, as well as other domestic airlines to feed connecting pax onto the SA flight? The ATL flight leaves at 10h30 in the morning for JNB via SID, while the flight from IAD via ACC, leaves at 10h25. IAD is not the ideal airport for quick connections with the current layout and construction going on, but eventually those negative aspects should be sorted out.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
jaysit
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:56 pm

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 23):
IAD is not the ideal airport for quick connections with the current layout and construction going on, but eventually those negative aspects should be sorted out.

It isn't.

You're right.

And I'm not sure if Delta has adequate traffic feeding into the SAA flight before 10:25 AM. SAA may be interlining with other carriers, however.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:00 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 24):
And I'm not sure if Delta has adequate traffic feeding into the SAA flight before 10:25 AM. SAA may be interlining with other carriers, however.

Delta may have adequate feed to the SA flight, but I think there are some pax who interline via other carriers. Personally I flew DL only once and decided never again.

In the meantime I have connected onto United flights from SA flights successfully, although both journeys originated in SYD, where QF were unable to issue boarding passes for United sectors. At least QF were able to tag my luggage through to my end destinations in the States.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
panamair
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:40 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 24):
And I'm not sure if Delta has adequate traffic feeding into the SAA flight before 10:25 AM. SAA may be interlining with other carriers, however.

Virtually all of Delta's domestic US destinations arrive in ATL in time for the 1025 SAA flight to JNB. That's hundreds of cities, from smaller airports like AZO, LAN, ABE, CAK, PWM, etc., to bigger ones like SEA, BDL, LGA, SFO, DEN, MSP, etc. Even HNL has a nonstop to ATL that arrives in ample time for the SA flight.
 
jaysit
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:15 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 26):
Virtually all of Delta's domestic US destinations arrive in ATL in time for the 1025 SAA flight to JNB. That's hundreds of cities, from smaller airports like AZO, LAN, ABE, CAK, PWM, etc., to bigger ones like SEA, BDL, LGA, SFO, DEN, MSP, etc. Even HNL has a nonstop to ATL that arrives in ample time for the SA flight.

I was referring to the IAD flight, not the ATL flight.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
panamair
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 01, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 27):
I was referring to the IAD flight, not the ATL flight.

Sorry - my bad...I was reading the post above about DL feed for ATL-JNB...In the case of DL and IAD at that time of the A.M., probably zip. For that matter, IAD sees very few domestic arrivals in the A.M. except for UA and DH.
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:54 pm

The loads on IAD-ACC last night were 60 Y-class pax and 9 of us in J-class. In ACC the entire Y-and J-class filled up to 100%, with 1 pax upfront in F-class. All in all an awesome flight with great crews on both sectors. We even landed about 40 minutes earlier in JNB, prior to our STABig grin


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
ETStar
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:55 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 29):
The loads on IAD-ACC last night were 60 Y-class pax and 9 of us in J-class. In ACC the entire Y-and J-class filled up to 100%, with 1 pax upfront in F-class. All in all an awesome flight with great crews on both sectors. We even landed about 40 minutes earlier in JNB, prior to our STA. Big grin

Thanks for reporting SA7700. So you're saying no F pax IAD-ACC, then only 1 ACC-JNB? Wow!
 
Kahala777
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:40 am

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 21):
You're right.
The Ghana Airways flights from BWI were ALWAYS full. They were almost always delayed too, sometimes by a day or more



This was vastly due to the low, low, low airfares that were offered from JFK and BWI to ACC! In recent years the bulk of traffic to Accra has gone to the likes of Air France, KLM, and Alitalia. Alitalia, interestingly, fairs very well to Western Africa including Casablanca, Dakar, Lagos, and Accra. The majority of JFK to Africa is headed to French Western Africa. More specifically Casablanca, Dakar, and Abidjan.


KAHALA777
 
soups
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:40 am

If SAA will be granted IAD-ACC 5th freedom flights will be almost full each directions
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
bwione
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:01 am

KAHALA777

I think you are mistaken. Ghana actually had fairly high fares from BWI and filled its business class on a regular basis. You have to remember that the European carriers will always charge more as you are adding a sector to the flight between the East Coast and Ghana. On a yield per coupon mile basis, the Ghana average yields would actually be higher than LH's via FRA, BA's via LHR, AF's via CDG, etc.

