werdywerd
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Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:51 pm

Jetblue just announced that the Terminal 5 demolition and construction of a new 635,000 square-foot 26-gate terminal will begin this month! It will be able to handle 250+ flights a day. Parking garage, airtrain connector and new roadways will also be built. 30-Year lease has been signed with PANYNJ.

7 temporary gates will be added to Terminal 6 in the meantime to handle immediate growth by early 2006.

They will have a ceremony and media event on Dec. 7th where the blueprints for the new terminal will be made public.

Slated to be ready by early 2009.

 Smile
 
tommy767
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:54 pm

Awesome! is there a link?

tommy in EWR/LAX.
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werdywerd
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:55 pm

No public link yet. Wait until after Dec 7th.
 
werdywerd
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sat Dec 03, 2005 2:56 pm

Whoops, scratch that. A quick google search produced this:

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7001254397
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:10 am

Yes! Finally! JetBlue has had this up their sleeves for quite awhile and have contantly found things to hold them back. But finally, it's happening!

BTW, is there a launch date for the 7-gate addition to T6? Because that's more near-term that really interests me more.

JetBluefan1
 
NIKV69
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:19 am

Wow, that is some news. I hope they make a nice parking garage so I can shoot from the top of it!  camera 
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RAMPRAT980
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:23 am

Does Jet Blue use the old TWA building ?
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MarkATL
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 1:41 am

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 1):
Awesome!

What's so "awesome!" about it? Although I do like and fly JetBlue I don't understand all the hype. It will be an airline terminal, but they'll lay some blue carpet, eveyone will munch on some blue potato chips and watch some TV. Then the whole crowd will act like the the little rubber space alien dolls in "Toy Story" going "ohhh ahhh, take me to your leader".


[Edited 2005-12-03 18:01:35]
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STT757
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:02 am

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 6):
Does Jet Blue use the old TWA building ?

The Port Authority owns T-5, T-6. B6 is a tenant with a long term lease.
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AwysBSB
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:29 am

If have created this thread I would have named it as “Jetblue absurd construction is to start”.
I just cannot understand how so many people get enthusiastic with an immature terminal project!
Currently, T5 satellites can have more than 26 gates and there is a parking lot area to T5 expand, following a similar model of the T6`s.
I have to tell you I am disappointed with my fellow citizen whom is managing this absurd, Mr. David Neeleman.
“Rotonga”, or the star-sized satellite, and the “747 gates”, or the guitar-sized satellite, were designed by Eero Saarinen (in 1952) and Kevin Roche & John Dinkeloo (in 1967), respectively, and have a more organic architecture than several of the last concourses built in new airports.
I hope someday many of you have the sensibility to analyze what were lost, so other important things in aviation will not be destroyed in the future.
 
crogalski
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:59 am

Quoting MarkATL (Reply 7):
What's so "awesome!" about it? Although I do like and fly JetBlue I don't understand all the hype. It will be an airline terminal, but they'll lay some blue carpet, eveyone will munch on some blue potato chips and watch some TV. Then the whole crowd will act like the the little rubber space alien dolls in "Toy Story" going "ohhh ahhh, take me to your leader".

Have you ever been in T6 during a busy season?

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 9):
If have created this thread I would have named it as “Jetblue absurd construction is to start”.
I just cannot understand how so many people get enthusiastic with an immature terminal project!
Currently, T5 satellites can have more than 26 gates and there is a parking lot area to T5 expand, following a similar model of the T6`s.
I have to tell you I am disappointed with my fellow citizen whom is managing this absurd, Mr. David Neeleman.
“Rotonga”, or the star-sized satellite, and the “747 gates”, or the guitar-sized satellite, were designed by Eero Saarinen (in 1952) and Kevin Roche & John Dinkeloo (in 1967), respectively, and have a more organic architecture than several of the last concourses built in new airports.
I hope someday many of you have the sensibility to analyze what were lost, so other important things in aviation will not be destroyed in the future.

