USADreamliner
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Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:15 am

Any idea when PA introduced the A 313?



USADreamliner
 
FlagshipAZ
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:23 am

Try this link for all of Pan Am's aircraft info. Enjoy & regards.
http://www.geocities.com/~aeromoe/fleets/pa.html
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
 
Magyarorszag
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:33 am

Quoting USADreamliner (Thread starter):
Any idea when PA introduced the A 313?

Here are the details of their whole fleet of the type. All received brand new!


A310-324 N811PA 439 17/07/1987 31/10/1991 "Clipper Constitution"
A310-324 N812PA 442 17/06/1987 31/10/1991 "Clipper Freedom"
A310-324 N813PA 449 19/07/1987 31/10/1991 "Clipper Great Republic"
A310-324 N814PA 450 14/08/1987 31/10/1991 "Clipper Liberty Bell"
A310-324 N815PA 451 16/04/1988 31/10/1991 "Clipper Mayflower"
A310-324 N816PA 452 30/09/1987 31/10/1991 "Clipper Meteor"
A310-324 N817PA 453 15/10/1987 31/10/1991 "Clipper Midnight Sun"
A310-324 N818PA 455 28/04/1988 31/10/1991 "Clipper Morning Star"
A310-324 N819PA 456 28/05/1988 31/10/1991 "Clipper Nothern Light"
A310-324 N820PA 457 22/06/1988 31/10/1991 "Clipper Plymouth Rock"
A310-324 N821PA 458 21/06/1988 31/10/1991 "Clipper Queen of the Skies"
A310-324 N822PA 467 30/06/1988 31/10/1991 "Clipper Victory"
A310-324 N823PA 539 08/06/1990 30/10/1991 "Clipper Golden Light"
A310-324 N824PA 542 26/06/1990 30/10/1991 "Clipper Golden Rule"

By the way, it's been 14 years today since Pan Am went bust!

Greetings.

[Edited 2005-12-04 22:46:12]
 
dutchjet
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:15 am

By the way, Pan Am also had a fleet of seven A310-200s - all of the A312s were acquired via Airbus and were second hand aircraft. The A312s were used throughout PanAm's route system and were even assigned to some of the "shorter" transatlantic routes such as JFK-BRU and JFK-AMS which was really pushing the limits of the shorter range A312. All of PanAm's A312s and A313s went to Delta as part of the deal whereby DL took over PanAm's tranatlantic operations.

Also, dont forget that PanAm also had a fleet of A300B4s (also acquired on a second hand basis) that flew caribbean and shorter latin american routes out of both JFK and MIA.
 
toltommy
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:38 am

The PA 310's were comfortable aircraft to ride in, much better than the DL 767-300ER, IMO. Only thing bad was that they obviously had not been well cared for at the end. By the time they came to DL, the wear had taken their toll in the cabins. DL replaced the planes with new 310's, they were a marked improvement.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:56 am

I flew on an A310-222 from DTW to LHR in April 1988. It was N803PA "Clipper Munich."

Mark
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
USADreamliner
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:31 am

Thanks guys for all the info.
My question was because in 1987 (July 5th) I travel from MIA to JFK on a PA 310.
And I always had the doubt of the model, if it was a 200 or 300.
I guess it was a 200! Cool, awesome.


USADreamliner
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 4):
By the time they came to DL, the wear had taken their toll in the cabins. DL replaced the planes with new 310's, they were a marked improvement.

I was not aware that DL replaced the PN A310's with new A310's. Does anybody know when DL retired their A310's?

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 5):
I flew on an A310-222 from DTW to LHR in April 1988. It was N803PA "Clipper Munich."

When DL operated this route after PN they were using L1011's, at least in the early and mid-1990's. DTW-LGW instead of LHR.
 
panam92
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:08 am

I remember a Pan Am A310 coming from Hamburg had to make a fuel stop at Long Islands MacArthur Airport.
 
gigneil
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:21 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 7):
I was not aware that DL replaced the PN A310's with new A310's. Does anybody know when DL retired their A310's?

DL replaced the -200s with new build -300s.

