sabenapilot
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China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:28 am

The order is likely to be confirmed early next week during a visit to France by Chinese premier Wen Jiabao. China likes to announce orders for foreign goods during high-level political visits and Wen is due to make an official visit to France between 4 December and 7 December...

http://www.flightinternational.com/A...+for+big+A320+order+next+week.html
 
ikramerica
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:31 am

this has been covered. likely a 70+80 order like the b one.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
astuteman
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:41 am

The Sunday Times today carried a one-liner on this, but also suggested that it would be related to an even bigger (i.e. MASSIVE) helicopter order (presumably from EADS Eurocopter).
Maybe not relevant, per se, but in the context of Airbus currently having to carry EADS defence interests, a major helicopter order certainly helps Airbus's parent to be more secure.
A
 
DeltaWings
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:48 am

Do we know what airlines will place the orders? I doubt it, that its the same airlines that ordered the 70 737s.
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PHXinterrupted
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:50 am

Quoting Astuteman (Reply 2):
The Sunday Times today carried a one-liner on this, but also suggested that it would be related to an even bigger (i.e. MASSIVE) helicopter order (presumably from EADS Eurocopter).
Maybe not relevant, per se, but in the context of Airbus currently having to carry EADS defence interests, a major helicopter order certainly helps Airbus's parent to be more secure.
A

This order has "trade deficit" written all over it. Sound familiar?
Keepin' it real.
 
vfw614
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:51 am

One important side-aspect is that it was agreed that Airbus will quadruple the components bought from China until 2010 and has offered China a 5 per cent work-share in the Airbus A350 programme.

Airbus has said that it aims to have a 50 per cent market share in China in a couple of years (currently 30 per cent).
 
Lumberton
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:51 am

I suspect there's a tie-in with this topic:

Airbus May Set Up Assembly Line in China
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
sabenapilot
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:07 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 3):
Do we know what airlines will place the orders?

No idea, but the 20 A320s for East Star Airlines (also announced this week) are certainly not included in this government order.
 
ikramerica
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:09 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 7):

is east star not a chinese government airline? never heard of it.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:17 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 8):
is East Star not a chinese government airline? never heard of it.

East Star is the first private airline of China and received approval for operation from the Civil Aviation Administration of China (CAAC) on June 10, 2005. Headquartered in Wuhan, the Capital city of Hubei Province, East Star Airlines plans to start operations in May 2006 with a network connecting more than 10 major Chinese cities, including Shenzhen, Nanjing, Xi’an, Haikou, and Hangzhou.
 
FCKC
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:20 am

The deal would be signed tomorrow with the Chinese PM and French PM.
I heard at the French TV , that the order will be for more than 100 A320 family aircraft , and perhaps (only) of other Airbus products.
Also the Chinese PM was at Toulouse this afternoon (Dec 4th) to visit the A380 assembly line and to discuss about a possible A320 assembly line in China.
Then he will go to Marseille to sign an helicopter deal with Eurocopter.
China already build EC120s.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:26 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 7):
No idea, but the 20 A320s for East Star Airlines (also announced this week) are certainly not included in this government order.

Only 10 of East Star Airlines orders are direct via the airline. The other 10 have already been ordered by GECAS.

Said it with the Boeing order and I'll say it with this one too. Who saw this one coming? I never expected both manufacturers to get a combined 300 narrowbody orders from China. What a year for both of them. I just hope theere a few widebodies thrown in for good measure, like Sichuan Airlines A330s, be good to see more heavies.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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solnabo
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:28 am

Maybe the order for 70+ 737s is hot air from China plus GWB critic statement about Taiwan...

Just guessing here.

Micke//SE  wave 
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sabenapilot
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:30 am

Quoting PanAm_DC10 (Reply 11):
I just hope there a few widebodies thrown in for good measure, like Sichuan Airlines A330s, be good to see more heavies.

Does any Chinese airline currently operate wide bodies domestically (not talking about Hong Kong based airlines)???

[Edited 2005-12-04 21:36:02]
 
sabenapilot
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:35 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 12):
Maybe the order for 70+ 737s is hot air from China plus GWB critic statement about Taiwan...

It was deliberately leaked by the Chinese they reduced the number of 737s ordered in protest of GW's public interference with their internal affairs.

