azstar
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Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:00 am

With the addition of WN and additional UA flights throught DEN as part of DEN Airport agreement, plus the inability to acquire new gates without investing millions and millions of dollars, is this the beginning of the end for F9?
 
luv2fly
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:02 am

Please I think you are counting them out in advance. First of all lets see if UA actually does what they are saying, and WN and F9 each have there own clients.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
FlyGuyClt
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:18 am

Dude, you had better duck. There is going to be a fire ball comming from New Zealand anytime now.

F9 has a great product. Lets just see how much marketing they have. People like them and they have a loyal customer base.

Safe Flying  Smile
Florida Express, Braniff II and ......
 
JayinKitsap
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:27 am

I have found F9 to be very competative from SEA to many places beyond DIA like DC and Orlando. WN is great for flights around the west but they seem to cater to the shorter flights with non and 1 stops.

I suspect they will be able to coexist with WN and still beat up UA pretty well. Yes, it can be said that WN entering Denver makes that market more competative, but they will do just fine.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:26 am

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 2):
Dude, you had better duck. There is going to be a fire ball comming from New Zealand anytime now.

 rotfl 

I plan to come back and see how Mariner fires with both barrels.

F9 will do fine. WN will have a tough time in '06 with their slightly higher cost hedges. (Ok, I'm floored by how brilliant/lucky a bet that turned out to be.)

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
azstar
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:31 am

They have been struggling with profitability for several years, their stock has tanked, they have high airport costs, and they've borrowed heavily to increase their available cash. In this competetive world, the leisure customers that F9 depends upon are only loyal to the extent that no one else has a lower fare. I wish them well, but I'm not overly optimistic about their success.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:33 am

Quoting Azstar (Reply 5):
They have been struggling with profitability for several years, their stock has tanked, they have high airport costs, and they've borrowed heavily to increase their available cash. In this competetive world, the leisure customers that F9 depends upon are only loyal to the extent that no one else has a lower fare. I wish them well, but I'm not overly optimistic about their success.

I think you should recheck your facts.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
azstar
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:39 am

Last month stock was 13.65. Now it's around 8.27. They just sold $92M worth of debentures to raise operating cash. Summer quarter profitable this year. Annual loss past two years.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:47 am

Quoting Azstar (Reply 7):
Last month stock was 13.65. Now it's around 8.27.

Show me an airline stock that is actually up in price.

I'll let mariner finish this up. It will be fun to sit back and watch the fireworks.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
burnsie28
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:55 am

I think the airline that is going to have the most trouble is Southwest. I think UA, F9 will take care of them pretty well, im predicting a WN fallout in DEN.
 
Slcpilot
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:03 am

Luv2fly,

OO. 52 week low, ~$16.50, now $29.50.

Case closed.

SLCPilot
I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
 
azstar
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:07 am

I fly F9 a lot because I live in a city that doesn't have many nonstop flights to my destinations, and I think DEN airport is the best airport, along with CVG, for connecting passengers. I've seen the good and the bad about this airline and I think my observations are generally accurate.
 
nosedive
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:17 am

Quoting Azstar (Reply 11):
I've seen the good and the bad about this airline and I think my observations are generally accurate.

Based on what? WN's 2 gates at DEN and TED?!
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:18 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 8):
Show me an airline stock that is actually up in price.

ALK : Alaska Air Group



1yr chart - 52 week low: 25.55
52 week high: 37.86

Last trade: 37.26
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
LAXintl
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:52 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 8):
Show me an airline stock that is actually up in price.

Actually airline stocks are doing great at the moment, with many at their 52 weeks highs currently.

American - 52week range 7.83-19.54 currently 19.63
Continental - 8.50-17.88, current 17.61
Airtran - 7.40-16.70, current 16.57
Southwest - 13.05 - 16.75 , current 16.57
Mesa - 4.99-12.06, current 10.19
Fedex - 76.81-101.87, current 98.60
British - 42.68-58.58, current 59.00

I can list even more, but you get the point.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
luv2fly
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:14 am

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 10):
Luv2fly,

OO. 52 week low, ~$16.50, now $29.50.

Case closed.

SLCPilot

I was talking about major carriers and not a commuter carrier.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 15):
I was talking about major carriers and not a commuter carrier.

And I gave you one. Laxintl gave you several.

You need to learn to quit while you're behind.  Wink
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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mariner
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:47 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 8):
I'll let mariner finish this up. It will be fun to sit back and watch the fireworks.