Whoopdedoo, do you want the terminal to be used as is? with all of the asbestos and all of the other stuff in there? Yes, it is a landmark.. but right now, it's a complete waste of space in my opnion, it's not used, only B6 uses it to park aircraft. Times change, and I think this will be good for both JetBlue and JFK.
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AA767400
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:10 am

Correct me if I wrong, but were they not going to keep the orginal terminal, and just tear down the back portion of the structure?
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werdywerd
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:27 am

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 11):
Correct me if I wrong, but were they not going to keep the orginal terminal, and just tear down the back portion of the structure?

Yes, the front "bird like" structure will remain untouched. The rear will be demolished and rebuilt.

Here is an artists rendition from a while back:

http://www.aia.org/aiarchitect/thisweek04/tw0820/0820jetblue_b.jpg
 
AA767400
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:32 am

Now that is awesome! Keeping the classic front, well having a modern terminal in the back. Very nice!  smile 
"The low fares airline."
 
N1120A
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:32 am

Quoting Werdywerd (Reply 12):
Yes, the front "bird like" structure will remain untouched. The rear will be demolished and rebuilt.

Here is an artists rendition from a while back:

That looks really good actually. I think Eero would be proud
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:42 am

IIRC, the politically-powerful historic-preservation interests in NYC threw a fit when expansion for the T5 area was mentioned a few years ago. Whether the Port Authority was planning to tear down T5 or not I don't know, but that is prime real estate in an extremely busy airport. Making it useful to a major, growing tenant is IMO the first and foremost consideration.

Fortunately, as the well-known image posted by Werdywerd shows, PANYNJ did find a way to accomodate the most historically valuable part of T5, and still get a functional updated design. This is IMO a better idea than keeping the bug-like original concourses which probably would be expensive to preserve, and probably less efficient in use of apron space and for passenger circulation. The new design can probably accomodate moving sidewalks if needed, too.

Jim
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RAMPRAT980
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:41 am

Quoting Werdywerd (Reply 12):
Yes, the front "bird like" structure will remain untouched. The rear will be demolished and rebuilt.

Looks very impressive but I think they will outgrow it and need more space quickly
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N1120A
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:55 am

Quoting RAMPRAT980 (Reply 16):
Looks very impressive but I think they will outgrow it and need more space quickly

Aren't they going to use both terminals?
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DCA-ROCguy
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:16 am

Ramprat--I think this building should hold JetBlue for awhile. Its 26 gates plus 16 in T6 gives B6 44 gates. At a rate of 10 turns per gate per day, that would allow 440 dailies. IIRC, they're not even at 200 dailies from JFK yet (someone correct me if wrong). That should buy B6 several years, I think.

Your observation points to one less-than-ideal fact of the situation. The Saarinen building, according to JFK experts in our past threads was not suitable to use as a main terminal for several reasons. Keeping it meant pushing the new terminal back (by my estimate) several hundred feet from the existing roadway, to clear it around the back.

That probably cost at least 10, maybe 15 gate positions in the configuration of the new terminal. Were the new terminal located where T5 is, it could probably have had a second outward-projecting concourse where the linear concourse at the foreground of the photo is. The one at the end of the triangular section also could have been longer. So there is a practical cost to keeping T5.

Jim
Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:10 am

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 18):
Its 26 gates plus 16 in T6 gives B6 44 gates

Actually it'll just be the 26 gates at T5; T6 will be torn down (if I have my facts straight).

In any case, the plan will call for 26 gates, but they do have both the ability and blueprints for an additional 10 gates.

JetBluefan1
 
AADC10
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:25 am

Most critics feel that the new construction will leave the Saarinen check-in area to wilt and die, because nobody will want to go through there, they would go to the main terminal behind it. It would just sit there like a white elephant. Does anyone know what the passenger flow would be through the terminal?
 
rjpieces
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:31 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 20):
Does anyone know what the passenger flow would be through the terminal?