N
 
vegasplanes
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:51 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9):
Gigneil

Ah so, thanks for the info.
 
rdynyc
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:19 pm

I flew as a flight attendant working the 310 out of LHR. I remember we had several that were suppose to go to Kuwait Airways. They had the Kuwait Airways seat upholstery in coach. I liked the a/c. Take-off was fun sitting in the swivel jumpseat at door 2. That baby shot off like a rocket!
 
JJMNGR
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:16 pm

PANAM also flew A313 on the route MIA/REC/GRU/EZE.
I remember the A313 on GRU joining the 02 B742 and it was a nice view.
 
Magyarorszag
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:06 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 9):
DL replaced the -200s with new build -300s.

Here is DL A310 fleet, it doesn't seem they replaced the A312 with newer A313. They were just additionnal fleet member in my opinion.

A310-222 N801PA 288 01/11/1991 10/1993 Cvtd from A310-221.
A310-222 N802PA 333 01/11/1991 16/04/1995 Cvtd from A310-221.
A310-222 N805PA 339 01/11/1991 06/02/1995
A310-222 N806PA 342 01/11/1991 04/04/1995
A310-222 N803PA 343 01/11/1991 24/04/1995 Cvtd from A310-221.
A310-222 N804PA 345 01/11/1991 09/1993 Cvtd from A310-221.
A310-222 N807PA 346 01/11/1991 17/04/1995
A310-324 N811PA 439 01/11/1991 01/03/1994
A310-324 N812PA 442 01/11/1991 01/03/1994
A310-324 N813PA 449 01/11/1991 01/03/1994
A310-324 N814PA 450 01/11/1991 12/03/1994
A310-324 N815PA 451 01/11/1991 10/1996
A310-324 N816PA 452 01/11/1991 19/03/1994
A310-324 N817PA 453 01/11/1991 01/03/1994
A310-324 N818PA 455 01/11/1991 19/03/1994
A310-324 N819PA 456 01/11/1991 01/03/1994
A310-324 N820PA 457 01/11/1991 01/03/1994
A310-324 N821PA 458 01/11/1991 01/03/1994
A310-324 N822PA 467 01/11/1991 14/03/1994
A310-324 N823PA 539 31/10/1991 01/08/1993
A310-324 N824PA 542 31/10/1991 31/10/1993
A310-324 N835AB 650 31/03/1993 12/12/1995 Stored at Atlanta, GA 10/1995.
A310-324 N836AB 660 30/09/1993 20/09/1995
A310-324 N837AB 674 27/07/1993 10/1995
A310-324 N838AB 676 15/09/1993 12/12/1995 Stored at Atlanta, GA 04/1995.
A310-324 N839AD 678 05/11/1993 20/09/1995
A310-324 N840AB 682 19/11/1991 20/09/1995
A310-325 N841AB 686 01/12/1993 20/09/1995
A310-325 N842AB 687 22/12/1993 20/09/1995
A310-325 N843AB 689 29/12/1993 12/12/1995

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 3):
By the way, Pan Am also had a fleet of seven A310-200s - all of the A312s were acquired via Airbus and were second hand aircraft.

Not really. They were effectively ordered by VASP (N801/802/803/804PA) and by KU (N805/806/807PA) but cancelled by those airlines. So they were white tails. The three that KU should have got were in fact delivered to Boeing and stored in Germany before delivery to Pan Am, as this manufacturer delivered three new B762ER to KU.

Cheers.

[Edited 2005-12-05 13:12:43]
 
freedom4all
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:24 am

Interesting to see PN ordered the A320, I never knew that, would have been neat to see one in there last Livery

[Edited 2005-12-05 19:25:56]
long live the 747!
 
levg79
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:51 am

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 2):
A310-324 N821PA 458 21/06/1988 31/10/1991 "Clipper Queen of the Skies"

It's ironic that PN, who was the launch customer of B747, would name one of their Airbus aircraft like that....

Quoting PanAm92 (Reply 8):
I remember a Pan Am A310 coming from Hamburg had to make a fuel stop at Long Islands MacArthur Airport.

What would be the final destination of that flight? Wouldn't it make more sense to schedule a stop at JFK, that way it opens few other possibilites for connecting flights.

