NBC News1
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727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:08 pm

Canadians head to the polls January 23rd and opposition parties are slamming Prime Minister Paul Martin for using an environmentally unfriendly 727 as his campaign plane..."one of the world's noisiest and most environmentally unfriendly aircraft."

Both the Conservatives and the New Democratic Party are renting A320s from Air Canada.

*******
Martin faces questions over campaign plane
CTV.ca News Staff

While Prime Minister Paul Martin was making an address on climate change at a UN conference in Montreal, the Conservative party was challenging his credibility on the subject, saying there is clearly a "gap between Mr. Martin's rhetoric and his actions."

In a press released entitled "Reality Check," the Conservative party blasted the Liberal leader for flying in a Boeing 727.

"Liberal Leader Paul Martin flew in to Montreal today to boast about his clean air record. Um, but he flew in quite the gas guzzler! Paul Martin is jetting around in a Boeing 727 - one of the world's noisiest and most environmentally unfriendly aircraft," the press release reads.

"Conversely, the Conservative campaign plane is an Airbus 320 -- widely respected for its low greenhouse gas emissions and noise control."

The Conservatives cite a report from the European Commission that says "The noise level of an Airbus 320 is around 20 dB less than that of a Caravelle or Boeing 727 40 years ago."

The release also cites a 2004 Globe and Mail article that reports statistics released by the Air Transport Association of Canada reveal the Boeing 727 burns 1,289 gallons of fuel per hour, compared with the Airbus 320 which burns just over half that amount, at 767 gallons per hour.

A spokesperson for Air Transport Association of Canada told CTV.ca that "Clearly, older aircraft such as the Boeing 727 are not as environmentally efficient as newer models, like the Airbus A320 but the entire aviation community in Canada is committed to work towards reducing greenhouse gas emissions, including both companies involved in these election charters."

Martin was defiant when asked about the fuel efficiency of the plane.

"This is a plane like any other plane. The only way to travel across a country like Canada is to travel by plane, and I suppose we could poll press members who are travelling with me whether they'd like to cross the country by bus," he told reporters.

"But the fact is that we all know that we have to make all means of transportation more sustainable and save energy. And I have to say that I don't take your question lightly. I think this is important. There are a lot of things currently in place we have to change, and certainly the fact that we're wasting energy through transportation -- that's one of them."

Later Wednesday, when asked again about the plane, Martin conceded there was room for improvement.

"The fact is that that these are chartered planes ... what you are saying is there are more fuel-efficient planes that we could have chartered. I suppose that's something that we would look at."
 
UK_Dispatcher
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:14 pm

Seriously, who is going to ask whether an aircraft is environmentally friendly before chartering it?! Parties who are chartering an aircraft are not technical experts on aircraft - I really don't think the guy has anything to account for.
 
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yowza
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:17 pm

It's at times like this I wished I lived outside Canada. All the whining and bitching and needless chatter around election time such as this drives me nuts. Stupid non-issues like this being splashed though the media are simply hurting the conservatives. Ridiculous really. If the 727 was such a bad aircraft maybe the conservatives should give First Air a call and tell them to cease operations.

YOWza
 
ANother
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:22 pm

Quoting NBC News1 (Thread starter):
Both the Conservatives and the New Democratic Party are renting A320s from Air Canada.

A319s I think - from this internal AC notice:

Quote:
Conservatives, NDP charter AC A319s. This week, Winnipeg Heavy Maintenance installed decals on two A319 aircraft, which will take the Conservative Party and the NDP throughout the country for their respective campaigns this winter. Both parties also chose Air Canada to fly them during the last campaign in 2004. The aircraft FIN 288, to be used by the Conservative Party and FIN 287, to be used by the NDP were subsequently ferried to Ottawa when the campaign officially began on Tuesday. Both charters are being handled and operated by AC Jetz.
 
miamiair
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:28 pm

Should have dug up and flown an old Convair 880. That, was a true clear air converter...
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Revelation
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:43 pm

Quoting NBC News1 (Thread starter):
Canadians head to the polls January 23rd and opposition parties are slamming Prime Minister Paul Martin for using an environmentally unfriendly 727 as his campaign plane

Wow, and Canadians are usually such nice people!