Tony
 
soups
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:08 am

Quoting Bwione (Reply 33):

I think you are mistaken. Ghana actually had fairly high fares from BWI

i Diagree with you. i flown GH to BWI and JFK for under 750$$
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
ETStar
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:03 am

Quoting Soups (Reply 34):

i Diagree with you. i flown GH to BWI and JFK for under 750$$

But soups, as with any airline, the market is so segmented that airlines have many many fares for each flight. I have paid $130 once to go across the continent in North America, while I am sure the guy next to me paid > $1000. ET offers fares as low as $800 to LOS from WAS at times, while at the same time charging a minimum of $1300 to ADD. If all fares were at under $750, I doubt GH would have survived for as long as it did.

At any rate, GH was liked by many due to the fact that it had greater baggage allowance than the competitors. So them dried fish had more room to be stored in when going across the pond.

Finally, someone mentioned that hte flights were always full. Could this be because 2 out of 3 flights per week to BWI were cancelled, and the third had all pax that were due to go that whole week? Big grin At any rate, GH did hold the record of recurring cancellations in recent times - I even recall a few times that the ACC-BKO-BWI flight would overfly BKO because 'it filled up at ACC' and leave the BKO pax stranded, or that it would arrive at BKO at an undisclosed hour and depart.
 
soups
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:33 pm

USA flights never went thru BKO. some went thru BJL. GH had problems with lack of aircrafts hence the delays and low frequecy. i booked my ticket on the day of travel as it was a last minute holiday to catch a cruise to Alaska.
a friend of mine was on one of their flight to Dubai, they had to return during the flight cause i think it was Sudan or another country wouldn't let them into their airspace. they had to stop in KAN. a plate passed around the passengers to buy some fuel. they had horrible and sometimes funny stories. you were never guaranteed to get to your destination until you actually get there. Sometime double booking you get on the plane and then later they ask you to leave
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:04 am

Quoting ETStar (Reply 30):
So you're saying no F pax IAD-ACC, then only 1 ACC-JNB? Wow!

Yup, that would be the case. That is quite a chunk of possible revenue being wasted.

Quoting Soups (Reply 32):
If SAA will be granted IAD-ACC 5th freedom flights will be almost full each directions

I expect that 5th freedom rights would make a significant change, however I fail to see when or if those rights will actually be granted. There are a lot of African countries, with their respective "flag carriers" who does not like SA on their home turf.

Passengers will also have to get used to the fact that ATL will no longer be served by SA in the nearby future and make use of IAD instead. Should it proof that IAD does not make economic sense for SA, we may see a shift from IAD to ORD. However, that is pure speculation on my part.



Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:20 am

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 37):
Passengers will also have to get used to the fact that ATL will no longer be served by SA in the nearby future and make use of IAD instead.

It doesn't sound like there's much capacity left on IAD/JNB since it's being mostly allocated to ACC/JNB. They'd have to reroute IAD through SID--or FNA, ROB, CKY, OXB, or any other approved, safe West African city that doesn't have a lot of O&D traffic to the US or Southern Africa.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:36 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 38):
It doesn't sound like there's much capacity left on IAD/JNB since it's being mostly allocated to ACC/JNB.

It may be (I may be wrong). I don't really think that SA allocates X-number of seats specifically for the JNB-ACC-JNB market. Obviously it is a huge O&D market and at this stage, at least, they are filling the Y-and J-class cabins.

However, fares on the JNB-IAD-JNB sectors are obviously steeper than on the JNB-ACC-JNB sectors. Ultimately if SA can fill those seats with bums, especially in F-class, to IAD; wouldn't it be financially more lucrative for the airline?

There is always the possibility of JNB-ACC-JNB becoming a market in its own right, who knows?


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
Elagabal
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:45 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 31):
the bulk of traffic to Accra has gone to the likes of Air France

Don't you mean BA? They fly to ACC, but AF don't, IIRC (on both counts).
 
GreyGoose
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Tue Dec 20, 2005 5:42 am

Looks like SAA has taken heed of the poor performance of the route, and rumour is that they will send the IAD flight via Dakar starting in April. They can then benefit from the 5th Freedom rights between Senegal and the US. Hopefully the loads improve on the leg between West Africa and the US. Over time they may also send the third US flight (ATL via SID) via Dakar. Currently SID is more or less just a technical stop - very few pax. That would make for an interesting 'hub' for SAA in Dakar.