Who knows. They might make it a restaurant, or museum. I think I remember reading that there will be B6 checkin there.

That photo is absolutely gorgeous. But what will be where T6 is now? That picture makes it look like the new terminal will be entirely on the old T5 ramp.

Perhaps the PANYNJ should consider building a midfield concourse when T6 is knocked down?
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werdywerd
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:48 am

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 20):
Does anyone know what the passenger flow would be through the terminal?

Last I heard, the checkin kiosks will be located in the Saarinen building in front, if you don't want to use the kiosks, you still have to walk through the old structure and through to the new terminal via the multiple tubes you see pictured above. The rear roadway will be for arrivals only, front roadway is departures.
 
bigdrewfl
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:11 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 21):
Quoting AADC10 (Reply 20):
Does anyone know what the passenger flow would be through the terminal?

Who knows. They might make it a restaurant, or museum. I think I remember reading that there will be B6 checkin there.

That photo is absolutely gorgeous. But what will be where T6 is now? That picture makes it look like the new terminal will be entirely on the old T5 ramp.

Perhaps the PANYNJ should consider building a midfield concourse when T6 is knocked down?

The plan calls for T6 to be "knocked down" and T5 will be eventually be expanded to a 36 gate terminal.
 
AwysBSB
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting Crogalski (Reply 10):
do you want the terminal to be used as is? with all of the asbestos and all of the other stuff in there?

How would T5 be used, if TWA was still flying?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
I think Eero would be proud

In my opinion the proud ones must be the B6`s and the PA`s people, since they think they have right of destroying a landmark.

Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 15):
Fortunately, as the well-known image posted by Werdywerd shows, PANYNJ did find a way to accomodate the most historically valuable part of T5, and still get a functional updated design.

This idea of transforming Eero Saarinen building into a museum just makes a waste of space!
If that terminal was converted into a baggage claim building and a new check-in building was created in front of the former one (on the parking lot), the whole Eero Saarinen terminal would be appropriately used and its airside area would keep as big as it is.
JetBlue is just throwing its money away and that shows their inexperience with an upstart mentality.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 20):
Does anyone know what the passenger flow would be through the terminal?

The common passengers will face the Eero Saarinen building as an obstacle between the parking lot and T5.
 
N1120A
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:20 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 19):
Actually it'll just be the 26 gates at T5; T6 will be torn down (if I have my facts straight).

But they will then expand into the area where T6 is
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
werdywerd
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:34 am

From the info I have, T6 will be torn down and a parking structure will be built in its place.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:16 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 24):
In my opinion the proud ones must be the B6`s and the PA`s people, since they think they have right of destroying a landmark.

Not to be rude but...get a grip. The landmark isn't being destroyed!

Right now T5's sitting there with absolutely no use. The whole check-in area and the tubes will be incorporated into the design. As for the old gate area...that's hardly a landmark if you ask me. It's small, cramped, and has no taste. The real piece of art is the check-in area/lounge center.

I understand that you have strong feelings for this project, and that's fine, but get your facts straight! The landmark isn't being knocked down!

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 24):
JetBlue is just throwing its money away and that shows their inexperience with an upstart mentality.

People said that about the TV's, new planes and leather seats too.

In no way are they throwing away their money...they're investing in New York City, their main hub. They will need the space to expand, and this is a very smart and necessary move. This doesn't show inexperience; this shows their need for space to expand. And what do you suppose that they do...have half of their flights at Terminal 6 and the other half at the AA terminal?

JetBluefan1
 
Kahala777
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 9:32 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 24):
In my opinion the proud ones must be the B6`s and the PA`s people, since they think they have right of destroying a landmark.

Huh? Please elaborate!

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 24):
If that terminal was converted into a baggage claim building and a new check-in building was created in front of the former one (on the parking lot), the whole Eero Saarinen terminal would be appropriately used and its airside area would keep as big as it is.

