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jfklganyc
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B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:06 am

Hey all,

With the new terminal being built with 26 gates and a possible expansion to 36 gates, is it safe to say that JetBlue may one day have a mega-hub at JFK?

While I highly doubt they will ever fly internationally outside of North America, I do envision them serving virtually every city on the East Coast from JFK+transcons+Florida+a moderate to large Carribean/Mexico/Canada presence and a lot of flights to the midwest. If those plans do come to fruition, will JFK be a 500+ flight city for B6 one day?

Your thought are appreciated!

PJ
 
AA7573E
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:29 am

Why do you highly doubt they will ever fly internationally outside of North America, seeing as how they already do. Further expansion into yielding Latin American, Mexican, South American and European markets is all but inevitable. They are simply following the money. To assume they would not, would be foolish.
See you up front!
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:40 am

Well, I hope they do, but it's not part of their corporate plan. Maybe that's why I said that.

But again . . . I'd like to focus the topic on the JFK hub.

Thanx, PJ
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:42 am

I think it will eventually. By like 2010 they will have 400 something planes and a bigger terminal. They will be able to add a lot of flights and cities. I think over time they will have a mega hub at JFK.

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 
 
AA7573E
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:45 am

Baring any major hickups, they should have a major hub, and it will likely feed international travel to points East and South.
See you up front!
 
Cory6188
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:52 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
a mega-hub at JFK?

While I don't know if it will ever get to the level of what CO has at IAH, NW at DTW, or DL at ATL, B6 at JFK will surely be a substantial presence in the NYC market.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:53 am

I am not sure what constitutes a mega-hub - there probably isn't a true definition. So if related to a hub we can all agree is a mega-hub, DL in ATL, then I can't see JFK ever reaching that massive size for B6. There simply isn't the domestic connection possiblities given the location of JFK. They will reach critical mass before their JFK operation could ever be referred to as a "mega-hub" using ATL as the benchmark.

Also how much more traffic during peak can JFK sustain? We have B6, DL and AA wrestling at JFK with their own terminals and aircraft in addition to metal from every corner of the world wanting a spot on the tarmac. At some point the airport logistics itself will prevent B6 from turning it into a mega-hub.

With all of this being said, yes B6 can and will turn JFK into an impressive hub operation, one that could possibly rival CO's EWR. Perhaps going transatlantic is in the near future, but that would facilitate a another aircraft type. But a "mega-hub"? Doubtful.
 
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STT757
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 5:57 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
will JFK be a 500+ flight city for B6 one day?

WN has the best turn arounds in the industry, they can get about 10 flights per day from each gate. With 26 gates B6 would probably be able to sufficiently run their JFK operation at between 200-250 flights per day.

That's about the same number of flights and the same number of gates WN runs at their PHX operation, and the weather in Phoenix is more conducive towards that type of quick turn around operation than JFK.

200-250 flights max.

I don't think in five years B6 will have 500 flights system wide, let alone at a single airport. I doubt JFK could even handle that kind of growth, even with it's current under capacity.
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rwsea
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:02 am

I don't think we'll see B6 at JFK expand into something like AA at DFW, DL at ATL, or even CO at EWR. The biggest reason is that the airport is slot controlled, and already there are certain times of the day where extra flights aren't an option. You can't continue to grow into a mega hub with multiple banks under this kind of a scenario. If JFK were to somehow add additional runways, then this might be possible.

Also, don't discount the importance of DL and AA at JFK. Both have a significant number of domestic and interntional flights, and they won't just roll over for B6.
 
bobnwa
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:08 am

JFK is not geographically placed to be a hub for any airline domestically. A hub has banks of flights arriving together and swapping passengers to many destinations. Other than a few points north of JFK what connecting markets would there be? Having a lot of flights does not make a hub!
 
Kahala777
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:19 am

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Thread starter):
With the new terminal being built with 26 gates and a possible expansion to 36 gates, is it safe to say that JetBlue may one day have a mega-hub at JFK?