The general feeling was that this was just a diplomatic incident and that the remainder of the 737s would be ordered soon, but after seeing all this and especially after the offer from Airbus to set up a full narrow body assembly line in China (something the Chinese have been willing to have for years), it might prove hard for Boeing to get the Chinese to sign for those additional 737s....
 
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clickhappy
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:35 am

The first private airline of China is/was Okay Airways, flying the Boeing 737-900.
 
sabenapilot
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:40 am

Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 15):
The first private airline of China is/was Okay Airways, flying the Boeing 737-900

Okay Airlines flies domestic charter flights.
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:57 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 13):
Does any Chinese airline currently operate wide bodies domestically (not talking about Hong Kong based airlines)???

Yes, I may have to stand corrected on some but Hainan, China Southwest, Yunnan and Shanghai come to mind. China Southerns recent A330 order will mostly see them operate domestic runs too. Though you exclude HK based carriers most mainland carriers operate heavies to HK, that's almost the same as a domestic now  Wink

Regards, PanAm_DC10
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PM
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:05 am

Quoting DeltaWings (Reply 3):
Do we know what airlines will place the orders? I doubt it, that its the same airlines that ordered the 70 737s.

On the contrary. The three big Chinese airlines all operate mixed 737/A320 fleets and all three are likely to get shares of the 70 737s and ?? A320s. Last week I flew on an Air China 737-300 and a China Eastern A320. The models could as easily have been the other way around.
 
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clickhappy
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:51 am

Oh, I didn't see where you wrote that the point you were making was that East Star is the first scheduled private carrier in China. In fact here is what you wrote:

East Star is the first private airline of China...

So, I stand by my comment.
 
elvis777
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:13 am

Hello All,

Yeah, PHXinterrupted I agree with you:
"this order has "trade deficit" written all over it. Sound familiar?"

Where is Keesje and Wings?

Ok., that said. Congrats to EADS. The A319-321 is a fine series of planes.

I still believe, just as I did when Boeing won the first order, that the Chinese airlines have done their math properly and have chosen what will work for them -i.e make a profit for them.

Peace

Elvis777
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keesje
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:31 am

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 20):
Yeah, PHXinterrupted I agree with you:
"this order has "trade deficit" written all over it. Sound familiar?"

Where is Keesje and Wings?

Yeah, that was a sweet one. First I said it & the Randy groupies exploded.
A few hours later US / Chinese officials officially confirmed  rotfl 

I don´t think this has to do with a trade deficit.
If you are talking subs & co-assembly: more likely..
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vinniewinnie
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:42 am

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 20):
I still believe, just as I did when Boeing won the first order, that the Chinese airlines have done their math properly and have chosen what will work for them -i.e make a profit for them.

To be honest I reckon both B737 series and A320 series are now equivalent aircrafts in terms of profits.

Boeing and Airbus now fight on 2 fronts: Prices and politics!

In China the later is easily the deal maker or breaker....

Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 4):
This order has "trade deficit" written all over it. Sound familiar?

What about European support for lifting the arms embargo on China?
 
Carpethead
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:12 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 13):
Does any Chinese airline currently operate wide bodies domestically

CA often flies 744/A343/777/767 on domestic routes.
CZ flies 772A on trunk lines from CAN to PVG/PEK.
MU flies A346/A343 & tons of A300s on domestic routes.

MU flies more Airbus types but has taken up a few Boeing 737s of late.
CA & CZ fly basically everything that Airbus & Boeing (MDs included) has made.
 
Pyrex
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:31 am

Quoting PHXinterrupted (Reply 4):
This order has "trade deficit" written all over it. Sound familiar?

If you are talking about the A320s, it is just like everything China or Japan order. If you are talking about the helicopters, the reason is merely that Europe is willing to sell them to China and the US isn't (not that Eurocopters are bad in any way).
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
CPH757
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:37 am

And HU operates some domestic 767 as well.

Does MU operate the 343 and 346 on domestic flights? I have only seen them on HKG-PVG.