Seriously, you need to take a trip to the United States and see the crap heap that T5 has become, most of which was due to TWA and its neglect of everything they touched near the end. Jet Blue is making use of the T5 and reviving what once was.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 24):
JetBlue is just throwing its money away and that shows their inexperience with an upstart mentality.

Throwing money away on passenger comfort, and convenience?

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 24):
The common passengers will face the Eero Saarinen building as an obstacle between the parking lot and T5.

Huh? Put a little more into the reasoning there...

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concentriq
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:36 pm

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STT757
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:57 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Aren't they going to use both terminals?



Quoting DCA-ROCguy (Reply 18):
think this building should hold JetBlue for awhile. Its 26 gates plus 16 in T6 gives B6 44 gates. At a rate of 10 turns per gate per day, that would allow 440 dailies

T-6 will be torn down, a aircraft hard stand area will take it's place. An LCC even with the phenomenal growth of B6 has no use for more than 26 gates, WN's largest operations (PHX, LAS, BWI) are no larger than 26 gates.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 21):
think I remember reading that there will be B6 checkin there.

They (b6) said they might put some electronic ticket kiosks in there, otherwise check-in will be in the new building.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
incitatus
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:08 pm

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 9):
I hope someday many of you have the sensibility to analyze what were lost, so other important things in aviation will not be destroyed in the future.

I feel obligated to disagree with your perspective.
New York is a very large metropolis. It is very difficult to go through all the hoops to do something simple in the city. Even to get a permit to add a garage and a driveway cut on a curb is a nightmare and far from a done deal. Imagine build a whole enormous building with dozens of aircraft gates.
The City cannot afford to take an entire building in the middle of JFK and bottle it like preserve. There is no place to put another airport in New York and people need to travel. The idea that every significant building needs to stand forever cannot fly in such an environment.
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jetbluefan1
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:15 pm

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 31):
New York is a very large metropolis. It is very difficult to go through all the hoops to do something simple in the city. Even to get a permit to add a garage and a driveway cut on a curb is a nightmare and far from a done deal. Imagine build a whole enormous building with dozens of aircraft gates.
The City cannot afford to take an entire building in the middle of JFK and bottle it like preserve. There is no place to put another airport in New York and people need to travel. The idea that every significant building needs to stand forever cannot fly in such an environment.

Well said, indeed. As a Long Islander I completely agree - real estate is so expensive here and yet there is so little supply. Queens simply cannot afford to have its most precious piece of real estate - JFK - being the holder of a terminal that generates no revenue whatsoever. I suppose AwysBSB has no knowledge of the Tri-state market; here we go by the modo that if it's not being used, it's going to! There are certain areas that have free, open space, but JFK is not one of those areas.

JetBluefan1
 
Mir
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:34 pm

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 9):
Currently, T5 satellites can have more than 26 gates and there is a parking lot area to T5 expand, following a similar model of the T6`s.

T5, beautiful as it is, was designed a long time ago, and is no longer suitable for use as a terminal on its own (due mostly to security requirements IIRC).

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 24):
If that terminal was converted into a baggage claim building and a new check-in building was created in front of the former one (on the parking lot), the whole Eero Saarinen terminal would be appropriately used and its airside area would keep as big as it is.

I'd rather have the new terminal behind (as it is planned to be now) than have the Saarinen building hidden behind a new check-in building (which would shroud the Saarinen building completely if it were to be big enough to satisty B6's needs).

Quoting Werdywerd (Reply 26):
From the info I have, T6 will be torn down and a parking structure will be built in its place.

Seems kind of strange to me, considering that that's valuable ramp space that could be used for another terminal (perhaps B6 eventually if they need to expand).

Does anyone know if the new terminal will have customs and FIS for B6's Caribbean flights (and perhaps European someday?), or will they continue to use T4 for that?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
flashmeister
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:11 pm

Some good, recent shots of the interior of Terminal 5 are available on Flickr. See here and here.

