D L X
Topic Author
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Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 3:30 am

Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:11 am

http://news.yahoo.com/s/wdiv/20051202/lo_wdiv/3097199

Wow! How often do pieces or airplanes fall off in flight?
 
BMIFlyer
Posts: 8065
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:17 am

Ouch, anyone have a pic of that kind of Bolt??


Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
Wow! How often do pieces or airplanes fall off in flight?

Quite often actually, I can think of a couple dozen incidents that I know of personally, including Concorde losing pieces  Smile

Part falls from BA 777

Concorde rudder part falls off

747 lands after engine falls apart in flight

Just a few links for you.
 
A319XFW
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:25 am

There is the lovely pic of a nacelle missing (in flight pic from cabin) from an engine - someone forgot to latch it fully and it broke off in flight. The lavs must have been well visited on that flight!
 
slider
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:27 am

I remember when part of the gear door off a TWA L-1011 fell off over downtown STL...landed right on a busy street, fortunately not killing or injuring anyone.
 
Falcon Flyer
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:39 am

Kalitta Air dumped an engine into Lake Michigan on a 100 series 747 climbing out of ORD back in October 2004.
My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
 
BR076
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:52 am

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
Wow! How often do pieces or airplanes fall off in flight?

Never watched Donnie Darko?  Wink
Can Someone Explain Donnie Darko To Me? (by Newark777 Dec 1 2005 in Non Aviation)#ID1021167
ú
 
m404
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:55 am

I'd love to see how they have traced it to that flight number already. Just to see the line of investigation would be interesting and informative.
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
DouglasDC8
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:57 am

United lost a fueling panel cover off a DC-10 while it was on approach to Newark a while back. The fueler in Dulles failed to secure it properly. The cover then hit a NJ Transit commuter train! Train travel can be dangerous!

Imagine that-a DC10 From IAD to EWR!!! Those were the days!
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting M404 (Reply 7):
I'd love to see how they have traced it to that flight number already. Just to see the line of investigation would be interesting and informative.

It probably went something like this:

1. police pick up part.
2. part taken to maintenance hanger at DTW.
3. part identified as A330.
4. tower records show what airlines and flights used A330s around the time the incident happened on saturday
5. airlines contacted to check their A330s
6. missing part discovered.


or, alternatively the airline could have found the part missing on a routine maintenance check at the start of hte week, or the captains walk, or the police simply rang up Airbus who said 'yeah, that parts serial says it was sold to airline X.'
 
D L X
Topic Author
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:25 am

I'm pretty sure I read another report before they knew where the part came from that said the part has a unique identifier on it that would tell investigators exactly what plane the part came from. Neat, ain't it?
 
MarshalN
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:56 am

Hmmm, DTW, A330..... is this another bad PR about NW's new mechanics?
 
ikramerica
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting D L X (Reply 11):
I'm pretty sure I read another report before they knew where the part came from that said the part has a unique identifier on it that would tell investigators exactly what plane the part came from. Neat, ain't it?

that's becoming quite common.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
KDTWflyer
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:14 am

Great, im going on a NW A333 in a few weeks. Anyway, check out these Kalitta pics of the missing engine...



NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
 
Tornado82
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:26 am

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 12):
Hmmm, DTW, A330..... is this another bad PR about NW's new mechanics?

Wow we made it all the way to reply 12 before someone made the obligatory  butthead  comment. I'm so impressed.  sarcastic 
 
trnswrld
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:30 am

Quoting KDTWFlyer (Reply 14):
Great, im going on a NW A333 in a few weeks.

and your point being? you act as if the aircraft is unsafe or something.
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:57 am

Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 5):
Kalitta Air dumped an engine into Lake Michigan on a 100 series 747 climbing out of ORD back in October 2004.

That's good they made it to the airport after losing an engine, re: AA DC-10, Flt. 191 I believe, they didn't fare as well.
 
KDTWflyer
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting TrnsWrld (Reply 16):

and your point being? you act as if the aircraft is unsafe or something.