Maybe Mr. Martin should be praised for not needlessly causing the extraction and smelting of aluminum ore to produce a newer aircraft...
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access-air
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:00 pm

When people get this way you have to wonder what their true motives are....If they are willing to pay for an environmentally efficient aircraft such as an Airbus or NG 737 to carry these candidates then let the people making the accusations pay for it.....

Access-Air
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phollingsworth
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:01 pm

Quoting NBC News1 (Thread starter):
The Conservatives cite a report from the European Commission that says "The noise level of an Airbus 320 is around 20 dB less than that of a Caravelle or Boeing 727 40 years ago."

You have got to love the blatant misuse of statistics here. While a modern A320 of B737 is ~20dB quieter than an original 727-100. That is not the case with the 727 that Paul Martin is being trucked around in. As such the use of the comparison is patently improper.
 
cayman
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:40 am

Those who are not in Canada fail to see the real issues here: Liberal arrogance and hypocrisy. Paul Martin and the Liberals have an objectively appalling environmental record, Cdn greenhouse emissions are up 23% since 1991--one of the worst in the industrialized world---PM Martin attends a climate conference yesterday and, true to form, and without regard to any fact or reality---portrays himself and the Liberal party as saviours of all that is good and decent--including the environment.

All the while, the campaign aircraft was leased from some Liberal hack and is yet again an indication of Liberal pork barreling.

It is a legitimate issue and should be. Martin and the Liberals espouse Kyoto and expect all Canadians to tighten their belts and conserve--and yet go ahead and lease a campaign aircraft which on any objective standard is considerably worse as a polluter.

You can't have it both ways--as much as the Liberals try to.
 
MattRB
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:43 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 2):
Stupid non-issues like this

Well, no, it's not exactly a non-issue. It's hypocritical of the Liberals to be running on the issue of environmental sustainability and campaiging to stop climate change on the international stage all the while jetting around the country in one of the dirtier planes (emissions-wise) still in operation today.

They could've used an A319 like the other parties, but chose to use this one, I suspect, because it was more than likely donated by Cargojet (who's owner just happens to be a big Liberal supporter).

So, it's just another case of the Liberals throwing their policies aside in favor of the almighty dollar.
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yegbey01
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:50 am

does anyone know whom that 727 belongs to?

I also find it interesting that the COnservatives do not charter a Westjet aircraft..
 
Arrow
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:00 am

Quoting CayMan (Reply 8):
You can't have it both ways--as much as the Liberals try to.

CayMan, you are right on the money with this one. The issue isn't the airplane, it's gross hypocrisy -- and the Liberals have been getting away with this kind of stuff for decades, starting with Chretien's promise to a) scrap NAFTA and b) get rid of the GST (for the benefit of non-Canadians -- he did neither).

Martin's version of this is to try to take the moral high ground on global warming (Canada signed Kyoto) by slamming the US for not signing it. But the US performance on lowering greenhouse gas emissions is twice Canada's performance, in fact Canada ranks 35 out of 40 on that score.

His party's decision to charter a comparative gas guzzler speaks volumes about just how serious he is on this issue -- in other words, he's just as hypocritical as his predecessor. I'm almost at the point where I'd sooner vote for the Communist Party than for these guys, and I'm a raging capitalist.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
MattRB
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:30 am

Quoting Yegbey01 (Reply 10):
does anyone know whom that 727 belongs to?

Operated by Starjet Canada, owned by Cargojet.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
MEA-707
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:35 am

Another part the "treehuggers" (used tongue in cheek, I have been member of the dutch Green party for a while) forget when they clame this, is it MAY be more environmentally friendly for say First Air to continue to operate a 727, which is available as stand by anyway then order a new A-320, the building of which also cost a lot in energy and materials.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:55 am

Airbus? Boeing? Is that CANADIAN? Did the candidates Bush and Kerry fly some non-American metal last year?

All 3 of them should fly BOMBARDIER aircraft. They make excellent corporate jets, or regional jets that can be modified like they did to these 319s and 727. These are not gas guzzlers unlike, indeed, the 727 is.