[Edited 2005-12-04 07:14:52]
 
RAMPRAT980
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:28 am

nice pics Flashmeister
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AwysBSB
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:41 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 27):
People said that about the TV's, new planes and leather seats too.

In no way are they throwing away their money...they're investing in New York City, their main hub. They will need the space to expand, and this is a very smart and necessary move.

OK, TVs, new planes and leather seats are for competitiveness.
However, there is no competition for acquiring T5 in JFK.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 27):
This doesn't show inexperience; this shows their need for space to expand. And what do you suppose that they do...have half of their flights at Terminal 6 and the other half at the AA terminal?

I do not know why B6 does not imitate the WN`s strategy, of acquiring hubs in several regions of the US.
Why B6 has to centralize so much service in just one region?

Quoting Incitatus (Reply 31):
The City cannot afford to take an entire building in the middle of JFK and bottle it like preserve.
(...)
The idea that every significant building needs to stand forever cannot fly in such an environment.

I agree with you, and that is why I think Port Authority should not transform the Eero Saarinen building into a white elephant.

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 32):
I suppose AwysBSB has no knowledge of the Tri-state market;

Please, what is to have knowledge of the Tri-state market?
An important fact I know is that there is no other carrier interested in T5 than B6.

Quoting Mir (Reply 33):
T5, beautiful as it is, was designed a long time ago, and is no longer suitable for use as a terminal on its own (due mostly to security requirements IIRC).

To Eero Saarinen terminal be no longer suitable for use it need to be submitted for a very unqualified refurbishing project.
 
Mir
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:53 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 36):
I do not know why B6 does not imitate the WN`s strategy, of acquiring hubs in several regions of the US.
Why B6 has to centralize so much service in just one region?

#1: Because B6 doesn't completely imitate WN. It's not their business model. They have assigned seating, IFE, two types of planes, etc.

#2: Because there's a lot of money to be made in that region. Boston, New York and Washington are three of the most important cities in the US, and B6 is capitalizing on that.

Your logic is somewhat confusing - are you saying that B6 should center their entire strategy around leaving T5 sitting vacant? That is pretty ridiculous.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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STT757
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:09 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 33):
Seems kind of strange to me, considering that that's valuable ramp space that could be used for another terminal

The Port Authority's long term plan is to reduce the number of Terminals at JFK to 5, 9 was way too many. It's way to costly to heat, air condition, police, power nine 45+ year old structures compared to 5 new efficient buildings. It's also easier for the PA police to cover 5 Terminals and also easier on transiting passengers.

That's why they only built 5 Airtrain station, there is a tremendous amount of capacity at existing terminals yet to be realized. Terminal 4 the center piece of the JFK expansion only has 16 gates, it can easily be expanded to 30+ gates should capacity warrant such an investment.

T-4 as it is now is a ghost town from 7AM-4Pm, they would love to increase domestic traffic through the terminal if there was sufficient demand.

Besides T-4 there's also the new AA T-9, that terminal was originally envisioned to have 55 gates but the scaled back plan calls for only 37. Im sure AA and the Port Authority would jump at the chance to bring in more tenants to help off set the very costly yet under utilized Terminal.
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Mir
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:20 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
The Port Authority's long term plan is to reduce the number of Terminals at JFK to 5, 9 was way too many. It's way to costly to heat, air condition, police, power nine 45+ year old structures compared to 5 new efficient buildings. It's also easier for the PA police to cover 5 Terminals and also easier on transiting passengers.