CZ also send domestic 330s out of CAN, and actually a 77B.
Last flight: SAW-CPH on H9 on 02/11/09 - Next Flights: 23/12/09 CPH-AAL on QI, 30/12/09 CPH-LHR on SK, 19/01/10 CPH-CDG-
 
N79969
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:37 am

Good, solid (not entirely unexpected) win for Airbus. Airbus has done a very good job with customer service in China and deserves credit for their efforts.



Quoting Solnabo (Reply 12):
Maybe the order for 70+ 737s is hot air from China plus GWB critic statement about Taiwan...

Losing an order for 70+ B737s is a small and worthwhile price to pay to protect democratic Taiwan.
 
MarshalN
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:38 am

Well, the trade deficit argument is rather dumb, whether applied to A or B. I mean, these are really the only two viable manufacturers for mainline airliners, unless China wants to buy Russian. Since that's not really an option -- they have to choose something. Splitting the order is just a way to keep everyone happy, and god knows they can take it all and more.

So... I wouldn't say this is directly linked to trade deficit in any way, not directly anyway. It's not like they have a choice. Either way it'll be helping Europe/US's trade deficits  Smile
 
Lumberton
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:43 am

Quoting N79969 (Reply 26):
Losing an order for 70+ B737s is a small and worthwhile price to pay to protect democratic Taiwan.

Everything I read says that the rumored "80" more 737's is still being "negotiated" and not lost. The Chinese very much need these aircraft. They can't produce the quality products that Airbus and Boeing offer (yet!). So they will derive maximum political advantage from their purchases.
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
elvis777
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:43 am

Hi Keesje,

I'll try again.

Congrats to EADS. Good show. You won this one. We'll (Boeing) try harder next time.

Although there are probably multiple reasons for EADS winning this order (Politics, trade deficits, etc..) I believe that you (EADS) won this order based on merit (Price, performance, financing, etc..).

I hope next time we (Boeing) win one in China (Israel,???....) no one will cast aspersions on the winning bid.

Peace

Elvis777
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glideslope
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:57 am

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 29):
Although there are probably multiple reasons for EADS winning this order (Politics, trade deficits, etc..) I believe that you (EADS) won this order based on merit (Price, performance, financing, etc..).

Elvis, you have left the building....  Smile
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
elvis777
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:05 am

Hello Glideslope!

I'm flying brother!
 Smile

Peace

Elvis777
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glideslope
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:11 am

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 28):
writhing I read says that the rumored "80" more 737's is still being "negotiated" and not lost. The Chinese very much need these aircraft. They can't produce the quality products that Airbus and Boeing offer (yet!). So they will derive maximum political advantage from their purchases

Exactly. It's the old put George in the corner for a few months, then make an announcement for the sale at a "new price."

In all honesty W has been doing a fairly good job keeping his China Bashing behind closed doors, in smoke filled rooms. It's the only location one can make progress with China in the first place.

Of course you never know. There are still a lot of people in the White House very ticked off at Boeing for the 767 Tanker Follies. His comments may have been intended as a reminder of his power. But not likely.  Smile

While another 70 NG's would be nice, I'd wager there are more important orders to land, and 60/40 here is ok.

I am curious however what exactly these new assembly lines in China mean for the EU based Airbus employee?

The aggressive unions of the EU must be watching this closely? It will be nice to see something take away jobs that they can't tie America to.  Smile
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
Lumberton
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:16 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 32):
I am curious however what exactly these new assembly lines in China mean for the EU based Airbus employee?

The aggressive unions of the EU must be watching this closely? It will be nice to see something take away jobs that they can't tie America to. Smile

Glideslope, please see link in Reply #6 to the thread where this topic is discussed. Strangely, there is little comment with respect to the outsourcing of EU jobs. One article I read today, and linked in the other thread, talks about complete outsourcing of the A320 wings to China in 7 years! This is one of those subjects that is very sensitive and I suspect very uncomfortable for some of our fellow a.netters.

[Edited 2005-12-05 02:20:49]
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
carnoc
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 16):
Quoting Clickhappy (Reply 15):
The first private airline of China is/was Okay Airways, flying the Boeing 737-900

Okay Airlines flies domestic charter flights.

Sabenapilot,

Clickhappy is correct, Okay Airways is certainly the first private airline on Mainland China. Also, it operates scheduled passenger flights as well as charter flights.

