KarlB737
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Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:56 am

Courtesy: San Bernardino Sun

Proposed Las Vegas Airport Stirs Environmental Concerns

http://www.airportbusiness.com/artic.../article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=4423
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:30 am

Seems silly. Sounds like another MidAmerica (KBLV) fiasco- an airport no one will want to use. Probably some politician hoping for a big project in his district.

I would certainly think LAS has some room to expand.
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iowaman
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:34 am

More info can also be found here:
http://www.mccarran.com/04_05_CurProjects.asp

Some issues I see are:
1. Trying to get someone to serve that new airport, everyone will want to serve the current LAS, because it is much closer to the strip.

2. Traffic is already a nightmare on Friday nights on I-15, adding a whole bunch of flights into the the new Ivanpah airport (current name for the new airport) and people trying to get to Vegas will be really bad, considering I-15 is the only viable option.

3. Even when traffic is good, your looking at a hour to an hour and a half drive or so to the proposed location, where as Mccarran is literally 5 minutes from the strip.

I'd rather see the current LAS expand, however they simply are pretty well landlocked and it would take a massive amount of money to expand. A quick look at flytecomm shows the shear number of flights (mostly mainline) that come into Vegas. Also with Allegiant expanding quite rapidly and WN a slow but steady expansion there (WN has over 200 daily departures out of LAS, making it the busiest WN city in terms of flights, and probably passengers too) they are creating new low fare demand (obviously) so passenger numbers keep going up a lot.
 
HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:34 am

They have been planning Ivanapah for the last 5 or 6 years now, only they're doing a very slow and meticulous job of it. I believe the original idea was to move all the cargo flights to there by 2008, but they haven't even broke ground on it. They also wanted to put a light rail service in (perhaps tie in the existing monorail that's paritially built on the strip to the new airport), but that hasn't been established. But then again, I've also heard all sorts of expansion projects for McCarran (still the 4th wing of the D gates needs to be built, in addition to the construction of a new intl terminal just NE of the existing cargo plant). Another example of the Las Vegas city planners falling behind in terms of keeping up with the growth of the city
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:37 am

FOURTEEN MILLION DOLLARS JUST FOR AN ENVIRONMENTAL STUDY????
Someone is milking us big time. That's a joke!.
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drerx7
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:46 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 1):
Seems silly. Sounds like another MidAmerica (KBLV) fiasco- an airport no one will want to use. Probably some politician hoping for a big project in his district.

I would certainly think LAS has some room to expand.

At first you'd think that (as did I)--but LAS really has no room to expand out of their current geography; its pretty much locked in by development. Carriers will certainly serve Ivanpah--but you'd initially see the mainline carriers add a couple of flights to their hubs and charters.
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N1120A
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:49 am

You know, I don't really see why there are issues with LAS anyway. They are already 4 long runways (including one over 14,000 feet) and the airport is on plenty of land. In some ways, the cavernous terminals with very long walks could easily be redesigned to accomidate incresed passenger traffic, along with large areas of under used land (namely the old boneyard that doesn't really house anything anymore). To add to this, landing fees for small GA aircraft have sharply risen in recent years and that has combined with easier airspace into Henderson to move GA traffic out.
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HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:50 am

Well, as far as expanding within McCarran, the best hope they have is to wipe out the executive jet terminal on the west side of the property and build a new terminal there (perhaps the intl, with an underground train to connect), and send all those jets to Henderson Airport or NLV airport. Of course, that would also involve moving the legendary JANET airlines (I should start a whole new thread on them, for those who know - it's red stripe! Hooray 737-2s!) to another site (I would suggest Nellis, keep all the gov't bs nice and together in the same neighborhood). The existing plan for the new intl terminal calls for the complete rerouting of Russel Rd (a very significant feeder road for the residents of the east side) and the wiping out of some old houses around that road. I too, perfer to stay at the existing site (besides the proximity to the strip, don't you just love taking off 25R at night and right away you get the Luxor light right below you?) and I only live 15 min away currently. But I just don't see how in 15-20 years from now McCarran is going to be able to meet demand. We're already short of gates for HP for our night flight operation (56 depts in about an 1 1/2) and have been borrowing C gates from WN.
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drerx7
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:53 am

