RichardJF
Topic Author
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SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:12 pm

With the execution this morning of convicted Australian drug smuggler Van Nguyen the question would seem to me.

Why is Singapore Airlines not providing travel warnings in all print advertising. 80% of the Advert for example could be for Krisworld with 20% for the message that is at Changi airport regarding death sentences for drug smuggling.
 
skysurfer
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:23 pm

Maybe they're trying to seperate themselves from the 'bad' side of Singapore? I don't think they'd like passengers onboard their planes to know that they can be executed.......makes sense for SIA to be neutral and to just fly the pax in assuming the pax have researched Singapore themselves.
How bad is this execution going to be for SIA, especially in the australian market?

Stu
In the dark you can't see ugly, but you can feel fat
 
ken4556
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:27 pm

Maybe they think people have a brain and do not need to be told smuggling drugs from country to country is illegal.
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:28 pm

Any airline I have flown to Changi verbally warns prior to landing of "severe penalties of drug smuugling into Singapore". At least CX and SQ does.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
A346Dude
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:32 pm

Quoting Lufthansa747 (Reply 3):
Any airline I have flown to Changi verbally warns prior to landing of "severe penalties of drug smuugling into Singapore". At least CX and SQ does.

But what if you already have the drugs with you? Isn't that warning a little too late?
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
MarshalN
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:32 pm

Uh, people need to remember that these are illegal drugs EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD (basically, anyway). Since when can you carry heroin? I mean, does it really matter if you'll be executed instead of, oh, sitting in jail for 30 years? Why do they need to advertise explicitly?
 
Jet-lagged
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:34 pm

It is not SQ's policy. It is the government of Singapore's policy and laws.

If, for some bizzare reason, SQ would include that information in their advertisements, then other carriers should too. Or, point out that murder is also a potential capital punishment draw.

IIRC, Thailand also can impose the death penalty. Or Vietnam? I remember hearing similar verbal warnings on arrival at somewhere else in SEAsia.
 
Lufthansa747
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:38 pm

Quoting A346Dude (Reply 4):
But what if you already have the drugs with you? Isn't that warning a little too late?

Don't people also dump illegal food products in trash cans?

Anyway, you must be a moron anyway to carry heroin to another country as has been said in this thread.
Air Asia Super Elite, Cebu Pacific Titanium
 
squared
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:48 pm

I can see it now: A Singapore Girl in her sarong kerbaya, walking down the aisle in Raffles Class warning viewers about "execution by hanging", then seemlessly transitioning and extolling the virtues of the spacious and luxurious Spacebed.  Yeah sure

Seriously though, why would any company put negative information in an advertisement meant for mass media? The message that execution is the punishment for smuggling goes to a very limited audience. Putting such information in ads, where hundreds of thousands of people would see it, would tarnish the image of the company.

Besides SQ does warn about severe penalties for drug smuggling during flights. As do other airlines (MH and VN) where the death penalty is the sentence for drug smuggling.

SQuared
 
Lufthansa
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:10 pm

It's really simple

Its not SQ's fault. Why should they (SQ) be tarred with a negative brush, which would make some pax uncomfortable (innocent ones) and apprehensive about transiting in Singapore, when its completely out of their hands and nothing to do with them.

Think about it, how many innocent travellers would be worried that 'somebody may try and slip drugs in their luggage to get them past customs'... and because of that, thing, oh... lets go via some other place instead of singapore. SIA misses out on business then, for something it has no control over or part in?

But yes, this is going to be bad for them, SIA in particular, in the Australian market. Expect very strong Australian hostility towards all singaporean interests, at least for a while.
 
RichardJF
Topic Author
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:13 pm

1. Singapore Airlines is majority owned by the Singapore Government
2. Singapore Airlines is in effect the de facto International airline of Australia
It is built up off the Australian market with a very high market value.
2. Singapore has turned a blind eye to Burma a major drugs producer.

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 5):
Why do they need to advertise explicitly?

Why is it a problem if the anti drug smuggling messages are constantly reinforced in this instance?
The Australian government I would of thought need to take a very tough stance over the next few weeks to insist on far greater levels of warnings.