I was being sarcastic, but still things shouldn't being falling off airliners.
NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
 
whitehatter
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:26 am

Quoting KDTWFlyer (Reply 18):
I was being sarcastic, but still things shouldn't being falling off airliners.

do you know how many parts an airliner has?

Things work loose over time, and daily maintenance/inspection can't cover every single one of them. Losing the odd part here and there is all part of everyday operations, and sometimes the parts are not even missed due to redundancy and overdesign.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
KDTWflyer
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:33 am

So your saying things should be falling off airliners?
NW B744 B742 B753 B752 A333 A332 A320 A319 DC10 DC9 ARJ CRJ S340
 
Newark777
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:16 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 17):
That's good they made it to the airport after losing an engine, re: AA DC-10, Flt. 191 I believe, they didn't fare as well.

That flight didn't crash because of the engine falling off. It crashed because the slats, I believe, on the wing with the missing engine retracted, causing that wing to stall when the plane didn't go fast enough. I'm sure you know what happened once that occurred.

Harry
Why grab a Heine when you can grab a Busch?
 
Web
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:25 am

Did the lady have to return the bolt? 'Cause I would have wanted to keep it...
 
N808NW
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:40 am

wow... that happend just a few days before I flew on NW 31 on tuseday. NW A330s are truly the best aircraft i have ever been on!!


-Jason  swirl 
All flights have great IFE...get yourself a window seat, thats something no PTV can beat! flew 808 Pacific an Atlanic
 
cvg2lga
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:51 am

what goes up must come down
Tchau
DA-
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
MarshalN
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:25 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
Wow we made it all the way to reply 12 before someone made the obligatory comment. I'm so impressed.

Thanks for your equally  butthead  comment. I actually couldn't care less one way or the other what happens with NW or what not. I am neither anti nor pro NW (or their unions). I just think that in light of the string of little incidents that got magnified by the press on NW's maintenance, this is just another piece of news they don't need. What's so  butthead  about that?
 
warszawa
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 12:41 pm

Quoting KDTWFlyer (Reply 20):
So your saying things should be falling off airliners?

Any plane has parts that fall off over time. I fly a C-172 3 times a week, students fly it also and its always in the air along with plenty of other C-172's my flight center has. Parts falling off is not uncommon, 90% of the time it's screws around the engine cowling.

I flew yesterday and during my preflight some of the screws around the engine were loose. Generally 1 or 2 falls out every now and then. We're allowed to fly with some missing. If many are missing, obviously, you wouldent want to fly with a few screws holding the engine cowling in place. Usually the screws are re-tightened and any missing screws are replaced during every 50 hours of flight (50 hour inspection). The plane I flew yesterday was 8 hours from its 50 hour, the screws were somewhat loose though none had fallen out.

Most of the planes are older K/M 172's from the 1970's. It takes a lot of abuse from student pilots with 1-10 hours or so (imagine all the rough landings). Though, some of the newer 2003/2004 SP's have screws that come loose over time also.

There are hundreds of planes each day that probably lose some small parts, probably a screw or so (mostly general aviation), possibly some airliners too. You just never hear about it because it doesnt hit anyone/anything, doesnt cause harm, or nobody notices that it fell off.

Doesnt necessarily mean that the plane is unsafe.
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:16 pm

Wait a minute, if a bolt falls off and leaves a 8 inch hole in the roof of a house, what do you think it would do to a car on the freeway? to a pedestrian? It could be as disastrous as a plane crash if it caused a major pileup on a busy freeway.

What is the difference between a 15 lb. bolt falling off a plane and having the same bolt thrown off by a passenger? Nothing really.....should be attempted homicide either way.

Tighten the damn bolts and be 100% sure they are not going to wiggle loose.  banghead 
 
Tornado82
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 1:59 pm

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 27):
should be attempted homicide either way.

