EI321
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Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:55 pm

Before I start, may I make it clear that this info has NO CREDIBLE SOURCE and should be treated as pure speculation.

I read on an Irish aviation forum a post which interested me regarding EI's forthcomig l/h order.

One poster sounded like he might have some inside info, stating:

- EI will buy a new 332 for the new DBX route, and start a new Nth American route on its arrival.

- Another two 332s to be bought also, (making that 3 new 332s, which come to think of it, Dermot Mannion did actually mention in a recent interview the possibility of buying 3 new l/h aircraft in the short term)

- The oldest 330s to be replace by 350s, with Airbus providing plenty of 330 spares in the deal.

- EI are doubtful about the 787 and its use of carbon fibre, even though Boeing are offering a great deal. Apparently EI do like the 777 but feel a fleet swap from A330s would be very expensive, so Boeing are offering an intern 777 lease for free until 787s would arrive.
 
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PM
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:03 pm

This may only be speculation but it all has a credible ring to it. The order does seem Airbus's to lose and I doubt if they will.
 
atmx2000
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:05 pm

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
EI are doubtful about the 787 and its use of carbon fibre,

No doubt that Irish-American Airbus salesman is stoking those concerns.  Wink
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BestWestern
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Very credible, and most the likely outcome. EI likes the 330, and is a perfect aircraft for EI's operations. However, I wish they would bite the bullet and go 787 - a smaller aircraft will enable them to open more routes and increase frequencies. Mannion comes from EK - so probably has a dose of scepticism about the 787/350.

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
EI are doubtful about the 787 and its use of carbon fibre

EI takes risks with fleet orders - always has. It was the ETOPS proover for the A330, launch customer for the 747, one of the first jet operators in Europe. They will not be afraid of carbon. Jeez, they even ordered the original Boeing sonic cruiser.
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keesje
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:10 pm

Quoting EI321 (Thread starter):
EI are doubtful about the 787 and its use of carbon fibre, even though Boeing are offering a great deal

You'll be spanked for quoting that  Wink It an issue playing with all customers. the maintenance guarantee solution.
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kiwiandrew

RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:10 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
Jeez, they even ordered the original Boeing sonic cruiser.

I wasn't aware that anybody got as far as actually ordering the sonic cruiser - when did EI do that ?
 
BestWestern
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:11 pm

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 2):
Irish-American

Doesnt hold any weight in Ireland... every second american claims Irish ancestory, to the annoyance of the irish.
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EI321
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:20 pm

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
I wasn't aware that anybody got as far as actually ordering the sonic cruiser - when did EI do that ?

I dont think it was a firm order, just an intention for 2 frames. There was a great thread on the Boeing rival to concorde recently, try a search.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
EI takes risks with fleet orders - always has. It was the ETOPS proover for the A330, launch customer for the 747, one of the first jet operators in Europe.

Agreed, not to mention first operator of the Fokker 27, and third in europe for the 737. But whos to say this is the case now, EI is a different animal now than it was then.

Quoting Atmx2000 (Reply 2):
No doubt that Irish-American Airbus salesman is stoking those concerns

Im sure he was, but is that not the job of every good salesman?, to slate the competition? To be honest, the whole Irish-Anerican aspect holds no significance in Ireland these days.



[Edited 2005-12-06 14:26:05]
 
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:03 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 6):
Doesnt hold any weight in Ireland... every second american claims Irish ancestory, to the annoyance of the irish.

With all of the Irish immigrants here, they're just jealous because they got left behind. </tongue in cheek>

[Edited 2005-12-06 15:04:34]
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EI321
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:00 am

Has anybody working in Toulouse or Seattle heard anything on this order recently?
 
Shamrock330
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:59 am

Dont take me up as braging or anything but one of my family members has a pretty significant position in Aer Lingus... i was chatting to him on thursday and he told me that the final propositions by both Airbus and Boeing will be puth forth to Aer Lingus on wednesday of next week.

