flymli
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NW Service From RFD To DTW

Tue Dec 06, 2005 6:52 am

There has been a lot of discussion recently about RFD and NW service to DTW and the incentives that were offered. I cannot find a flight out of RFD to DTW after 1/6/06. The inventory shows zeros across the flight so that appears to me that the service is discontinued. Has anybody heard otherwise?
 
ord
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:47 am

From what I know the service has not performed well and that it would not be surprising if it were dropped.
 
KarlB737
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:10 am

Courtesy: Rockford Register Star

Readers Report Satisfaction With Northwest
May 26, 2005

http://www.rrstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...ID=/20050526/OPINION0102/505260328
 
FlyPeoria
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:26 am

The two roundtrip DTW-RFD NW flights are still shown on http://travel.airwise.com/schedules/index.html in mid-February.

DPJ
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:29 am

Indeed, while still bookable at NW.com, the flight is zeroed out in res systems, which is usually a placeholder for canceling a flight once the new schedules go into place over the weekend.
a.
 
access-air
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Tue Dec 06, 2005 8:34 am

I honestly think that had NW provided RFD with maybe 4 better timed flights to RFD and say three back up to MSP maybe they would have made it.
NW used to serve Rockford for along time until the chose to vacate the market in June of 2001.
I still say that Rockford suffers from "Too-close-to-Chicago-itis" and with VanGalder Bus lines providing Rockford to OHare 15 round trips per day and Rockford to Midway with 7 round trips per day, no airline unless they are providing a westward spoke is going to ever make it there.Actually I still wish there was airservice from Rockford into OHare. When American Eagle did that they were full all the time and at their peak had about 11 round trips per day.
OHare just provides so many nonstop destinations its hard to beat.
What Rockford really needs is a true airline like Southwest or America West that can provide the area with true online connections to other destinations, beyond Phoenix or Vegas. Yes its nice to have Allegiant in Rockford but that the only place you can fly to.
I think United with their feeble attempt to introduce Rockford to Denver service should be left alone unless they put a full size aircraft there. Frontier#1 used to do it on a semi nonstop basis either stopping in Cedar Rapids or Madison when they flew to denver from there. Ozark used to service Rockford to denver usually directly with stops in Waterloo Sioux City or Sioux Falls. The need is there for an airline to serve the city of Rockford with full size jets ..not "Steroid Boosted Bizjets" especially on legs of 2 hours or more...
What Rockford needs is four airlines....

Jetblue to JFK and Beyond
AirTran to Atlanta/Orlando and Beyond
Southwest to Phoenix/Vegas and Beyond
Frontier to Denver and Beyond

They could effectively servie the city of Rockford and give many different choices of places to fly to. It seems like the hub and spoke system is here to stay so why not make the best of it....

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
KDCA
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:11 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 5):
Jetblue to JFK and Beyond
AirTran to Atlanta/Orlando and Beyond
Southwest to Phoenix/Vegas and Beyond
Frontier to Denver and Beyond

With ORD only an hour and 25 minutes down the road I think all of these are a pipe dream.

Jet Blue isn't even interested in coming to MDW let alone going to RFD, they wont be in Chicago until ORD expansion.

AirTran has recently added flights at MDW, and if TZ disappears then I would expect more gates at MDW for AirTran.

Southwest: MDW end of story

F9: MDW end of story, they don't need to pretend like RFD is really in Chicago because they already serve MDW, unlike their CLE market.

Without any turboprops at UA or AA out of ORD and security waits how they are, RFD should be happy with the service it has, especially UA to DEN.
 
MAH4546
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:13 am

Apparently it is true. Look for a story in the Rockford Register Star tomorrow or Wednesday.
a.
 
roseflyer
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:16 pm

Well this isn't so good for RFD. It seems like the airport is burning through airlines and no one is truly suceeding. First TMA goes bust, now NW leaves and Hooters is threatening.

UA might have the best chance though. The proximity of ORD might be a good thing. There are a lot of loyal UA flyers in the RFD area since it is a short commute to ORD. These people might want to continue to earn frequent flyer miles by flying UA to DEN. Also the one year profit guarantees that the airport authority has put up won't hurt. At least UA will give it a try. If UA can't do anything, then RFD might be permanently stuck with charter carriers since the Rockford Metro area is the second largest in the state of Illinois and over 350,000 people. There is demand, but will the high fare passengers be willing to take a connection over nonstop options from ORD?
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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mariner
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:39 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7):
Look for a story in the Rockford Register Star tomorrow or Wednesday.