I'm not sympathetic to Nguyen at all and Singapore has effectively turned him into some kind innocent young man in the Australian media.
But having said that it is very easy for young people to do stupid things like this. Lots of major drug criminals want to pay young people to run drugs across borders.
 
keno
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 1:39 pm

Quoting SQuared (Reply 8):
Besides SQ does warn about severe penalties for drug smuggling during flights. As do other airlines (MH and VN) where the death penalty is the sentence for drug smuggling.

Upon landing Malaysia Airlines makes announcement about the death penalty in Malaysia for drug smuggling. At least there's some time for anyone who are stupid enough to carry them to flush it down the toilet and clear customs.

I have no pity to those who play the 'innocent' game for not knowing the local laws, hard drugs are illegal anywhere on earth so how can one be dumb enough to smuggle them?
 
PhilSquares
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:09 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 10):
Singapore Airlines is majority owned by the Singapore Government

Wrong, the largest share holder is Tamasek Investments, which is the government investment agency. The Singapore government has no say in the strategic or daily running of the airline. If you do a little research, you will also see Tamasek is also a major investor in the utility industry in Australia and has significant investments in several countries.

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 10):
Singapore has turned a blind eye to Burma a major drugs producer.

Perhaps you could elaborate? I think you may have been hoodwinked on that one!
Fly fast, live slow
 
afay1
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:11 pm

Maybe this is what happened to SingaporeAir?
 
planenutz
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:20 pm

Royal Brunei Airways publishes the following note in it's inflight magazine "Muhibah" (May/June 2005, pg9):

DRUG WARNING

The trafficking and illegal importation of controlled drugs are very serious offenses in Brunei Darussalam. The penalty for such offenses is death.

AMARAN

Mengadar dan membawa masuk dadat terkawal secard haran adalah kesalahan yang amat berat di Negara Brunei Darussalam. Kesalahan sedemikian membawa hukuman mati.

Maybe SQ should consider something to this effect.
Not all who wander are lost....
 
TheBigOne
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:24 pm

As a person from Western Europe, I do not need to be told that murder carries a possible death sentence in the USA or that drug smuggling can get you executed in a number of Asian and Middle Eastern countries. Any person intending to carry out a crime of that magnitude should be left to do the homework themselves! I would agree with warning passengers if a normally legal activity is deemed illegal in a given county (ie drinking alcohol in Saudi Arabia), but apart from that - don't do the crime if you can't do the time!
Reach for the stars - they are closer than you think!
 
docpepz
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:36 pm

Singapore has overtaken the US to become the largest foreign investor in Australia, with assets totalling A$32 billion.

Australians who want to boycott Singaporean interests in the country would have to avoid the following:

Singapore Airlines, the largest International Airline in Australia
Rex Regional Express
Optus, the second largest telecommunications company
Mayne Healthcare Group
AustraLand, a major property developer (you can go to www.australand.com.au and look at their list of property throughout Australia)

Queen Victoria Building in Sydney
Chifley Tower in Sydney
The Strand Arcade in Sydney
Galeries Victoria in Sydney
(The above buildings are very prominent landmark buildings in Sydney)

Shangri La Hotel in Sydney
Westin Hotel in Sydney (One Martin Place. Incidentally, at least three buildings in Martin Place are owned by Singaporean companies)
SP Ausnet, formerly TXU which owns Victoria's and South Australia's power and gas infrastructure and probably provides power to Mrs Nguyen's family
Westin Hotel in Melbourne (16% of hotel rooms in Australia are owned by Singaporean companies)
Basically, Australians travelling to Europe will also have to avoid Qantas as most of their flights stop in Singapore and Singapore's airport will get landing fees.
Singapore's army base in Rockhampton pumps A$20 million into the economy yearly.

There are many other investments too, I can go on and on.

It would be very very difficult for Australians to distance themselves from commercial activity in the country that does not directly or indirectly involve a Singaporean company. Singapore Airlines alone carries A$1million of fresh produce out of Australia each day.