Apparently Mannion is a bit of a diplomat and couldnt make a decision if his life depended on it...he is still to be pushed in one direction or another so it sounds like everything is still to play for.
If i get any other "inside" info i will sure to post it here first.  Wink
 
pilot21
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:26 am

While the info. is very interesting, I'm not sure EI ordering a new A332 for the Dubai route, or ordering 2 more for new US destinations will help, given the current demand for A330's overall, what is the time-lead for a new aircraft these days, 2yrs? so we'd be looking at mid/end of 07 before the new A330's would come on stream, 1.5yrs into the Dubai service, and at least 6mths into the new US routes??

I'm playing devil's advocate here, not stirring it, so any additional info, on order-delivery time from Airbus on these things would be great

Have Boeing given any idea on what sort of cargo capacity the B787 will have, just DM has decided to focus on cargo again, especially on the long-haul side, so I assume any decisions on new fleet could be greatly affected by cargo capacity in the belly of these babies.

Just my 2 cents, I'd love to see EI order either of them, but think they'll stick with Airbus, although unless they get funding sorted out within the next yr, no orders are going to happen. Good old semi-states!
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kaitak
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:36 am

I think Boeing will have to work very hard to get this one; with a current 330 fleet and of course, the 320s on short haul, Airbus must have the inside track and it can't help Boeing that it is not going to be easy for them to get interim aircraft. That said, the thread on the Dublin Airport Forum suggests that Boeing is making a very aggressive play for the Aer Lingus deal.

To be honest, I'd be thrilled if they got Boeings; I think that if they're buying an aircraft which is going to serve them and build their market for at least a decade from 2010/2011, it needs more than a rehash of an existing design. I have no doubt that the A350 will serve EI well if chosen, but it's just more of the same. I also believe that the Boeings will be a better choice if EI wants to go long haul; EI could configure the 772/773 in a ten abreast layout, with decent IFE and that would be a big lifter of pax on new and existing routes.

Not to stray too far from the subject, but I'm getting the same impression about Mannion and I wondering in particular if he has the backbone to stand up the Taoiseach and govt and to fight EI's corner. I sincerely hope he does, but he needs to be prepared to be more up front in doing so.

The big threat facing EI at present is the Irish union movement, which is very hostile to privatisation and Aer Lingus needs access to new funding to pay for its new fleet. There are a lot of clouds on the horizon for EI, unfortunately.
 
N60659
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 11):
Have Boeing given any idea on what sort of cargo capacity the B787 will have, just DM has decided to focus on cargo again, especially on the long-haul side, so I assume any decisions on new fleet could be greatly affected by cargo capacity in the belly of these babies.

Not sure if this is what you are looking for (see pages 12 & 13):

http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/787brochure.pdf

Hope this helps.

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A319XFW
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:07 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 12):
EI could configure the 772/773 in a ten abreast layout, with decent IFE and that would be a big lifter of pax on new and existing routes.

Would EI be able to fill an aircraft the size of the 777? As if their largest now is the 330, then an aircraft the size of the 350/787 would be better suited?
 
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garpd
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:17 am

It stuns me how so many here are accepting forum gossip as credible. Some of your have been very quick to jump onto others for doing the same. I think this is very sad.

So EI have an Airbus fleet.... so what?! Experience tells me that that will have a lot less to do with an A350/787 order than many here think it will. Not to say it will have no influence, but the order will not hinge upon it.

And the feeble excuse of EI not sure about the composites is just that, feeble. IMO, an attempt to back up an argument which is obviously biased toward Airbus. Also, the fact that this is used even after the recent VERY public concerns about the A350 shaping up to Airbus' promises also leads me to beleive the originaly stated information is nothing more than wishfull thinking and at best a guess by an Airbus fan.

Personaly, I think its not worth discussing this with the information given considering the highly suspect source, but this is just my opinion.

[Edited 2005-12-06 19:50:24]
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RE: Possible Aer Lingus A350/787 Update

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:28 am

Quoting A319XFW (Reply 14):
Would EI be able to fill an aircraft the size of the 777? As if their largest now is the 330, then an aircraft the size of the 350/787 would be better suited?

I think they could, they have very full flights most of the time. I would like to see the A350 in the Aer Lingus fleet more then the 787, I think it is a better choice for EI. I just want the new aircraft ordered and the Privatisation to go ahead smoothly.