Agreed, absolutely. But why build a parking garage on space that could be used to expand the new T5 towards where T6 was (or expand T7 in that direction)? I believe that's what the original design was for, and it makes sense to me - ramp space shouldn't be wasted.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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STT757
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:25 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 39):
Agreed, absolutely. But why build a parking garage

Who ever said a "car" parking garage is wrong, they are going to build an aircraft hardstand parking area. JFK has alot of aircraft sitting around most of the day, they need additional hardstand parking areas.
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rjpieces
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:51 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
That's why they only built 5 Airtrain station, there is a tremendous amount of capacity at existing terminals yet to be realized. Terminal 4 the center piece of the JFK expansion only has 16 gates, it can easily be expanded to 30+ gates should capacity warrant such an investment.

Indeed. That is why it bothers me when people talk about building new airports for NYC, or expanding Stewart. JFK still has plenty of room. Even this new jetBlue terminal looks like it could be larger than 26 gates if necessary.

Hopefully in a few years the plan to consolidate Delta's operations in T2 and T4 will proceed. T4 will then get much needed foot traffic....But it will still be mostly in the afternoon.

For the life of me I don't know how stores in T4 make money...

Quoting STT757 (Reply 38):
Besides T-4 there's also the new AA T-9, that terminal was originally envisioned to have 55 gates but the scaled back plan calls for only 37. Im sure AA and the Port Authority would jump at the chance to bring in more tenants to help off set the very costly yet under utilized Terminal.

No reason not to build more gates there....They will be used sooner rather than later, by somebody.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 40):
JFK has alot of aircraft sitting around most of the day, they need additional hardstand parking areas.

I imagine British Airways will be very happy with new hardstands next to their terminal...No more parking a 744 across 13L.
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MarshalN
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:07 am

The Saarinen building has needed a revamp for a long time. It was great when it was built, but really, it's not very functional in this day and age. I'm glad they're updating it while keeping the front.
 
AwysBSB
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:13 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 37):
Your logic is somewhat confusing - are you saying that B6 should center their entire strategy around leaving T5 sitting vacant? That is pretty ridiculous.

I would be thankful if you specified the confusion of my logic.
The point I was defending is that B6 should acquire other hubs (maybe STL, MEM, CVG or TPA) instead of being so focused on JFK.
In my opinion, B6 should take T5, but without making so many changes or wasting ramp space.
All Eero Saarinen terminal would need is a new check-in building in front of it, just that!
Due to market competition, NYC market is not able to continuing capitalizing B6, if B6 continue growing there.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:18 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 36):
Please, what is to have knowledge of the Tri-state market?
An important fact I know is that there is no other carrier interested in T5 than B6.

Of course it's important to have knowledge of the tri-state market! Terminal 5 is sitting on prime real estate yet it is taking in no revenue. Queens County cannot afford to keep the situtaion as is.

Additionally, the fact that no other carrier is interested in T5 is a non-factor. JetBlue is. That's enough - they're an expanding airline with over 200 planes on order, and JFK is their main hub. New York City is going to accomodate them no matter what.

You're really not making any sense...I don't understand what you're arguing.

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STT757
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:20 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 41):
Hopefully in a few years the plan to consolidate Delta's operations in T2 and T4 will proceed. T4 will then get much needed foot traffic....But it will still be mostly in the afternoon.

Terminal One only has 11 gates, the Port Authority should expand T-4 from 16 gates to 27 and consolidate the Terminal One airlines to T-4. Then move DL to Terminal One, and either add a second concourse off of Terminal One or build a mid-field concouse connected to Terminal One via an underground walkway on the land currently occupied by T-2.

That would eliminate T-2 and T-3, and replace it with a larger T-1 with either a second concourse or a mid-field concourse connected to T-1.

The main Terminal One's 11 gates would handle DL's Wide body flights, and they could build a Mid-field concourse for RJ's, 737s, 757s etc.. Perhaps 11-15 additional Domestic gates for a total of 22-26 Terminal One gates.

That would be the most cost efficient way to expand JFK's capacity while at the same time giving DL new digs and bringing more business to T-4, T-4 should be the main International Carrier Terminal. No more new Terminals after B6's T-5, expand Terminal One and Terminal 4 and eliminate T-2, T-3.

