LUVRSW
Topic Author
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Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:33 pm

http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/5765672.html

"If these draconian cuts are enacted by our overpaid management, it would turn us into the Wal-Mart of the airline industry," Tom Wychor, chairman of the Mesaba pilots union, said late Monday night.
 
bahadir
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:47 pm

People should be ashamed of themselves for:
- Offering low low wages , even lower than McD, Burger King to pilots.
- Some pilots steping on each other so that they can get that "dream job".
Earthbound misfit I
 
mikkel777
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:21 pm

This is not a good development. Airlines might end up getting the only pilots that can afford flying for nada, not the best pilots available. Hope (?) this doesn't backfire too bad, but I will not be surprised.

Hopefully it will be more "pilots marked", not just "mgt marked" like today, someday in the not too distant future. I think Europe is heading that way, self-financed TR hopefully will be something in the past! In my country, things are going the right way!
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:23 pm

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 1):
People should be ashamed of themselves for:
- Offering low low wages , even lower than McD, Burger King to pilots.

********************************************************
Mesaba pilots earn annual salaries of $22,000 to $97,000. First officers, who are on the lower end of the pay scale, are being targeted for a 17 percent pay cut.
***********************************************************

These are not exactly McD & Burger King wages........
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Tornado82
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:33 pm

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 3):
Mesaba pilots earn annual salaries of $22,000

For those green f/o's making $22k, take away 17% and you've got $18,260. The equivalent of working a $9/hr job 40 hours a week. Not quite McDonalds (although McDonalds' in high-rent districts have been known to pay over $10/hr) but definitely Walmart wages at best... and not the wages a pilot should be making. That said, there are many other fields where a 1st year employee is making sub-$20k, even with a college degree, and it's BS they have to take those salaries in their fields too.
 
LUVRSW
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:39 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 4):
For those green f/o's making $22k, take away 17% and you've got $18,260. The equivalent of working a $9/hr job 40 hours a week. Not quite McDonalds (although McDonalds' in high-rent districts have been known to pay over $10/hr) but definitely Walmart wages at best... and not the wages a pilot should be making. That said, there are many other fields where a 1st year employee is making sub-$20k, even with a college degree, and it's BS they have to take those salaries in their fields too.

Excellent comment Tornado.
 
NWBOS
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:20 am

NW got a 19% paycut from the IAM. Some positions would have payed less than minimum wage at that rate. It is truly sickening that those on the low end of the scale are being asked for the same percentage. I just don't see how this is fair. When you are making $7/hour, 19% is probably all of your disposable income. 19% as a top scale pilot means you better think about putting one of your time-shares on the market. The percentages should have been scaled for the same cost savings but a greater sacrifice at the high end. Those that have more can afford to give more.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:21 am

And they just got a nice new contract too....all that hard work  Sad

Quoting LUVRSW (Thread starter):
it would turn us into the Wal-Mart of the airline industry

I thought that was WN? (At least in terms of quality  Wink)

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 4):
That said, there are many other fields where a 1st year employee is making sub-$20k, even with a college degree, and it's BS they have to take those salaries in their fields too.

Spot-on Tornado. Tell me the last time a shelf stocker at Wally World had to put up with the lifestyle of a pilot, not to mention the countless responsibility. What's more appaling is the mention of keeping the executive bonuses....DL pulled this shit a few years back, it's plain theft.

All the best for Mesaba MEC...someone needs to show management that labor is not an ATM.

DeltaGuy
"The cockpit, what is it?" "It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilot sits, but that's not importan
 
Tornado82
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:38 am

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 7):
Tell me the last time a shelf stocker at Wally World had to put up with the lifestyle of a pilot, not to mention the countless responsibility. What's more appaling is the mention of keeping the executive bonuses....DL pulled this shit a few years back, it's plain theft.

The heck with that even. When was the last time a shelf stocker at Walmart had to pay back their college/training loans?? If you went to college and are stocking shelves at Walmart for more than 6 months after graduation... chances are it's that person's own fault as much as anyone else's.
 
aviatortj
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:05 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 4):
For those green f/o's making $22k, take away 17% and you've got $18,260.

Right back to what they nearly went on strike for a few Januarys ago.  Sad
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 4):
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 3):
Mesaba pilots earn annual salaries of $22,000

For those green f/o's making $22k, take away 17% and you've got $18,260. The equivalent of working a $9/hr job 40 hours a week. Not quite McDonalds (although McDonalds' in high-rent districts have been known to pay over $10/hr) but definitely Walmart wages at best... and not the wages a pilot should be making. That said, there are many other fields where a 1st year employee is making sub-$20k, even with a college degree, and it's BS they have to take those salaries in their fields too.