Anyhow, the Nguyen case is pretty sad. The law is the law and remember as a small nation we have a siege mentality and small-dick syndrome. Basically, as a tiny nation, we don't have a right to exist, which is why when pushed into a corner, as a nation, we usually react strongly.

However, I believe my govt could have handled this case in a more tactful manner and not have been so clinical about the whole thing. Definitely something they can work on.

We don't proclaim to live in a true democracy or have a free press. We traded those things for the highest standard of living in Asia after Japan.

Some of you may have issues with that, and western liberals cannot understand how a supposed dictatorship could produce an advanced, prosperous nation with an educated, highly productive people. That's the unwritten contract between Singaporeans and the govt: You run your business and deliver us a high standard of living, we'll mind our own business and you can quash political dissent for all we care, as we concentrate on further increasing our standard of living.

That's our demon to grapple with though, and it may come back to bite us in the future but alas I guess I've digressed too much!
 
Simpilicity
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:44 pm

Quoting SkySurfer (Reply 1):
How bad is this execution going to be for SIA, especially in the australian market?

Will have virtually no effect. SQ are still considered best airline between OZ & UK (much better than QF although that wouldn't be hard).
 
RichardJF
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:47 pm

Quoting KEno (Reply 11):
Upon landing Malaysia Airlines makes announcement about the death penalty in Malaysia for drug smuggling.

Warnings on the plane are utterly meaningless.

When countries such as Singapore and Malaysia have death sentences for drug couriers (I'm not questioning their right to do so) the airlines of these countries which are major beneficiaries of the Australian market should be forced to provide clearly read mandatory warnings in all advertising done in Australia.

Australians frankly shouldn't be wasting their time worrying about whether such a requirement is good or not for SQ or MH's bottom line.

Singapore and Malaysia rather than spending their time worrying about saving face should be providing basic consumer protection.
Pandering to China is one thing..... Singapore or Malaysia you've got to be kidding.
 
schipholjfk
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:49 pm

Quoting TheBigOne (Reply 15):
Some of you may have issues with that, and western liberals cannot understand how a supposed dictatorship could produce an advanced, prosperous nation with an educated, highly productive people.

With all due respect, DEMOCRACY is not flourishing in Western countries.... just look a bit to your west and India happens to be the world's largest democracy.

While I love Singapore, it is a city state and with a limited sized population. And as one taxi driver told me once... through fear you can accomplish a lot. It is true that Singaporeans are deciplined and the city is beautiful, however, all you have to do is look at all the signs around the cities that spells out fines for every little thing... and soon you realize that may be fear of being fined drives the entire place.

As the taxi driver said to me:
"It is fine to visit the country, but not fine for us who live here." Get it?

No doubt Singapore is a first rate city state, but let's not go overboard... it is still a dictatorship. Enough said.
The fun of flying... love it !!!
 
wdleiser
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 2:53 pm

Simply put, your a dumbass if you take any drug onto any flight, especially an international one.

If we want warnings on flights, then how about warning everyone about flights to Egypt in fear of beheadment.

Singapore is one of the cleanest cities/countries in the world, they have a right to do what they want. I can make a good educated guess that their drug trade is just about the smallest in the world too.
 
BOEING787
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:22 pm

Quoting Ken4556 (Reply 2):

Why are we even discussing this - he broke the law and was punished according to the law of the land!

I'm sure the SQ inflight magazine or the pre-landing video mentions something about the death penalty?
 
MarshalN
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:27 pm

Quoting TheBigOne (Reply 15):
Any person intending to carry out a crime of that magnitude should be left to do the homework themselves!

EXACTLY

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 18):
When countries such as Singapore and Malaysia have death sentences for drug couriers (I'm not questioning their right to do so) the airlines of these countries which are major beneficiaries of the Australian market should be forced to provide clearly read mandatory warnings in all advertising done in Australia.



Quoting RichardJF (Reply 18):
Singapore and Malaysia rather than spending their time worrying about saving face should be providing basic consumer protection.