A bit off-topic--but has WN started ops from the B concourse? Has that bridge been completed?
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amhilde
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:53 am

Part of the problem with public projects in Vegas too are all the levels of interest and the particular power that the casino and entertainment interests hold. That damn monorail project is such a debacle because no one wants it going to their competitor, even though it would benefit all on the whole. They would need some form of transport out there because I-15 IS a mess and it gets worse every year. I thought there had been some talk of linking this up with the other pie-in-the-sky project of rail service to LA. BTW, worries about the environment dont seem to have stopped people down there in the past- doubt it would stop them now.
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HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:56 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 9):
A bit off-topic--but has WN started ops from the B concourse? Has that bridge been completed?

During the daytime, they use gate B10 and there's a shuttle bus between C23 and B15 that takes pax and crew back and forth.

[Edited 2005-12-01 21:00:04]
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HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:03 am

Not to mention all the high rise condos being built in the last few years along the strip, that's only screwed up traffic even more. Vegas is starting to go verticle in growth and the infrastructure is not there to handle it
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CALMSP
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:13 am

yes they want all carriers except HP/WN to move south............then install a high speed bullet train to the strip.
 
iowaman
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:13 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
You know, I don't really see why there are issues with LAS anyway. They are already 4 long runways (including one over 14,000 feet) and the airport is on plenty of land.

The issues with LAS are:

Not enough gates
Traffic
At some points in the day the runway usage is maxed out, all though they could probably use the the north and south runways more if they really tryed.
The airport doesn't have any land to expand
Security

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 11):
Not to mention all the high rise condos being built in the last few years along the strip, that's only screwed up traffic even more. Vegas is starting to go verticle in growth and the infrastructure is not there to handle it

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amhilde
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:16 am

Most of those condos are timeshares though, arent they? Or secondary homes? Would those "residents" keep permanent cars there?
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HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:18 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 12):
then install a high speed bullet train to the strip

That's probably not gonna happen unless they can figure out a way to continue that track all the way to LA
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drerx7
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:19 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 12):
yes they want all carriers except HP/WN to move south............then install a high speed bullet train to the strip.

LOL--what kind of s**t is that! I can see what discussion topic will dominate this board in 2009.
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HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:22 am

Quoting Amhilde (Reply 14):
Most of those condos are timeshares though, arent they? Or secondary homes? Would those "residents" keep permanent cars there?

Not necessarily timeshares, but yes, secondary homes (probably a lot of snowbirds). But even if they don't keep a car there full time, they'll probably use one when they do reside there. Our bus system is ok, but people who own those places won't use the bus. We have no light rail system (the monorail is only good for tourists and conventioneers going from hotel to hotel or to a convention center), and although we are abundant in taxis, they get expensive after awhile and provide plenty of congestion in their own right. Many of these condos are empty since they are just an investment but many are occupied and the logistics involving that are just mindboggling. We were 10 years overdue on our city belt loop and it's still not even complete.
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KarlB737
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:34 am

Just in a general sense with all the flights that Southwest has and Allegiant is adding hasn't that caused additional crunch or not?
 
N1120A
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:24 am

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 15):
That's probably not gonna happen unless they can figure out a way to continue that track all the way to LA

That is in the works. There is no figuring needed. There is already a rail ROW along the 15

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 13):
Not enough gates

There are still expansion plans in the works

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 13):
Traffic

Monorail

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 13):
At some points in the day the runway usage is maxed out, all though they could probably use the the north and south runways more if they really tryed.