One problem is that Air Senegal needs to do get more aircraft to connect regional passengers to the upcoming two flights to the US. I don't believe they currently fly to either Nigeria or Ghana, the two key markets in West Africa to US.

Looks like the JNB-ACC flight will be flown by a 737-800. Potentially too long on a narrow body?
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Tue Dec 20, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting GreyGoose (Reply 41):
Looks like the JNB-ACC flight will be flown by a 737-800. Potentially too long on a narrow body?

Potentially way too much pax for the plane. The 744's offers about 288 Y-class seats, while the 738's can accommodate 125 Y-class pax. As I have mentioned in my posts, Y-class was either fully packed or close to max capacity JNB-ACC-JNB.

If it is true and SA decides to send 738's to ACC, they are going to have send out more flights to make up for pax numbers. Many of us endure narrow-body transcontinental flights across Australia and the USA. The JNB-ACC-JNB route is between 5-6 hours - they should survive.


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
soups
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:53 pm

Quoting GreyGoose (Reply 41):
Looks like the JNB-ACC flight will be flown by a 737-800

ABJ was initially served via ACC. since ACC and IAD flights were joined ABJ was served by a 737-800. The 737-800 was later dropped and flights to ABJ are now via LOS.
I highly doubt a daily 737-800 will be enough capacity for JNB-ACC especially with the size of cargo
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
GreyGoose
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:01 pm

Unfortunately the SA-Ghana bilaterals only allow for four weekly flights, so the 737-800 will only fly 4/week. It will also then 'dead leg' onto ABJ. SAA will likely spill pax; they used to fly the same routing in the past (i.e. JNB-ACC-ABJ), but on a A340-200.
 
soups
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Tue Dec 20, 2005 9:04 pm

Quoting GreyGoose (Reply 44):
SAA will likely spill pax; they used to fly the same routing in the past (i.e. JNB-ACC-ABJ), but on a A340-200.

SAA use t fly 767s and a340-200 to Accra. on one ocaasion I believe tey flew the a340-600 back in january 2005.
I believe JNB is on the cards for GIA when their DUS takes off
Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Wed Dec 21, 2005 3:27 am

Quoting Soups (Reply 45):
I believe JNB is on the cards for GIA when their DUS takes off

I believe so... GIA and some of its officials will do everything in their power to stop SA from expanding, in any form, on this route.  wink 


Rgds

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
AF022
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Wed Dec 21, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting GreyGoose (Reply 41):
Looks like SAA has taken heed of the poor performance of the route, and rumour is that they will send the IAD flight via Dakar starting in April. They can then benefit from the 5th Freedom rights between Senegal and the US. Hopefully the loads improve on the leg between West Africa and the US. Over time they may also send the third US flight (ATL via SID) via Dakar. Currently SID is more or less just a technical stop - very few pax. That would make for an interesting 'hub' for SAA in Dakar.

This would be an interesting development. Has anyone else heard this rumor? I'm not looking for a source, but perhaps a second confirmation?

I don't SAA will ever be able to make IAD-ACC-JNB work unless they get 5th's IAD-ACC-IAD
 
SA7700
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Wed Dec 21, 2005 6:55 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 47):
I don't SAA will ever be able to make IAD-ACC-JNB work unless they get 5th's IAD-ACC-IAD

Well everybody was infuriated when SA withdrew from MIA and started codesharing with DL to ATL. Many people doomed the route before it even started – in the end everything seemed to work out for SA. IMO we should wait and see what happens when SA finally withdraw from ATL.


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SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
acvitale
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RE: Light Loads On SAA ACC-IAD-ACC Sectors

Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:24 pm

sa7700,

Besides the untrue and factually incorrect information on GIA and its officials do you have any other untruths?

GIA met with SAA several times. Unfortunately, SAA would not agree to anything other then unconditional 5th freedom rights in perpetuity by treaty.

SAA was offered alternatives that would cost them nothing and generate revenue.

It is sad that you would chose to selectively state things and leave out pertinent details.

Of course this is also not the forum for confidential talks that took place to have been aired either is it.

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