EconoBoy
Topic Author
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Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:55 pm

Here’s a question to baggage handlers (whose work is often unappreciated).

For reasons which escape me, some pax seem to be capable of checking-in on time, but never get round to boarding the plane, despite numerous reminders on the airport PA system. When this happens, any checked-in baggage has to be off-loaded.

Does this require a baggage handler to scrabble through a heap of bags and suitcases in the hold until they chance upon the right luggage, or do they know roughly where to look? Is there much pressure to find the luggage quickly so that the plane can leave the gate, and have you ever removed a bag/suitcase only to have to put it back on because the pax has decided to turn up after all?
 
hiflyer
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:05 pm

Whether the bag is removed, how it is found, and what processes are involved are subject to the aplicable security rules in effect for that particular flight and can vary depending on routing and destination. Generally some carriers record tag numbers per loading area, some pull 'stickers' off the tags by loading area, and some scan the bags per loading area like FedEx scans. Does the ramp rat have to scramble thru bags to find the right one...heck yes...grin. Is it reboarded if the pax shows up after sked dept...hopefully not and the pax is held off as well.
 
luisde8cd
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:14 pm

I flew WN on August BUF-BWI. I checked in 30min before departure time and the TSA queue was extremely long and made miss my flight. When I got to the gate, I was surprised to see that my luggage had made it and was on its way to BWI. The gate agent managed to book me on the next flight 2.5hrs later and when I got to BWI my luggage was put aside by the baggage carrousel.

Can this be considered a security breach?

Saludos desde Caracas,
Luis
 
N200WN
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:22 pm

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 2):
Can this be considered a security breach?

No, it happens every day and is not a security breach. All domestic checked bags are screened by TSA prior to being loaded onto aircraft. At some airports it's done by the TSA in the ticket counter area (like WN at SAT and PVD) and at others the luggage is screened in the baggage area (like Delta at SAT). It just depends on the airport AND the airline.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:27 pm

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 1):
Does the ramp rat have to scramble thru bags to find the right one...heck yes...grin

No, this is a common misnomer to passengers...If a ticketed passenger doesn't show up, and his bags make it to the a/c, the rampers have no intention of sifting though hundreds of bags on the a/c to pull it. This would have huge delay factors on hundreds of daily flights.

It's unwritten, but this happens often, much to your surprise...
 
sk601
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting FXramper (Reply 4):
No, this is a common misnomer to passengers...If a ticketed passenger doesn't show up, and his bags make it to the a/c, the rampers have no intention of sifting though hundreds of bags on the a/c to pull it.

In Europe bags MUST be offloaded if a passenger is noshow at the gate. This will result in delays, too bad, but security is priority number 1. In AMS the procedure is as follows, once a gate-agent tells the ramp officer of the # of missing pax (appr 10 minutes b4 STD), the ramp officer starts offloading the bags. If the passenger shows up, he will be refused boarding the plane, even if the bags aren't found yet. This procedure is in effect since a few months, resulting in a better on-time performance!
 
md80fanatic
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:44 pm

Quoting N200WN (Reply 3):
Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 2):
Can this be considered a security breach?

No, it happens every day and is not a security breach. All domestic checked bags are screened by TSA prior to being loaded onto aircraft. At some airports it's done by the TSA in the ticket counter area (like WN at SAT and PVD) and at others the luggage is screened in the baggage area (like Delta at SAT). It just depends on the airport AND the airline.

I kinda think it is a security breach...and it would be a minor one if it did not happen so often, as you said "everyday". The TSA has not seen every possible object that can be fashioned into an explosive, and it is possible they could miss one during a scan.

The whole point behind "one pax one bag" is the notion that a terrorist would prefer NOT to die as a result of his attack, therefore would likely attempt placing an explosive in a plane he himself is not flying on.
 
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litz
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:49 pm

Quoting N200WN (Reply 3):
No, it happens every day and is not a security breach. All domestic checked bags are screened by TSA prior to being loaded onto aircraft. At some airports it's done by the TSA in the ticket counter area (like WN at SAT and PVD) and at others the luggage is screened in the baggage area (like Delta at SAT). It just depends on the airport AND the airline.