May all three of them lose the elections... (not for that stupid aircraft issue but other issues...) (errr, 4 of them, I'm not supporting the Bloc Québécois either!!!!)

Quoting CayMan (Reply 8):
Cdn greenhouse emissions are up 23% since 1991--one of the worst in the industrialized world

Right indeed. Even the Americans are doing better than we do on this (increase of emissions, not emissions themselves). Big shame on us.
When I doubt... go running!
 
Arrow
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:55 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 13):
it MAY be more environmentally friendly for say First Air to continue to operate a 727, which is available as stand by anyway then order a new A-320, the building of which also cost a lot in energy and materials.

This is a red herring. I can't see any new orders for Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier, Embraer or anyone else because of a two-month charter for 3 aircraft used in a Canadian election. All these planes belong to existing fleets and will be back in service with those fleets after election day.

Maybe the real story here is how much the parties are paying for these aircraft. Given that both the NDP and the Conservatives are using Air Canada planes, those deals should be fairly transparent. And who is supplying the gas?
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
CaptainCanuck
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:57 am

Honestly, Martin should fly around in one of the military's Sea Kings or Herc's. See what the armed forces have been putting up with for the last four decades.... Harper would be on his own after the first leg of the trip.

Or heck, even one of the new 'reliable' Cormorants. Because those are working out well.
 
bmacleod
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:05 am

Any pictures of PM Martin's campaign 727?

I believe Brian Mulroney used an AC 727 for his re-election campaign back in 1988. He won in a landslide...

[Edited 2005-12-08 18:09:46]
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caribb
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:30 am

Hum.. seems to me there are far more pressing issues in Canada than one dirty 727. People with lumps on their lungs have to wait 6 months to get a hospital appointment leaving those of us who can to flee to US clinics and hospitals to get earlier results.... isn't that a far more pressing if not far more heartfelt problem for Canadians the media and politicans can play up than an old piece of metal which is generally nameless, faceless and meaningless to the average voter. I almost feel sorry for the 727 since she was such a proud plane in her day.. but come on..
 
MattRB
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:43 am

Yes, governing party (or any party for that matter) hypocrisy should not be an issue. Let's move on, shall we?  Yeah sure
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yowza
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:05 am

Quoting MattRB (Reply 9):
Well, no, it's not exactly a non-issue. It's hypocritical of the Liberals to be running on the issue of environmental sustainability and campaiging to stop climate change on the international stage all the while jetting around the country in one of the dirtier planes (emissions-wise) still in operation today.

One politician flying one dirty aircraft for one campaign is really not a big deal and it's petty of the opposition to try and make it a big deal. I was brought up in a pro-liberal environment and EVEN I voted Conservative last time and plan to do so again because I'm sick of the bull$hit that the Liberals keep trying to feed me and the rest of this country. That said I think Harper and Jack "used car salesman" Layton should worry about themselves and their platforms rather than taking little potshots at Martin and his cronies. Petty actions such as this only make them looks weaker.

YOWza
 
cayman
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:29 am

You cannot blame the Conservative Party for "making" this an issue.
Paul Martin was in Montreal appearing officially as PM but using his appearance at the environmental summit as a soap box and a stump for his campaign---proudly rattling off inaccuracies aimed to pump up his pitiful environmental record.

All the Conservative election war room did is send email/blackberries to the press giving them a heads up on the issue of the aircraft--it was up to them whether to make it a reported issue. Evidently they did. So you cannot say the Cons Party "made" the issue--they brought a fact to the attention of the press which chose to report on it.
 
milan320
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:05 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 2):
It's at times like this I wished I lived outside Canada. All the whining and bitching and needless chatter around election time such as this drives me nuts. Stupid non-issues like this being splashed though the media are simply hurting the conservatives.

YOWza, calm down a little bit mate . You should know that after Hockey, Politics is our second favourite past-time.
-Milan320
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L-188
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:50 am

Quoting NBC News1 (Thread starter):
"Conversely, the Conservative campaign plane is an Airbus 320 -- widely respected for its low greenhouse gas emissions and noise control

Jeezus...do you think those greenies actually know how much plastic is used in that plane's construction?
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
ACDC8
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:53 am

Quoting NBC News1 (Thread starter):
opposition parties are slamming Prime Minister Paul Martin for using an environmentally unfriendly 727 as his campaign plane

Of course they are! They're the opposition party, thats their job. As if any average Canadian would know the difference or even care about it. Typical politics.
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CRJ'sRule
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:53 am

"Both the Conservatives and the New Democratic Party are renting A320s from Air Canada."