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
Magyarorszag
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 15):
It's ironic that PN, who was the launch customer of B747, would name one of their Airbus aircraft like that....

Its probably because it represented the new generation, the next "Queen of the Skies", as there certainly was a B707 named as such before the B747. Remember that two of the A313 PA had on order were cancelled, and went to Ecuatoriana in 1991. As most other airlines, PA tried to have a fleet of smaller jets that would fit better its needs, since it was not anymore just Pan Am & TWA that crossed the pond from the "New World".

[Edited 2005-12-05 20:47:10]
 
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solnabo
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:45 am

Damn, can´t find the info from September 1990 w PNs 310-300 ARN-JFK. If I only could remember the Clipper name of this white n blue "piglet"! The flight was smooth as silk, good food, beer or wine for free (no kidding), was pretty drunk arriving JFK.....*burp*

Micke//SE  bigthumbsup 
Airbus SAS - Love them both
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:15 am

Was Pan Am going to retire the 747 fleet for the smaller, newer airbuses? Was that their intention?

PJ
 
breiz
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:15 am

There was a time I was flying often between Stavanger (Norway) and Nice (France). As I am an Airbus freak and I was bored by the regular routes, I once asked the travel officer to check if Berlin was within my reach, ticket mileage wise. And it was!
I therefore flew Stavanger-Kristiansand-Hamburg-Berlin-Frankfurt-Geneva-Zurich-Nice. Back and forth Berlin on the Pan Am A310! Almost empty.
I'll remember for ever the comment of the otherwise nice young lady at the check-in desk at Tempelhof: "What the hell are you doing here?"
I was riding the Pan Am A310, Lady.
 
panamair
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:18 am

Sorry guys but have to step in here and correct one small point. The late great Pan Am I used the code PA, not PN. PN was the code adopted by Pan Am III or IV or whatever when Guilford bought the name from the estate of Pan Am II.

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 15):
What would be the final destination of that flight? Wouldn't it make more sense to schedule a stop at JFK, that way it opens few other possibilites for connecting flights.

Final destination was JFK; point was that the 310 did not have the capability to reach JFK with a full payload when there were strong headwinds...

And as an FYI, PA used their A310s in the '80s and early '90s regularly on routes such as:
JFK-BRU
JFK-MUC
JFK-HAM
JFK-TXL
JFK-NCE
JFK-MXP
JFK-ARN-HEL (and JFK-HEL later also)
JFK-FBU (in '91)
JFK-AMS (in '91)
JFK-FRA (supplemental flight to the 747s)
JFK-LHR (supplemental flight to the 747s)
JFK-CDG (supplemental flight to the 747s)
JFK-BUD
JFK-VIE
JFK-WAW
JFK-ZAG (in '91)
JFK-SNN
JFK-LIS (in '91)
JFK-BCN (in '91)
JFK-ZRH (in '91)
JFK-MEX (alternating with the A300)
IAD-CDG
DTW-LHR
FRA-NBO
FRA-RUH-KHI
FRA-TXL
FRA-LHR
MUC-TXL
MIA-REC (in '91)

Domestically, they were often also used on:
JFK-SFO
JFK-LAX
JFK-MIA
IAD-LAX
 
Magyarorszag
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:01 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 18):
Was Pan Am going to retire the 747 fleet for the smaller, newer airbuses? Was that their intention?

I remember that I've read somewhere something going this way. I'll try to find it and let you know.

I was in fact searching for it, when I came across Pan Am 1989 annual report that I have. I know that with what I'm going to say I'll get a bit away from the original topic, but I read through Thomas Plaskett (Chairman & CEO) message to the shareholders and was quit astounded to read that Pan Am tried to acquire NWA Inc in the second quarter of 1989.  Wow!

All this "was a bold attempt to link two routes systems that would fit end-to-end and forge a new global competitor. We were able to mount a bid, substantially backed by outside investors, but we could not match a competing bid!", says Plaskett. Who knows what would have emerged from this attempt? Would have the new company centered around the A310 for some types of routes ?  Wink
 
panamair
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:31 am

Quoting Magyarorszag (Reply 21):
I was in fact searching for it, when I came across Pan Am 1989 annual report that I have. I know that with what I'm going to say I'll get a bit away from the original topic, but I read through Thomas Plaskett (Chairman & CEO) message to the shareholders and was quit astounded to read that Pan Am tried to acquire NWA Inc in the second quarter of 1989.

