jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
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Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:53 am

I know that this has been discussed for the future of the European flights out of PHX on US, but if they wanted to start the route let's say this summer would the 333 make it from PHX to FRA?
 
tzadik
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:03 am

don't really know all the technical specs as I don't fancy anything airbus, but I do know that Aer Lingus uses the A330 from LAX to DUB so I'd assume that the A330 would have the range for PHX to FRA... I know the B767 certainly does.
 
ei2ksea
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:04 am

Aer Lingus find it hard going with the A333 for DUB/SNN to ORD and dont even try on DUB to LAX (thats solely A332 territory) so i'd say US won't be trying that one - its a similar distance if not even further than DUB-LAX.

just my few cents...
Next Flight: DUB-BOS (EI), BOS-DEN-PDX (SWA), SEA-BOS (AS)
 
Tornado82
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:07 am

Add in that PHX has some density altitude issues in the summer as well.
 
JJMNGR
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:20 am

Guys,

Always depends on what situation.

It is very generic just to say that an A333 could reach from point A to B. An A333 can fly from PHX to TYO....depending on configuration, load, cargo on board etc....
 
wdleiser
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:21 am

What is the distance between Phoenix and Frankfurt?
 
gigneil
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:31 am

I would go so far as to say an A330 PHX-FRA during the winter would suffer unacceptable restrictions, and during the summer forget about it out of PHX.

N
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:33 am

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 4):
Always depends on what situation.

It is very generic just to say that an A333 could reach from point A to B. An A333 can fly from PHX to TYO....depending on configuration, load, cargo on board etc....

That is why I put effectively in the question. That means would it make money while still offering a competitive rate compared to connecting.

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 5):
What is the distance between Phoenix and Frankfurt?

4898 NM according to GSM w/ 138min ETOPS reserve.
 
tzadik
Posts: 99
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:34 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 3):
Add in that PHX has some density altitude issues in the summer as well.

not sure how much effect this would have if the temp is not outrageous... the elevation is only 1193ft and runway 26/8 is 11,500ft long.

guess we wont be seeing any HP/US flights to europe until they either wise up and get an "ER" or wait for the A350... but me thinks they won't be around long enough to take delivery on those  banghead 

ps. are any of those 762's "ER's"
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:36 am

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 8):

ps. are any of those 762's "ER's"

Yes, all of the 762s that US has are ERs.
 
tzadik
Posts: 99
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:44 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 9):
Yes, all of the 762s that US has are ERs.

well i know that Lufthansa was running B763's on that route until they bailed... So a B762 should be able to run it. But then again your original question was not asking about the 767's capabilities  dopey 
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:55 am

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 1):
but I do know that Aer Lingus uses the A330 from LAX to DUB so I'd assume that the A330 would have the range for PHX to FRA...

Aer Lingus uses an A332 to LAX, not an A333. In fact, they ordered the A332 specifically because of the LAX route.

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 1):
I know the B767 certainly does.

The 763ER was right sized for LH in the FRA-PHX market but was taking weight restrictions too often during the summer season

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 8):
not sure how much effect this would have if the temp is not outrageous... the elevation is only 1193ft and runway 26/8 is 11,500ft long.

1193 feet is a rather decent altitude and the temperature in the PHX summer is the definition of outrageous 98% of the time. Also, 11,500 is not that great when you consider that LAX, a much more temperate airport at sea level is planning on extending all its runways to the same length of 25R/7L (12,000 feet) in order to allow more efficient use of runways by long haul flights. Consider also that LAS has a runway over 14,000 feet and DEN, which is higher but cooler than PHX needs 16,000 to allow full loads to Asia.

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 10):
well i know that Lufthansa was running B763's on that route until they bailed... So a B762 should be able to run it.

The 763ERs LH had running the route were taking weight restrictions a fair percentage of the summer, which is one of the main reasons they bailed. The ex-Piedmont 762ERs at US are older models and may or may not be able to do the route without haveing to restrict at least part of the time.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
User avatar
clickhappy
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 8:59 am

FRA-PHX = 5637 mi according to the Great Circle Mapper
 
md90fan
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:05 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
Aer Lingus uses an A332 to LAX, not an A333. In fact, they ordered the A332 specifically because of the LAX route.

So their A332 only fly to LAX?? BTW what are the loads on the LAX-SNN/DUB??? Do they fly to both DUB and SNN from LAX?? or is it a triangle flight pattern???

US is getting A332's in the future
http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
 
N1120A
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:11 am

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 13):
So their A332 only fly to LAX?? BTW what are the loads on the LAX-SNN/DUB??? Do they fly to both DUB and SNN from LAX?? or is it a triangle flight pattern???

Their A332s rotate somewhere else as well I think, I have no idea about the loads except to tell you that they are still on the route and it is a triangle route.

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 13):
US is getting A332's in the future

No they aren't. That order was canceled. They are getting A350s, which should end all PHX issues
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:28 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
No they aren't. That order was canceled. They are getting A350s, which should end all PHX issues

It was my understanding that we would be getting both. The 332 in 2007 and the 350 in 2011-ish.
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:35 am

Correction: LH used the 340-300 on the PHX-FRA route. LTU used both the MD-11 and 763 a few years earlier.
 
tzadik
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:38 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 11):
PHX summer is the definition of outrageous 98%

I live in the valley... I don't consider 108 to be outrageous... on the other hand i do consider 08 to be... don't know how you cold weather people do it, but that's beside the point.

what i meant by outrageous was the few times a century it gets up into the high teens low twenties plus one hundred degrees that is  Smile
 
jmc1975
Posts: 2903
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
No they aren't. That order was canceled. They are getting A350s, which should end all PHX issues

Errrrrrr! Yes they are. The order is alive and well, and they will replace the 762ERs.