Although it will not have the power of AA at DFW, UA at ORD, or DL at ATL.. JetBlue will have a presence at JFK that will make Delta Airlines, and American Airlines presence in the market seem like childs play. American, United, and Delta have both been trying to hang on for dear life to what is left of once great JFK operations.

In the future it is very possible to see Jet Blue and Continental emerge as the major airlines for domestic service in the New York City market. Connections aside, Jet Blue already has a more than impressive operation!

KAHALA777
 
AwysBSB
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:24 am

Fortunately, if B6 try to make a mega-hub in JFK, they will not be the first.
NCY is a place for market competition and, if B6 try to be very big there, this carrier might have problems.
The city`s air traffic does not depend on passengers that are making connections, but depends on passengers that are starting or ending their journeys there. Thus the best flight option between NYC and a specific city could not the be B6`s, and B6 can lose a lot with it.
Markets like the Minneapolis` or Salt Lake City`s are safe for the carriers that are big there, because the profile of these market are welcoming to mega-hubs.
It is curious, but NYC has never been welcoming for any oligopolist move!
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:32 am

I think it's been said before, but JFK is not slot-controlled. Between 5 and 9 pm there are slots in place that JetBlue has many exemptions for. At ALL other times there are no slots . . . and the airport has lots of excess capacity.

JFK is not yet in the situation of ORD or LGA . . . substantial growth is possible.

Also, I believe what is left of the slots will expire in 2007 . . . maybe someone could help me with that.

Another interesting question that came up here is DL and AA, so I'll ask this:
Will B6 at JFK chase other airlines with large domestic ops out? Kind of like CO did to UA/DL/AA at EWR. All three had a larger presence at EWR before CO grew their hub to its massive size.

PJ
 
Kahala777
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:35 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 11):
NCY is a place for market competition and, if B6 try to be very big there, this carrier might have problems.

N Y C

Why would B6-Jet Blue have problems in the New York market. Have you done a little bit of research to see the routes that American, Delta, United, and Continental have run from, due to the ever expanding Jet Blue network?

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 11):
The city`s air traffic does not depend on passengers that are making connections, but depends on passengers that are starting or ending their journeys there.

B6-Jet Blue and their business model rely almost 100% on O/D in the markets that they serve. As a result Jet Blue does not need to feed 30 or 40 flights for every West Coast arriving flight. B6-Jet Blue can survive on the wealth of O/D in the New York, Boston, Washington, Long Beach, Oakland, and Ft. Lauderdale markets.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 11):
Thus the best flight option between NYC and a specific city could not the be B6`s, and B6 can lose a lot with it.

Why Not? B6-Jet Blue is not a "connecting" airline, it is a O/D based airline.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 11):
Markets like the Minneapolis` or Salt Lake City`s are safe for the carriers that are big there, because the profile of these market are welcoming to mega-hubs.

So you are saying that MSP, and SLC are "mega-hub's".... You may want to check your facts on that one again. Look at Continental Airlines and their Newark fortress, Delta Airlines and their Atlanta fortress.. New York city has so much demand that they have 4 airports serving it (EWR, HPN, JFK, LGA). 2 of the New York area airports demand some of the highest yields in the World, not to mention the most impressive international and domestic O/D on the North American continent!

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 11):
It is curious, but NYC has never been welcoming for any oligopolist move!

coisa?

KAHALA777
 
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fxramper
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:38 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 10):
American Airlines presence in the market seem like childs play.

You talk as if AA ops at JFK is a ghost town...what happened to their new shiny terminal? I'm sure bringing the 752s with winglets is gonna blow up their trans-atlantic routes outta JFK...I'm hoping!  Smile

JFK-DUS ?
JFK-BCN ?
JFK-EDI ?
JFK-TXL ?
JFK-ORY ?

All my humble speculation!
 