Sorry, Luv2fly, I'm afraid you going to disappoint. When I saw the thread, my reaction was to laugh. This is his second doomsday for F9 in as many weeks:

RE: F9 Screwed By DEN Airport, Again. (by AirFrnt Dec 6 2005 in Civil Aviation)#ID2474205

Do you feel that perhaps he has an agenda?   

A few facts he has wrong:

Quoting Azstar (Thread starter):
plus the inability to acquire new gates without investing millions and millions of dollars,

Frontier doesn't have to invest a dime. All they have to do is sign a long term lease, which they were not prepared to do until the United A gate issue was resolved.

Quoting Azstar (Reply 5):
They have been struggling with profitability for several years,

Which airline - apart from LUV - has not? Why - even JetBlue may be about to record a loss.

Quoting Azstar (Reply 7):
Last month stock was 13.65. Now it's around 8.27.

Wrong. FRNT's 52 week high is $13.01 (last summer), so how can it have been $13.65 last month?

Quoting Azstar (Reply 7):
They just sold $92M worth of debentures to raise operating cash.

Wrong. They just raised $92 million (10% oversubscribed) for capital expenditure, not just for operating cash.

http://www.frontierairlines.com/news...le=/general/2005/pr_12072005a.news

[i]to fund working capital and capital expenditures, including capital expenditures related to the purchase and financing of aircraft and expansion of its operations.[/]

And, just for laughs, here are the Wall Street analysts opinions on Frontier (scroll down).

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ao?s=FRNT

Can I go back to bed now?

cheers

mariner

[Edited 2005-12-08 19:55:46]

[Edited 2005-12-08 19:56:44]
aeternum nauta
 
tzadik
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:18 am

Azstar, you held your own... I'm proud. WN will not disappoint.
 
FATFlyer
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:29 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 17):
This is his second doomsday for F9 in as many weeks:

RE: F9 Screwed By DEN Airport, Again. (by AirFrnt Dec 6 2005 in Civil Aviation)#ID2474205

Do you feel that perhaps he has an agenda?

LOL I was just going to post the same question except its only been 2 days between posts not 2 weeks.

And I remember that Azstar also has previously said he feels that Frontier is not well managed. So why the recent interest?
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
rwsea
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:37 am

Quoting Azstar (Thread starter):
With the addition of WN and additional UA flights throught AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN as part of AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN Airport agreement, plus the inability to acquire new gates without investing millions and millions of dollars, is this the beginning of the end for F9?

I think WN should be kept in perspective: they're adding LAS and PHX and MDW. LAS and PHX are already served by 3 airliners each: HP, UA, AND F9. MDW/ORD is already a key trunk route for UA given their large hub at ORD. To think WN will come in and shut down F9 on three routes where they already face significant competition is completely ludicrous.

F9 has built a solid reputation in AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN as a great airline, with great service and amenities for a great price. I don't think they need to start worrying just yet.
 
azstar
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:43 am

Quoting Azstar (Reply 11):
I fly F9 a lot because I live in a city that doesn't have many nonstop flights to my destinations, and I think DEN airport is the best airport, along with CVG, for connecting passengers. I've seen the good and the bad about this airline and I think my observations are generally accurate.

The post about Denver screwing F9 was not negative about F9. If anything, it was negative towards DEN airport.

My comment that F9 is not well managed is because I've flown frequently enough to realize that when operations are normal most airlines are pretty good.. However, the test of an airline's management is how things are handled when operations are not normal, e.g. delays and cancellations. In my experience, some other airlines generally do a better job. Not always.

Talking about agenda, why the overreaction against any negative comments concerning Frontier? Every airline gets bashed occasionally, and F9 is not a perfect company.
 
2travel2know
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:55 am

Maybe if F9 would move their hub from DEN to another city in that part of the USA, they could be doing better.
For what I read here and in another topic, is seems DEN airport doesn't want F9 that much..
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
luv2fly
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:57 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 16):
And I gave you one. Laxintl gave you several.

Several of his are wrong though for the most part yes they are up. Big whoop! Also Alaska and Horizon even though separate really should be counted as one, in the big scheme of things. Also ironic that Horizon runs flights for Frontier and if not for flights for Alaska they would not be flying on there own. Also considering Alaska code share whores for almost everyone airline it is easy to fill your seats that way. And last let us not forget just how Alaska screwed the ramp employees at SEA shall we.