I like how you focused on the pilots making the lowest amount, pretty sneaky if you have ask me.

My opinion, a pay cut sucks for anybody, no matter how much money they are making, but, lets at least be honest with eachother.

********************************************************
Mesaba pilots earn annual salaries of $22,000 to $97,000. First officers, who are on the lower end of the pay scale, are being targeted for a 17 percent pay cut.
***********************************************************
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:25 am

Quoting NWBOS (Reply 6):
When you are making $7/hour, 19% is probably all of your disposable income. 19% as a top scale pilot means you better think about putting one of your time-shares on the market.

Ah yes, the ever-popular class-envy argument.  sarcastic 

"You make more than me - so it's more fair that you take a bigger paycut than me, your highness!"

Spare me.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Tornado82
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:27 am

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 10):
I like how you focused on the pilots making the lowest amount, pretty sneaky if you have ask me.

Who's being sneaky? They're losing 17%, it says right there in the article! It's not like I stretched the truth or massaged numbers that didn't exist, there will be guys and gals making $18,260 to f/o Saabs, period. $18,260 can stock shelves at Walmart, and not have all those loans for the flight schools to pay back. My loans are only $20k and I'm paying $229 a month for my education. Thankfully I'm making alot more than $18,260, but I couldn't imagine paying back $60k in loans to flight schools, only making $18,260, even if I'd make considerably more a year or two later.

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 10):
but, lets at least be honest with eachother.

I am, I've told no lies.
 
LUVRSW
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:56 am

What really sucks is Mesaba used BK as an excuse to get even with the pilots who got that pay raise in Jan 2004. They saw an opportunity and took it. Another factor is that due to NW parking the Avros and Saabs, a lot of captains were bumped down to FO's...now they will get shafted again. I wonder what their overall cut will end up being...from Captain down to FO minus 17%.

Tornado did nothing sneaky Mike...must be a misperception.
 
drewwright
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:00 am

I think it is sad that I make more as a flight attendant than some first officers I fly with. This is not to say that I make too much but that they make too little. What a sad state of affairs...
 
juventus
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting Bahadir (Reply 1):
People should be ashamed of themselves for:
- Offering low low wages , even lower than McD, Burger King to pilots.
- Some pilots steping on each other so that they can get that "dream job".

Mesa started this disgusting tradition.
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting LUVRSW (Thread starter):
"If these draconian cuts are enacted by our overpaid management, it would turn us into the Wal-Mart of the airline industry," Tom Wychor, chairman of the Mesaba pilots union, said late Monday night.

What does he mean? Profitable? Growing? With more applicants than jobs, and nobody on furlough?

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 8):
When was the last time a shelf stocker at Walmart had to pay back their college/training loans??

Who is at fault? The pilot is the one who chose the profession. If you went into training and college knowing the job lifestyle and that it would take a long time to recoup your investment, then you have nobody to blame but yourself. The laws of the market have created too many pilots chasing too few jobs. That being the case, you are not going to recoup your investment quickly. Thats not going to change.

Quoting LUVRSW (Reply 13):
What really sucks is Mesaba used BK as an excuse to get even with the pilots who got that pay raise in Jan 2004.

Not just the pilots, but all labor at Mesaba. Flight Ops and Inflight mgmt were slashed at field level to protect the G.O. Mesaba went into bankruptcy with more assets than liabilities, its on the CH11 website. They were not bankrupt when they filed. Now, as far as we know NWA hasn't said anything about our future as an Airlink partner. But John Jinglepants is talking like its adone deal. We don't know what NWA wants, but we are all giving til it hurts.

Capt. Ed has already said that any fleet scenario going forward has the Avro leaving by June or July. But theres no idea about the rest of the fleet, or we are not being told if there has been a decision....
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:42 am

It's unfortunate to see this happening over and over in so many industries. As long as there are people who can and will do the work for less, it's not going to work to demand more. I wonder how long it takes to work one's way up from the rather poor starting salary into the much better middle and upper ranges.

Where are most of these people located geographically?
 
skibum9
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:45 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 4):
For those green f/o's making $22k, take away 17% and you've got $18,260. The equivalent of working a $9/hr job 40 hours a week.



Quoting Juventus (Reply 15):
Mesa started this disgusting tradition.

Let's not forget, that at one time, the regionals actually charged new pilots to fly for them. The mentality was that these pilots were only at the regionals to build hours to eventually move on to a major. As such, the charge was to cover the training costs. Many a pilot during those days were on food stamps.