Glad to see the Conservatives getting good usage of of the Airbus aircraft that Mr. Mulroney was oh so insistent that Air Canada acquired while he was in office and Air Canada was a crown corporation. I love how people in Government see no problem with pissing away millions of dollars on frivilrous expenditures (see above), yet get so upset at something as lame as one aircraft that uses a bit more fuel and makes more noise than others. Way to go guys! Way to go!
 
threepoint
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:59 am

Cayman, Arrow and MattRB, perhaps you guys should consider moving your political opinions to the non-av forum. The fact you used the word 'airplane' in your posts does not necessarily make them aviation-related nor even relevant. Let's talk about airplanes and you can cast your vote your own way in private, thank you.
The choice of airplane types will not make one bit of difference in the election, which was a foregone conclusion before it was even announced.

How many aircraft for rent/charter does AC Jetz possess? (my attempt at practicing what I preach).
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Hardkor
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:07 pm

If I were one of the leader of our political parties, I'd charter a pimped-MD-11. I'd love to see the looks on the reporters faces when the ol' Maddog rolls into town!
Hardkor
 
MissedApproach
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:22 pm

Quoting MattRB (Reply 12):
Operated by Starjet Canada, owned by Cargojet.

At least it's owned by a Canadian company. Unlike the diplomatic corps maple-leaf pins the Liberals had made in China. Still, pretty hypocritical to talk environment after taking the 727 to PEI for a photo op. I think they should all hitch-hike. Maybe then they'd get in touch with reality.
Can you hear me now?
 
Cessnapimp
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:33 pm

Quoting MattRB (Reply 9):
They could've used an A319 like the other parties, but chose to use this one, I suspect, because it was more than likely donated by Cargojet (who's owner just happens to be a big Liberal supporter).

You know what MattRB? You have a definite point here...

... let's say Martin IS getting a break here on the rental of the plane... this is a huge campaign saving no kiddin'. And let's say the other two parties know that but are having a hard time proving it, well, in this case, I support the stupid "red herring" accusation 110%! Go ahead. Punch the discount plane all you want. Again, this is IF he's getting a break here.

No surprise either the Libs aren't using AC planes. They are NOT welcome; after all they've done for us in recent years, I tells ya. I hope they lose an engine (just to scare them, it can fly perfectly on 2).

Grrrrrr!
 
YWG
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:38 pm

It just goes to show how complicated politics get in Canada.
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eddieho
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:57 pm

I'd actually come back and ask, "Well whose money are you spending?"
I'd agree to spending on a cheaper aircraft.
 
timeair
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:58 pm

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 15):
All 3 of them should fly BOMBARDIER aircraft. They make excellent corporate jets, or regional jets that can be modified like they did to these 319s and 727. These are not gas guzzlers unlike, indeed, the 727 is.

Yeah, could've used a Jazz CRJ 705....although with all the media equipment the A320/319 are hauling around, could've become a challenge getting it all onto the 705!
Just don't think it is feasible with an RJ.
You can't get there from here.
 
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yowza
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:31 pm

Quoting Milan320 (Reply 23):
YOWza, calm down a little bit mate . You should know that after Hockey, Politics is our second favourite past-time.

Being Canadian I do know this, but the childishness on parliament hill has to stop.

Quoting CRJ'sRule (Reply 26):
"Both the Conservatives and the New Democratic Party are renting A320s from Air Canada."

Glad to see the Conservatives getting good usage of of the Airbus aircraft that Mr. Mulroney was oh so insistent that Air Canada acquired while he was in office and Air Canada was a crown corporation. I love how people in Government see no problem with pissing away millions of dollars on frivilrous expenditures (see above), yet get so upset at something as lame as one aircraft that uses a bit more fuel and makes more noise than others. Way to go guys! Way to go!

So true!!