Maybe you should take your advise and quit why you are behind!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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mariner
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:02 am

Quoting Azstar (Reply 21):
why the overreaction against any negative comments concerning Frontier? Every airline gets bashed occasionally, and F9 is not a perfect company.

Oh, I admit to my agenda, I've done so many times.

For the record (and once again): I follow Frontier as an airline enthuisiast, as a shareholder - and as a historian.

The historian (I have three published historical books) is fascinated as to whether a tiny airline like Frontier can survive the tumultuous times we have been going through. But for an accident of booking in 1999, I could as easily have followed Midwest.

It some ways, it would be better for me if Frontier does not survive - it makes for a more dramatic ending - but the fun is that Frontier keeps proving otherwise.

Quoting Azstar (Reply 21):
why the overreaction against any negative comments concerning Frontier?

If correcting statements that are false is "over-reacting", then fine, guilty as charged. But when you state:

Quoting Azstar (Reply 7):
Last month stock was 13.65. Now it's around 8.27.

Should I allow that to go unchallenged when it is easily, provably untrue?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:17 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 23):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 16):
And I gave you one. Laxintl gave you several.

Several of his are wrong though for the most part yes they are up. Big whoop! Also Alaska and Horizon even though separate really should be counted as one, in the big scheme of things. Also ironic that Horizon runs flights for Frontier and if not for flights for Alaska they would not be flying on there own. Also considering Alaska code share whores for almost everyone airline it is easy to fill your seats that way. And last let us not forget just how Alaska screwed the ramp employees at SEA shall we.

Just admit you were wrong and move on instead of talking in circles.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ScottB
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:29 am

I strongly doubt that this is the "beginning of the end" for Frontier, but I think it's clear that the airlines in the DEN markets impacted by Southwest will see yields decline. The flip side of the coin is that traffic increases due to lower fares will ameliorate the drop in passenger revenue.

My guess is that Southwest won't initially take a big chunk of the Denver-based market, since many of these passengers are loyal to UA & F9. They will, however, pick up a lot of travelers from the cities where they are strong, like PHX, MDW, LAS, BWI, SAN, ONT, etc. I believe that the overall increase in traffic at DEN due to low-fare stimulation will provide the market size for Southwest to be successful; the other airlines in the market will also be successful if they maintain a good product and keep costs under control.
 
azstar
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:42 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 24):
Last month stock was 13.65. Now it's around 8.27.

The point is that the stock has been going down, while most other airline stocks are up. Whether it was 13.01, 13.65, 99.92 or 10.00 is irrelevant.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:44 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 25):
Just admit you were wrong and move on instead of talking in circles.

I would if I was, though since I am not I won't!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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mariner
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:59 am

Quoting Azstar (Reply 27):
Whether it was 13.01, 13.65, 99.92 or 10.00 is irrelevant.

Facts are irrelevant? Wow, that's an interesting concept.

Quoting Azstar (Reply 27):
The point is that the stock has been going down, while most other airline stocks are up.

Jetblue (JBLU) is well down from its 52 week high. Just today - arbitrarily - JBLU is down 71 cents, while FRNT is up 10 cents. Airtran (AAI) is down from it's 52 week high.

Southwest (LUV) is virtually a flatline since the middle of 2002 - and they are hugely profitable.

Quoting Azstar (Reply 27):
The point is that the stock has been going down,

I posted here that I was going to biuy FRNT at what we might call the "Southwest in Denver Low". Because of the time difference I missed it.

If I had done so, I would have made - so far - about $1 a share in about four weeks.

Next?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
stlgph
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:14 am

Quoting Azstar (Thread starter):
With the addition of WN and additional UA flights throught DEN as part of DEN Airport agreement, plus the inability to acquire new gates without investing millions and millions of dollars, is this the beginning of the end for F9?

On the 'flip side', if growth out of Denver is hampered a bit, this could be to Frontier's advantage. Let them operate into the markets they have now, nothing too dramatic happens except day to day business...work on controlling debt, pay off some outstanding debt and organized a bit. So in a few months or a year down the road, they'll be in a much stronger financial position for whatever it is they wish to do down the line whether it be in Denver or other point services they wish to explore.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Slcpilot
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:28 am

Luv2fly,

I think you'll find the income, number of pax carried, and number of destinations on this regional carrier a suprise....In fact, I think they fly to more destinations and have been more profitable (proportionally) than a certain other Luv'ly carrier.