N1120A
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:43 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
WN has the best turn arounds in the industry, they can get about 10 flights per day from each gate. With 26 gates B6 would probably be able to sufficiently run their JFK operation at between 200-250 flights per day.

As it is, B6 doesn't turn planes nearly as fast as WN does, so either they will have to speed that up or will be limited as to what they can do.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 8):
The biggest reason is that the airport is slot controlled,

JFK isn't actually slot controlled. During the international heavy times of day (when B6 is not as busy), there are ATC issues with capacity, but the airport itself is not slot controlled.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 13):
Why Not? B6-Jet Blue is not a "connecting" airline, it is a O/D based airline.

Actually, B6 does a lot of north-south connecting traffic at JFK
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Kahala777
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Actually, B6 does a lot of north-south connecting traffic at JFK

They do have connectiing traffic, that is a point... However, their business model for the most part is O/D of which Jet Blue picks markets and right sizes aircraft.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 14):
what happened to their new shiny terminal?

You tell us... No one major route has been added to JFK... Same old stuff, a few more San Juan and Santo Domingo, but nothing at all to remark of a major expansion in the JFK market.

Quoting FXramper (Reply 14):
I'm sure bringing the 752s with winglets is gonna blow up their trans-atlantic routes outta JFK...

You are forgetting a few facts... American Airlines dropped routes such as San Jose, Long Beach, and Orange County because of not ony competition, but financial problems... of which American Airlines is not clear of.. Trans-Atlantic flights as an expansion from JFK ha yet to be seen. In 2006 American Airlines plans to open one route to its JFK network, and that is Newcastle. How on Earth would AA serving Newcastle ever effect Jet Blue? American Airlines and Delta Airlines are hanging onto what is left in that JFK market. They have both been hit hard, and hit squarely by the Jet Blue impact..

KAHALA777
 
luv2fly
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:51 am

Quoting AA7573E (Reply 1):
Why do you highly doubt they will ever fly internationally outside of North America, seeing as how they already do. Further expansion into yielding Latin American, Mexican, South American and European markets is all but inevitable. They are simply following the money. To assume they would not, would be foolish.

They might be following the money as you say. Though in reality they have to chase markets that there planes can service. Right now Europe is out of the question with the A320's.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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airzim
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:58 am

While there may be times in the late morning and the middle of the afternoon to run additional flights from JFK, there just isn't the demand. Business traffic is early morning and late afternoon/evening, There are runway constraints in the evening and you can only run so many flights to SYR at 7am.

Mega-hub is just not going to happen.
 
Kahala777
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:02 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 18):
Mega-hub is just not going to happen

True.. as Mega-Hubs, require Mega-Space!

KAHALA777
 
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STT757
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:10 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
JFK isn't actually slot controlled. During the international heavy times of day (when B6 is not as busy), there are ATC issues with capacity, but the airport itself is not slot controlled.

One issue lost on people is the air space constraints, sure there's room for growth at JFK both with existing infastructure and if they could get a new runway built. However that would be throwing money away because the biggest constraint to growing the number of flights into and out of the Tri-State area airports is not runway capacity but air space capacity and the capacity of the man power and technology the FAA is currently fielding to handle the capacity.

And it's not just EWR, JFK and LGA. Teterboro for instance handles about as many flights as JFK, lots and lots of G-V's and Netjets filling the sky.

While there may be room to grow on the ground the constraints in the airspace make any large infastructure investments futile until the FAA first makes a concerted effort to expand the workforce, upgrade the equipment and re-design the airspace to better handle the air traffic flow. However with current Federal Budget deficits those large seemingly sensible investments are not forthcoming.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Mir
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:22 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 13):
So you are saying that MSP, and SLC are "mega-hub's".... You may want to check your facts on that one again.

Are you saying MSP isn't an NW mega-hub?

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
AwysBSB
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:29 pm

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 13):
Why would B6-Jet Blue have problems in the New York market. Have you done a little bit of research to see the routes that American, Delta, United, and Continental have run from, due to the ever expanding Jet Blue network?