The problem is that they don't use the north-south runways nearly enough. If they made better use of what they have, they could deal with traffic much better

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 13):
The airport doesn't have any land to expand

But it makes poor use of its own land

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 13):
Security

How is that an issue? There are tons of airports close to metro areas.
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Tornado82
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:32 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 13):
At some points in the day the runway usage is maxed out,

It's still no Newark, Philly, O'Hare, etc. though.

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 18):
Allegiant is adding hasn't that caused additional crunch or not?

Allegiant's additions to LAS aren't really a drop in the bucket in the big picture of HP/WN.

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 15):

That's probably not gonna happen unless they can figure out a way to continue that track all the way to LA

There's a decent amount of terrain in the way there. Trains aren't big fans of grades over 2% or so.
 
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:45 am

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 3):
They have been planning Ivanapah for the last 5 or 6 years now, only they're doing a very slow and meticulous job of it.

That's because they're planning huge! 6 runways, etc.

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 16):
Quoting CALMSP (Reply 12):
yes they want all carriers except HP/WN to move south............then install a high speed bullet train to the strip.

LOL--what kind of s**t is that! I can see what discussion topic will dominate this board in 2009.

 rotfl  Ok, the whole reason behind Ivanpah is that in 2011 to 2020 (depending on assumptions) LAS will be absolutely maxed out. Initially, Ivanpah will start out small, maybe as a business jet destination. But the long term plan is for it to be the center of a new downtown, in some was similar to IAD. Use google earth to look around IAD, its built up now.

I'm just glad to see a city doing long term planning a la DEN. By securing an option for the land early, with a pre-approved environmental plan... when the airport is needed, it will grow quick!  bigthumbsup  Do also recall that when the airport is built it will be with houses, casinos, and a mini-city. This project isn't for the timid. I think it will work, but will need decades to play out.

Although, it is very ambitious for a metropolitan area with a population just about to break 2 million...

Lightsaber
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vegasplanes
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:58 am

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 21):

I'm just glad to see a city doing long term planning a la DEN. By securing an option for the land early, with a pre-approved environmental plan... when the airport is needed, it will grow quick! bigthumbsup Do also recall that when the airport is built it will be with houses, casinos, and a mini-city. This project isn't for the timid. I think it will work, but will need decades to play out.

Although, it is very ambitious for a metropolitan area with a population just about to break 2 million...

This is one of the few times where planners are really looking ahead in Vegas, the other being the Beltway, currently we are just under 2 mil. people metro area, with close to 44 million per year, projected for 2005, flying through LAS. The brilliant minds that predict these sorts of things say Vegas will have 3 million people in the metro area within 20 years. I feel that is a very conservative guess, the need for a second major airport will become necessary if, based on the above figures, close to 65 million people a year will be flying through LAS. We are one of the fastest growing metro areas in the country.
 
HAL
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:16 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 20):
It's still no Newark, Philly, O'Hare, etc. though.

You're right, LAS isn't. It's busier than those except O'Hare.

In 2004 LAS ranked 11th busiest in the world, and 6th busiest in the US behind Atlanta, Chicago, LAX, Dallas, and Denver, and ahead of PHX, JFK, and MSP.

LAS handled 41.4 million passengers in 2004. EWR had 31.9 million (22nd overall), and PHL had 28.5 million (30th overall). That was a 14% increase over 2003, and 2005 should see another large increase, possibly putting it into 9th place worldwide above Denver (42.3 million) and Amsterdam (42.5 million)

As a pilot based in LAS, I can tell you from close personal experience that the airport is getting near its saturation point. Just because it has four runways doesn't mean it is better at handling traffic than some airports with fewer runways. LAS sits down in a bowl, and you can't land to the south in bad weather - the mountains are in the way of any possible ILS approach path. You can't land simultaneously on parallel runways either except in nice daytime weather - they're too close together.

Yes, things are getting a little crowded in the terminals, but the big thing holding back any more expansion is the runway layout and the lack of room for more.

I like being based in LAS, but I can see that if there is more growth, a new airport will be needed.