SLCPilot

http://www.skywest.com/routemaps/rm_img/combined2_72.gif
I don't like to be fueled by anger, I don't like to be fooled by lust...
 
luv2fly
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:33 am

Quoting SLCPilot (Reply 31):
I think they fly to more destinations and have been more profitable (proportionally) than a certain other Luv'ly carrier.

The fact that they get paid for there flying and fly under other airlines name is a whole nother animal! You have to agree with me there.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:41 am

Luv2fly, why do you answer everything with, "Yeah but.... yeah but... yeah but..." when you've been shot down? Christ, you even made a slam on AS' situation with the ramp in SEA, as if it had anything to do with the topic at hand!

Move on already. You were wrong. End of story.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Guest

RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:41 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 29):
Facts are irrelevant? Wow, that's an interesting concept.

... I don't see why that's so novel. A fact can be irrelevant to a given question (to say nothing of the relevancy of those particular facts to this particular debate).
 
etops1
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:36 am

i will tell who is doomed . DELTA
 
jwb20
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:44 am

Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 9):
I think the airline that is going to have the most trouble is Southwest. I think UA, F9 will take care of them pretty well, im predicting a WN fallout in DEN.

I think that WN will have the most trouble to. WN has gone to DEN before and pulled out. I don't think that they can compete with F9 or UA.

GOOD LUCK WN
Flying is a mans bestfriend
 
LAXintl
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:10 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 23):
Several of his are wrong though for the most part yes they are up.

Actually my numbers were 100% correct as of 1:45pm Eastern time.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
Simpilicity
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:23 am

they just have to think smarter. What about operating out of COS as well?
 
luv2fly
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:43 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 33):
Luv2fly, why do you answer everything with, "Yeah but.... yeah but... yeah but..." when you've been shot down? Christ, you even made a slam on AS' situation with the ramp in SEA, as if it had anything to do with the topic at hand!

Move on already. You were wrong. End of story.

Not sure who died and left you Boss, Yeah but I am not wrong and I do not have to take orders from you......

Suggestion if you do not like reading what I post simple solution, stop reading and trying your hardest to try and always be right, which you are not.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
flyguy595
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:04 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 38):
they just have to think smarter. What about operating out of COS as well?

I seem to remember a certain Western Pacific low fare airline that couldn't make it in COS. I don't think there is enough customer base? Plus there isn't that much more room to grow in COS and F9 would have to service every city from DEN and COS they way they manage the routes

Quoting FlyGuyClt (Reply 2):
F9 has a great product. Lets just see how much marketing they have. People like them and they have a loyal customer base


F9 is loved in DEN and people go out of their way to stay off UAL and people are loyal to F9

I can think of someone who would pay ample amounts to fly F9 and
stay off UAL even if he was upgraded to first and it was all free. *cough* Kahala777 *ughhuumm*  box 
 
nosedive
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:14 pm

Quoting Flyguy595 (Reply 40):
*cough* Kahala777 *ughhuumm*

 rotfl Don't you mean LHR001?

Quoting Azstar (Reply 27):
Whether it was 13.01, 13.65, 99.92 or 10.00 is irrelevant.

I gotta ask, if you're using this as the basis as to why you "know" F9 is doomed, why did you even ask the question, "Is F9 doomed?"
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:16 pm

Ouch!!

Looking at that routemap I see thay skywest fly ORD to YEG.

That's an awful long trip on an RJ right? 3 hrs or so?



Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
flashmeister
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:27 pm

Each time we go through the same procedure... "they're not well-run" ... "they don't have a future plan" ... "they're not consistently profitable" ... and each time, F9 proves people wrong. They have some of the lowest ex-fuel CASM in the industry. They've proven that a low-cost model works against a strong legacy fortress hub in an expensive airport.

Show me another airline that has proven each of those. AirTran? Low-cost and very strong fortress hub, but at a cheap airport. JetBlue? What fortress hub did they crack?

In fact, one could say that F9 has been so successful that now WN is imitating them, rather than the other way around. After all, they entered Philly and announced Denver, right?

When considering F9's record, one should remember that imitation is, after all, the highest form of flattery.
 
rdwelch
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:38 pm

All things considered, F9's executive management has a firm hold on the VERY fluid nature of DIA. UA was able to force out a legacy carrier in CO from DIA hub status in 1995-6. Granted CO was going through another "restructuring" (bankruptcy), but given the tenacity that F9 shows to the "bully neighbor" next door, you have to give it to F9.