Yes, I remember that well. PA actually stood a good chance of merging with NW; their proposed bid of about $3.6billion was backed by some very credible investors and banks and the proposed network would have made a truly global US airline (NW strong in the Pacific which PA had sold to UA while PA strong in the transatlantic and Latin American markets) with a strong domestic system. Unfortunately, I think the NW folks looked at PA as a basket case and went with the Al Checchi bid instead. Who knows, if the merger had gone through, Pan Am might still be flying today....
 
F27XXX
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:02 am

For those of you incorrectly using 'PN' as the two-letter code for Pan Am, it was 'PA', as the A310s were operated by the original Pan Am and not one of the later incarnations.

Sad to think it's been 14 years already -- seems like just yesterday I was able to park my car on the rooftop at the JFK Worldport and stand just a few feet from the PA 74's and Airbii and watch (and hear!!) all the others taxiing and taking off right in front of me. God what a great spot that was -- and what a great airline that was.

Tony
I'M BAAAAAAAACK!
 
levg79
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:35 am

Quoting Panamair (Reply 20):
Final destination was JFK; point was that the 310 did not have the capability to reach JFK with a full payload when there were strong headwinds...

Personally, I have a problem believing this remark. The distance between ISP and JFK is only 37 miles. Would the fuel situation had to be THAT bad for them to make the technical stop? It's would be similar situation if the trans-Atlantic flight to LHR would make a fuel stop at LGW. Does anybody have more information on why would that flight stop at ISP?

Leo.
A mile of runway takes you to the world. A mile of highway takes you a mile.
 
N1120A
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:42 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 24):
Personally, I have a problem believing this remark. The distance between ISP and JFK is only 37 miles. Would the fuel situation had to be THAT bad for them to make the technical stop?

This happens sometimes when an aircraft may end up in a holding pattern at an airport (JFK definately gets them) and will go into a much less congested airport because they are running close to minimums.

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 24):
It's would be similar situation if the trans-Atlantic flight to LHR would make a fuel stop at LGW.

The BA 744 that flew from LAX on 3 engines diverted to MAN when a weak jet stream wouldn't push the lower, slower flying plane to LHR. The difference is less than 130nm
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
CB777
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:16 am

Does anybody know if the pax loads were good on the JFK-ZAG

CB777
 
GroundStop
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:38 am

Quoting Levg79 (Reply 24):
The distance between ISP and JFK is only 37 miles. Would the fuel situation had to be THAT bad for them to make the technical stop?

While I'm not aware of the weather at JFK that night, one has to take into account that it could've been marginal. That being the case, an alternate would be required. If ISP was the alternate given, the fuel burn would have to take into account a missed approach at JFK, and then direct to ISP. If the plane had to hold for any reason until the remaining fuel on board was not sufficient to meet the 'alternate burn' requirement, then a diversion would've become necessary.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Tue Dec 06, 2005 12:30 pm

Why did DL retired their 310s, especially the ones so young? Anyone know the thought process there?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
A999
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:54 am

The DL 310`s were sold off because they did not fit in with the 763`s which were the long haul workhorses. The 312/313`s of PA were meant as fuel efficent L1011/DC10 replacements as well as capacity increase on some shorter sectors (together with A300).
 
DETA737
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RE: Pan Am And The A 310-300

Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:08 am

Quoting Breiz (Reply 19):
Was Pan Am going to retire the 747 fleet for the smaller, newer airbuses? Was that their intention?

PJ

I'm not sure I remember reading in a magazine from 1989 or 1990 about the possibility of Pan Am acquiring the A340/A330 to replace the 747 classics in the 1990s. Getting Pan Am as a longhaul Airbus operator would have been a real coup for Airbus so maybe they could have given them good financing. Also Pan Am had ordered the A320 so we could have seen an all Airbus fleet by the 1990s. However, Pan Am was in too much trouble by that time to have survived.

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