Umm... at MOST it would be involuntary manslaughter. And that's only if they could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone individually was entirely negligent in maintaining and inspecting that part on the A330 which is entirely responsible for it's fall. Basically, you'd NEVER prove it. Attempted homicide involves malicious intent. I doubt someone loosened that bolt trying to get it to kill someone.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:35 pm

Correct, sorry about that. Poor choice of terms on my part.

These things should never happen. F1 racers always seem to keep their wheels unless involved in an accident. I guess I really can't say how important it is that no solid object depart from an airliner for any reason. I think we have been very fortunate so far, if the truth is that this happens so often it is not really worth mentioning anymore.

It just doesn't seem like there should be any level of acceptable risk in this area other than zero.
 
deltagator
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:50 pm

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 17):
That's good they made it to the airport after losing an engine

Ah, the dreaded 3 engine landing in a 747.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
jarheadk5
Posts: 216
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:12 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 30):
Ah, the dreaded 3 engine landing in a 747.

BIG difference between landing a 747 on 3 with an engine shut down, and landing a 747 on 3 with an engine that has physically removed itself from the wing in-flight...


And NO, NOTHING should be falling off an aircraft in-flight. If you're losing panel screws in-flight, there's a problem that needs to be fixed, and not just explained away by saying "it's all those rough student landings".

There is NO room for complacency in this business.
Cleared to Contact
 
RichardPrice
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:30 pm

Quoting JarheadK5 (Reply 31):
And NO, NOTHING should be falling off an aircraft in-flight. If you're losing panel screws in-flight, there's a problem that needs to be fixed, and not just explained away by saying "it's all those rough student landings".

There is NO room for complacency in this business.

I agree. There was this little matter of a wear strip from a DC-10 in 2000 that caused some issue....

 duck 
 
BA747400
Posts: 381
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:36 am

Granted this is probably just a myth, I once heard that the Concord looses 11 parts for every flight....a screw, a bolt, etc....

Anyone else heard this?

Mike
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:43 am

A FEDEX DC-10 lost an engine cowling while climbing out of OAK and pilots didn't realize it until they landed at DFW. This was about a year ago. I think the cowling ended up in someone's backyard.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
whitehatter
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:47 am

Quoting JarheadK5 (Reply 31):
And NO, NOTHING should be falling off an aircraft in-flight. If you're losing panel screws in-flight, there's a problem that needs to be fixed, and not just explained away by saying "it's all those rough student landings".

There is NO room for complacency in this business.

Try getting a job in the industry then. Your comment is laughable.

Hundreds of thousands of parts, temperature changes of up to a hundred degrees inside minutes, extreme vibration and all the other factors. And you expect NOTHING to work loose?

When you come off that cloud, you might want to look into something called redundancy. Parts do work loose and detach, it's part of what happens when huge machines thunder into the air. Redundancy means those parts are generally not critical to keeping it up there and the loss of a few small (or not so small in the case of Kalitta!) items just means the rest can take up the slack.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:57 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 35):
When you come off that cloud, you might want to look into something called redundancy. Parts do work loose and detach, it's part of what happens when huge machines thunder into the air. Redundancy means those parts are generally not critical to keeping it up there and the loss of a few small (or not so small in the case of Kalitta!) items just means the rest can take up the slack.

At A.net, there seems to be this idea that only the airplane matters....if stuff falls off, no big deal since there is redundancy. Understood and agreed with, but what of those on the ground...do they give a F about redundancy when a large chunk of steel is about to impact with their head?

It is possible to reduce this occurance to zero....but it takes dedication (and a little more money). I say a hefty fine should be levied against any airline whose parts are found where they should not be.
 
dl1011
Posts: 315
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:13 am

As long as the public can get cheap fares, who cares if a couple of parts fall off? Actually, less parts equals less weight which means lower fuel burn which means lower costs which mean even lower fares!
 
warszawa
Posts: 549
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:28 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 34):
Try getting a job in the industry then. Your comment is laughable.