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 15):
It was my understanding that we would be getting both. The 332 in 2007 and the 350 in 2011-ish.

 checkmark 
.......
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 9:59 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 15):
It was my understanding that we would be getting both. The 332 in 2007 and the 350 in 2011-ish.

Interesting. The A332s had been wiped from the Airbus order books at one point. Looks like the restructured the deal

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 17):
I live in the valley... I don't consider 108 to be outrageous... on the other hand i do consider 08 to be... don't know how you cold weather people do it, but that's beside the point.

108 is outrageous to an aircraft
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
RichardJF
Posts: 565
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:05 am

Just for interest sake could a 762ER fly LAX-AGP with a viable load?
 
jdwfloyd
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:05 am

I am still holding out for the escape claus that US has on the 350 to be inacted. I would love to see US go back to Boeing, as little chance as there is of that.
 
Tornado82
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:14 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 21):
I am still holding out for the escape claus that US has on the 350 to be inacted. I would love to see US go back to Boeing, as little chance as there is of that.

While I agree... you have to be careful saying that in these parts. Before long we're gonna have a Transatlantic war in here, lol.
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:16 am

Our side has won every war of that type over the last 150 or so years, I'm not worried.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:18 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 23):
Our side has won every war of that type over the last 150 or so years, I'm not worried.

Hahahaha. 229 to be exact. I hope people can take that as a joke though. Probably not, this is Airliners.net after all.
 
tzadik
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:08 am

RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:26 am

Quoting Jdwfloyd (Reply 21):
I would love to see US go back to Boeing, as little chance as there is of that.

like i said earlier... i'd be surprised if US even made it to the A350 delivery dates.
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:34 am

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 25):
like i said earlier... i'd be surprised if US even made it to the A350 delivery dates.

You are probably right, being the best funded airline in America right now and having been the first to emerge from bankruptcy since CO did certainly spells doom. Not to mention how well the other legacy carriers are doing currently, man we got a lot going against us. Honestly I think if Boeing keeps it up and the 380 doesn't live up to the hype and a few more airlines pull their orders we may not be getting the 350 due to the fact Airbus didn't make it to the delivery date.  Smile
 
tzadik
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:08 am

RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:21 am

i'm just one of those hometown airline guys and US is anything but that... i hope it will last but one failing airline merging with semi-succsessful one in the middle of herb kellehers backyard a success story does not make. funded by airbus and air canada.... hmmm more successful partners  Smile
 
gigneil
Posts: 14133
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RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:41 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
That order was canceled.

They're right boss... it wasn't.

Quoting Tzadik (Reply 27):
i'm just one of those hometown airline guys and US is anything but that

Come on now. Its right there in your back yard now, and practically all your management is still in charge, including the one that matters.

N
 
crownvic
Posts: 1808
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Wed Dec 07, 2005 3:24 pm

To answer the original question, can an A330-300 make FRA-PHX? If it is an A330-300X, yes it could. My Travel operated all summer and fall in charter configuration between MAN and LAS on their A330-300X versions. LAS is more difficult than PHX is in the summer. I realize that FRA is a bit further, but it could make it. Now whether US Airways A330-300's could make it, that is another question. Perhaps Airbus will swap some aircraft for them with higher gross weight versions being that they are planning to be a big A350 future customer.
 
Tom_EDDF
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 8:47 pm

RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Thu Dec 08, 2005 5:56 am

I think thay have -323X, so it is indeed the high gross weight version, but powered by PW4168A which should face more severe restrictions under hot/high conditions than the Trent 772 I guess my Travel was using. I'm sure they won't make is with decent loads and Mytravel also probably was some sort of MTOW restricted.

BTW, LH used to fly the A340-211 into PHX, only for a short time they used the A343 and then the 763ER before they pulled out. I was on one of the last A342 flights to PHX and back, and we had quite a nice sightseeing flight over Phoenix and the superstition mountains  Smile I remember it quite well because it was one of the rare occasions where I got upgraded to F...
 
captaink
Posts: 3987
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 10:43 am

RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Thu Dec 08, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):

108 is outrageous to an aircraft

I am originally from the south caribbean, and i think 108 is rather outrageous to humans too. But I guess that is all relative.

Anyone knows the number of A330-200s US plans on acquiring? I guess if they do plan on doing Europe ex LAX, the B762s would have to suffice. What are the chances that US would invest a little in upgrading the cabins, and maybe hold on to their 76s a little longer. It is my understanding that there are older 762s still flying around.
There is something special about planes....
 
boysteve
Posts: 887
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:58 am

Quoting Ei2ksea (Reply 2):
Aer Lingus find it hard going with the A333 for DUB/SNN to ORD and dont even try on DUB to LAX (thats solely A332 territory)

What is the problem here? Do Aer Lingus operate the wrong A333 for DUB-LAX. This website shows that the A333 range is upto 8,600kms but the longer range version is 10,185kms.
 
airbazar
Posts: 7136
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:39 am

Quoting Tom_EDDF (Reply 30):
BTW, LH used to fly the A340-211 into PHX, only for a short time they used the A343 and then the 763ER before they pulled out.

The 767 was also operated by Condor if I remember correctly.
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2389
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: Would A A330-300 Reach From FRA To PHX Effectively

Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
108 is outrageous to an aircraft

Maybe to Airbus planes.  Silly


Seriously. Come to PHX in July. At temperatures regularly above 110, PHX ops don't slow down.

Now when it reaches 122 that's when all ops stop.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.

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