Gemuser
Topic Author
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SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Mon Dec 05, 2005 5:09 pm

With the disscussion flowing here about the QF order and the possiability & desirability on SYD-LHR non stop and the fact that I have finally settled into a decent flat and unpacked my books (Yea!!) I thought I would share with you the August 1939 timetable of the Qantas/Imperial Airways SYD-LHR service. (For the history challegened that is immediately before the outbreak of World War 2)

Sydney Tue, Thur, Sat
Brisbane
Gladstone
Townsville
Townsville Wed, Fri, Mon
Darwin
Koepang
Sourabaya
Sourabaya Fri, Sun, Tue
Batavia
Singapore
Penang
Penang Sat, Mon, Wed
Bangkok
Rangoon
Calcutta
Calcutta Sun, Tue, Thrs
Allahabad
Gwalior
Karachi
Karachi Mon, Wed, Fri
Jiwani
Dabai
Baherin
Basra
Basra Tue, Thrs, Sat
Habbaniyeb (for Baghdah)
Tiberias
Alexandria
Alexandria Wed, Fri, Sun
Athens
Brindisi
Rome
Marseilles
Marseilles Thrs, Sat, Mon
Southampton Water Arrive Thrs, Sat, Mon
Aircraft Shorts S23 C class flying boat
Connecting service offerred Bangkok - Hong Kong twice weekly
Intermediate Service Southampton Water - Calcutta on Wed & Fri returning on Wed & Sat
-------------

9 days, 26 stops compare that to 20 hours(more or less) and no stops!

Also includes are details of services Southampton Water - Durban, KLMs service Amsterdam - Bativia, the Zeppelin service Frtiedrichshafen - Rio and services Paris - Hanoi and African ports. I would be happy to post details if people are intrested.

Gemuser
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felixZRH
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:18 pm

Thanks for this route.
I like such routings and I like the Great Circle Mapper.
So I tried to visualize this route:



Route

Some Cities don't have airports nowadays (e.g. Tabiris), so I looked for the next current airport. But you see the point  Wink .

 wave  Felix
 
BestWestern
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:22 pm

One stops will never catch on!  Smile

Interesting, well researched and original posting. Thanks!
You are 100 times more likely to catch a cold on a flight than an average person!
 
ANother
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:23 pm

Quoting FelixZRH (Reply 1):
Some Cities don't have airports nowadays (e.g. Tabiris), so I looked for the next current airport. But you see the point

Indeed, thanks for this. As this was a flying boat, they didn't need an airport - just water!
 
jush
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Mon Dec 05, 2005 6:39 pm

Thanks for the graphic.
Amazing that we're so close to one stop (if desireable is questionable) but from 28 to 2 stops in under 100 years is amazing, isn't it?

The world has gotten so much smaller in the last century.

Regds
jush
There is one problem with airbus. Though their products are engineering marvels they lack passion, completely.
 
Gemuser
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:53 pm

Felix

Thank you very much for plotting the route. It looks fantastic!

Gemuser
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Matt27
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:55 pm

Quoting FelixZRH (Reply 1):
So I tried to visualize this route:

Thank's Felix  bigthumbsup  it looks great.
Man ska inte dricka rödvin i en vit hall.
 
cricket
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:14 pm

Imagine, sixty five years ago we spoke of range in hundreds of KM, now range is dealt in tens of thousands of KM. Wow! I'm amazed, but I wonder where the plane landed in Gwalior, there are no major lakes/rivers around the fort city, or it might have landed somewhere close to the city. Anyway, did the plane also fly through the night, or did it halt the night at a city?
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A319XFW
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:19 pm

But probably the people who could afford to even fly that trip would be the people who would afford to fly it non stop now  Smile
The poor would have had to go by boat, just like now they would have to stop on the way somewhere  Smile
 
RP TPA
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:14 pm

If Southwest were to ever fly SYD-LHR, the 26-stop itinerary would sound just about right!!  Smile
 
Ken777
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:21 am

I moved to RTW flights several years ago over TUL-SYD-TUL so I would have a chance to see the world instead of just water. What I get these days is nothing like the 26 stops on a SYD-LHR in 1939. I would love to know what those flights cost in today's dollars.
 
calvin99
Posts: 180
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:50 am

Wow, thanks for posting the routing. It is very informative and interesting!!
 
Morvious
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:08 am

I would not be so happy about non stop flight this long, but this is just a personal feeling.

But 26 stops for a route like that is just a little to much  Smile

Thanks for posting, its hard to beleve nowadays things were that different only a "few" years back!
have a good day, Stefan van Hierden
 
timz
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:20 am

Quoting Cricket (Reply 7):
Anyway, did the plane also fly through the night, or did it halt the night at a city?

That's why it took nine days, because they stayed in hotels (?) overnight.
 
TinkerBelle
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:47 am

Woow! Quite interesting.. It's amazing what new technology has brought us in this day and age.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
Gemuser
Topic Author
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:47 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 13):
Quoting Cricket (Reply 7):
Anyway, did the plane also fly through the night, or did it halt the night at a city?

That's why it took nine days, because they stayed in hotels (?) overnight.

AFAIK there are no routine night landings in flying boats, because it is just about impossiable for the pilot to actually see the surface of the water and so flare the aircraft.