HAL

[Edited 2005-12-02 01:19:31]

[Edited 2005-12-02 01:20:26]

[Edited 2005-12-02 01:24:14]
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AC773
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:22 am

Personally, I'd like to see either a new airport being built or a thorough renovation of the existing one. I was surprised to see how crummy LAS was last time I visited.
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vegasplanes
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:35 am

Quoting AC773 (Reply 24):
I was surprised to see how crummy LAS was last time I visited.

Just curious, what gate area are you referring to. "D" gates just got done with expansion, the original terminal was completed in 1998, "C" gates under going restaurant and Bar renovations currently, also connecting "B" and "C" gates so as to not have to go through security to change terminals. Not quite sure as to what kind of construction is being done elsewhere in the "A" and "B" gates. Looks like nothing else is being done to Terminal 2, anybody out there know what the utilization rate is on those 8 gates? Seems like it would be pretty low since TZ moved to "C" to be with WN, the only other domestic flights out of there are the Omni charters and HNL flights, along with HA to HNL.
 
HAL
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 25):
Just curious, what gate area are you referring to.

He's probably talking about the currently 'under construction' A & B gates for HP. They are old and showing their age - low ceilings, fading carpets etc.

They are all now going under renovation to raise the ceilings, add new ceiling tiles, new carpets, new paint, new restaurants etc. However while the construction is going on, the place is a mess. Half the width of the corridors are blocked off for the demolition of the old ceiling and it's a pain to get around. During the hour before a 'push' it can be almost gridlocked up and down the hallways. I know it is supposed to be done in another few months, and can't wait for that to happen. Right now it is a pain to deal with.

HAL
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HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:50 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 25):
Just curious, what gate area are you referring to. "D" gates just got done with expansion, the original terminal was completed in 1998, "C" gates under going restaurant and Bar renovations currently, also connecting "B" and "C" gates so as to not have to go through security to change terminals. Not quite sure as to what kind of construction is being done elsewhere in the "A" and "B" gates. Looks like nothing else is being done to Terminal 2, anybody out there know what the utilization rate is on those 8 gates? Seems like it would be pretty low since TZ moved to "C" to be with WN, the only other domestic flights out of there are the Omni charters and HNL flights, along with HA to HNL.

Currently, T2 gate 1 is shut down due to resurfacing the ramp around that area (as well as A20-A23 - gates HP desperately needs right now). Our airline's beef with T2 is only one gate is painted for an RJ and we have 2 900s coming in from PVR and SJD everyday. Mexicana often uses the gate up to 20 - 30 min after PVR gets on the ground, even though their airbuses could use any gate and there are usually 3 or 4 others open. But that's just our little gripe. Anyways, both A and B concourses are under heavy renovation right now (half of the hallways are closed down), gates B3, B4, B8, A4, A2, and A24 are gone forever to make room for the new bag rooms (featuring the same system that gave DIA fits for a few years, so we're all looking forward to extensive testing and retesting). As for a bridge between B and C, I think there was talk of that at one point, but I think those plans are on hold for awhile. D gates are still nice and still have another 10 or so to be built to finish that concourse
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
amhilde
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:58 am

HPLASOps- I went to high school in Vegas and my parents are still down there- thats one town that needs to sort out some sort of transport planning and fast! You forgot to add that the bus system is a bit of a joke  Smile. Maybe the city planners will get it right with a new airport this time. I think I know which parcel of land they bought out there, and given the rate of growth of LAS, and people building and buying where they are now ( unthought of 10 years ago really), I suppose housing and casinos and the like that far out is believable. I would, however, wonder if business jet operations would be shifted to the folks out at North LV- from what Ive heard they have a nice little set up, and quite a bit of traffic, out there and it wouldnt be nearly as far out as this new airport.

My parents live out in Summerlin and when that area of the beltway was finished it made going to and from the airport so much easier. Frankly I cant wait for them to move next summer so I dont ever have to go "home" again- I hate Vegas with a living passion- sorry to those of you who like it but its just not my cup of tea as cities go!
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Tornado82
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:13 am

Quoting HAL (Reply 23):

You're right, LAS isn't. It's busier than those except O'Hare.