Cheers.
 
elvis777
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:23 am

Hello All,

Have any one of you read the book "airframe' by M. Crichton? Not Booker prize quality and a bit paranoic but nice read for those of us interested in Aviation. The author tells a story about a big American Co. that due to mismanagement , some corporate greed and international shenanigans is willing to give away the keys to the kingdom. In other words they are going to let an Asian country build the wings for the next big Jet. Anyways, lots of neat stuff on wing design and labor, as well as foreign relations vis a vis the airline manufacturing bussiness.
Anyways back on topic, I think that the keys to the kingdom used to be the airfoil and teh technology to design it. It is still very much important but I do not believe that this will solely empower anyone having this knowledge with the ability to manufacture a modern passenger airliner. It is much more complicated now. Perhaps I am being naive. That said, it surely strikes at the labor-management relationship. Jobs that would normally go to the original Wing mannufacturer will be lost. This is a touchy subject. Can I speculate that this is a threat more to the British than to EADS. The Brits have been threatned with the loss of this work on a previous occassion, if they did not get aboard the subsidies bandwagon.
It would be interesting to hear from the Welsh, who might be directly affected by this.

Peace

Elvis777
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boeingfever777
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:29 am

guess.... airbus is having to buy there own jets!

http://today.reuters.com/business/ne..._0_BUSINESSPRO-FRANCE-CHINA-DC.XML

Tyical airbus politics... sounds like a "trade deficit" and them buying there way into the far east.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
abba
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 11:36 am

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 13):

Does any Chinese airline currently operate wide bodies domestically (not talking about Hong Kong based airlines)???

I've been on a Air China 747-400 from Beijing to Shenzhen.

ABBA
 
milan320
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:07 pm

Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 36):
Tyical airbus politics... sounds like a "trade deficit" and them buying there way into the far east.

I take it American companies never do such things then, right?
-Milan320
I accept bribes ... :-)
 
whitehatter
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:40 pm

Amazing how the cheerleaders are trying to drag all kinds of nonsense into this, like Taiwan and outsourcing.

Like they believe building aircraft parts in Asia is wrong (oh whoops...forgot the 787 wings are Japanese....) and constructing aircraft in China is sinful (oh whoops...forgot that McDonnell Douglas tried that as well)

Every time Airbus gets an order it is "political" or "trade deficit" (oh whoops again...all those 737s and 787s the Chinese have ordered) but it's champagne out time if Boeing sell a rivet.

Can we expect to see the USA cancel all of China's outstanding Boeing puchases thanks to this new-found air of self-righteousness? And where has anyone said ALL A320 work will be transferred to China? Or could it just be a subcontract idea to take pressure off Broughton and the wing plant there?

Plenty of raw hypocrisy as usual with a side of cheerleading. The Boeing fanboy's diet of choice in here these days. Now if that had been another order for the 737 no doubt the cheers would be heard round the globe from people who couldn't even locate Taiwan on a map without a sheet of directions.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Glareskin
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:20 pm

If true this means Airbus is closing up on Boeing with the orders this year. Anyone know the numbers for this moment? Of course the QF order will influence the final numbers too.
There's still a long way to go before all the alliances deserve a star...
 
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PanAm_DC10
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:49 pm

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 39):
Like they believe building aircraft parts in Asia is wrong (oh whoops...forgot the 787 wings are Japanese....) and constructing aircraft in China is sinful (oh whoops...forgot that McDonnell Douglas tried that as well)

IIRC Boeing did too in the 1970's with a 707 variant, it's been going on for some time as you correctly point out with MDD too, so nothing new.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 39):
Every time Airbus gets an order it is "political" or "trade deficit" (oh whoops again...all those 737s and 787s the Chinese have ordered) but it's champagne out time if Boeing sell a rivet.

One of the first responses to Boeing's order from China was as follows;

Quoting Keesje (Reply 21):
"this order has "trade deficit" written all over it

Sh*t flows both ways from the cheerleaders on both sides

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 39):
And where has anyone said ALL A320 work will be transferred to China?