You mean they should be required to provide consumer protection -- for the drug smugglers? You aren't serious are you? Why on Earth should drug smugglers be "protected" if they know what they're doing is illegal? Anyone with half a brain and old enough to carry this out will know what they're doing is against the law. If they can't figure out that where they're going it's going to be the death penalty, especially after this case that's so well publicized... well, too bad for them, really.

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 19):
As the taxi driver said to me:
"It is fine to visit the country, but not fine for us who live here." Get it?

No doubt Singapore is a first rate city state, but let's not go overboard... it is still a dictatorship. Enough said.

Hong Kong might be a sham democracy, but at least the place isn't run by fear  Smile
 
zkeye
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:28 pm

I can't understand people who have any sympathy for drug runners. They are murderers pure and simple. Its one of the only things in my opinion that can justify the death penalty.

Anyway if Singapore Airlines had to advertise about the death penalty then surely ALL airlines should have to? Its not like they will only execute people from Singapore Airlines flights.
Bring out the gimp
 
singaporegirl
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:30 pm

i was out in lax the other day and say this piece on cnn on the large amount of australian youths being arrested overseas (a lot of them are in bali) for drugs charges. they were doing this news piece on some australian supermodel being arrested in bali. what is up with that? don't people know that smuggling drugs internationally is a no no? isn't that a common knowledge? do you have to be really dumb not to know that?
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
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mariner
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:34 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 18):
the airlines of these countries which are major beneficiaries of the Australian market should be forced to provide clearly read mandatory warnings in all advertising done in Australia.

Don't Australians have a duty to inform themselves about the laws of the countries they are visiting?

And what Australian does not know about the laws regarding drugs in Singapore and Malaysia?

Nguyen is not the first:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barlow_and_Chambers_execution

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 18):
Singapore and Malaysia rather than spending their time worrying about saving face should be providing basic consumer protection.

What consumer protection? The airline should protect a drug smuggler from himself?

Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
TheSonntag
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:40 pm

Last week we our law teacher said the following thing: Just because an act passes the parliament doesn't necessarily make it justice. Disproportionate crimes are never lawful.

Anyway, I have written enough about this issue already. This state will never see me, I'd rather fly to Australia via HKG or Japan, even if it takes longer or would be more expensive.

I think drug warnings aren't necessary, however, as everybody knows the facts. Therefore, while I strictly oppose the disproportionate punishments of this state, it is their own fault if they went there...
 
Halophila
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:41 pm

Quoting KEno (Reply 11):
At least there's some time for anyone who are stupid enough to carry them to flush it down the toilet and clear customs.

Please forgive me here for not being up on the details, but this bloke ever clear customs? Or was he caught in transit at the airport (i.e. going from gate to gate)?

I have to state now, I do not agree with the death penalty under any circumstances - two wrongs do not make anything right. That is just my opinion, and I respect those of others.

Aside, on topic, I do not believe that such warnings are appropriate on airlines- except at the airport prior to clearing customs on placards. The people who are smuggling drugs on their person I'd imagine are not those for whom disposing of the drugs is an option; they are desperate people - 'mules' - who are either in dire financial straits with little option for recovery, or under threats of death from the drug suppliers themselves if they do not make their delivery.
Flown on 707, 717, 727, 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87
 
singaporegirl
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:43 pm

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 19):
No doubt Singapore is a first rate city state, but let's not go overboard... it is still a dictatorship. Enough said.

i don't really know much about politics. but if i'm not mistaken under general soeharto (who was a dictator), indonesia was a wealthier and even a saver country (heck it was considered to be one of the asian "economic tigers" at one point). today, technically they're a "free" country. they have freedom of speech and eveything, but also they're much poorer, and they have bombings left and right by the terrorists.



back to singapore ... how many countries do you know on the planet that managed to switched from a third world status to a first world status within less the 30 years? yes, we are far from perfect, but there are so many developing countries on earth that are envious of us, with what we have accomplished so far (even under a 'dictatorship').