There are so many US carrier flying long haul from NYC because of O/D traffic, and not because of the B6`s network.
That presence of AA, DL, UA and CO makes clear that NYC is a place for the competition and if B6 try to be dominant there, it might receive unfavorable responses from the market.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 13):
Why Not? B6-Jet Blue is not a "connecting" airline, it is a O/D based airline.

Well, FL, HP, TZ, F9, DH, YX, Song, NK and WS are working with the New Yorker O/D traffic too.
Sometimes, the offer of those airlines can be better than the B6`s, and B6 can lose a lot with it.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 13):
So you are saying that MSP, and SLC are "mega-hub's".... You may want to check your facts on that one again. Look at Continental Airlines and their Newark fortress, Delta Airlines and their Atlanta fortress.. New York city has so much demand that they have 4 airports serving it (EWR, HPN, JFK, LGA). 2 of the New York area airports demand some of the highest yields in the World, not to mention the most impressive international and domestic O/D on the North American continent!

I did not mention MSP and SLC are mega-hubs, I mentioned those market are WELCOMING to mega-hubs!
I ask you for you look at the facts I posted before replying my statements.
Anyway, NWA has more than 70 gates in MSP and that is bigger than what B6 can have in NYC.
 
whitehatter
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:37 pm

I was thinking in the car the other day (as you do when in traffic jams) and came to the conclusion that B6 will surprise us all one day and apply for JFK-LHR when open skies becomes a reality. They can provide connectivity and feed such a service after all.

I would not be surprised either if they bypassed LHR and instead went for a cooperation agreement with a Euro lowcost to join networks. Heap scorn on this if you wish, but evolution favours the fittest. Providing a linked up hub-to-hub arrangement could be done with relatively little administration cost, although the details of missed connections and liability would need to be settled.
Lead me not into temptation, I can find my own way there...
 
Kahala777
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:01 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 22):
That presence of AA, DL, UA and CO makes clear that NYC is a place for the competition and if B6 try to be dominant there, it might receive unfavorable responses from the market.

There has been no unfavorable reponse so far to Jet Blue!  sarcastic 

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 22):
I mentioned those market are WELCOMING to mega-hubs!

Welcoming? ... What do you mean?

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 22):
Well, FL, HP, TZ, F9, DH, YX, Song, NK and WS are working with the New Yorker O/D traffic too.

Yeah... and your point is????

KAHALA777
 
Tornado82
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:21 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I don't think in five years B6 will have 500 flights system wide, let alone at a single airport.

Are they going to park all those planes they have on order?

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 3):
By like 2010 they will have 400 something planes and a bigger

See, something doesn't add up with 400 planes and less than 500 flights.

IMHO it will be a compromise. I just can't see JetBlue keeping up on that current ambitious delivery schedule. Their plan basically has them going from nothing, to Southwest-sized, in a decade. Even Southwest took 3+ decades for that.
 
AwysBSB
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 24):
There has been no unfavorable reponse so far to Jet Blue!

I hope so!

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 24):
Welcoming? ... What do you mean?

I will wait for someone answer it!

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 24):
Yeah... and your point is????

Oh, give me a break!

KAHALA777,
An important thing for you and JetBluefan1 remember: give peace a chance!

[Edited 2005-12-06 16:39:56]
 
Kahala777
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:40 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 25):
I just can't see JetBlue keeping up on that current ambitious delivery schedule. Their plan basically has them going from nothing, to Southwest-sized, in a decade.

It makes you wonder who is planning this huge white elephant of an expansion!

KAHALA777
 
Tornado82
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:54 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 27):
It makes you wonder who is planning this huge white elephant of an expansion!

See I just questioned the validity of their expansion. You're name calling.

So wow, now you're bashing Jet Blue too.

United, USAirways, America West, JetBlue... any other airlines you hate we should know about? Better yet, are there any airlines you DO like?
 
cloudy
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:05 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
As it is, B6 doesn't turn planes nearly as fast as WN does, so either they will have to speed that up or will be limited as to what they can do.