I was speaking delay-wise. Although I guess that speaks more to the great weather at LAS as compared to ORD/EWR/PHL.
 
HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:18 am

Amhilde

I agree with you on everything. I grew up in LAS (moved here when I was 6, my dad was born and raised here) so I'm familiar with the old days when McCarran was way out by itself in the middle of nowhere, 6 miles of empty desert between the airport and downtown. Nobody could have comprehended the growth that occured. As for someone's projections of Vegas reaching 3 mil - that'll never happen. We'll run out of water before we reach 3 mil. We're already starving for water as it (note the legislation passed a year and a half ago preventing new homes from having grass in the front yard). As for another person's comment about development around Ivanapah - it's already out there. There are 4 casinos along I-15 between the mountains and stateline that all do quite well actually (Buffalo Bill's being the biggest, I believe). Putting the airport out there will only strengthen those casinos and encourage local feeders such as Station Casions and Coast Casions to put another joint out there. Everyone of us who loves McCarran and all its little nuances will just have to accept that Ivanapah will happen, probably within 10 years from now (I do think we can support two airports). In addition, whoever commented that HP and WN would stay at McCarran - I would think since HP provides most of the connecting pax at LAS, HP will want to take advantage of a new airport that would be better suited to connecting pax. Our current A and B gates are not very well suited for connecting pax (I wish we could trade with WN - C gates are better suited for conx and they deal with mostly local pax anyways). Just my thoughts, I am aware of the cost issues though.

[Edited 2005-12-02 03:39:29]
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:29 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 29):
I was speaking delay-wise. Although I guess that speaks more to the great weather at LAS as compared to ORD/EWR/PHL.

Vegas isn't perfect weather all the time. During July and August, the afternoon monsoons cause havoc with ATC delays (one night we had 20 flights arrive after the last flight was scheduled to dept - a complete mess). And it does snow once every 8-10 years here and when it does, we're screwed since we're not really set up to handle snow and deicing. And too much heat can actually ground the RJs (sensitive little pricks those aircraft are). Yes, overall the weather is pleasant but we do have our share of problems too.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
Tornado82
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:31 am

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 31):
Vegas isn't perfect weather all the time

I know... but comparatively speaking. Right now its 34, breezy, and flurrying here. I'll take LAS' weather tonight.  Smile
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:44 am

Quoting HAL (Reply 26):
He's probably talking about the currently 'under construction' A & B gates for HP. They are old and showing their age - low ceilings, fading carpets etc.

They are all now going under renovation to raise the ceilings, add new ceiling tiles, new carpets, new paint, new restaurants etc. However while the construction is going on, the place is a mess. Half the width of the corridors are blocked off for the demolition of the old ceiling and it's a pain to get around. During the hour before a 'push' it can be almost gridlocked up and down the hallways. I know it is supposed to be done in another few months, and can't wait for that to happen. Right now it is a pain to deal with.

HAL



Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 27):

Currently, T2 gate 1 is shut down due to resurfacing the ramp around that area (as well as A20-A23 - gates HP desperately needs right now). Our airline's beef with T2 is only one gate is painted for an RJ and we have 2 900s coming in from PVR and SJD everyday. Mexicana often uses the gate up to 20 - 30 min after PVR gets on the ground, even though their airbuses could use any gate and there are usually 3 or 4 others open. But that's just our little gripe. Anyways, both A and B concourses are under heavy renovation right now (half of the hallways are closed down), gates B3, B4, B8, A4, A2, and A24 are gone forever to make room for the new bag rooms (featuring the same system that gave DIA fits for a few years, so we're all looking forward to extensive testing and retesting). As for a bridge between B and C, I think there was talk of that at one point, but I think those plans are on hold for awhile. D gates are still nice and still have another 10 or so to be built to finish that concourse

Thanks for the info., only have been through T2 once, in July on MX, not a bad terminal, apparently there is some issues with gate 1. As for "A" and "B", have not been through there since the mid 1990's. Seems like I am always in "C", I wonder why?, with a few flights scattered about through "D", can tend to loose track of the rest of the airport.