[Edited 2005-12-02 08:17:17]
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
kiwiandrew

RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:44 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 18):
Warnings on the plane are utterly meaningless.

why are warnings on the plane utterly meaningless ? I have landed in SIN and KUL on a number of occassions and have heard , and understood , the clearly spoken announcements - in what sense are they 'meaningless'

Quote:
When countries such as Singapore and Malaysia have death sentences for drug couriers (I'm not questioning their right to do so) the airlines of these countries which are major beneficiaries of the Australian market should be forced to provide clearly read mandatory warnings in all advertising done in Australia.

You want it on all advertising in Australia , are you suggesting that Australians are more likely to break the law than other nationalities ?

Many countries have capital punishment for murder - are you suggesting that airlines of these countries should have to warn Australians not to murder anyone while they are on holiday .

By your way of thinking presumably all Air New Zealand advertising anywhere in the world should carry big warnings saying that you are subject to large on the spot fines if you bring fruit into New Zealand without declaring it
 
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lightsaber
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:40 pm

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 22):
You mean they should be required to provide consumer protection -- for the drug smugglers? You aren't serious are you? Why on Earth should drug smugglers be "protected" if they know what they're doing is illegal? Anyone with half a brain and old enough to carry this out will know what they're doing is against the law. If they can't figure out that where they're going it's going to be the death penalty, especially after this case that's so well publicized... well, too bad for them, really.

 rotfl  Drug smugglers aren't like Mom and Pop buying a toy for Jr. There is no need for consumer protection of them.

Heroin has one and only one reasonable use: pain killer for the terminally ill. I have no pity for anyone dealing with such an addictive and deadly substance.

Quoting Halophila (Reply 27):
I have to state now, I do not agree with the death penalty under any circumstances - two wrongs do not make anything right. That is just my opinion, and I respect those of others.

I respect your opinion. However, after what drugs did to a friend of mine... I cannot help but believe that anyone who traffics in them knows the horrid damage they are doing to people. Anyone capable of doing that is no longer human in my book. So I won't worry about them.

This is like that American rascal who was caned for vandalism in Singapore. Singapore might have disproportionate penalties... but its a very clear system of law. I wish they'd apply some of those rules here in Los Angeles. Maybe the graffiti problem would go away...

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 29):
By your way of thinking presumably all Air New Zealand advertising anywhere in the world should carry big warnings saying that you are subject to large on the spot fines if you bring fruit into New Zealand without declaring it

Puts it in perspective. Its like an acquaintance of mine who refused to throw away his fruit while entering Mexico. When caught, he was offended the law would apply to him... Despite knowing fruit is tightly controlled into all agricultural areas. (Someone coming from California, with its strict fruit import laws has zero excuse. I'd forgive someone from a non-agriculture area.)

Maybe its because I work in aerospace engineering. We have a ton of rules and regulations we must follow... or we're liable for jail time! Yes, a desk job that has potential jail penalties. Should I rant and rave about that or realize the rules are there to keep anyone from having sole decision on something that might litter a runway with bodies.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
kl662
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:59 pm

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 20):
If we want warnings on flights, then how about warning everyone about flights to Egypt in fear of beheadment.

I always liked the sign in CAI just before immigration that said (paraphrasing) "drug smuggling is punishable by $500,000 AND death."
 
kiwiandrew

RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:00 pm

Quoting KL662 (Reply 31):
I always liked the sign in CAI just before immigration that said (paraphrasing) "drug smuggling is punishable by $500,000 AND death."

do they accept post-dated cheques?
 
HALFA
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:03 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 18):
Singapore and Malaysia rather than spending their time worrying about saving face should be providing basic consumer protection.

No they shouldn't.

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 18):
when countries such as Singapore and Malaysia have death sentences for drug couriers (I'm not questioning their right to do so) the airlines of these countries which are major beneficiaries of the Australian market should be forced to provide clearly read mandatory warnings in all advertising done in Australia

Give me a break! ONE Australian citizen smuggles 400 grams of heroin and is executed for his crime. He knew exactly what the risks were, as does anyone with half a brain, and you want airlines to place warnings in advertisements? That is completely absurd. The last Aussie to be executed in Singapore for drug running was 12 years ago. Why should airlines be forced to waste millions of dollars in advertisement warnings? Australians are intelligent people, they know what the risks are. Nguyen gambled and lost.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 25):
What consumer protection? The airline should protect a drug smuggler from himself?

Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

Amen! A Kiwi voice of reason.
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
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lightsaber
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:25 pm

I just read more on this:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...000080&sid=an9ijUfXdevY&refer=asia

Quote:

``We take a very serious view of drug trafficking; the penalty is death,'' Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong told a news conference in Berlin yesterday after a meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel. ``In this case, it was an enormous amount of drugs.''

The heroin had a street value of S$1.3 million ($770,000) and was enough to supply 26,000 doses, Singapore's Ministry of Home Affairs said today.

$1.3 million in heroin?!? This wasn't small time! 26000 doses! Out of curiosity, does anyone know h How often does someone die when taking heroin? I'm sure its more than once every 26000 doses... Sheesh. How many people was this bastard trying to kill?!? A hundred, two hundred?

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
RichardJF
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:00 pm

Attn: everyone on here disagreeing with me.
Oh...... your all talking a load of shit the whole lot of you.


Your 21 year old son or daughter goes overseas meets up with somebody who offers them $10K to take a parcel through to another city no questions asked.
Wow ....I can do this...... I can do that with -TEN - THOUSAND - DOLLARS

Stop off in Singapore or Kuala Lumpur liable to be executed
Young people do stupid things all the time.
21 year old in 2005 = 11 YEAR OLD IN 1995

Singapore and Malaysia can't have it both ways
You either have a maximum of long prison sentences for such crimes or SQ and MH should be required to lay out the consequences prior to people choosing to fly into those countries.

It's all very well for people to go on about being tough of drugs..... until it's your kid in that situation.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:17 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 35):
21 year old in 2005 = 11 YEAR OLD IN 1995

My sister was born in 1953 - so you would assume that in 2005 she would be
52 , that sounds reasonable , except she died in 1973 of a heroin overdose - the maths works both ways Richard , she wasn't even fortunate enough to get to 21 - she made the foolish decision to get involved with drugs ( as you say , young people do stupid things all the time) and paid for it with her life - my parents are still emotionally paying for it 32 years after the event - as are the husband and daughter she left behind .

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 35):
Singapore and Malaysia can't have it both ways
You either have a maximum of long prison sentences for such crimes or SQ and MH should be required to lay out the consequences prior to people choosing to fly into those countries.

As has been explained numerous times in this thread you cannot miss the warnings - the provide them inflight BEFORE reaching SIN/KUL etc - and there are huge multilingual placards on the ground BEFORE you reach customs - plenty of opportunity to dump stuff anonymously down the aircraft toilet or in a bin . In any event , at no stage of his trial did Mr Nguyen claim not to know about the penalties , please explain how a warning in an advertisement in the SMH or The Age would have made a difference .

I note also that NZ operate to SIN daily and QF , along with many other airlines operate multiple daily services - by your logic they should also have to advertise the penalties - or in your view do drug smugglers only fly on MH / SQ ?

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 35):
Attn: everyone on here disagreeing with me.
Oh...... your all talking a load of shit the whole lot of you.



well , that's a constructive argument , I guess we must all be wrong then .
 
ETStar
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:23 pm

Do people only realize the seriousness of drug trafficking when flying into Singapore? Come on! If one decides to smuggle drugs, he/she does so against any law that may exist, and he/she knows it very well. And I do hope he/she is tried and punished according to the law of the country that caught him/her, and there should be no way out.


Now imagine a smuggler on a flight from some city to another, but the flight is to divert to Singapore for whatever reason. Sucks to be him... or her.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:32 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 35):
It's all very well for people to go on about being tough of drugs..... until it's your kid in that situation.

