PavlovsDog
Topic Author
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:26 am

With LAX and SNA maxed out and nimby's not wanting any growth at Burbank or Long Beach could the massive area encompassing Los Alamitos Armed Forces Reserve Center and Seal Beach Naval Weapons Station be the ideal location for a 2nd major international airport for Southern California?

Not being a SoCal native these are my impressions of the possibilities.

Plusses

- Space enough for four paralell north-south runways with very low impact of populated areas in approaches/take-offs.

- excellent free-way access

- lots of space for facilities

- would enable closing of LGB and SNA.


Minuses

- The Naval Weapons station is still in use

- The portion of Seal Beach north of the 405 would probably need to be razed. This would displace a couple thousand people. Difficult politically and expensive!

- To the Southwest of the Naval Weapons station is a wildlife refuge with significant bird populations. This would make cause more political complications and might impact operations.


What are your opinions of this siting?
 
User avatar
ERJ170
Posts: 5486
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:15 am

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:28 am

Wasn't there a push to open Palmdale airport to scheduled aircraft service? has this occurred? is it slot restricted too?
Aiming High and going far..
 
usatoeze
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:22 pm

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:30 am

Too close to other LA area airports. Palmdale and or Oxnard/Ventura airport would be better(by no means perfect) than another airport close to Long Beach, John Wayne, or LAX.
War is a very poor political tool
 
PavlovsDog
Topic Author
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:33 am

I don't know about Palmdale other than that it is a long ways away from the rest of the LA area. Nobody is going to want to drive two hours to take a flight and the population of the Palmdale area is relatively small.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:36 am

If it were to supplant long beach and john wayne, then I'd say people might go for it as long as there is good access too it. Both Long Beach and SNA are restricted and curfewed an the land is far more valuable as non-aviation related.

Palmdale is way too far away for international traffic to make sense, but I assume it could be another LA airport for domestic and regional traffic (Vegas, san fran, hub feeders, WN focus area...)
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
loisencroach
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:56 am

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):

I don't live in the Antelope Valley, so somebody from the LA Area would know more about this than I would.

LAWA has been trying to expand the commercial potential of PMD. Two factors have prevented it from being realized. One is that the Lancaster/Palmdale shares the same predicament as Rockford. Too close to LA for residents of the Antelope Valley, but too far for residents of the Hollywood/Burbank area.

Also, some defense contractors have been vocal in their reluctance to see PMD opened to more commercial use. From what I read, they see it as an inhibitor to certain projects that are undertaken by the Air Force Plant that is on field.

Although the Census Bureau doesn't list it as neither a Metropolitan or a Micropolitan Statistical Area (which I don't know why), the combined population of Lancaster, Palmdale, Rosamond, Vincent, and Quartz Hill exceeds 292,000.

America West used to have mainline service there. Would be nice if Mesa put some RJ's back into that market.

Future Allegiant city?
 
PavlovsDog
Topic Author
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:46 am

According to the Census Bureau Palmdale/Lancaster has a population of 480,238.

It is only a matter of time before someone significant starts service there. It can never be anything more than a local airport though. Too isolated for anyone but people from Santa Clarita to make the drive though. Maybe people from North San Bernadino county too. That gives it a catchment area of maybee 800,000.
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:51 am

Any military site in Southern California will be virtually impossible to convert to civilian use.

El Toro was offered and refused. The extent of illogic was shrill and almost beyond belief - "the 10,000+ foot long runway is too short and the whole thing is too close to the mountains!", so it is becoming a giant park.

San Diego continues to spend horrendously vast sums of money exploring places to relocate our beloved Lindbergh Field. Logistically, the only viable option would be Miramar; however, if (and I stress a very big "if") the site was ever relinquished, it would probably be turned into houses.

Gotta love Southern California - too many houses, too many cars, too small of airports, but it's all someone else's fault...besides, we're too busy on our cell phones yakking away trying to drink our lattes in 5 mph traffic in our new behemoth SUV's to think about the future...  wink 
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
as739x
Posts: 5008
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 5:57 am

Palovsdog: To close to the current airports and population. SNA is working on building a new terminal and LGB is upgrading as it can.

First, now are you talking on the south side of the 405 freeway? What the map is not showing you, if thats the case, is that a lot of that is swamland. So if you were to build there you would have a huge increase in cost as you would have to land fill. Not to mention its still a US Navy storage area.

Second, N-S runways would not work. You would be landing with a constant crosswind. Either direction you shift the runways will interfer with something. Its a great idea, but one that would have to many obsticles to clear.

ASLAX
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
PavlovsDog
Topic Author
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 6:29 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 8):
First, now are you talking on the south side of the 405 freeway?

I was thinking two runways on the NW side of the site with the 405 in a tunnel under the runways and another two runways south of the 405 at the eastern end of the site. Terminals could be located both north and and south of the freeway in a central area a lá LAX/ATL/MUN.
 
MDW22L31C
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:03 am

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:02 am

How about Building a airport in Camp Pendleton?
 
User avatar
ramprat74
Posts: 1328
Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2003 6:01 pm

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:04 am

It would never work. There are too many houses in between Los Alamitos and the I-405 freeway.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=lgb&ll...12&spn=0.061276,0.161774&t=k&hl=en
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:22 am

Quoting AS739X (Reply 8):
Palovsdog: To close to the current airports and population. SNA is working on building a new terminal and LGB is upgrading as it can.

Actually SNA is trying to build a couple additional gates only.. The terminal is almost new itself..
Not quite sure what the point is except help some overnight aircraft remain on gates instead of being towed off. The airport is very likely to hits is federal court mandated passenger traffic limit come 2007/8. Airlines have been warned by the airport that forced cancellations might take place to stay under the limit for subsequent years.

As far as LGB, they are expanding to basically make permanent the portable trailer gate area accommodations and such that are being used currently.
Almost no growth is likely here due to the slot limit and strong NIMBY crowd.
In addition does not help that part of the MDC property on the north side is being built into mixed residential/retail areas which will reinforce the NIMBY voices.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
PavlovsDog
Topic Author
Posts: 534
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:28 am

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:25 am

In Germany they razed an entire villlage to make Shoenfeld the main airport in Berlin. I realize that the US lacks strong regional governments that would allow an airport to happen at Seal Beach/Los Alamamitos. That doesn't mean that in a hypothetical world it wouldn't be a great site for a second international airport for SoCal though.
 
rage323machine
Posts: 78
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:41 am

RE: New LA Airport At Seal Beach/Los Alamitos?

Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:32 am

Better yet lets use Hawthorn and torrence airpots too!!!!! Maybe even compton? All 3 for commercial use perfect!!!!

I don't know really best bet would be El Toro but it was turned down