ahtohob346
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 8:32 pm

First of all: I am relatively new in this forum and in my humble opinion both Boeing and Airbus have plenty of good planes and 'market-for-selling-aircraft'...

The thing is: Why are there Airlines with "All-Boeing" and/or "All-Airbus" fleet instead of having a reasonable mixture of both?

Secondly: Which Airlines are All-Boeing (e.g CO) and All-Airbus (e.g. IB -shortly-)..
Season greetings to all!!!


MAT!
 
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ZSOFN
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:18 pm

Economics.

If you fly with one type, or at least one manufacturer, then costs are reduced. Pilot training costs are lower, particularly when it comes to Airbus fleets. Commonality is the name of the game - if you can have one maintenance base with people trained to work on one type of aircraft, rather than hiring extra engineers and technicians who have training only on a certain other type, costs are going to be lower.

All of this is generally known as "fleet rationalisation".
 
RICARDOAB
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:28 pm

There are so many airlines that are all Airbus and all Boeing.

In a number of cases the reason that some airlines are all Airbus and all Boeing is for political reasons. For example Spain is a partner in EADS, the organisation that owns 80% of Airbus and so it would be Politically correct that Iberia buy Airbus aircraft.
 
TheSorcerer
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:39 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 1):
If you fly with one type

But then if this A/C type should be grounded by the FAA (in USA) or the CAA (UK) then the airline has a huge problem.
But I agree with you having a 1 A/C type (or common type rated A/C) fleet outweighs the risk of something like what I mentioned above happening.
Thanks
Dominic
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ZSOFN
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:43 pm

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 3):
But then if this A/C type should be grounded by the FAA (in USA) or the CAA (UK) then the airline has a huge problem.
But I agree with you having a 1 A/C type (or common type rated A/C) fleet outweighs the risk of something like what I mentioned above happening.

Indeed - and we're yet to see a major aircraft type to be grounded. Sure there was Concorde but that wasn't really major.

One example in which a mixed fleet works is BA. As the potential savings of operating both longhaul and shorthaul aircraft types from the same manufacturer are minimal, so it made sense at the time for BA to purchase a large fleet of Airbus narrowbodies whilst maintaining the cost savings of operating an all-Boeing longhaul fleet.
 
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American 767
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:47 pm

It depends on each airline's needs in terms of aircraft capacity on certain routes, fleet commonality, fleet planning and more particularly it depends on the relationship the airline has with the manufacturer.

These airlines are all Boeing:
Southwest
Ryannair
Delta
American wants to go to an all Boeing fleet
Continental, which you mention
Alaska
Virgin Express
Cargolux
El Al
Lauda Air

These airlines are all Airbus:
Frontier
Tap
JetBlue, until the first E-jet arrived
Iberia, which you mention, has an almost all Airbus fleet, with the exception of the 757
Germanwings
Air Tahiti

Season greetings to you too!

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium
Ben Soriano
 
CrazyHorse
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:00 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
Lauda Air

Lauda is owned by OS and now a A320 is flying with the old Lauda colors.

Manuel
 
TheSorcerer
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:00 pm

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 4):
and we're yet to see a major aircraft type to be grounded

After the BMI 734 crash (sorry can't remember the date), all 734s with CFM engines were grounded AFAIK.

Does anyone know another airline that operates on the principle of BA (operating one manufacturer on shorthaul and another on longhaul?
Thanks
Dominic
ALITALIA,All Landings In Torino, All Luggage In Athens ;)
 
spectre242
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:03 pm

I know one of Airbus' big marketing tools is that all their flight decks are essentially the same (A320 onwards at least), allowing cheaper pilot training from one type to another, (and possibly maintenance?) etc, but do Boeing make any similar claims? I think the 757 and 767 are very similar flight deck wise, but what about the 737NG, 744/8, 777 and 787? If not, then does an all-Airbus fleet make more sense than an all-Boeing fleet (in this context) if the main purpose of having an all A or B fleet is to reduce costs?
 
Cruiser
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:04 pm

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 7):
Does anyone know another airline that operates on the principle of BA (operating one manufacturer on shorthaul and another on longhaul?

AC will be in a few short years. They have the A320 series for shorthaul, and then the Boeings will make up their longhaul fleet. They also have the E170/E190 for short, short haul on thin routes. There are/will be at least 60 Boeings, 100 Airbus's, and 60 Embraers. This will simplify their fleet immensely.