It's official. Going bye-bye January 3:

http://www.rrstar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...le?AID=/20051205/NEWS0107/51205010

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
flymli
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 10:50 pm

RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:54 pm

This is another reason why revenue guarantees do not work. Once the airline takes all the money, the service is discontinued. I still can't figure out where all the money for the other revenue guarantees are coming from!
 
loisencroach
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Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:56 am

RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:02 am

Quoting Flymli (Reply 10):
This is another reason why revenue guarantees do not work. Once the airline takes all the money, the service is discontinued. I still can't figure out where all the money for the other revenue guarantees are coming from!

Bruce Carter and Dee Snider sold all their Leo Sayer 8-tracks and made just enough money to assist the cause.
 
toltommy
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:12 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 5):
I honestly think that had NW provided RFD with maybe 4 better timed flights to RFD and say three back up to MSP maybe they would have made it.

Are you saying NWA should've started with 7 daily flights?  crazy 

I think the biggest problem for RFD is that all they were offering is connecting service. Chicago area fliers are used to nonstop flights. The problem at RFD is similar to the problem TOL has. Everyone is used to driving to a bigger airport for a nonstop flight. RFD needs to look at the NWA service and figure out what was the biggest connecting markets. Then try to get non-stop service to those markets, rather than connect. Follow it up with a major ad campaign in the far west suburbs, and it might work. It can, but it's got to be the right service.
 
access-air
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:47 am

KDCA Said:
With ORD only an hour and 25 minutes down the road I think all of these are a pipe dream.

I realize that... I was just making a hypothetic situation. I am not so dense as to think that It would ever come to pass.

What Rockford does need is not a bunch of flights to airline Hubs but nonstop flights to many O&D destinations.

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
roseflyer
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 12):
RFD needs to look at the NWA service and figure out what was the biggest connecting markets. Then try to get non-stop service to those markets, rather than connect. Follow it up with a major ad campaign in the far west suburbs, and it might work. It can, but it's got to be the right service.

I agree with you there. This is what brought back service to RFD to begin with when TMA came. Orlando and Las Vegas are the two highest O/D markets from RFD. They see service on Allegiant and Hooters Air. TMA unfortunately is gone since they liquidated, but RFD will have service to some basic destinations. However not many people want to go to Detroit. What is the O/D on that route? 2 or 3 passengers daily? Connections aren't enough to fully sustain the flight. Hopefully the traffic to DEN will help. Hooters is already serving that market, albeit with nondaily service.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
KarlB737
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:16 am

If you look at the article again that Mariner supplied you will find this interesting portion that could easily be missed:

"Dunn said the airport board approached Northwest to end the service"
 
loisencroach
Posts: 372
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:09 am

When I worked at RFD in July/August and saw the NW manifests, the majority of the flights consisted of Detroit-bound pax. A noticeable portion went to Rochester, NY and Boston, but not nearly enough to justify bypassing DTW and sending nonstops to those markets.

Strangely enough, I met alot of people that asked if the airport could get a nonstop to Lansing.
 
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Midway737
Posts: 129
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:13 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 5):
AirTran to Atlanta/Orlando and Beyond

I don't think so. Airtran already serve some airports in Illinois as well as Milwaukee-Mitchell. So it too much.

Southwest? hmm, not bad.

The question is how many gates it have?? will Southwest accomodate the flight service using gates??

Frontier have service into Bloomington/Normal so i guess that out of the question.


One thing might be interesting is Pan Am.

Allegiant should add more service there. I thought about Sun Country
 
ouboy79
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:35 pm

Yeah, EVERYONE in this thread seems to be overlooking the fact the AIRPORT approached Northwest to end the service - NOT the other way around.
 
ord
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:50 pm

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 18):
Yeah, EVERYONE in this thread seems to be overlooking the fact the AIRPORT approached Northwest to end the service - NOT the other way around.

Northwest was going to pull out in May 2006 when the revenue guarantee ended. The airport simply saved itself the guarantee money by having Northwest end the service a few months early.
 
access-air
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Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:32 am

Actually, it appears as if the NW service has been extended to middle of February according to my Apollo Computer here at the travel agency.
I think that it is horrible that airline hold airports hostage to serve them by extorting money from them. What the hell ever happended to advertizing and developing a market by actually going out and selling the product?
Airports should not have to pay ANY airline to serve it, the airline should desire to expand and be willing to build its business at its own expense. Plain and simple.