All of this juvenile bickering aside I do love the fact that we live in a country where this is a prominent issue rather than suicide bombers, government sanctioned torture etc etc Now if only Bombardier would start making longhaulers I would not have to move to Toulouse.

YOWza

[Edited 2005-12-09 06:32:26]
 
milan320
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:27 pm

Just like our country, this thread is split up too.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 34):
All of this juvenile bickering aside I do love the fact that we live in a country where this is a prominent issue rather than suicide bombers, government sanctioned torture etc etc Now if only Bombardier would start making longhaulers I would not have to move to Toulouse.

Couldn't agree with you more on the politics part.

YOWza, did you get a job with Airbus/EADS? If so good for you .. I just got an e-mail from EADS - REJECTED for yet another opening!!!!!!!!!!!
-Milan320
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darrenthe747
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:12 pm

As a HUGE Boeing fan and 727 fan, they have a point. If you go around talking liberal rhetoric then you need to set an example. 727's are loud and fuel guzzelers. that is a fact. Perhaps the Adv series isn't so bad...

This reminds me a bit of that fraud Nader in the US Green party who was slamming all the big corporations who exploit workers and contribute to vast sums of money to cadidates. It was later disclosed that Nader has large amounts of money invested in Ratheon, Boeing, Ford, Phillip-Morris, Pfizer, MacDonalds, and Occidental Stock...

I love liberals.
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haj96
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:19 pm

Quoting MattRB (Reply 12):
Operated by Starjet Canada, owned by Cargojet.

So he really uses a cargo plane for his campaign?  confused 

At least he doesn´t have to close the shades when he watches a movie Big grin

Regards,
haj96
 
darrenthe747
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:43 pm

Quote:
Quoting Haj96
So he really uses a cargo plane for his campaign?

At least he doesn´t have to close the shades when he watches a movie

 rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl  rotfl 
All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
 
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glideslope
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:40 pm

Allright, this is it!!! No Smoked Herring from Nova Scotia for anyone under my Christmas Tree!!!!
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
MattRB
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:33 pm

Quoting Threepoint (Reply 26):
Cayman, Arrow and MattRB, perhaps you guys should consider moving your political opinions to the non-av forum. The fact you used the word 'airplane' in your posts does not necessarily make them aviation-related nor even relevant. Let's talk about airplanes and you can cast your vote your own way in private, thank you.

Did you miss the title of this thread perhaps? This is a discussion about the Liberals use of a 727 while running on an 'environmental sustainability' plank in their campaign. I fail to see how my (or Cayman & Arrow's) posts detract from that discussion.

Perhaps this whole thread would've been better served by being originally posted in the Non-Av forum, but it's not. You're more than welcome to ask a mod to have it moved, however.

And until you have an 'Airliners.net Crew - Forum Moderator' graphic next to your s/n, I'd kindly ask you to not try and moderate the forum.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
bmacleod
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:43 pm

Quoting CRJ'sRule (Reply 25):
Airbus aircraft that Mr. Mulroney was oh so insistent that Air Canada acquired while he was in office and Air Canada was a crown corporation.

Wasn't AC privatized in 1989?
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:17 am

Why do they even need a A319 or a 727? Wouldn't a CRJ be enough? (not to mention Canadian made?)

I'm sure they can fly AC or WS commercially if they really need to ferry people cross country. With all the technology these days you'd think they wouldn't need a big entourage to physically be there and there'd only be a handful of press ... easily accommodated in an RJ!

Ah well, let's hope you guys aren't as generous with taxpayer funds for political campaigning as we are here ...
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
ikramerica
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Sat Dec 10, 2005 9:35 am

I agree. CRJ900 would be fine, and very patriotic.

Quoting Caribb (Reply 18):
People with lumps on their lungs have to wait 6 months to get a hospital appointment leaving those of us who can to flee to US clinics and hospitals to get earlier results....

Gee, and down here all we hear about is how horrible our system is and how wonderful Canada is. we drive across the border for cheap prescriptions for drugs most of us only think we need because doctors say so, and then you guys come down here for life and death procedures that are beauracratically constrained in your own country.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
threepoint
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:20 pm

Quoting MattRB (Reply 39):
Did you miss the title of this thread perhaps? This is a discussion about the Liberals use of a 727 while running on an 'environmental sustainability' plank in their campaign. I fail to see how my (or Cayman & Arrow's) posts detract from that discussion.