Also, in the current business models we must remember that the regionals are only suppliers to the majors, and not really an independent airline. They don't have much of the cost structures associated with an airline, like reservation systems, call centers, fleet costs, etc. Due to the fact that they have little control of their revenue streams, which are established in the contract between the major and regional, and they have little cost areas to drive efficiencies, they really have no choice but to drive costs out of labor to make any sort of profit. Thus the Walmart mentality. When a regional tries to change its model to be more of an airline, history has proven it to be very difficult...case in point...Flyi.
Tailwinds!!!
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:06 am

Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 18):
Due to the fact that they have little control of their revenue streams, which are established in the contract between the major and regional

In fact the regional had better control, because they didn't have to worry about filling seats. They were getting paid anyway. And paid well. Once the majors started filing CH11, the rules changed, because those contracts could suddenly be thrown out.
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:14 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 12):
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 10):
I like how you focused on the pilots making the lowest amount, pretty sneaky if you have ask me.

Who's being sneaky? They're losing 17%, it says right there in the article! It's not like I stretched the truth or massaged numbers that didn't exist, there will be guys and gals making $18,260 to f/o Saabs, period. $18,260 can stock shelves at Walmart, and not have all those loans for the flight schools to pay back. My loans are only $20k and I'm paying $229 a month for my education. Thankfully I'm making alot more than $18,260, but I couldn't imagine paying back $60k in loans to flight schools, only making $18,260, even if I'd make considerably more a year or two later.

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 10):
but, lets at least be honest with eachother.

I am, I've told no lies.

No sir, you keep focusing on the pilots at the low end of the wage spectrum. So, what you actually mean, is that some of the pilots making $22,000 will take a 17% pay cut, not all, as there are some pilots that are pulling in higher salaries....

********************************************************
Mesaba pilots earn annual salaries of $22,000 to $97,000. First officers, who are on the lower end of the pay scale, are being targeted for a 17 percent pay cut.
***********************************************************
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AASTEW
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:49 am

Where are all the A.net ENTHUSIAST, that always say it's better than no job if THE EMPLOYEES you don't take a paycut? Speak up A.net ENTHUSIAST!

When I here of a regional airline employee taking paycuts it's really sad what this industry is coming to. It's all in the name of LOW FARES. Wake up America you are traveling on an airplane with highly skilled employees. You pay for what you get.

AASTEW
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:00 am

Quoting AASTEW (Reply 21):
When I here of a regional airline employee taking paycuts it's really sad what this industry is coming to. It's all in the name of LOW FARES. Wake up America you are traveling on an airplane with highly skilled employees. You pay for what you get.

Why the need to blame the general public? If they want to go from point A to point B, they buy a ticket, if they can not buy a ticket, they don't travel, pretty easy.

If somebody does want to travel from point A to point because they feel it is tooo expsensive, that is the the consumers choice.

Hey, I think the new Xbox is tooo expensive, so, I won't buy it, YET, other people not only purchased the item, they also waited on long lines.

People are going to pay more money for a ticket, because you feel the pilots should be paid a higher rate, the market drives the ticket prices.
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vapar8
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:05 am

It sucks people go to school and owe 60000 + and they expect them to make 18,000. Most of the time they can not even get this job out of school they have to build up more hours to get that. Then everyone bitches when they make good money.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:12 am

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 20):
No sir, you keep focusing on the pilots at the low end of the wage spectrum.

Yeah, your point?

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 20):
all, as there are some pilots that are pulling in higher salaries....

And I'm pulling a lower salary than my boss whos been here 5 years longer than me. Once again, what's your point Captain Obvious? The fact that the guy sitting beside him is making more doesn't help pay that first year f/o's rent, training/college loans, nor carpayment; just like my boss isn't helping me pay my rent, college loans, nor car payment.

The new range will be $18,260-$80,510 if that somehow makes you sleep better tonight. I'm willing to bet that the median will be WELL below the mean in this case, especially with the number of Avro guys getting knocked down the ladder. Don't forget, that $80,510 is most definitely a high-seniority Avro captain. Well, in a few months when there are no Avros, NOBODY will be making that $80,510. Does anybody have the breakout for what a Saab capt. makes?
 
MidnightMike
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:28 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 24):
Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 20):
No sir, you keep focusing on the pilots at the low end of the wage spectrum.

Yeah, your point?

That was all that I was trying to get across, that not every pilot is paid at the rate you kept referring to, $80,000 is a far cry from Burger King wages, but yes, if a pilot is making $22,000 & takes a pay cut, that hurts....