Night take offs on the other hand were routine, I have had the JOY of flying a Shorts S25 with Ansett Flying Boat Services SWA - LHI (Sydney Water Airport(Rose Bay) - Lord Howe Island) and we left SWA at 2:00am (to catch the tide at the island) Without a doubt my most increadable flying exprience.
The QF wartime service PER-CMB also used night take offs to avoid day time heat.

On the QF/IA service the pax stayed at hotels overnight where they existed, in a few locations the airlines actually built guest houses because suitable accommodations were not available. Sourabaya rings a bell and I am sure there was at least one in India and some in the Midle East.


Gemuser
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Aircellist
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:57 am

Thanks Gmuser, for that thread.

Yes, please, show us the other routes... Do you have AF's South American routes as well, and PanAm's first transatlantic service?
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
pzurita1
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:30 am

Gmuser,
Some times those timetables also included tickets costs. could you post them in case they were included? If in Sterlings I could post them in current terms.
I am quite very sure that ticket would cost much more than a first class tickets on the some route nowadas.

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
timz
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:56 am

In 1939 KLM/KNILM charged 160 pounds London to Sydney; likely Imperial was the same. The DC-3s got there a bit faster than the Shorts.
 
richierich
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:06 am

How long would LHR-SYD have taken in Concorde, and how many stops would it have taken?

I know I am ignoring little things like noise pollution and sonic booms, etc. but just curious.
None shall pass!!!!
 
Gemuser
Topic Author
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:08 am

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 16):
Yes, please, show us the other routes... Do you have AF's South American routes as well, and PanAm's first transatlantic service?

Sorry nothing for the North Atlantic and the only South American service is :

"Timetable of the "Zeppelin" Airships"
South America:

Friedrichshafen/Frankfort Dep Wednesday evening
Pernambuco/Recife Arr Saturday evening
Rio de Janerio Arr Sunday evening
Buenos Aires Arr Tuesday [via aeroplane connection of Syndicato Condor Ltda from Pernambuco.]

Return
Buenos Aires Dep Tuesday [via aeroplane connection of Syndicato Condor Ltda to Pernambuco.]
Rio Dep Wednesday evening
Pernambuco/Recife Dep Thursday evening
Frankfort Arr Monday evening

North American Service (Lakehurst)
Suspended until further notice

I will post the KLM/KNILM service to Batavia/Sydney and the Air France service to Saigon etc in seperate messages shortly.

Pzurita1 - Sorry there is no fare info included.

I should have mentioned it before, all timetables are from faxsimile reprint of the August 1939 edition of Cooks Continental Timetable published in 1987 by David & Charles Publishers plc.

Gemuser
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babybus
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:13 am

This information is really interesting.

Don't suppose you have a timetable for UK-OZ in the 1970's as I think even then they had several interesting stops en route.

Cheers
and with that..cabin crew, seats for landing please.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:19 pm

Thanks for that; I found it informative and fascinating.

Do you know the actual routing(s) for UK-South Africa?

Wouldn't it be fabulous if a one-off spotters' flight restepping the 26 stops from the UK to Australia existed using an old aircraft?
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
pzurita1
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:54 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 18):
In 1939 KLM/KNILM charged 160 pounds London to Sydney;

if that price is correct, then in current terms that tix would cost 6,615 sterling, or US$11,578 . Not bad considering that you can get a First Class ticket flyign CX for less than US$9,500.

Here a good link if you want to know how much is worth anything in current terms since 13th century: http://eh.net/hmit/ppowerbp/

PZ
Next flight: IAH-DBX-MRU-ANT
 
timz
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:52 am

In 1947 London-Sydney fare was 260 pounds on the flying boats, or 300 pounds on the converted Lancasters, which took something less than half the time. (London-Singapore was a 2-stop for them.)
 
RichardJF
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:30 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 24):
In 1947 London-Sydney fare was 260 pounds on the flying boats, or 300 pounds on the converted Lancasters, which took something less than half the time. (London-Singapore was a 2-stop for them.)

Not far off the fare's EK is talking about now
 
pzurita1
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Fri Dec 09, 2005 9:15 am

Quoting Timz (Reply 24):
1947 London-Sydney fare was 260 pounds on the flying boats,

Or 6,598 pounds of 2004.... Which seems rather consistent with 1939 KL services from London-Sydney.
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Gemuser
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:15 pm

Guy I have moved all non Oz-UK timetables to a more appriprately titled thread "Long Haul Timetables In August 1939"

Pe@rson I'll be posting Southampton - Durban in the above thread very shortly

Gemuser
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Gemuser
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RE: SYD-LHR 26 Stop To Non Stop

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:02 pm

Quoting Richierich (Reply 19):
How long would LHR-SYD have taken in Concorde, and how many stops would it have taken?

The plan was LHR-BAH-CMB-SIN-MEL and about 12 hours, BUT I can not remember if that was total or flight time.

A special SuperSonic Flight corridor was defined across the Australian land mass from around Broome on the North West coast to North West Victoria. The Concorde would dep SIN, fly sub sonic directly across Sumatra, then go super sonic until somewhere south of Mildura in NW Victoria, and then proceede normally into MEL.

From memory ONLY I think one trial run was made in the SS corridor, no problems were reported.


Gemuser
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