Hundreds of thousands of parts, temperature changes of up to a hundred degrees inside minutes, extreme vibration and all the other factors. And you expect NOTHING to work loose?

When you come off that cloud, you might want to look into something called redundancy. Parts do work loose and detach, it's part of what happens when huge machines thunder into the air. Redundancy means those parts are generally not critical to keeping it up there and the loss of a few small (or not so small in the case of Kalitta!) items just means the rest can take up the slack.

WhiteHatter is exactly correct.

Quoting JarheadK5 (Reply 30):
If you're losing panel screws in-flight, there's a problem that needs to be fixed, and not just explained away by saying "it's all those rough student landings".

Losing screws is not a problem that needs to be fixed on an immediate basis, unless a significant number of screws is missing. On our C-172's, that is really the only thing i've ever heard of falling off in flight (The engine cowling screws). Generally its around 45+ hours (if we bypass the 50hour inspection since its not required, it'll be fixed on the 100hour, or theres a large amount missing, the plane will enter maintenance immediately). Everything else holds its place because its either built in the plane or held via rivets or cables.

Can you imagine how many landings there are? We rarely ever do one. on Thursday I was doing Short/Soft field takeoffs and landings. We did 6 landings and takeoffs. If the average student does 3 each time he goes up, and we reach the 50 hour inspection, thats 150 landings. Hell of a lot in a C-172, you expect all those screws to hold perfectly snug?

If each student does this and the plane flies for 50 hours where no maintenance is required, theres no room complacency?  Yeah sure

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 35):
It is possible to reduce this occurance to zero....but it takes dedication (and a little more money).

It takes TONS of time and TONS of money if you're an airline. I cant imagine if you expected them to keep a close eye on ALL of their aircraft, or, ALL of Northwest's some 200+ DC-9's. Perhaps you'd like the job to inspect all the screws, nuts, and bolts on a 747. Do it daily since you're dedicated. Do it fast because the plane is scheduled on a DTW-RJBB run. Otherwise the airline it'll cost the airline thousands if you're late. It'll cost the airline customers if you cant count fast enough.

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 35):
I say a hefty fine should be levied against any airline whose parts are found where they should not be.

There are fines, but not on small ridiculous bolts/nuts/screws, which account for almost the only thing that falls off in flight.

'Parts' is very vague, thats like saying the police should impose a hefty fine if they find that you're car doesnt have parts where it should.
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near

Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:17 am

Is there no aviation equivalent to LokTite?

I'm sure the airlines do not fear being sued by typically lower income folks who live under airport approach paths. If airliners were dropping bolts into posh neighborhoods I am sure the poop would hit the fan.
 
GDB
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:20 am

BA747400, whoever told you that Concorde (the 'e' since 1967), lost 11 parts per flight, was talking total BS.
How likely does it sound? Really?
One per flight, on the relatively rare occasions it happened, either a small part or a rudder de-lam, was throughly investigated, involving not just BA, but usually the AAIB too.
This is true of all other types too.

While in principle it is true that parts should never come off, of any kind, how many making sweeping, judgemental comments, have ever actually worked in the industry, better still, on aircraft?
You do know that whoever last worked on a part that fell off, can almost always be traced?
 
N79969
Posts: 6605
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:26 am

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
http://news.yahoo.com/s/wdiv/20051202/lo_wdiv/3097199

Wow! How often do pieces or airplanes fall off in flight?

It is not particularly rare or unusual for things to occasionally come loose and fall off. I do not think the problem can ever be entirely eliminated.
 
NASCARAirforce
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Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:28 am

Didn't Spirit lose part of an engine on one of their MD-80s on approach to DTW over Dearborn a couple years back?
 
crjflyer35
Posts: 509
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:41 am

Quoting JarheadK5 (Reply 30):
There is NO room for complacency in this business.

I agree also, at the same time I understand what WhiteHatter is saying. S**T is gonna happen, no matter what you do.