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 24):
And I'm pulling a lower salary than my boss whos been here 5 years longer than me. Once again, what's your point Captain Obvious? The fact that the guy sitting beside him is making more doesn't help pay that first year f/o's rent, training/college loans, nor carpayment; just like my boss isn't helping me pay my rent, college loans, nor car payment

For that, you have my sympathy, it takes tremendous amount of patience to stick it out that long hoping to make more money in the future. I will not begin to second guess your decision, which was yours to make to stay for the 5 years.

As far as the name calling, if that makes you feel better, go for it....
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MD88Captain
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:41 am

The definition of an a##hole is somebody making $1 more than me. That is what drives the glee that follows a pilot taking a paycut.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting MidnightMike (Reply 25):
For that, you have my sympathy, it takes tremendous amount of patience to stick it out that long hoping to make more money in the future. I will not begin to second guess your decision, which was yours to make to stay for the 5 years.

I'm not complaining about my pay. What I'm saying is she's been here 5 years longer. She deserves more money than me. It's simple seniority, and since we are the only 2 in the dept, she is my de facto "boss," just how in the 2-man flight deck the captain is the boss of the f/o. 5 years from now I'll be making what she is in her 5th year today if all goes as planned, and if I don't leave here first for personal issues (i.e. marriage and relocation, etc.)... but she'll still be making more than me because she'll be 5 years ahead of me still. Fortunately my business is more profitable than airlines, as our industry as a whole is more stable. I don't quite have my first year in yet here, so I should be the low man on the totem pole. In 99.9% of businesses in the world... if 2 people are doing the same job type (in this Mesaba case, flying Saabs), and one got hired 5 years earlier, they're making significantly more (even if they're both still f/o's). In a fair world those $18k guys will be at $30+k in 5 years... but unfortunately I don't think Mesaba is the place that will happen, because they're going to be having far more pilots than planes shortly with the Avros going away.


If anyone has a breakdown of Saab f/o in say 1st-5th years, then Saab Capt, Avro f/o, Avro Capt and is willing to share... that might be quite interesting to see just how many people would be at the top half or bottom half of that pay scale. thanks

[Edited 2005-12-06 22:52:17]
 
RogerThat
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting AASTEW (Reply 21):
When I here of a regional airline employee taking paycuts it's really sad what this industry is coming to. It's all in the name of LOW FARES. Wake up America you are traveling on an airplane with highly skilled employees. You pay for what you get.

Not highly skilled in the use of the English language, or so I HEAR.
 
DCrawley
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:36 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 16):
The laws of the market have created too many pilots chasing too few jobs.

I disagree. There are more opportunities today as a pilot than ever. There are very few job offerings within the US legacy carriers right now (although AS has been hiring), but every where else in the world they need pilots more than ever. The Middle East and Asia have more aircraft than pilots who can fly them from their respective communities, so lots of their pilots are contract pilots from elsewhere (including many from the US). Have you seen how many Chinese pilots are being trained in the US right now for jobs? If you open your eyes to a global view, you will see that there are MANY jobs available for pilots that pay MUCH better than most of the ones in the US (except for a NetJets BBJ pilot I know who's retired from AS.. makes quite a nice salary).

I sure wish I could be up in the air with y'all out there, hope it works out for you Mesa pilots!

-d
"Weather at our destination is 50 degrees with some broken clouds, but they'll try to have them fixed before we arrive."
 
Tornado82
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:51 am

Quoting DCrawley (Reply 29):
hope it works out for you Mesa pilots!

Mesaba... but I'm sure Mesa appreciates your sentiments too.  Wink
 
LUVRSW
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:58 am

Here's another nice tidbit from the article...

Wychor said Mesaba plans to retain multiple bonus programs for managers. "We believe they could give themselves a mock pay cut and then make up for them in bonuses," he said.


Nice Spanjers, nice.
 
LUVRSW
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:20 pm

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 30):
Mesaba... but I'm sure Mesa appreciates your sentiments too.

Good One
 
apodino
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:02 pm

I am seeing what is going on in the regional industry and it makes my blood boil. The race to the bottom because regional carriers have to underbid everyone. Eventually the pay will get so bad, that no one will want to fly for the regionals, everyone will go the corporate learjet route or something like that. And then you will either get very low quality pilots happy to take any job they can get (Which is sad), or pay will have to go up just to get new people. If you have the latter, you have less qualified people, which is a greater risk safety wise in my opinion. And you have less qualified flight attendants, who should be looking after your safety, dispatchers turnover at a high rate, and you can't get enough experienced people maintaining operational control (A concept that most regional airlines don't get in my opinion which is pathetic). This has got to stop, and unfortunately, I don't see it stopping until either Alpa starts blacklisting everybody, or until we have a tragedy.