Consolidating the airline operations into fewer but larger terminals would be much more efficient for everyone, Transiting passengers, Port Authority Police and even the TSA.

Think about all those TSA agents and those huge Multi-Million dollar CTX machines, some screeners like the ones at T-6 are very busy while others at T-4 and T-1 are sitting around for much of the day. From a man power perspective consolidating further the airline operations would reap huge savings.
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jetbluefan1
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:21 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 43):
Due to market competition, NYC market is not able to continuing capitalizing B6, if B6 continue growing there.

Once again, you show no knowledge of the Tri-state market. There is so much untapped potential it's ridiculous. JetBlue will exploit that potential.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 43):
The point I was defending is that B6 should acquire other hubs (maybe STL, MEM, CVG or TPA) instead of being so focused on JFK.

How has JetBlue not acquired other hubs? They just signed a long-term lease for 11 gates at BOS. They have focus cities in IAD, LGB, OAK and FLL and continue to grow operations there. JetBlue is not "so focused on JFK." They have plenty of flights out of their other operations too.

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STT757
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:33 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 44):
Of course it's important to have knowledge of the tri-state market! Terminal 5 is sitting on prime real estate yet it is taking in no revenue. Queens County cannot afford to keep the situtaion as is.

Queens County is irrelevant because it's the City that collects the taxes, also the Port Authority is exempt from Local City and State Taxes which is why they pay rent money in lieu of taxes on the Airports and the World Trade Center site.

There was a big fight between the City of Elizabeth (South of Newark Airport) and the Port Authority because the Port Authority bought a piece of property at exit 13 A by the Jersey Gardens mall on behalf of CO, CO wanted to build a pilot training/simulator facitlity there so the Port Authority bought the land for CO. By buying the land the Port Authority exempted CO from paying local taxes to the City of Elizabeth on the faciltity, the City of Elizabeth threw a tantrum and set up "safety" inspection check points on roads leading into and out of the Port thus harassing Port Authority tenants.

The PA dropped the land acquisition deal.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
RiddlePilot215
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:38 am

Quoting JetBluefan1 (Reply 46):
How has JetBlue not acquired other hubs? They just signed a long-term lease for 11 gates at BOS. They have focus cities in IAD, LGB, OAK and FLL and continue to grow operations there. JetBlue is not "so focused on JFK." They have plenty of flights out of their other operations too

If you ask me B6 reaks of reminance of People's Express.....

I'm not making predictions, but I think we all know what their history was  Smile

::cough cough Terminal C at EWR...cough cough::

As for ther old TWA terminal...ugh..I understand change comes, but really, why to such a great building? Its design ushered in the age of true airport design. Where terminals were meant to be an extension of the airline that used it, and was a means of attracting passengers to fly your airline.
I've always loved that building, as a kid I can remember walking through the terminal feeling as though I was about to embark on a flight back in the late 60's early 70's. The terminal had pizzaz, asthetics, and just was downright cool to check into.....It's sad that JetBlue is so focused on trying to change the world with radical design, as opposed to just stepping back for a change, leaving some things as is, and just improving on an already beautiful design.

Any good architect designs his/her buildings to the style, flare, and love that Eero had for that terminal, designs it to last a lifetime WITHOUT modification.

So much for American culture.....
God is good, all the time. All the time, God is good.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: Jetblue JFK Construction To Start!

Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:41 am

Thanks for that clearing up. It's quite interesting that there's a New York Port Authority yet other airports in other cities are owned directly by the city.

Ok, so New York City (more specifically, the Port Authority) cannot afford to have such a valuable item, like a large land area at JFK, sitting idle.

In any case, by opening up the new terminal many jobs will be created and many people who live in Queens will be hired. JetBlue will need more customer service agents, flight attendants, pilots, technicians, etc. The terminal will need construction people, contractors, architects, managers, designers, buyers...

This is definitely a good thing for the economy.

JetBluefan1