Seems like in my opinion that "A" and "B" could be rebuilt to maximize the number of gates, from what I remember their were the long halls to get down to the round ends of the concourses that seemed under-utilized at the time. This may have changed, like I said, it's been a few years since going through "A" or "B".
 
HPLASOps
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Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:13 pm

RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:56 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 33):
Seems like in my opinion that "A" and "B" could be rebuilt to maximize the number of gates, from what I remember their were the long halls to get down to the round ends of the concourses that seemed under-utilized at the time. This may have changed, like I said, it's been a few years since going through "A" or "B".

If McCarran wanted to get hardcore serious about better utilizing the space for the gates, the could do a four prong gate system with a connecting hallway (similar to T4 at PHX). It'd require demolishing the existing one and doing it one concourse at a time and HP would be completely screwed on gate space during construction, but that would be one way to better utilize the space, I bet you could squeeze in at least another 10 - 15 gates under the new configuration. Of course, that's a pipe dream and McCarran probably wouldn't spend that kind of money just for 10-15 extra gates, but hey, we can all dream.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
iowaman
Posts: 3874
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:58 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
There are still expansion plans in the works

Not enough.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
Monorail

Which is pretty pathetic at the moment.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
How is that an issue? There are tons of airports close to metro areas.

I was refering to security lines, I should of been more clear.

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 30):
We'll run out of water before we reach 3 mil.



Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 30):
We're already starving for water as it (note the legislation passed a year and a half ago preventing new homes from having grass in the front yard).

The good thing is water consumption is down even though there is more and more people living here.
 
crownvic
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:41 pm

HAL...You are so correct...The runways are the main problem at LAS. With 1R/19L closed for rebuilding, I anticipate big problems this winter when North operations are quite common. The pax count for LAS will close at about 45 million this year making it quite a busy airport. On top of this, mainline aircraft(rather than RJ's) make up the bulk of the movements, unlike today's ATL, ORD or DFW stressing the system even more. Because the airport is county owned, politics are always a big part of anything to do with expansion and personally, I think they're throwing good money after bad money. Although there is plenty of room for terminal expansion, there is absolutely nothing they can do about the runways and that is where the problem exists.

It is my opinion that maximum effort should be put into Ivanpah and develop it into a major mega-airport and just shut McCarran down in the following years, sell off the land and have a ton of money to maintain the new facility. Any money pumped into McCarran at this stage is just a band aid. McCarran is bursting at the seams and without runway expansion (which is now impossible), there is little left that can be done to fix it.
 
N1120A
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:55 pm

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 30):
As for another person's comment about development around Ivanapah - it's already out there. There are 4 casinos along I-15 between the mountains and stateline that all do quite well actually (Buffalo Bill's being the biggest, I believe).

Did they change the name again? First it was Stateline, then it was Primm, is it now Ivanapah?

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 31):
And too much heat can actually ground the RJs (sensitive little pricks those aircraft are). Yes, overall the weather is pleasant but we do have our share of problems too.

Well, stop having Mesa fly so damn many for you then  Silly
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:46 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 37):
Did they change the name again? First it was Stateline, then it was Primm, is it now Ivanapah?

You're right, Stateline was the original name, then Primm (after the developer responsible for the first casinos out there), but Ivanapah refers to the valley that's actually about 10 miles north of Stateline.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 37):
Well, stop having Mesa fly so damn many for you then

I'll tell ya, if I was Dougie Parker, I'd say the same thing, but I'm just a lowly ops agent.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:47 pm

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 36):
...The runways are the main problem at LAS.