I'm sure they take factors into account ... domestic travel? Round Trip? Are you a frequent flyer? Did you trip any "alarms" ?

Most of the time, you've checked in at the airport, your bag is in process, and they figure you're stuck in the TSA line. It's happened to me several times.

I just get rebooked on the next flight (Gold Medallion helps a lot there) and the bags either do or don't make the flight I'm rescheduled on. If they don't, it's because they've already gone out on the first flight.

- litz
 
US AIRWAYS
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:47 am

From what I hear it is not a security breach as long as your bag is screened by TSA. This sort of thing happens. For example, if a person checks their bag, and they are travelling on a fully loaded trans-con 321, and their bag is the first one in, there is no way that we would be able to go it and sort through 200+ bags to pull it off without causing some sort of major delay if they didn't make the flight. However, it is a security breach for international flights. If a person is going to mis-connect, one of the gate agents will call the ramp before the flight leaves to give them the name of the passenger and the bag tag#. When the agents in the bag chute load the "cans", they will take a sticker off of the bag tag before placing the bag in the can. The sticker has the name of the passenger and bag tag#. The agent will place the sticker on a piece of paper that is taped to the side of the can that the bag is being placed in. That way, the ramp agents can just look at the piece of paper on the side of the can instead of going inside each one and trying to look at the individual bag tags. It actually is a fairly quick process if the people in the chute do their part.
Go Eagles!
 
kaniksu
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:54 pm

RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:51 am

I once couldn't make a flight out of ONT because there was not enough time to screen my luggage. They told me I could not board without my luggage and that I would miss my flight. The next day I manage to fly home and upon arriving my luggage is not at my destination. It did not make my original flight. This really pissed me off.  Smile
 
flypdx
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:55 am

At one time it was policy that a bag had to be removed, shortly after 9-11. (I remember sitting at a gate several times, having a CSR come on the PA of the aircraft and ask Mr. SoandSo to please press teh call button or his baggage would be offloaded. I think that is no longer happening, since all baggage is now screened by the TSA at all airports. I am not quite sure though.

[Edited 2005-12-08 17:01:44]
 
ikramerica
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Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:42 am

Quoting US AIRWAYS (Reply 8):
and they are travelling on a fully loaded trans-con 321

Is that possible?  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
r311music
Posts: 102
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 2:49 am

RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:51 am

Actually I have had to remove bags numerous times. The bags are supposed to travel with the passenger. Some times passengers change their mind and decide they don't want to fly today or they decide to switch flights due to delays and cancellations. During these situations us rampers must actually go through the bags and find the ones associated with the passenger. This can be easy or a pain in the arse, depending on how the plane is loaded.
confusing use of time
 
JFKviaPHX
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:31 am

RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:54 am

Domestic bags fly...International Bags must be pulled. Airlines will not board the late passenger and delay the flight to pull the bag instead. I've seen it happen many times.
 
captaink
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:14 am

In the caribbean, all bags must travel with the passenger. So if a passenger doesn't show up at the gate, his or her bags must be offloaded. If it is a widebody aircraft with containers, the bag tags are recorded on a reconciliation sheet per container. So in this case you look up the sheets locate the bag tags, go to the appropriate container. One a narrowbody without containers well yes, you have to go through the bags in the hold, and as someone mentioned hope you get it quickly. We have had 30+ min delays trying to locate no show passengers bags. On narrow body aircraft the only separation we have is First Class/Connection bags which are loaded separately from the others. Those obviously would be easier to find.
There is something special about planes....
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12396
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:29 am

I recall on a flight LAX-AUK on UA, we had already pushed off and taxing and we had to return to the gate due to where luggage had to be removed as a pax missed the flight. We lost about 45 min/hour with that bit of fun then lost more time (another 2 hours I recall) as we had to top off the fuel and ground traffic issues due to runway/taxiway work.
I also recall on a domestic flight where my bag made an earlier flight, but I was on a later flight so no problem there.
 
Bridogger6
Posts: 664
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:21 am

RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:45 am

It seems to me the policy on bags for each and every airline differs slightly based on all the responses here. It is my understanding that it is crucial that bags be pulled for an international flight when passengers do not show up on time for the flight, but not as much so for domestic flights.

