Leskova
Topic Author
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BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:42 am

With the introduction of the summer timetable 2006, BA will cut two LGW-routes to Germany: MUC and HAJ will no longer be served from Gatwick, which leaves HAJ without any BA-flights to London; flights to MAN and BHX will both be continued from HAJ.

Source: an eMail Newsletter I just received from BA...

So, after years of ups and downs with BA and HAJ, BA "finally" cuts all LON-HAJ connections and, thus, leaves HAJ to Star Alliance and Skyteam airlines.

Regards,
Frank

P.S.: Forgot to mention: MUC-LHR will be increased from 5 to 6 daily flights at the same time.

[Edited 2005-12-06 16:45:56]
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LGWspeedbird
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:03 am

How stupid is that, to pull two german routes for the summer when the world cup is going on.

HAJ is used quite a bit by business men and army personel. wonder why?although it could be for the introduction of the new routes KEF, turkey etc.

LGWspeedbird
upcoming flights LHR-LAX-HNL-SFO-LHR
 
RJ100
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:07 am

Seems like they are going to cut Heathrow to Cologne (3x daily) too.
Can someone confirm?

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
BestWestern
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:10 am

London - Hannover is doing really badly at the moment, with both BD and BA cutting frequencies and loads falling even faster.

Next summers schedule for LON HAJ is now just twice daily A319, with a sole ER4 on saturdays.

MUC is also a difficult market to make money on, even with the relative absence of significant LCC carriers (just EZY)
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Leskova
Topic Author
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:12 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 2):
Seems like they are going to cut Heathrow to Cologne (3x daily) too.

Indeed - I just reread the eMail, and indeed, CGN-LHR is being cut as well.

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
BestWestern
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:13 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 2):
Seems like they are going to cut Heathrow to Cologne (3x daily) too.
Can someone confirm?

Gone also. Now just LH with x3 daily CR1's Huge effect of LCC carriers to CGN
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acefreighter
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:22 am

the Cologne route has been suffering since the German government moved from Bonn to Berlin. With the reductions in the British Army presence in the area, a lot of the higher yielding business has gone.
 
VS747SPUR
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:30 am

Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 1):
How stupid is that, to pull two german routes for the summer when the world cup is going on.

I though that too, especially with the Munich routes ? Is there a chance that BA will however have more flights when the world cup is on ?

VS747SPUR
Fly DL
 
monkeyboi
Posts: 447
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:09 am

From BA intranet:
BA to suspend three German routes

Three German routes are to be suspended by British Airways because they are no longer profitable.

The routes affected are Gatwick to Hanover, Gatwick to Munich and Heathrow to Cologne.

The airline will continue to operate seven flights a day from the UK to Munich with the Heathrow service increasing from five to six a day.

BA will also maintain three flights a day from the UK to Hanover from Birmingham and Manchester airports.

No flights will operate from Cologne, which will mean the closure of the BA operation there.

BA operates 63 daily direct services from five destinations in the UK to seven in Germany.

The suspensions will take place in the summer 2006 schedule, which starts on March 26.

The airline has also announced that flights to Riga will move from London Heathrow to London Gatwick in March 2006.
 
Shamrock_747
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:37 am

Quite a surprise to see these services suspended. The decision will not have been taking without thorough evaluation though. It's worth remembering that a full flights do to necessarily mean a profitable operation.
 
runway23
Posts: 1947
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:42 am

It is becoming quite annoying to see all high yielding BA business routes vanish from LGW. Certainly a market exists as competition is showing and in my mind the timing of leaving these two routes is quite foolish especially with the World Cup really near.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:51 am

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 10):
Certainly a market exists as competition is showing and in my mind the timing of leaving these two routes is quite foolish especially with the World Cup really near.



Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 1):
How stupid is that, to pull two german routes for the summer when the world cup is going on.

and a short term event like the world cup is going to make the route profitable all year round ? I don't think so . By all means , if there is a short term opportunity to make money then BA should offer some supplementary services during that period provided of course that they can run at sufficient yield to justify committing the a/c - but airlines do not plan their long term schedules around short term events
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 1):
and army personnel. Wonder why?

This is because the US and UK army/airforce have two HUGE bases in Germany and therefore, the military personnel have the choice of a ride in a Hercules, or a public flights, hmm  scratchchin 

As with the flights, I suspect that BA will send out a few 747's and/or 777's like they did with the Portugal euro cup in back in 2004.

Wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
A342
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:30 am

MUC-LGW cut !  Wow!