What's so wrong with the runways? Lots of airports use the dual runway system where outside is landing, inside is departure. I thought the 4 runways we had were sufficient.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
iowaman
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:06 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 37):
Well, stop having Mesa fly so damn many for you then

 checkmark 

I fail to see the need to operate CRJ's between SAN and LAX to LAS. Those destinations are huge and already have multiple mainline frequency. The CRJ's should be reserved for routes like LAS-COS, MFR and MRY where they can't really fill an A319/733, but could use the LAS service.

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 39):
What's so wrong with the runways? Lots of airports use the dual runway system where outside is landing, inside is departure. I thought the 4 runways we had were sufficient.

 checkmark 
 
HAL
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:09 pm

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 39):
What's so wrong with the runways? Lots of airports use the dual runway system where outside is landing, inside is departure. I thought the 4 runways we had were sufficient.

The biggest problem is that they are intersecting. I can't count the number of times I've been cleared into position on 25R and told to hold while one, two, three, four, or more planes takeoff on the 19's. With the intersecting runways LAS is essentially a one-runway airport for departures.

The dual runways help in arrivals. The ATIS can say they are landing on 25L, but about a third of the time they send us over to 19R. Since 25L and 19R don't intersect, we can do simultaneous arrivals without having to do Land-and-Hold-Short ops.

And HPLASOps, if you haven't heard it lately from us HP pilots, thanks for the incredible job you do in LAS. To put it nicely, you have some real 'characters' to deal with as passengers into and out of LAS. Thanks for your patience, smiles, and hard work keeping us departing on time.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:31 pm

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 36):
, there is absolutely nothing they can do about the runways and that is where the problem exists.

What's the odds they will make Sunset Road the new and improved 25L, renaming the prior 25L to 25C.  Wink At least there would be 3 non-intersecting runways.
 
HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:43 pm

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 40):
fail to see the need to operate CRJ's between SAN and LAX to LAS. Those destinations are huge and already have multiple mainline frequency. The CRJ's should be reserved for routes like LAS-COS, MFR and MRY where they can't really fill an A319/733, but could use the LAS service.

We have about 10 flights a day servicing LAS-LAX and about 6 or 7 flights servicing LAS-SAN. Most of those are mainline aircraft, but a few are rjs. YV is a completely backwards mom and pop organization who has no rhyme or reason to why they do the things they do. I'm sure YV feels like it should have a few segments to compliment our mainline as well as the small market service they provide to places like EUG, MFR, COS, FAT, and other joints like that. DEN is another example of mixing mainline and rj service. If I had the power to, I'd completely redo the schedule to what I feel would be the best mixture of service, but I don't have the power to. Hell, I'd convince HP to fly to HOU and take WN head on, since we are a low cost airline, why not cater to the lower end market of Houston the south side? But anyways....

Quoting HAL (Reply 41):
And HPLASOps, if you haven't heard it lately from us HP pilots, thanks for the incredible job you do in LAS. To put it nicely, you have some real 'characters' to deal with as passengers into and out of LAS. Thanks for your patience, smiles, and hard work keeping us departing on time.

Hey Hal, I appreciate the sentiment. It does get rough when it gets to be 11:00 pm and 10 flights are holding for 7 gates and we don't know what to do, but thank you for the appreciation.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:48 pm

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 42):
What's the odds they will make Sunset Road the new and improved 25L, renaming the prior 25L to 25C. At least there would be 3 non-intersecting runways.

Then where are all you aircraft photographers gonna perch? Sunset Rd will not be demolished, not as long as I have something to say about it. When I was a real young boy, my parents worked across Sunset Rd in a wharehouse and everyday after school I'd come sit at the wharehouse until closing watching airplanes taking off and land, thus giving birth to my interest in the industry. If they want another runway, just buy out all the land from the corner of Eastern and Tropicana to the Southwest and put a N-S runway there that stops just before 25. But leave Sunset Rd alone!
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:56 pm

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 44):

Then where are all you aircraft photographers gonna perch? Sunset Rd will not be demolished, not as long as I have something to say about it. When I was a real young boy, my parents worked across Sunset Rd in a wharehouse and everyday after school I'd come sit at the wharehouse until closing watching airplanes taking off and land, thus giving birth to my interest in the industry. If they want another runway, just buy out all the land from the corner of Eastern and Tropicana to the Southwest and put a N-S runway there that stops just before 25. But leave Sunset Rd alone!