It is also my understanding that a passenger cannot voluntarily be separated from his or her bags but it is allowed to happen involuntarily, IE without the passenger realizing it. So, a passenger asking to get on an earlier flight that leaves in twenty or so minutes that has bags checked, must be denied the opportunity as it is much too unlikely the bags will not make the flight. At the same time, a passenger checking in with bags in time for their flight, but the bags do not make the flight is fine... the bags will just be put on the next available flight to the person's destination and the passenger will not know until they arrive that this has been done.

It seems to all have to do with what the passenger KNOWS about where there bags can and should be.
 
MarshalN
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:39 am

RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:46 am

I remember when the new HKG opened there was a big deal made of bags that made it without the pax, and it was considered a security breach, at least for the European carriers. This was pre 9/11 too. The idea is, like mentioned above, that a bag should not be traveling without the pax.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:53 am

I flew on LH a year back and at FRA, a pax was taken off the aircraft sick and then the captain announced that there would be a delay as the luggage of this pax had to be offloaded....I was sitting right back of the wing on the right side, just above the cargo hatch and saw atleast 10 containers removed from the hold before they found the right bags.....each container was searched for the bags....

Quite surprising, because I thought they should be keeping track of which container your luggage is in....right? This is definitely a practice followed in Indian airports....thumbs down for LH!!!
 
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litz
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:01 am

RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:55 am

Quoting JFKviaPHX (Reply 13):
Domestic bags fly...International Bags must be pulled. Airlines will not board the late passenger and delay the flight to pull the bag instead. I've seen it happen many times.

I've heard Delta agents several times in ATL tell people who choose not to fly that it will be a delay of xxx hours until they can retrieve their baggage if at all ... often, if they are flying the next day, they're told they can't retrieve it -- it would arrive back in Atlanta after their newly rescheduled departure. The bag in question was sent out on the original flight to wherever, so it has to travel all the way to the destination (possibly including connecting flights) then be returned to Atlanta.

On the other side of the coin, I've had many flights where I'm booked on a RJ, to a destination that has mixed RJ/mainline service. If I check in with enough time before a mainline flight departs, the bags travel on the mainline flight (saving weight and space on the smaller plane) rather than the RJ. I get there, the bags are waiting in the DL baggage office.

It's all logistics ...  Smile

- litz
 
GQfluffy
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Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:25 pm

RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting Luisde8cd (Reply 2):
Can this be considered a security breach?

Not exactly. The bag was screened. It's not really something airlines should do. We try to avoid doing it as much as possible. For several reasons. One is security, even though the bag is screened, you never know what TSA will miss. (Don't laugh while reading that...) The best one is that the passenger eventually turns up then gets angered because their bag(s) are headed to their destination and they are not. Rather amusing to see.
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
chase
Posts: 658
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:02 pm

RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:47 am

If you're stuck in the TSA line and miss the flight...I can understand your bags still going. It's clear that you at least had the intention of being on the flight.

I was recently a volunteer on an oversold flight, though, and it surprised me that my bags still went on the first flight, since in this case the reason for my not being on the plane was (mostly) under my own control.
 
Electech6299
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:13 am

RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:15 am

Quoting FXramper (Reply 4):
It's unwritten, but this happens often, much to your surprise...

Actually, it was unwritten, until now  Wink

Quoting Flypdx (Reply 10):
come on the PA of the aircraft and ask Mr. SoandSo to please press teh call button or his baggage would be offloaded.

Yes, and do you realize how many saavy business travelers would wize up to that....The announcement starts, and it's "ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-ding-"- nobody wants a flight delay, and business travelers seem to make this a priority over the perceived low probability of an actual bomb flight

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 20):
One is security, even though the bag is screened, you never know what TSA will miss. (Don't laugh while reading that...)

 laughing  sorry, I couldn't help it!  rotfl 
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
LAXintl
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RE: Off Loading Of No-show Pax Luggage

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:54 am

100% positive bag matching does not really work very well in large domestic hubs.

There are thousands of bags that travel in this country each and every day without having their owners onboard the aircraft.

By the nature of hubs, bags and passengers miss connect all the time causing one or the other to fly on different flights.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California

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