That´s sad, lots of connection opportunites from LGW like GIB or BDA are gone now. I know LGW is not nearly as important as LHR, but still. What about using smaller aircraft instead of the 737, ERJ-145 perhaps ?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
mhodgson
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
That´s sad, lots of connection opportunites from LGW like GIB or BDA are gone now. I know LGW is not nearly as important as LHR, but still. What about using smaller aircraft instead of the 737, ERJ-145 perhaps ?

GIB is served from LHR, though BDA isn't.

I don't think using an ERJ is possible, as the ERJs are owned by Citiexpress and not mainline BA.
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MAS777
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:30 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
MUC is also a difficult market to make money on, even with the relative absence of significant LCC carriers (just EZY)

My partner works for BMW-RR and they have their main RR car plant in West Sussex. He flies LGW-MUC almost fortnightly and LGW-MUC is often full of BMW and RR management teams flying almost daily some even on daytrips. His fares are almost always charged at full-fare so it does seem odd that they are losing money on this route...
 
vfw614
Posts: 3194
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:22 am

Interesting.

Last summer we had on the CGN-LON market:

CGN-LGW 4x daily (2 U2, 2 4U)
CGN-STN 2x daily (4U)
CGN-LHR 6x daily (3x BA, 3x LH)


Next summer it will be :

CGN-LGW 1x daily (U2)
CGN-STN 2x daily (4U)
CGN-LHR 3x daily (LH)


And more dramatic if you compare the available seats:

2005: approx. 1.350 seats per day
2006: approx. 600 seats per day


Wonder if at least Easyjet will up its frequency again. 1 daily into LGW is quite useless.
 
madhatter
Posts: 223
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:47 am

Well we now know where the slots for their new destinations from LGW next March are coming from then! Noticed that their Bucharest route from LHR has gone double daily from next spring. Also their Seattle route is increasing to 10 x weekly out of LHR and Vancouver is growing to 13 x weekly.
 
HT
Posts: 5857
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:34 pm

In contrast to BA withdrawing LON-services form HAJ, AB is going double daily to STN from HAJ M-F.

BA´s route policy from HAJ hasn´t been a good one in recent years:
First they moved away from LHR, thus disabling a lot of onward connections ("who wants to connect between LGW & LHR and also pay for the transfer on his own" ?!).
Then they put their (affiliate´s) slow and cramped ATR-72s on HAJ - LGW which was a horrible experience: a 2h flight which I endured only once.
Then after the ATR-72 had been withdrawn from use (wfu) BA put B737´s on the route w/o promoting this, while almost doubling the number of availble seats.
Now they withdraw LON-HAJ completely.
Sad !

Hopefully BD will get some more pax onto their flights, but taking BD´s erroneous route-ploicy into account, this probably would be the perfect time for BD to cut their service to HAJ, too Big grin

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 12):
Quoting LGWspeedbird (Reply 1):
and army personnel. Wonder why?

This is because the US and UK army/airforce have two HUGE bases in Germany and therefore, the military personnel have the choice of a ride in a Hercules, or a public flights, hmm

Though I´m not getting the point of this, HAJ remains as the main airport for RAF flights into northern Germany.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
BBJII
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:20 pm

Would it be feesable and realistic for BACX to take up these routes ex LCY ?

Would these routes attract a good level of C pax and maintain reasonable loads for the RJ100 or BAe 146?




 wave 
Remember: The Bird Hit You, You Didn't Hit The Bird.....
 
HT
Posts: 5857
Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 6:20 am

RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:30 pm

Quoting BBJII (Reply 19):
Would it be feesable and realistic for BACX to take up these routes ex LCY ?

Would these routes attract a good level of C pax and maintain reasonable loads for the RJ100 or BAe 146?

For HAJ - LCY I don´t see a market with survivable load/yield.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
BestWestern
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:17 pm

Quoting Runway23 (Reply 10):
It is becoming quite annoying to see all high yielding BA business routes vanish from LGW

If they were high yield / high load, they would still be operating. However LON CGN yield was decimated by low cost carriers.
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vfw614
Posts: 3194
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:40 pm

Quoting BBJII (Reply 19):
Would it be feesable and realistic for BACX to take up these routes ex LCY ?

CGN-LCY has been tried in the pre-LCC era in the mid-1990s by Augsburg Airways. Did not last for long.

MUC-LCY is already operated by Cirrus Airlines and they are struggling to fill a 31seater.
 
Leskova
Topic Author
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:52 pm

Quoting HT (Reply 18):
BA´s route policy from HAJ hasn´t been a good one in recent years:
First they moved away from LHR, thus disabling a lot of onward connections ("who wants to connect between LGW & LHR and also pay for the transfer on his own" ?!).