And I partly blame the travelling public. When an airline ticket costs less today than it did in 1985, even with all the inflation, something is seriously wrong with the system. The public has been demanding low fares, yet complain when their flights are delayed, and they don't get good service, and the landings are rough. Well public, maybe if you would be willing to shell out that extra ten bucks, the airlines could attract more competent people so these things wouldn't happen.
 
toltommy
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:04 pm

Quoting DCrawley (Reply 29):
I disagree. There are more opportunities today as a pilot than ever.

Perhaps. But if you are correct, then it speaks to the problem of seniority based pay and work rules. The 10 year Avro CA at Mesaba doesn't want to leave for those other opportunities, because he/she will have to sacrafice pay and quality of life to start over someplace new. The pilot with 10 years experience (and how many thousands of hours) will still be junior to the pimply-faced kid fresh out school, but in the class ahead of him. And he'll be making the same pay.
 
LUVRSW
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Thu Dec 08, 2005 12:18 am

Quoting TOLtommy (Reply 34):
Perhaps. But if you are correct, then it speaks to the problem of seniority based pay and work rules. The 10 year Avro CA at Mesaba doesn't want to leave for those other opportunities, because he/she will have to sacrafice pay and quality of life to start over someplace new. The pilot with 10 years experience (and how many thousands of hours) will still be junior to the pimply-faced kid fresh out school, but in the class ahead of him. And he'll be making the same pay.

Dead on.
 
LUVRSW
Topic Author
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RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:46 pm

Here's another article
http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/5772296.html

Interesting info in this:

Meanwhile, the creditors committee in the Mesaba bankruptcy wants to probe financial connections between Mesaba and its parent, MAIR Holdings, which is not in bankruptcy. The key creditors, including aviation companies and Mesaba pilots and flight attendants unions, have asked the judge to let them subpoena Foley and other top MAIR executives.

"For years, the Mesaba pilots have been extremely concerned about the uplifting of cash from our company to a separate suite of executives" at Minneapolis-based MAIR, said Tom Wychor, chairman of the Mesaba branch of the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA).

Now the creditors have united in seeking more information about the financial relationship between MAIR and Mesaba. Minnesota Twins owner Carl Pohlad serves as chairman of the MAIR board of directors. All of MAIR's profit has been generated by its main subsidiary, Mesaba, because tiny Big Sky Airlines, its other subsidiary, has lost money since it was acquired in 2002, Wychor said.

Foley, during an investors conference, said MAIR has "over $115 million in cash and investments" and "minimal long-term debt." He emphasized that MAIR did not file for bankruptcy but has offered to provide up to $35 million of debtor-in-possession financing to Mesaba.

Wychor argues that MAIR and Mesaba are for all practical purposes one entity, and that the MAIR executives are "playing a shell game."

Pilots who fly Mesaba's three plane types are being asked to take 13 to 19 percent pay cuts. Wychor said he has not seen any financial data to justify any level of cutbacks for pilots or other Mesaba employees.

But Foley said that lower wages are a reality in the airline industry. "There are more than enough people willing to work at the work rules and wage rates that Mesaba has proposed," Foley said.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:13 pm




Quoting Apodino (Reply 33):
Eventually the pay will get so bad, that no one will want to fly for the regionals, everyone will go the corporate learjet route or something like that. And then you will either get very low quality pilots happy to take any job they can get (Which is sad),



"Very low quality" pilots tend not to pass checkrides, meet practical test standards, and get hired by airlines. Pilot pay may well deteriorate even further to horrible levels, but the standards for pilot training and certification will most certainly not follow suit.






Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 27):
If anyone has a breakdown of Saab f/o in say 1st-5th years, then Saab Capt, Avro f/o, Avro Capt and is willing to share... that might be quite interesting to see just how many people would be at the top half or bottom half of that pay scale.



What I'd like to see is the current and past pay and bonus history of management. Pay cuts happen, but it seems only fair that the sacrifice be spread more evenly across the company, instead of concentrating them on one or two specific groups.




2H4


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Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:29 pm

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 37):
What I'd like to see is the current and past pay and bonus history of management. Pay cuts happen, but it seems only fair that the sacrifice be spread more evenly across the company, instead of concentrating them on one or two specific groups.

Agreed, but that's a dead horse that's been already beaten up at every airline not named Southwest. If it hasn't changed yet, I doubt it will any time soon.  Yeah sure
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Mesaba Pilots Asked To Take 19% Paycut

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:37 pm




Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 38):
Agreed, but that's a dead horse that's been already beaten up at every airline not named Southwest. If it hasn't changed yet, I doubt it will any time soon.



Oh, make no mistake, I'm not optimistic it will actually happen...just thinking about how nice it would be.

 Wink




2H4


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