Yeah I hear that, I was being sarcastic with the first post, hence the  Wink.
 
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tjwgrr
Posts: 2010
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:42 pm

How 'bout this..... (sounds like a pipe dream, I know)

Move Nellis out to Ivanapah. Nellis, with two 10000+ foot runways, becomes second Vegas commercial airport.

Would take cooperation between local and Fed. governments to make happen- but you never know....

Nellis:
http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0511/00227AD.PDF
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
Tornado82
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:50 pm

Quoting Crownvic (Reply 36):
On top of this, mainline aircraft(rather than RJ's) make up the bulk of the movements, unlike today's ATL, ORD or DFW stressing the system even more.

How do mainline aircraft stress an airfield system even more than RJs? RJ's take more runway than something like a 73G at times (look at MDW) and in landing some RJ's don't have T/R's that the mainliners will. Now if you're saying mainline aircraft are causing the terminals to burst at the seams with people, that's a different story, but you're still better with 1 mainline arrival VS 3 CRJ's.

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 43):
Hell, I'd convince HP to fly to HOU and take WN head on, since we are a low cost airline, why not cater to the lower end market of Houston the south side? But anyways....

Better yet... fly RJ's to DAL. If you want to take on WN, hit 'em where it huts.
 
HPLASOps
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:47 am

Quoting Tjwgrr (Reply 46):
Move Nellis out to Ivanapah. Nellis, with two 10000+ foot runways, becomes second Vegas commercial airport.

That's a terrible idea. Nellis is in a ghetto neighboorhood with horrible traffic options for getting in and out of it (you think McCarran's bad, try going to Nellis is a few times), wouldn't solve any of the problems that McCarran has, plus you know the gov't wouldn't dare force it's personnel to move somewhere else. I know a lot of modern airports used to be built on old air force bases, but it aint gonna happen with Nellis, that's a nightmare waiting to happen.

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 47):
Better yet... fly RJ's to DAL. If you want to take on WN, hit 'em where it huts.

Would love to, but I'm actually in favor of keeping the Wright admendment, I've cafefully examined both viewpoints of the issue, and I think American Airlines is right for wanting to keep Wright in place. Southwest knew what they were getting into by staying at Love while DFW was being built, they knew that the gov't would try and limit Love's growth in order to further strengthen their new baby. WN chose to be rebellious and not join the party at DFW and so that's their punishment. I also wanna see some more daily flights from LAS to SAT and AUS to take on WN (instead of just the one night flight we have which leaves at 10:50 and gets in at 3:30 in the morning - yuck, those are cities that sleep I tell ya). We're missing out on a big opportunity I think.
"Just because I know how to get off a freeway doesn't mean I know how to get back on!" - Retard Joe
 
Tornado82
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RE: Another Las Vegas Airport In The Works?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:40 am

Quoting HPLASOps (Reply 48):

Would love to, but I'm actually in favor of keeping the Wright admendment, I've cafefully examined both viewpoints of the issue, and I think American Airlines is right for wanting to keep Wright in place.

Which is why I said fly RJ's to DAL. You can fly a plane under 56 seats anywhere you please. A CRJ-200 is legal to go anywhere it's got the legs to make it to from DAL.

Like I said in another thread, if I had access to about a quarter billion, a certificate, and slots, I'd buy a dozen ERJ-145XR's, and start DAL to LAS/DEN/MCO/DCA/LGA/MDW and maybe even BOS to combat WN's total lack of presence there too. If I couldn't get slots, then I'd hit EWR/IAD instead of DCA/LGA.