Aside from that, before, when they still served LHR from HAJ, they had absolutely ridiculous flying times: one early morning (07:00) flight on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, a noon flight that constantly changed between something like 12:00 and 14:00 operating (I think) daily, and a late evening flight leaving HAJ around 21:00-something on Tuesdays (which was also the reason for no early flight going on Wednesday).

For a while, LH and BD had three daily flights HAJ-LHR, daily being Monday to Sunday, with smaller equipment being used on weekends; the loads were good, but I guess the yields weren't brilliant.

But now? I guess most of my family and friends will end up on AB from now on - at least they're increasing frequencies from HAJ, the service is usually better than on BA, BD or LH, and the fares are lower.

Doesn't make the choice too hard if you're just flying to London.

But it sucks if you're connecting...

Regards,
Frank
Smile - it confuses people!
 
richardw
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:26 pm

Are we likely to see AB fly into LGW or is it just a little too expensive?
 
BestWestern
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:35 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 24):
Are we likely to see AB fly into LGW or is it just a little too expensive?

Air Berlin seem to be focusing on Stansted, with their domestic flights.
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AIR MALTA
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:38 pm

Well I think that we have to get ready for other cuts in the near future. BA seems to favour large cities from LHR and secondary and holiday destinations from LGW. And I think that the situation at LHR is a handicap for BA. They can not add more flights... They only can axe routes and replace them.
Riga is being moved back to LGW to allow a second daily flight to Bucharest from LHR.

What I can not understand is that Ba or GT are serving Malaga 3 times daily from LHR when it is a holiday destination. They can move the flights to LGW and add more Business routes to LHR.
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richardw
Posts: 3142
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:52 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 26):
What I can not understand is that Ba or GT are serving Malaga 3 times daily from LHR when it is a holiday destination. They can move the flights to LGW and add more Business routes to LHR.

I think they must have a good number of Club class passengers on this route or they wouldn't bother, same goes for GIB. AGP and GIB are also served from LGW and I think a bit of a W is sometimes done, ie LGW-AGP-LHR-AGP-LGW.
 
HT
Posts: 5857
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RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:52 pm

Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 26):
What I can not understand is that Ba or GT are serving Malaga 3 times daily from LHR when it is a holiday destination.

With Malaga itself being the 5th largest city of Spain, there should be quite an amount of business traffic ...
LH serves AGP daily from FRA (in seasons of high demand LH even used a A306 for this route on selected days).
Also AF and AZ serve AGP.

Furthermore, we may not only look at P2P-traffic here, but quite an amount of onward connections that are offered through LHR and the other likes.
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
 
aswissinmad
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:56 pm

RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:03 pm

I see in Galileo that the LON-HAJ route is already served by quite a few airlines :

QUICK SCHEDULE INFORMATION 15JUN06-29JUN06 0001-2359<
LONDON-HANOVER<
EFF DISC MTWTFSS BRD OFF DEP ARR FLIGHT<
- - 123456. LHR HAJ 0640 0910 BD 815<
- - 123456. LHR HAJ 0640 0910 LH6611<
OPERATED BY BRITISH MIDLAND AIRWAYS<
- - 12345.. STN HAJ 0730 0950 AB8197<
NO RESERVATION FOR U-CLASS<
- - .....6. STN HAJ 1130 1350 AB8197<
NO RESERVATION FOR U-CLASS<
- - 12345.7 LHR HAJ 1715 1945 BD 819<
- - 12345.7 LHR HAJ 1715 1945 LH6615<
OPERATED BY BRITISH MIDLAND AIRWAYS<
- - 12345.7 STN HAJ 2030 2250 AB8423<
NO RESERVATION FOR U-CLASS<
ENTER SIE LON HAJ FOR EQUIPMENT INFO<
>

But none from LGW nevertheless... must be hard to compete with AB and their excellent service (for a LCC).
 
richardw
Posts: 3142
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:07 pm

Well only 2 airlines BD and AB not a few really.
 
aswissinmad
Posts: 125
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:56 pm

RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:08 pm

Quoting Richardw (Reply 30):
Well only 2 airlines BD and AB not a few really.

Yeah you're right sorry .... oooops
 
richardw
Posts: 3142
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: BA To Cut LGW-MUC And LGW-HAJ

Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:55 pm

England play a match in June in Cologne in the World Cup, U2 have already put their flights on sale, wonder if BA will put some special flights on.

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