Denver travelers will try the WN product, and then realize what a great thing they have with the competitive prices, if not better to shared markets, the assigned seating, non-stop to 47 more destinations, including 8 in Mexico, and Direct TV which can't be beat on the long hops with kids. (Even better with ESPN getting Monday Night Football next year)

A319/318 seats are somewhat more spacious compared to the B737 aircraft operated by WN. You might say it will be a wash, but if that's the case, why go into a market you left when you got your booty kicked when you where at Stapleton?

Sorry for the bias. I love WN, but F9 shouldn't worry, it's the carrier that's been in bankruptcy for 3 years.

Gus.
They say I have ADD, but they don't understand..Oh look! A chicken!
 
BMIFlyer
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:45 pm

Slightly off topic, but does anyone know what gates WN will have at DEN??


Thanks

Lee
Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own
 
rampart
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RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:36 pm

Quoting Flyguy595 (Reply 40):
I seem to remember a certain Western Pacific low fare airline that couldn't make it in COS. I don't think there is enough customer base? Plus there isn't that much more room to grow in COS and F9 would have to service every city from DEN and COS they way they manage the routes

Recall that Western Pacific failed AFTER they moved their hub to Denver. F9 had the opportunity to buy them, but chose not to, so that hasn't seemed to affect them other than to let a competitor die off on their own. Both started roughly the same time. I think WP could have faired better had they stayed in COS. I think most agree that their downfall was their overaggressive expansion, not their hub (everyone who flew through COS loved the convenience, and COS was attracting Denver customers). COS is the 84th ranked metro area in the country. Add the southern half of the Denver MSA, plus the rest of southern Colorado, and that's a big watershed. Given the commuter traffic between Denver and Colorado Springs (both ways), they might be seen as one air market, and large metro areas can and do support more than one commercial airport.

COS has a concourse of about 5 gates waiting for an airline with small hub or focus city operations, plus relatively disused gates on their main concourse. It wouldn't support the level of operation F9 has in Denver (I'm amazed that COS handled all the WP traffic). However, following a Jetblue model, F9 could conceivably establish operations to some select points from a separate regional airport.

So yes, it did surprise me when WN chose Denver, but it seems their plan of attack has changed in the last couple years. No need for them to try auxiliary airports any more, they go in for the big thing and compete. That doesn't say that additional or alternative service to COS wouldn't work, though the Denver choices are getting to be maybe overcapacitized.

Rampart
 
dallas74
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:09 am

RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:39 pm

Quoting SJC>SFO (Reply 34):
... I don't see why that's so novel. A fact can be irrelevant to a given question (to say nothing of the relevancy of those particular facts to this particular debate).

When someone uses a "fact" to make their point and then it's refuted it's not irrelevant because it strikes at the overall accuracy of the underlying message.

In my opinion Frontier will do just fine with Southwest entering the market. The casualty is going to be TED. Everyone talks as if TED is going to last forever. Eventually UAL is going to have to show the P&L on this division to someone and not offer comments like, "its performing to expectations", and other vague generalities.
 
dallas74
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2004 1:09 am

RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:46 pm

Quoting Azstar (Reply 21):
My comment that F9 is not well managed is because I've flown frequently enough to realize that when operations are normal most airlines are pretty good.. However, the test of an airline's management is how things are handled when operations are not normal, e.g. delays and cancellations.

I left NYC on 9/10/2001 on Frontier Airlines bound for Los Angeles. We all know what happened on 9/11. My return trip was on Friday 9/14/2001. While most other airlines attempted to get back into the air Frontier Airlines took me all the way to LGA that night. I had other business associates on the West Coast trying to get home as well. I was the only one who made it back on Friday. Others didn't get home until Tuesday of the following week. I was very impressed with Frontiers commitment to the customer and their ability to get moving again after the horrible events of 9/11.

I've also been on Frontier when we've been diverted to COS or delayed due to weather in Denver. Never had a problem. They have even held flights when the LGA inbound was running late. Find another airline that will do that for you.

Frontier is very well run and is customer sensitive. I have been a Summit Member with them for five years and I have yet to have a poor experience with them.
 
azstar
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 5:25 am

RE: Is F9 Doomed?

Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:09 am

Date Research Firm Action From To

9-Dec-05 Goldman Sachs Downgrade Outperform In-Line

Most airline stocks opened slightly lower this morning, except Jetblue, up slightly. However F9 opened at 8.00 down 6.19%, the largest decrease, by far. Investors seem to be concerned.

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