I don't know any kids who have carried 26,000 doses through customs. I do know several who were ruined by drugs. Sadly, the one who died is much better off than the one who lived. Even worse, the "zombie" who lived was once one of the brightest kids at my high school.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
TPEcanuck
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:33 pm

In terms of celebrating the upcoming new year, can we nominate this thread as of of the more inane, but enjoyable, A.net threads in recent weeks?!

 Smile

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 9):
Think about it, how many innocent travellers would be worried that 'somebody may try and slip drugs in their luggage to get them past customs

Lufthansa...this is actually something I do worry about! A few times I've travelled from BKK to SIN, and I always shrink wrap my luggage before checking it. I've heard too many stories about the drug gangs penetrating baggage handling etc! I don't know if a hole in my shrink wrap would help prove my case....but the thought of this occuring has given me pause on occasion. Call me paranoid indeed!!

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 18):
When countries such as Singapore and Malaysia have death sentences for drug couriers (I'm not questioning their right to do so) the airlines of these countries which are major beneficiaries of the Australian market should be forced to provide clearly read mandatory warnings in all advertising done in Australia

Ah, logic is not going to 'confuse' reasoning such as this! Wow!
 
nz777
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:39 pm

I have travelled to SIN many times for work and holidays (be it on SQ or NZ).

I haven't seen any advertising relating to the death penalty within airline magazines etc, but if you read the arrival card, it has a warning about the death penalty in BIG red coloured font, around the same area where you sign the form.

As an Aussie, I obviously do not want one of my fellow citizens to die, but if you willingly do the crime, you have to do accept the consequences.

FYI - in Sydney's Telegraph newspaper today, the cartoon sums it all up, it is a cartoon of a mother of a drug victim who died due to an overdose stating I wish I could have hugged him before he died. Remember, this fellow was bringing attempting to bring back drugs to Australia!

This I believe puts it into perspective
Air New Zealand, nothing else needed to be said...
 
HALFA
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:41 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 35):
your all talking a load of shit the whole lot of you.

If my 21 year old son is not smart enough to know that smuggling heroin into Singapore is punishable by death, then he certainly is not smart enough to be reading airline advertisements in the newspaper, or inflight magazines warning him against the dangers of smuggling drugs into Singapore.
I can just see it now. hmmm..."I think I'll smuggle heroin into Singapore for a $10,000 payoff, oh no wait, this airline advertisement says that if I'm caught, I'll be convicted and hung. I better not do it. Thank God for this airline advertisement, it saved my life."

Get real!
HA J Class Lie flats, coming soon to a plane near you........
 
AsianFA
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:42 pm

Tell that to my father n mother who lost a son to overdose of heroin addiction.Its people like Nyugen who r killing the young people by supplying the drugs.How many people would have died if his shipment made it through n got onto the streets?I can bet u those who have had family/friends killed by heroin will have no pity and probably even be all for capital punishment.
Its greed n stupidity...any1 in their right mind knows.
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:01 pm

The Philippines used to have warnings posted on their immigration forms that are passed out during flight stating that the penalty for drug smuggling is death. It's a government form that all airlines pass out, so that's a way of assuring that everyone gets the message.

I remember landing in Changi and leaving from Changi and thinking in advance that searches must be comprehensive because of the drug issue. However, nobody was even around when I arrived at customs, and when I left it was just your basic x-ray metal detector routine. They (the customs officers at Changi) must do alot behind the scenes with dogs, etc.

I think the real culprit is the A#$hole in Australia who recruits these mules and takes the big chunk of the profit. As long as these guys are around they will always find some gullible person who is willing to take the risk. They'll keep getting caught, and keep getting hung while the drug lord thinks of it as just a dent in his operation. The death penalty will never deter them and they will always find someone desperate to do their dirtywork.

LPLAspotter
Nuke the Gay Wales for Christ
 
manni
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 7:53 pm

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 43):
The Philippines used to have warnings posted on their immigration forms that are passed out during flight stating that the penalty for drug smuggling is death. It's a government form that all airlines pass out, so that's a way of assuring that everyone gets the message.

The same warning is written on immigration forms to ENTER Singapore, however anyone in transit not going trough Singapore immigration is not given an immigration form.