James
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grimey
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:19 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
These airlines are all Airbus:

You forgot EI, they don't have any Boeings anymore but then again rumor has it that EI are looking at the B787, does anyone know if EI got any kind of discount with Airbus? I know FR got a big discount on a few B737's because they stayed as a Boeing customer and they ordered 70 of them (I'm not 100% sure on that figure). I remember VS were looking for a discount off Boeing for a few B747's a while back but Boeing said no to them because they had already bought a good few A340's, correct me if I'm wrong on that one. I also think there is a political situation there, no US airline operates the A340 and AF is the airline with the biggest Airbus fleet.

Grimey
 
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ZSOFN
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 10:35 pm

Quoting Grimey (Reply 10):
I also think there is a political situation there, no US airline operates the A340 and AF is the airline with the biggest Airbus fleet.

In the past, in the early days of Airbus, this could be said to be true. However Airbuses are becoming a very common site in the U.S., particularly the A320 series. But for a start both US and NW operate A330s, NW have ordered the A350 too, even though they were the launch customer for the 744 back at the end of the 80s.
 
A319XFW
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sat Dec 03, 2005 11:04 pm

There is HLX which is all Boeing.
And LTU is all Airbus. (http://www.ltu.de/takeltu/index.html?SiteID=4020000&LangID=1)
 
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American 767
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:03 am

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 7):

After the BMI 734 crash (sorry can't remember the date)

That was back in December 1988 when the 737-400 was all new.

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 7):

Does anyone know another airline that operates on the principle of BA (operating one manufacturer on shorthaul and another on longhaul

BA still has a few 757's and 737-400's left. However you may not be wrong because BA mainline will soon get rid of the 757's(most of them went to DHL already) and the 737-400's. Comair, a BA subsidiary, will continue to fly the 737 for a while.

Another one I can think of is SN Brussels: Mostly Avro RJ's on short haul flights out of BRU to most European cities and three A330's on long hauls to Africa, and the three A319's they have are flown on Europe's longest nonstops(e.g. BRU-TLV and BRU-Moscow).

Another one is Finnair: they no longer have DC-9/MD-80's, they have now E-jets on short hauls, A319/A320 on medium hauls within Europe and only MD-11's on long hauls. Finnair seems to be happy with the MD-11.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium

[Edited 2005-12-03 20:04:50]

[Edited 2005-12-03 20:06:33]

[Edited 2005-12-03 20:07:10]
Ben Soriano
 
A319XFW
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All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:11 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 13):
Another one is Finnair

Finnair also still have 757's, MD-82/83's and ATR's according to their site.....
And also A321's.

And you're right, they are so happy with their MD-11's, they've added another one.

[Edited 2005-12-03 20:12:14]
 
andaman
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RE: All-Boeibg / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 13):


Another one is Finnair: they no longer have DC-9/MD-80's, they have now E-jets on short hauls, A319/A320 on medium hauls within Europe and only MD-11's on long hauls. Finnair seems to be happy with the MD-11.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium

AY use also A321 on medium hauls and have (7?) B757s for charter traffic.
MD-11 has been just the right plane for AY, the right size and enough cargo capasity - which plays a big role. But sooner or later MD-11 has to be replaced.
Chinese cookie in SFO: "You're doomed to a life of forever travelling abroad and to be able to afford it!"
 
rossbaku
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:07 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 5):
JetBlue

I thought JetBlue also had A320's on the go....don't you remember the perpendicular gear emergency landing?

RossBaku  Silly
 
jetset7e7
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:08 am

From the UK and Ireland Airlines its:

Airbus:
Aer Lingus
BMED (British Mediterranean Airways) (BA Franchise operator)
Eirjet
GB Airways (BA Franchise operator)
MyTravel are almost all Airbus except one 757 and one 767.

Boeing:
Air Atlanta Europe
Air Scotland
Astraeus
bmibaby
DHL Air
European Aviation Air Charter
Excel Airways
FlyGlobespan
FlyJet
Jet2.com
Ryanair
Thomsonfly (Britannia) (Charter and Lowcost)

Mark
Retrofitted Blended Winglets - The Future Is On The Wing
 
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NZPM
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:44 am

Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 7):
Does anyone know another airline that operates on the principle of BA (operating one manufacturer on shorthaul and another on longhaul?

NZ is moving in this direction.
 
Cactus739
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:56 am

Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 11):
NW have ordered the A350 too

Does anyone at NW know about that?  spin 

I'm assuming you meant US.
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777ER
Crew
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting NZPM (Reply 18):
Quoting TheSorcerer (Reply 7):
Does anyone know another airline that operates on the principle of BA (operating one manufacturer on shorthaul and another on longhaul?