That is mainly due to three things...

1. Longer average flight length. More fuel and provisions must be loaded. People also tend to pack heavier, on the average, for long flights. This increases the time to load checked bags. It also increases the number and size of carryons, which increases the time it takes to board passengers.

2. Larger aircraft. Up until recently they have flown only the A320 which carries more people than Southwests 737-700's but cannot load or unload passengers any faster. The A320 is equivelent in size to a 737-800.

3. They assign seats. Open seating is faster most of the time.

I don't think it is due to any lack of efficiency on Jetblue's part. They could probably turn arrround an E190 on a shorthaul route at least as fast as Southwest could turn a 737.
 
Kahala777
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:08 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 28):
So wow, now you're bashing Jet Blue too.

That is not bashing... That is just simply asking a question as to who is the mind behind the huge expansion that Jet Blue has in its sights. I am not saying it will not happen. What I am commenting on is will they in reality grow the leaps and bounds that they have planned, or is it just a paper plan with a big wait and see....

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 28):
United, USAirways, America West, JetBlue... any other airlines you hate we should know about? Better yet, are there any airlines you DO like?

Sorry refresh my memory as to when I "bashed" America West...
(Although it is very unfortunate that America West is together with US Airways)

Domestic Likes: HA, HP, AQ
Domestic Dis-Likes: Everyone Else
Domestic Love-Hate: CO, UA

Lastly, this is a forum to discuss aviation.... airlines, routes, aircraft, service.. etc!


KAHALA777
 
stirling
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:25 am

Mega-Hubs would be classified as:
1. ATL
2. ORD
3. DFW

Everyone else is just a hub..."Fortress" designator or not. "Fortress" is the adjective to express the relation of the dominant carrier and the competition.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 20):
One issue lost on people is the air space constraints, sure there's room for growth at JFK both with existing infastructure and if they could get a new runway built. However that would be throwing money away because the biggest constraint to growing the number of flights into and out of the Tri-State area airports is not runway capacity but air space capacity and the capacity of the man power and technology the FAA is currently fielding to handle the capacity.

For fun I am posting a snapshot of NYC Area traffic taken at 11:20am EST on Dec 6 2006.
And this isn't "peak". I just look at it and get indigestion!
http://map.flightaware.com/airport_map.rvt?ident=KJFK;key=2b79f2126599316f762c825ae4e3783c3f2116a3;height=600;width=800

source:
www.flightaware.com
("most entertaining website EVER!"...he says in the voice of Comic-Book Man.)
Delete this User
 
incitatus
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:48 am

36 gates doesn't make anything mega.
I don't think JFK will even be the largest airport in JetBlue's network a few years down the road. They will pick an airport with a lot of gates and space, such as Dulles or Denver, and blue the thing out.
Stop pop up ads
 
F27XXX
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:30 am

JFK is just a win-win situation for B6 any way you look at it.


  • The NYC market is strong enough that B6 could make very nearly any route they chose to work out of JFK, particularly with the new smaller EMB jets, giving even more malleability in their route planning. JFK doesn't need to be a 'hub' for B6 in the connecting-passsenger sense.

  • B6 is already well known and liked by the NYC travelling public - in large part due to their fares, but also good service, good schedules and offering N/S service out of JFK to cities not previously served (AUS), or not served with good frequency from there. The addition of the LGA and EWR flights, though they're not likely to grow to the size of the JFK station shows an even further commitment to the NYC market.

  • They'll have an enormous amount of gate space once their new terminal is complete

  • B6 has shown flexibility in it's initial business plan. I remember way back just before they started, the entire focus was to be on JFK as an operations base - and JFK only. When they saw opportunities open up in LGB and now in BOS, they went for them and are doing well. So even though they say that long-haul service, such as to Europe (of course requiring larger planes) isn't in the cards right now ... stay tuned.
    They obviously have a great relationship with Airbus too, so it's my prediction that within 5 yrs or so, we'll hear about some B6 A330s being ordered to offer some longhaul service across the Atlantic. If anyone can make a low-cost long-haul operation work, it's JetBlue!