Access-Air

p.s. Frontier no longer served Bloomington/Normal Illinois......
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
roseflyer
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:55 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 20):
Airports should not have to pay ANY airline to serve it, the airline should desire to expand and be willing to build its business at its own expense. Plain and simple

If that was true, there would be no air service to RFD. The city definitely benefits from air service, and that is a justification for a city working so hard to keep it. RFD though seems a little over the top. They really got a shot in the face when they had no air service a few years ago and definitely turned up the heat in order to get it.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
KarlB737
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Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:55 am

Quoting Ouboy79 (Reply 18):
Yeah, EVERYONE in this thread seems to be overlooking the fact the AIRPORT approached Northwest to end the service - NOT the other way around.

Look At Reply 15
 
KarlB737
Posts: 2635
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 9:51 pm

RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:39 am

Courtesy: WIFR-TV

Airport Leaders Discouraged, Not Deflated After Northwest Leaves RFD

http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/2067032.html

Video Report:

http://ww2.wifr.com/global/video/pop...=info&playerVersion=1&rnd=37211572
 
FlyPeoria
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:30 am

RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:47 am

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 20):
p.s. Frontier no longer served Bloomington/Normal Illinois......

Correct...for nearly five years now, although the airport board would like to get Frontier [Jet Express] service to Denver restored.

DPJ
 
loisencroach
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:56 am

RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:39 am

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 23):
Airport Leaders Discouraged, Not Deflated After Northwest Leaves RFD

http://www.wifr.com/home/headlines/2067032.html

Video Report:

http://ww2.wifr.com/global/video/pop...11572

KarlB...thanks for always posting these WIFR and RRStar links.

I am curious who the LCC's are that Mike Dunn mentions.
 
loisencroach
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:56 am

RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:49 pm

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 24):

Speaking of Bloomington/Normal....

I was told about an Airport Director at Bloomington/Normal whom after having built a new terminal just prior to 9/11 was fired. Does anybody know who this was, and what he or she does now?
 
FlyPeoria
Posts: 427
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 7:30 am

RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:32 am

Quoting Loisencroach (Reply 26):
I was told about an Airport Director at Bloomington/Normal whom after having built a new terminal just prior to 9/11 was fired. Does anybody know who this was, and what he or she does now?

That was Mike LaPier. He wasn't fired though. In late 2004, he resigned so he could do some consulting work on the proposed third Chicago airport. He was criticized for that (while still serving as BMI director) and also the fact that he approved a plan for a second fixed-based aviation company to locate at the airport without any presentation before the board. There was some controversy because the new facility was said to be too close to an active runway (11-29). The present operator, Image Air, sued the airport to prevent the new operator from moving in. I believe the issue is still in court.

DPJ
 
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Midway737
Posts: 129
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:16 am

Now there was news that NW does indeed will stop flying between RFD and DTW.
 
access-air
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RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:34 pm

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 27):
That was Mike LaPier.

I thought I recognised this name......I was down in Bloomington in 1988 as I had flown down there the day after my birthday to geta tour of the Britt Airways Fairchild maintenance hangar....Anyway, I was audio tape recording the sounds and as Britt's FH-227C, N375NE was taxiing out to the end if the runway, you can hear a loud speaker on th tape and they are paging Mr Mike LaPier....How funny is that!?!?!?!
As for NW and Rockford, I checked once more in my Apollo GDS at work today and it still shows a schedule in the system for NW out of RFD to DTW until mid March....And I did check the Hooter Air wesbsite and apprently they are leaving because the airport board contatced United Express. so they are pulling all their service over one city pair....Sheesh, what numbskulls....

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
loisencroach
Posts: 372
Joined: Sun Sep 18, 2005 3:56 am

RE: NW Service From RFD To DTW

Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:53 pm

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 29):
....And I did check the Hooter Air wesbsite and apprently they are leaving because the airport board contatced United Express. so they are pulling all their service over one city pair....Sheesh, what numbskulls....

Would you believe that it was the first time they made any face changes to their website in six months!!?? They didn't upgrade their route map, they didn't post a press release of the Scranton service, but they post when they are pulling out of a market.

Not criticising...I just find it interesting.