NZ is moving in this direction.

NZ are going Boeing for long-haul (B767s, B777s, B787s, maybe B744ADVs early B744s will be replaced by B773ERs from 2010 onwards)

Airbus for shorthaul (A320 family)
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EddieDude
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 6:59 am

Once MX replaces its 752's and its sole 763ER, it will become an all-Airbus operator. By the same token, AM is moving to an all-Boeing fleet; some MD-87's and -88's will remain with the fleet but in the long run they will be replaced with 73W's and 738's.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
gigneil
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 7:06 am

Quoting RICARDOAB (Reply 2):
There are so many airlines that are all Airbus and all Boeing.

Relative to the number of airlines out there, there's not actually that many.

The whole Boeing/MD merger makes more than there were, but for the purposes of this conversation I don't think that's valid.

Quoting Spectre242 (Reply 8):
I know one of Airbus' big marketing tools is that all their flight decks are essentially the same (A320 onwards at least)

Its not just the flight deck looking the same... due to their particular implementation of FBW, flying each plane whether it is an A318 or an A380 feels practically the same to the pilot. The responsiveness is similar and the handling characteristics are similar.

N
 
WAH64D
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:43 am

Quoting RICARDOAB (Reply 2):
In a number of cases the reason that some airlines are all Airbus and all Boeing is for political reasons. For example Spain is a partner in EADS, the organisation that owns 80% of Airbus and so it would be Politically correct that Iberia buy Airbus aircraft.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. The UK has a substantial interest in Airbus but BA's longhaul fleet is all Boeing, with a mixed shorthaul fleet. Air France has a mix of both as does Lufthansa.

In the modern world economy, I think airlines have to go with whatever is the most economical aircraft for the job required, politics and manufacturer should have no bearing on fleet make-up.
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gigneil
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:45 am

Quoting WAH64D (Reply 23):
In the modern world economy, I think airlines have to go with whatever is the most economical aircraft for the job required, politics and manufacturer should have no bearing on fleet make-up.

Unfortunately, that just doesn't happen. The world is not that mature a place.

N
 
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ZSOFN
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:02 am

Quoting Cactus739 (Reply 19):
Quoting ZSOFN (Reply 11):
NW have ordered the A350 too

Does anyone at NW know about that? spin

I'm assuming you meant US.

Oops!
 
asgeirs
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:15 am

Quoting Ahtohob346 (Thread starter):
Secondly: Which Airlines are All-Boeing (e.g CO) and All-Airbus (e.g. IB -shortly-)..

Icelandair along with it's subsidiary Loftleidir Icelandic has an all Boeing fleet. In the past they used to operate some DC-8's and DC-10's but around 1990 they got new 737-400's and 757-200's and have since then only operated Boeing aircrafts. The 737-400's were phased out around the turn of the century. In 2004 they added some 767-200 which they have 3 of now. The 757 fleet consists of around 10-15 aircrafts, there of one 757-300.
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thepilot
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:02 pm

Although it is not a very large airline, Tiger Airways in Singapore operates an all-Airbus fleet. They use the A320.
From YVR
 
thepilot
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:15 am

Oh, and how could I have forgotten C6 and WS. Both excellent Canadian airlines.
From YVR
 
dj738
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:34 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 20):
Airbus for shorthaul (A320 family)

Nah, NZ aren't like BA - You forget their 733s!! They're not going anywhere in a hurry - will be around for YEARS yet...
 
Amy
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:38 pm

Quoting Jetset7E7 (Reply 17):
Boeing:
DHL Air

DHL? As in the cargo airline? The one with the A300s?
A340-300 - slow, but awesome!
 
bmacleod
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:05 am

Lufthansa looks like they want to go all-Airbus. The A380s and A346s combined will shut out any room for the 744s. Likewise I don't think they'll want to keep their 737s around much longer either...

[Edited 2005-12-05 18:12:39]
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FlySSC
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:47 am

MEA - Middle East Airline/Air Liban has an all Airbus fleet (A321 + A332)

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Royal Jordanian also (A320/A321/A310/A340)

Star Airlines (A320 + A330)
 
ckfred
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RE: All-Boeing / All-Airbus Fleet

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:31 am

The idea of having an all-Boeing or all-Airbus fleet is like owning cars. Even though my wife has a Pontiac sport-ute, and I have an Oldsmobile sedan, there are many common parts and systems, because they are both GM vehicles.

Having a fleet of both Airbus and Boeing (or for an airline, like AA, that also has McDonnell Douglass), is like having a GM car, a Ford car, and a Volkswagen car in the garage.