SHUPirate1
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More Difficult In Snow: Take-off Or Land?

Sun Dec 04, 2005 3:28 pm

Pretty self-explanatory...I just wasn't sure.
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jorge1812
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RE: More Difficult In Snow: Take-off Or Land?

Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:24 pm

I'm not a pilot but I think landing on a wet and slippery runway is more difficult since you have to steer the plane and stop it right before the end of the runway. What's more difficult for you? Braking or accelerating your car on snow?

Georg.
 
PhilSquares
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RE: More Difficult In Snow: Take-off Or Land?

Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:34 pm

Both situations present different problems. The difficulty is really the same.

In the case of taking off, you face a problem with a contaminated runway. The contamination leads to a VMCG problem which is solved by a few different methods, depending on the airline's preference. In addition, depending on the depth of snow, you might not even be able to take off. The limitations are in our performance manual but the figure of 6' power and 3' wet snow stick in my mind.

For landing, the problem is just stopping. Depending on the braking action report you're looking at some long landing runs. Our company policy, as like most companies, is if the braking action is reported as poor or worse, then you can't land.
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jorge1812
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RE: More Difficult In Snow: Take-off Or Land?

Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:48 pm

It just came to my mind. A plane crashed in Munich years ago after it was to slow for take-off because the rwy was covered with snow. Wasn't this the crash were the main part of Manchester United soccer team died?

Georg.
 
Fokker70NG
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RE: More Difficult In Snow: Take-off Or Land?

Sun Dec 04, 2005 8:54 pm

Quoting Jorge1812 (Reply 3):
It just came to my mind. A plane crashed in Munich years ago after it was to slow for take-off because the rwy was covered with snow. Wasn't this the crash were the main part of Manchester United soccer team died?

Yes it was, on the 6th of February in 1958. 8 members of the soccer team died in the crash.
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Tornado82
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RE: More Difficult In Snow: Take-off Or Land?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:58 am

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 2):
The limitations are in our performance manual but the figure of 6' power and 3' wet snow stick in my mind.

You mean inches, right? Might be a little confusing to some here. with the ' Versus " thing.
 
miguelss
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RE: More Difficult In Snow: Take-off Or Land?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:44 am

Don´t forget the AF A340 incident this August in Canada.

It was mainly because of bad weather, slippery runway and touchdown half-way.
 
tguman
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RE: More Difficult In Snow: Take-off Or Land?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:22 am

the AF 340 also most likely experience wind shear. It was also reported that the pilot came in fast. and high (thus the landing halfway down the runway)

Toronto, and most airport in Canada for that matter, do not have wind shear detectors on the field, so that is something that really should be addressed by Transport Canada.

I have done touch and goes on the grass runway at Harv's in Winter. The runway is predominantly packed snow, and the planes are light, so it was just fun to be in the circuit and seeing knowing exactly where the plane in front of you touched down and when. It was alot of fun. The approach is a little crazy to.

TGUman
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