For your interest, right here;

By Andrea Rothman
Dec. 4 (Bloomberg) -- Airbus SAS, the world's largest commercial aircraft maker, said it may open a factory in China for assembling its single-aisle, A320 series of planes as part of a plan to expand in the fastest growing aviation market.
Airbus didn't provide specifics on when an assembly line might be set up, or what conditions must be met for an agreement to be concluded. Airbus and Chinese officials expect to make a decision after discussing options over the next six months, said Kracht.


I'll re-iterate my original point. Said it with the Boeing order, now I'll say it again. No-one expected orders of such substance for either manufacturer from China this year and it's pleasing to see them. It's be nice to see a few more heavies and Sabenapilot actually got some good discussion going with his question about widebody domestic operations in China. Anyway, let's hope we see another boost for the A318 amongst all these orders.

Regards, PanAm_DC10
Ask the impossible to achieve the best possible
 
elvis777
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:14 pm

Hello whitehatter,

The initial punch, if there is such a thing b/c both sides do it- Ok the initial shot on the china orders came from your side of the fence- Pan Am DC10 mentioned it
Quoting Keesje (Reply 21):
"this order has "trade deficit" written all over it

This post was put up on the Boeing wins 70 orders from china. Not hard to find.

It was then followed by one from Wings, basically saying the same thing.
So the hypocrosiy is coming from where?

On another point. I dare say I can find Taiwan on a map. Probably, the majority of the A.net community can find Taiwan on a map. I believe that you are a bit misinformed on this issue. Maybe, just maybe you could not find Taiwan on a map without a bit of help, until recently, and now that you can you are being prejudicial and think that everyone is like you were and are looking down your nose on the rest of us poor A.netters (incorrectly, from my point of view). Maybe?

Anyways, I do have a question for you. You would not happen to be from Wales would you ? If so I really would like to hear your comments with regards to the possibility of EADS wings no longer being built in the land of the dragon. Ok., not in that land of the dragon but in another land that has a different dragon. Seeing how the British economy is losing manufacturing jobs to other countries where the wages are lower and becoming more of a service economy. What are your thoughts on this?

Also, I do realize that it is a bit difficult and frustrating dealing with people that need help when using maps but there is no need to get so upset. Perhaps a spot of tea might calm you down a bit. Or maybe some sothing music. If you are into vocalists, may I recommend Patricia Kass. She sings in French, mostly, but she is really German. Very good indeed (and easy on the eyes as well!).

Peace
(Especially for you!)

Elvis777
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N79969
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:19 pm

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 43):
On another point. I dare say I can find Taiwan on a map. Probably, the majority of the A.net community can find Taiwan on a map.

...As did a US Navy in 1996 when they sent in an aircraft carrier after the Chinese military starting firing missles into the Taiwan Strait.
 
abba
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:35 pm

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 40):
So are you telling us that Europeans are willing to overlook all of China's atrocious human rights violations in the name of business and selling a bunch of airplanes? I always thought Europeans viewed themselves as morally superior to Americans? What gives then? All mighty Euro! Ah huh... capitalism rules at the end of the day just as we Americans have been saying and getting lip service from the Europeans. Ha! Ha!

I am no expert in the subject of moral superiority. However, I do believe that a number of the West's best friends in the rest of the world (equally cherished by both the US and the EU) on many accounts have human rights issues equal to and even exceeding those in China. Looking specifically at the question of religious freedom - this is for most people much better in China than in Malaysia.

Abba
 
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AirPacific747
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:31 pm

I read that it is "only" 100 Airbus aircraft
 
n1786b
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RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:22 pm

Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 5):
One important side-aspect is that it was agreed that Airbus will quadruple the components bought from China

Hmmm..... OK moving up to $120 million by 2010. And just how much business does Boeing do with Chinese suppliers? Peanuts compared to some of Boeings contracts.

BEIJING, June 2, 2005 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] today announced agreements with Chinese suppliers worth an estimated US$600 million for production of commercial airplane parts and components, including the first firm contract with such suppliers to build parts for the all-new Boeing 787 Dreamliner.

So when credit for this order (or any other order for Airplane) is given to Airbus expanding their annual outsourcing TO $120 million in 4 years is stretching the truth a but. Did it help? Of course it did. Did it tip the scales? I seriously doubt it - it has been shown to be one of the prices you pay to sell planes to China.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 14):
It was deliberately leaked by the Chinese they reduced the number of 737s ordered in protest of GW's public interference with their internal affairs.