Regarding AA191, the cause of that crash was complacency. When the Mechanics removed the engine / pylon assembly, they did so when they were still connected together. However, the manual stated that the engine should have been removed seperately from the Pylon assembly, by being hoisted down to a waiting table. They used a forklift to do this, thus causing a metal fatigue on a bolt / rib that wasn't designed to take weight upward when the forklift raised up to attach to the engine / pylon. That's where complaceny is to blame.
Of course, I'm no expert on the subject, I just happened to see a Discovery Channel show on the crash recently...

hope everyone has a great day
Ok, wait for the RJ to pass, cleared to push tail south Mike, and you're cleared to spin #2 in the push.
 
Jumpseat70
Posts: 359
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:00 am

In 1970, the 747's would lose a nacelle on a weekly basis, until we resolved the problem.

It seems they, the nacelles, had 11,000 more screws than the Boeing 707, occasionally, the mechanics would not do their jobs properly. I recall a TWA pilot asking me to go back and see if all four nacelles were attached one day. It seems somebody's fell on a Paris housetop. Not funny when you are on the ground.
"Up, Up and away with TWA"
 
thegooddoctor
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:12 am

RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:10 am

Quoting KDTWFlyer (Reply 17):
I was being sarcastic, but still things shouldn't being falling off airliners.

This is true, things shouldn't be falling off of airliners. Airliners shouldn't crash because of mechanical problems either. Trains should not derail. Sport utility vehicles should not overturn because of faulty tires. Restaurants should not sell food that causes food poisoning. Banks should not make mistakes that cause their customers hassle and financial hardship. Doctors should never make mistakes that cause people discomfort or even death, and police officers should never arrest people based on mistaken identity.

If you're not seeing my point, I'll make it clearer: The best efforts, by qualified, well trained, experienced professionals sometimes yield problems. Imperfect humans sometimes make mistakes.

This is, of course, assuming there is some sort of error on the part of the maintanence team that serviced this aircraft - there are things that occur which are beyond our control. This happens with all of the professionals listed above as well, it is not indemic to aviation professionals.
The GoodDoctor
 
jarheadk5
Posts: 216
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:45 am

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 34):
Try getting a job in the industry then. Your comment is laughable.

Been in the industry, military and civilian, since '93. What do YOU do?

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 34):
Hundreds of thousands of parts, temperature changes of up to a hundred degrees inside minutes, extreme vibration and all the other factors. And you expect NOTHING to work loose?

I don't expect NOTHING to work loose, I expect that it be FIXED before it falls off. I maintained and crewed the CH-53E in the Marine Corps for 11 years, and other helicopters in the civilian world - I am intimately familiar with the concepts of vibration and multiple landings.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 34):
When you come off that cloud, you might want to look into something called redundancy. Parts do work loose and detach, it's part of what happens when huge machines thunder into the air. Redundancy means those parts are generally not critical to keeping it up there and the loss of a few small (or not so small in the case of Kalitta!) items just means the rest can take up the slack.

Obviously, my mindset as a maintainer of multi-million dollar aircraft is a bit different than yours. Oh well.

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 37):
Losing screws is not a problem that needs to be fixed on an immediate basis, unless a significant number of screws is missing.
...
Generally its around 45+ hours (if we bypass the 50hour inspection since its not required, it'll be fixed on the 100hour, or theres a large amount missing, the plane will enter maintenance immediately).

I find it hard to believe that as a student pilot, you're so cavalier about the mechanical condition of the aircraft you're trusting your life to.

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 37):
Can you imagine how many landings there are? We rarely ever do one. on Thursday I was doing Short/Soft field takeoffs and landings. We did 6 landings and takeoffs.

Try 3 hours of shipboard landings in a 50,000lb helicopter that has 7 main rotor blades, 4 tail rotor blades, 3 engines, and over 13,000hp. Again, I am intimately familiar with the concepts of vibration and multiple landings.

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 37):
If the average student does 3 each time he goes up, and we reach the 50 hour inspection, thats 150 landings. Hell of a lot in a C-172, you expect all those screws to hold perfectly snug?