Therefore we can with a good certainty say, that the unfortunate guy never got to read the message, he might have never known the consequences of his crime untill it was to late. Many of us are aware of the severe penaltys for drugtrafficking and the terrible consequences for drug addicts when taking drugs, he might have not known it. If he was naieve enough to smuggle drugs, he was probaply also to naieve what the consequences were.

The drugs were not for Singapore, if he wasn't naieve, he would have taken a direct flight, or a flight via another transit point, were penaltys aren't as severe. Even if that was going to be more expensive and time consuming. The cheapest option was certainly not the order of the day.

The murder of this young men is a crime, the Singapore governement is rightfully put to shame by the media troughout the world. Assured that he wasn't innocent, he admitted on the spot, when busted. This young men did not deserve to die, but could have been a great help to roll up the whole gang, including the guy that 'loves basketball', in Australia.

Now there's a gang of 9 Australians being held in Bali, eventually they might end up like todays Australian. They might well be connected with todays case.
If Nguyen was asked to assist in rolling up his Australian partners in crime, they might have never been able to 'use' yet again young 'greedy' Australians.
SUPPORT THE LEBANESE CIVILIANS
 
TheSonntag
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:17 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 44):
The drugs were not for Singapore, if he wasn't naieve, he would have taken a direct flight, or a flight via another transit point, were penaltys aren't as severe. Even if that was going to be more expensive and time consuming. The cheapest option was certainly not the order of the day.

The murder of this young men is a crime, the Singapore governement is rightfully put to shame by the media troughout the world. Assured that he wasn't innocent, he admitted on the spot, when busted. This young men did not deserve to die, but could have been a great help to roll up the whole gang, including the guy that 'loves basketball', in Australia.

I couldn't agree with you more, welcome to my RU list!

I read the case (there is a link in the non-aviation forum). What really gets me angry is the fact that he was charged for "importing" drugs to singapore. He was in the transit area, so he DID NOT import if you look on the good that this law is trying to protect. It gets even worse by the fact that the judge is using the typical Common law techniques, yet this judgement is a disgrace as it ignores all basic rules of law.

Flame me for this, but this is my opinion.

Michael
 
kiwiandrew

RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:27 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 45):
He was in the transit area,

so if he murdered someone in the transit area that wouldn't be any business of the Singapore authorities either ? we can get away with criminal acts because they are committed 'in transit' ? I must remember that next time someone really pisses me off on a long flight and I feel like throttling them
 
TheSonntag
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:39 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 46):

The law in Singapore states that IMPORTING drugs is punishable with death. He was in TRANSIT, so he DID NOT IMPORT.

Of course, national law is applicable in a transit area. I did not say it isn't. But this guy did not import into Singapore, neither did he intend to do so. So this offense, (which I do not think is good, transporting drugs is a very serious offense, but must not be punished by death) as bad as it was, should not be put into the same league as importing, as the intended purpose of the law (protecting Singapore from drugs) was not threatened by the offense of van Nguyen.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:47 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 47):
Of course, national law is applicable in a transit area.



so what you are saying is that instead of charging him with importation
( since he didn't import it into Singapore ) , they should have charged him with possession (since by your own admission national law is applicable in a transit area ) . Let's see , he had 400g of heroin in his possession , and possession of more than 15g is punishable by death under Singapore law . If I follow your logic they have carried out the right sentence for the wrong season ? From what I can see the result is still the same .

[Edited 2005-12-02 12:59:00]
 
Leskova
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RE: SIA- Why No Drug Warnings In Advertising?

Fri Dec 02, 2005 8:49 pm

Applying the same principle - shouldn't UA, AA, CO and other US airlines warn people in their advertising that you can be executed for killing a person in the US? I'm just using the US as an example here - obviously that rule would then also have to apply to all airlines based in other countries that still have the death penalty...

Seriously - the answer is a simple no. They should not.

Wherever you travel, you should be aware of the fact that the laws and customs of that country may, and probably will, be different from where you live.

Abide by them, and you won't be getting into trouble.

Break them and you will.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!