Thanks, I managed to catch the title of the thread...it was right there at the top where it usually lies. I agree with your interpretation of the discussion, but your collective posts are nothing more than an anti-Liberal tirade. Which is perfectly fine on, say, a site called politics.net. But this isn't such a site. In reply 8, Cayman actually managed to utter 'campaign aircraft' twice, but devoted the rest of the post to a trumpeting of his opinion on national politics.

We can't seriously cry 'hypocrisy' as every federal party has an environmental policy, whether left or right, and each of those parties expends so much money, time and energy while advancing their positions that the extra couple of tons of CO gas emitted by a 727 over a 319 is insignificant to the point of irrelevance.

Quoting MattRB (Reply 39):
And until you have an 'Airliners.net Crew - Forum Moderator' graphic next to your s/n, I'd kindly ask you to not try and moderate the forum.

Uh, so in asking me not to try to moderate the forum, aren't you in effect trying to moderate the forum? I must have missed your wee graphic too.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
caribb
Posts: 1502
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 1999 6:33 am

RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:07 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 42):
Gee, and down here all we hear about is how horrible our system is and how wonderful Canada is. we drive across the border for cheap prescriptions for drugs most of us only think we need because doctors say so, and then you guys come down here for life and death procedures that are beauracratically constrained in your own country.

Well it's anything but "wonderful". Perhaps you pay a lot but at least you get a fast reaction to your problems in the US. Your problem is can you afford it and will it destroy your finances. Our problem is despite cheap medication and medical services will a sickeness kill us before we can even have it diagnosed. A contact I have at Bombardier has had a hoarse throat (laryngitis symptoms) for 6 weeks now and she tells me she can't get an appointment to have it checked for 6 months. It has all the ear marks of throat cancer unfortunately and she's rightfully worried. We have MRI's up here available but no one to operate them so they sit on a schedule when they can be used leaving people to wait in a holding queue for weeks even though the equipment is available and usable. Meanwhile our idiot politicans and media are talking about a single Boeing 727 that no one cares about. If the political leaders get throat cancer believe me they don't wait in any damned queue in fact they are often the first en route to New York or Boston or Los Angeles seeking immediate treatment. They also don't live everyday realities like being left in an emergency room gurney in the hallway for 48 hours waiting to get treatment. The 727 isn't the issue, end of story.

[Edited 2005-12-11 18:18:02]
 
timeair
Posts: 421
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:26 pm

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 41):
Wouldn't a CRJ be enough? (not to mention Canadian made?)



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 42):
agree. CRJ900 would be fine, and very patriotic.

Pleas refer to comment 32. You have to keep in mind that all parties are also taking media and others onboard their campaign aircraft, and carry approx 4500lbs of equipment, a bit more than the CRJ100/200/700/705/900 are capable of fitting into their holds!
You can't get there from here.
 
SkydrolBoy
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:03 pm

Maybe they should fly around in a Convair 580 like the BC Liberals did during their campaign earlier this year.....
 
ac7e7
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:39 pm

Not to mention that each media outlet is paying between 9-11k each to tag along with the political parties. The parties are probably either breaking even or making a profit dragging the media around on the planes.
 
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yyz717
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:17 pm

That the PM is flying a 727 in the campaign is a non-issue.

Anyone complaining about this is also badmouthing indirectly all the other Canadian operators of the 727, all of whom will likely be voting in January.

That the PM is flying in a private 727 owned by a Liberal fundraiser does however raise the issue of transparency and whether the PM can be bought, which it seems he can be.
I dumped at the gybe mark in strong winds when I looked up at a Porter Q400 on finals. Can't stop spotting.
 
9252fly
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RE: 727 Becomes Campaign Issue In Canada

Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:36 pm

If I recall,in the previous election,did not the Liberals also use a 727 from the same operator? I find it odd,as you would think that the most successful and financially stable party would have the funds to lease their own modern Airbus from AC as two other parties have done? I suppose there is more to this story than I would care to know.