If each student does this and the plane flies for 50 hours where no maintenance is required, theres no room complacency?

Ever heard of a "pre-flight" or a "post-flight" inspection of your aircraft??? Ever heard of "preventive maintenance" that is allowed, by the FAR's, to be performed by the pilot of an aircraft?
Roll your eyes all you'd like, but the fact remains - complacency is deadly in aviation. I really hope you learn it the easy way, because not everyone survives the hard way.

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 37):
I cant imagine if you expected them to keep a close eye on ALL of their aircraft, or, ALL of Northwest's some 200+ DC-9's. Perhaps you'd like the job to inspect all the screws, nuts, and bolts on a 747. Do it daily since you're dedicated.

I ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY EXPECT them to keep a close eye on ALL of their aircraft! That's their JOB!

And yes, I am dedicated. Thank you.
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:59 am

Surprised the SCAB mechanic comment didn't come up yet for Northwest.
 
ContnlEliteCMH
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:27 am

Quoting MD80fanatic (Reply 35):
It is possible to reduce this occurance to zero

I can never get a real bead on you. Sometimes you say poignant things; sometimes you're a loon. And today, you're a loon. Or you've been drinking. Either way, I can't tell.

Stick to small business and programming, because it's obvious you haven't a clue what you're talking about when it comes to machinery.

Oh, and I insist that you completely give up aviation. Just like abstinence is the only way to meet your zero tolerance policy vis-a-vis procreation, the only way to avoid parts falling off of fabulously complicated aircraft is to stop flying.
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:38 am

Quoting GDB (Reply 39):
While in principle it is true that parts should never come off, of any kind, how many making sweeping, judgemental comments, have ever actually worked in the industry, better still, on aircraft?

No, see, in principle you *plan* for parts to come off. You don't need to work in the industry or on an aircraft. You merely need the least rigorous of thought, and/or a dictionary.

"Safety factor" is a way to quantify the risks associated with load. A proper engineer always designs a safety factor for all of his systems. Let's take the bolts that hold your car's brake calipers onto its mounting bracket. Those bolts are way, *way* bigger than what is ever actually required to hold on the calipers. In fact, they will be multiples stronger than is required. Same thing for lug nuts. And rivets on a fuselage panel. Etc.

"Redundancy" is the embodiment of the planning for parts shedding and other sorts of failures. If you never lost fasteners, you'd use far fewer of them. If you never lost engines, you'd only ever have one. If a pilot never made a mistake, you'd only use one at a time.

When you combine safety factor with redundancy, you get a properly engineered piece of machinery.

Look, I'm not trying to be insulting, but I am positively flabbergasted at the utter nonsense proposed in this thread. If you think it's possible for any piece of machinery to truly hit "zero failures," even in ideal operating conditions, I freely and correctly conclude you should have the good graces to stay out of discussions about the physical world to which we are subject.

[Edited 2005-12-04 02:40:53]
Christianity. Islam. Hinduism. Anthropogenic Global Warming. All are matters of faith!
 
AirRyan
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RE: Piece Of A330 Landing Gear Falls On House Near DTW

Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:38 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 46):
Surprised the SCAB mechanic comment didn't come up yet for Northwest.

Scab? What are you talking about?  Smile NW mechanics are no longer represented by AMFA and in case your still holding your breath out there in the cold (versus playing the mall Santa Claus where you'd actually be coming home with some money in your pocket at the end of the day) and haven't heard the newsflash - AMFA screwed their member mechanics when they lost the "disagreement" with NW.

Nobody forced NW AMFA mechs to walk off thier jobs and unions only work when they work with each other - AMFA lost as soon as the pilots and FA's at NW choose not to stand with them; something tells me the IAM with their "Teamsters" backing would have done a better job of representing the mechanics at NW.

I'm not saying anyone won here, all parties lost something in this disagreement, but it's cold as a witches nipple outside right now and it sucks to see people lose their jobs because of others mistakes.