IMHO, of course!

Tony
I'M BAAAAAAAACK!
 
BigGSFO
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:42 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 31):
Mega-Hubs would be classified as:
1. ATL
2. ORD
3. DFW

Everyone else is just a hub..."Fortress" designator or not.

I agree 100%. JFK is a hub, but will probably never be a mega-hub for any airline.
 
jetbluefan1
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:55 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 34):
JFK is a hub, but will probably never be a mega-hub for any airline.

I agree. Even JetBlue will not be able to make JFK a mega-hub. Considering that there is just so much competition both domestically (though it has been scaled back quite a bit) and internationally, no one airline can have a real dominance over the majority of traffic.

A hub? Sure. JetBlue will most likely continue its status as the biggest airline at JFK. But as they are expanding at LGA and EWR too, I really don't see JFK being a "mega-hub." In any case, LCC's aren't known for relying too much on one station, and I'm sure as their BOS operations continue to expand, more opportunities will be found there too.

JetBluefan1
 
AEROFAN
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:58 am

well i for one hope so. i look forward to my neighbourhood airport becoming the busiest in the world. or at least in the top 3  Smile
 
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STT757
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:53 am

Quoting Stirling (Reply 31):
For fun I am posting a snapshot of NYC Area traffic taken at 11:20am EST on Dec 6 2006.
And this isn't "peak". I just look at it and get indigestion!

And that does not include the Military traffic in Central NJ because of McGuire Air Force Base, the Warren Grove bombing range or the Atlantic training area off the Jersey shore utilized by Air Force and Navy units from all over the East Coast.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Tornado82
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:19 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 37):
And that does not include

Nor does it include half of the area around ABE, which is on the path of approaches/departures from NYC. We might not be a Newark, but added with the rest of the mess, more than once I've been on a westbound plane that sat on the runway in a position and hold type deal for 10 minutes or so at ABE just for a slot to get off the ground and merge into the "highway" of traffic in/out of NYC... especially when EWR is using whatever departures and arrivals that use the ETX VOR... or taken extremely odd vectorings on approach to stay out of the way of NYC traffic. Luckily, taxi time at ABE is virtually nil, so there's not much delay in the end.
 
willyj
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:56 am

Quoting F27XXX (Reply 33):
They obviously have a great relationship with Airbus too, so it's my prediction that within 5 yrs or so, we'll hear about some B6 A330s being ordered to offer some longhaul service across the Atlantic. If anyone can make a low-cost long-haul operation work, it's JetBlue!

I think you mean A350s or 787s...
 
F27XXX
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:53 am

Quoting Willyj (Reply 39):
I think you mean A350s or 787s...

I'd be very happy with either!
I'M BAAAAAAAACK!
 
tommy767
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:12 pm

B6 is very strong at JFK, still AA has that brand new Billion dollar terminal. I was just in it, and it's very impressive. I worry about AA and if they plan on extending their domestic ops like B6 has done maturely over the pat 5 years. When I was there the massive gate space was occupied with most aircraft doing XC routes. However, when I went by T6 at JFK I noticed that even at 8pm on a Sunday night the terminal was bustling with passengers.

If there is one thing that AA has that B6 doesn't at JFK it's the 11 Widebody flights from JFK to LAX. The 762 cross country is SO much more comfortable than the A320. But that's the big difference between the two carriers (size and fleets)

Tommy in EWR/LAX.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
SunValley
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:44 pm

This whole thing is kind of reminiscent of People Express over at Newark.
 