Please post a source.

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 14):
The general feeling was that this was just a diplomatic incident and that the remainder of the 737s would be ordered soon, but after seeing all this and especially after the offer from Airbus to set up a full narrow body assembly line in China (something the Chinese have been willing to have for years), it might prove hard for Boeing to get the Chinese to sign for those additional 737s....

Also, please post a source for your claim (or wishful thinking) that the Airbus 100+ A32X order somehow reduces or replaces the 80 supplemental 737s order.

Quoting N79969 (Reply 26):
Losing an order for 70+ B737s is a small and worthwhile price to pay to protect democratic Taiwan.

Well, from what I understand, no deal has been "lost"

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 32):
I am curious however what exactly these new assembly lines in China mean for the EU based Airbus employee?

The aggressive unions of the EU must be watching this closely? It will be nice to see something take away jobs that they can't tie America to.

LOL - well up until just a while ago (before the wing box deal) from what I was told, the wing deals were about additional capacity - not replacing the wing mfg in the UK. Now with the box deal and the 6 month study about sending an entire assembly line to China, it has evolved into something much bigger AND more dangerous to EU jobs.

IMO, the French are getting exactly what they deserve here - The French unions have rejected almost any and every attempt to rationalize the A320 production sites (in essence, transferring NB production to Germany). So AB does a fast one and is going to study the transfer of an assemby line.

What will the unions think? Well, I guess it depends on what happens. If they keep A32X production the same and keep the workers busy - and allow the Chinese to manufacture their own, then they may be winners. They guarantee their jobs (what they really care about of course) and as long as places like St. Nazaire and Meaulte are kept open AND become suppliers to China, it may be a risk they are willing to take. With the workshare deals soooo ingraned in the Airbus mentality, anything that rocks the boat is very dangerous to do. But that was before when it was all state owned industries..... right?

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 39):
Amazing how the cheerleaders are trying to drag all kinds of nonsense into this, like Taiwan and outsourcing.

Taiwan was never mentioned, however the Chinese and French brought up the explicit link between this 6 month study and the A32x order.

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 39):
Every time Airbus gets an order it is "political" or "trade deficit" (oh whoops again...all those 737s and 787s the Chinese have ordered) but it's champagne out time if Boeing sell a rivet.

Check the other posts, it was an Airbus fan that started with the "trade deficit writen all over it"

Quoting WhiteHatter (Reply 39):
Plenty of raw hypocrisy as usual with a side of cheerleading. The Boeing fanboy's diet of choice in here these days. Now if that had been another order for the 737 no doubt the cheers would be heard round the globe from people who couldn't even locate Taiwan on a map without a sheet of directions.

That kind of asinine comment is uncalled for. I'll tell you what, my wife used to work at a vocational school in Amiens, France - and these kids couldn't even locate Paris, Lyon, and Nice on a Map of France.

- n1786b
 
BestWestern
Posts: 6998
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:28 pm

Quoting Sabenapilot (Reply 13):
Does any Chinese airline currently operate wide bodies domestically (not talking about Hong Kong based airlines)???

Ive flown AirChina domestic on an A340

Quoting Elvis777 (Reply 20):
I still believe, just as I did when Boeing won the first order, that the Chinese airlines have done their math properly and have chosen what will work for them -i.e make a profit for them.

I disagree. All Chinese and Indian government owned airline orders are pure politics.
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
A319XFW
Posts: 1519
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:41 am

RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:01 pm

Quoting N1786b (Reply 48):

I should hope (and I guess so) the unions were informed of such big news before it was made public. After all this probably means that a lot of people from the FAL's in TLS and XFW will have to train their Chinese counterparts (a big job in itself considering the language barrier etc).

As you rightly say the wingset deal was to account for additional capacity.
I guess that this would be the same for the aircraft. The A320 wing technology is now over 20 years old and the mention was to possibly move all that over to China. No mention of moving any new products there.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4044
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: China To Order 150 A320

Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:31 pm

Quoting Schipholjfk (Reply 40):
So are you telling us that Europeans are willing to overlook all of China's atrocious human rights violations in the name of business and selling a bunch of airplanes?

Isn't that exactly what the U.S. does?
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