LAXDESI
Topic Author
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 8:13 am

AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:49 pm

An article in Business Standard on AA, CO non-stop Delhi flights.
Link:
http://www.business-standard.com/com...lselect=4&chklogin=N&autono=207247

Selected Quotes:

Pricing:
The result is a competitive pricing on tickets — Rs 38,000(USD 850) return on American Airlines, Rs 45,000(USD 1,000) for a round trip on Continental, and a flying time of just 16 hours.

India-USA Market Size:
American Airlines has also entered into a code-share partnership with Air Sahara to offer connectivity in both the US and India, to passengers of both Air Sahara and American Airlines. “This will result in higher air traffic between the two countries, which is currently approximately 2.75 million passengers. It is growing at 5 per cent per annum,” says Henry C Joyner, senior VP, planning, American Airlines.

[Edited 2005-12-02 07:56:55]
 
UAL777UK
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Fri Dec 02, 2005 5:49 pm

Interesting article.

It will get even more competitive when UA enter the market. Thats not an if either, its just when!
 
Xkorpyoh
Posts: 727
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:22 am

I am still questioning CO & AA's schedule to DEL. Arriving around 930pm doesnt allow for connections to other points in India and that airport is horrible to even try to find a layover hotel to connect the next morning.

Also, it seems that they didnt take in consideration the infamous DEL fog in the winter. To avoid it, they need to land after 11am and leave in the afternoon. (BA for example arrives at 1030am and leaves at 1230pm to avoid the fog).

Finally, i don't understand why they didnt start with BOM instead of DEL. No fog and more business paxs, i think.
 
LAXDESI
Topic Author
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:30 am

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 2):
Finally, i don't understand why they didnt start with BOM instead of DEL. No fog and more business paxs, i think.

I think they are flying 772ER or older 773ER which does not have the range to reach BOM. I agree than BOM would be a better choice, but over time DEL should do well from ORD.
 
A360
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:50 am

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 3):
I think they are flying 772ER or older 773ER which does not have the range to reach BOM. I agree than BOM would be a better choice, but over time DEL should do well from ORD.

They are flying 772ER's in the route. There is no US carrier operating 773ER's.

As for BOM... well... EWR-HKG (12980 km) is longer than EWR-BOM(12565 km), which is also longer than EWR-DEL(11786 km).

And CO flies EWR-HKG using a 772ER... so maybe they could do EWR-BOM... unless the winds are more favourable on the EWR-HKG run or something... EWR-HKG is "more polar" than EWR-BOM, which could make it easier (less winds, because of no east-west traveling).

Regards:
A360
 
BigGSFO
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:57 am

Quoting UAL777UK (Reply 1):
It will get even more competitive when UA enter the market. Thats not an if either, its just when!

I am guessing when UA jumps into this market it would be via Asia or from the West Coast (probably SFO). East of the Mississippi to India is fairly well covered with AA, CO, AI and the larger number of airlines connecting via Europe.
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:06 am

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 3):
I think they are flying 772ER or older 773ER which does not have the range to reach BOM. I agree than BOM would be a better choice, but over time DEL should do well from ORD.

AA doesn't have any 773ER's..they only have RR-powered 772ER's...and the reason why they chose that schedule is so that AA arrives ORD early enough for connecting flights throught the United Stats, though I've mentioned in numerous posts that they should have an earlier arrival time @ DEL.....

one possibility is to have a couple of planes fly that route, I know its more expensive, but it will give the pax the flexibility they need....ie. arrive @ ORD and DEL in the morning.....and obviously, this can't be done with one plane...

maybe they are experimenting right now and finding out what the optimised time will be....

AA's 772ER's should have the range to fly ORD-BOM also, but they wanted to start up their DEL route first, maybe in due time they will go to BOM.....

would be nice to see AA serve multiple points in India from multiple points in the USA, such as SJC/DFW (both which have a large indian population).

that being said, I hope DEL, as well as Indian airports in general, improve enough and become efficient enough to allow pax to connect to other places at night....hey, one can hope... Smile

[Edited 2005-12-02 18:07:03]
"Up the Irons!"
 
commavia
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:12 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6):
one possibility is to have a couple of planes fly that route, I know its more expensive, but it will give the pax the flexibility they need....ie. arrive @ ORD and DEL in the morning.....and obviously, this can't be done with one plane...

The route already requires two aircraft as is. The rotation starts when the flight leaves ORD at 1940, then departs DEL two days later at 0055, arriving ORD at 0520 on the third day of the rotation. They need two aircraft as is to make the flight work. I don't see why they can't move the ORD departure up from 1940 to, say, 1740, two hours earlier, which would go a long way in creating interline connecting possibilities with S2, 9W, etc. at DEL.