AwysBSB
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:45 pm

Quoting Aerofan (Reply 36):
well i for one hope so. i look forward to my neighbourhood airport becoming the busiest in the world. or at least in the top 3

Man,
by the statements you have already posted in other threads, your writing is so good!   
If I did not see your flag, I would never suspect you are an American!
Anyway, that your point of view is great…  dopey 

[Edited 2005-12-07 14:04:23]
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:39 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 43):
Man,
by the statements you have already posted in other threads, your writing is so good!
If I did not see your flag, I would never suspect you are an American!

Well he writes better then you do (Not saying it mean but your word order is not right but it doesn't really matter because you probably are learning English)

 airplane jetBlueAtJFK airplane 
 
Mir
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 41):
If there is one thing that AA has that B6 doesn't at JFK it's the 11 Widebody flights from JFK to LAX. The 762 cross country is SO much more comfortable than the A320.

As far as I'm concerned, LiveTV on a 320 beats a 762 without it.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
sflaflight
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:32 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 9):
JFK is not geographically placed to be a hub for any airline domestically. A hub has banks of flights arriving together and swapping passengers to many destinations. Other than a few points north of JFK what connecting markets would there be? Having a lot of flights does not make a hub!

Ok, but if one takes your point of view of geography, then only a selected few centralized cities can ever be hubs (MEM - STL - MCI, just to name a few). Geographically, MSP wouldn't be a hub as it can't handle southern connections well but MEM can. That means that geographically, MIA could never be a domestic hub, yet it is. It can theoretically connect RSW or TPA with MSY or JAX to LAX no differently than JAX-MSP-LAX. B6 could essentially connect FLL to richmond; that's not north of JFK. I'm sure plenty of people would do that, if the fares were good. Also, some hubs like MIA don't even have banks! it's just one free for all!

Quoting Stirling (Reply 31):
Mega-Hubs would be classified as:
1. ATL
2. ORD
3. DFW

Everyone else is just a hub..."Fortress" designator or not. "Fortress" is the adjective to express the relation of the dominant carrier and the competition.

This starts the whole debate as to what is a hub all over again. This has been done over and over on this site according to each owns interpretation.
Mega hub, hub, focus city, city of influence, base, crew base AHHH!!!!!! Stop the insanity.
 
Mir
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:20 am

Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 46):
Geographically, MSP wouldn't be a hub as it can't handle southern connections well but MEM can.

Geographically, I think MSP is a very good hub. Sure, going MIA-MSP-SAN isn't ideal, but you're never going to have a hub that is convenient for every possible connection.

MSP is conveniently located near a large portion of the midwest, and is a good connection point for transcons (apart from those going southeast to southwest). An airport like MIA, SEA or BOS would not have good geographic location for a hub, since almost every flight would have to backtrack to get to that airport (except for international flights of course).

JFK can connect northeast-southeast very well, and some northeast-transcon, but other than that it doesn't offer much in the way of geographically sensible connections.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
AwysBSB
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:44 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 26):
Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 24):
Welcoming? ... What do you mean?

I will wait for someone answer it!



Quoting Mir (Reply 47):
MSP is conveniently located near a large portion of the midwest, and is a good connection point for transcons (apart from those going southeast to southwest). An airport like MIA, SEA or BOS would not have good geographic location for a hub, since almost every flight would have to backtrack to get to that airport (except for international flights of course).

JFK can connect northeast-southeast very well, and some northeast-transcon, but other than that it doesn't offer much in the way of geographically sensible connections.

Kahala777,

What I selected in the Mir`s statement partially answers your question.
 
icebird757
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RE: B6 At JFK: Future Mega-Hub?

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:47 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 7):
I don't think in five years B6 will have 500 flights system wide, let alone at a single airport.

Sorry to burst your knowledge bubble dude but we are approaching our 6 year anniversary and currently we have service to 33 cities with 326 flights daily with a fleet of 84 A320s and 5 E190's. Next year we are recieving 19 A320s and 19 E190s. So in 5 more years your saying that we won't have 500 daily flights system wide? I am willing to put some money down that says the opposite of that! Any takers???

Stephen

[Edited 2005-12-08 02:48:55]
LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.

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