As it is, when the flight arrives into ORD from DEL at 0520, it likely just sits at ORD for hours, and then maybe does AA90 ORD-LHR at 0910, or AA153 ORD-NRT at 1100. Either way, though, the return from NRT, AA154, gets into ORD at 1520, early enough for my suggested 1740 departure to DEL, and AA has two flights (AA87 and AA67) that both get to ORD by 1500, again, with more than enough time to turn around and get out to DEL by 1740.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 6):
AA's 772ER's should have the range to fly ORD-BOM also, but they wanted to start up their DEL route first, maybe in due time they will go to BOM.....

AA's 777s (and indeed all 777-200ERs, to my knowledge) don't have the range to do ORD-BOM year-round, nonstop, both directions. The rumor a few months back was that ORD-DEL nonstop was a precursor to 763 flights BRU-BOM, connecting with the JFK-BRU and ORD-BRU routes, and with SN's European network over BRU.
 
tomindc
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:22 am

I've posted this before but don't remember getting any answers. If the CO/AA flights don't have the range for BOM, where are their alternates for the severe fog in DEL in the Winter? I've been in DEL when the fog hits and it's absolutely amazing --- even the trains crawl as the fog is so thick it's almost impossible to see anything.
 
Xkorpyoh
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:36 am

Quoting Tomindc (Reply 8):
If the CO/AA flights don't have the range for BOM, where are their alternates for the severe fog in DEL in the Winter? I've been in DEL when the fog hits and it's absolutely amazing --- even the trains crawl as the fog is so thick it's almost impossible to see anything.

They are going to learn about the fog problems the hard way.
Those connections that are allowed by the late departure from ORD will be greatlly affected by the fog.
 
deltagator
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:37 am

Quoting Tomindc (Reply 8):
I've posted this before but don't remember getting any answers. If the CO/AA flights don't have the range for BOM, where are their alternates for the severe fog in DEL in the Winter? I've been in DEL when the fog hits and it's absolutely amazing --- even the trains crawl as the fog is so thick it's almost impossible to see anything.

Check this posting. Buried down in it is a deciphering of the flight plan. CO's plan for that day shows Islamabad as the alternate site. Can't speak for AA but I would reckon it is the same. What other large airports are close to or before (in the scheme of the flight) DEL that could be used an an alternate and could be reached by the 777 being used?
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
CHI787ORD
Posts: 668
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:31 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 10):
What other large airports are close to or before (in the scheme of the flight) DEL that could be used an an alternate and could be reached by the 777 being used?

ATQ (Amritsar, India) for sure can handle a T7. I'm not sure but maybe Jaipur?
 
jacobin777
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:28 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
The route already requires two aircraft as is. The rotation starts when the flight leaves ORD at 1940, then departs DEL two days later at 0055, arriving ORD at 0520 on the third day of the rotation. They need two aircraft as is to make the flight work. I don't see why they can't move the ORD departure up from 1940 to, say, 1740, two hours earlier, which would go a long way in creating interline connecting possibilities with S2, 9W, etc. at DEL.

duh..my bad.... Sad

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
AA's 777s (and indeed all 777-200ERs, to my knowledge) don't have the range to do ORD-BOM year-round, nonstop, both directions. The rumor a few months back was that ORD-DEL nonstop was a precursor to 763 flights BRU-BOM, connecting with the JFK-BRU and ORD-BRU routes, and with SN's European network over BRU.

hmmmm..interesting...I didn't know it wasn't a problem for the -200ER to serve ORD-DEL full year...

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 10):
CO's plan for that day shows Islamabad as the alternate site.

would love to see an American air carrier back in Pakistan (obviously not due to emergency purposes).....I haven't seen that since I flew Pan Am to Karachi back in the early eighties... biggrin 
"Up the Irons!"
 
Alias1024
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:32 pm

Quoting Xkorpyoh (Reply 2):
Also, it seems that they didnt take in consideration the infamous DEL fog in the winter. To avoid it, they need to land after 11am and leave in the afternoon. (BA for example arrives at 1030am and leaves at 1230pm to avoid the fog).

To do this, Continental would have to leave EWR around somewhere in the 1200-1400 timeframe. Nobody from the west coast would be able to connect to the flight. I bet both airlines are fully aware of the fog, but knew the route would do much better if west coast passengers can connect to it.

Leaving DEL in the afternoon presents another problem during the summer. What should AA and CO do with the 10,000 pounds of passengers or cargo they would have to leave behind due to weight restrictions?
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
LAXDESI
Topic Author
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:33 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 12):
I didn't know it wasn't a problem for the -200ER to serve ORD-DEL full year...

I think you meant ORD-BOM.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: AA, CO Non-Stop To DEL Article

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:13 pm

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 14):
I think you meant ORD-BOM.

correct.. Smile
"Up the Irons!"

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