762er
Topic Author
Posts: 522
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2001 8:18 am

Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:07 am

In particular I was wondering if someone in the know could tell me how interhub routes (MEM-MSP and MEM-DTW) have been performing recently in terms of profitability and load factor? What are some of the other most profitable routes out of MEM on NW? Does the short haul rj and prop stuff operated by Mesaba and Pinnacle do descently? If so what are some of the more and less profitable routes? Can anyone out there provide margins by route? What percentage of the routes would you say have positive margins out of MEM (I can't imagine it'd be that high). As you can see I'd love to gather as much data and info as possible. Just curious. Thanks so much to anyone who can shed some light on this topic.
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:25 pm

I wouldn't use the words "MEM" and "Profitability" within the context of NW  Wink
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:42 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 1):
I wouldn't use the words "MEM" and "Profitability" within the context of NW

Do you have access to info that is not available to the rest of us?
 
Indy
Posts: 3957
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:55 pm

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 2):
Do you have access to info that is not available to the rest of us?

Do you? Unless you do and can provide numbers your opinion on this isn't any better than DLKAPA's.

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 1):
I wouldn't use the words "MEM" and "Profitability" within the context of NW

It may or may not be profitable. There are some things to consider if you want an idea whether it is or not. The money is in O/D. Where does MEM rank when it comes to O/D versus connecting passengers on a flight? That alone won't tell you whether they are making money or losing money. You could have low loads and still make money if you can keep your operating costs down. If you could be profitable with low loads wouldn't you expect to see a stable or growing schedule instead of reductions? If you are making a profit you don't cut back.

Ok maybe the entire operation is losing money and you have to figure out which of the 3 domestic hubs is the weakest link. Look where most of the cuts are coming and you should have an answer. They are going to make the cuts where they are performing the worst not the best.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:10 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 3):
Do you? Unless you do and can provide numbers your opinion on this isn't any better than DLKAPA's.

I don't have an opinion on it but I would like to form one. Thus I asked for any info DLKAPA might have. I would hope the statement was made with some information to back it up. I would hate to think that a member would just make up things with no basis of fact. I wonder what he knows about the Northwest contract and pension offers to the pilots and mechanics?
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:36 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 2):

Do you have access to info that is not available to the rest of us?

Not insider access but I believe NW's O&D out of MEM is somewhere on the short side of 30%.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4471
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:21 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 5):
Not insider access but I believe NW's O&D out of MEM is somewhere on the short side of 30%.

Not sure what this means. In a hub operation O&D is only a part of the aircraft load. Are you saying that NWA does not carry very good loads on its MEM flights on a daily basis? Where did you get the figure of less than 30% O&D?
 
LambertMan
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 1:26 pm

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:00 am

Memphis has a great deal of intangible value to an airline with two hubs in the extreme northern portion of the United States. Memphis is a really hard hub to evaluate in the financial sense because how do you compare a benefit that you can't really weigh to the amount of money they are losing from the operation itself? Will be interesting to see what happens.
 
CIDFlyer
Posts: 1894
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:53 am

for what it's worth, every flight I have been on through MEM over the last eight years has been full or near capacity...that includes flights from MEM to the hubs and vice versa, I can remember taking a fully loaded DC10 from MSP to MEM and vice versa back in '01 and '02 and again, all flights full.
 
m404
Posts: 1875
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2003 4:43 pm

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:36 am

Take that last post from CIDflyer, add the comment that not all flights are full but close, stir with NWs BK goal of lowering costs, and bingo. It's the same flights, same planes (big?) and add the word "profit"
Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 9:55 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 6):
Not sure what this means. In a hub operation O&D is only a part of the aircraft load. Are you saying that NWA does not carry very good loads on its MEM flights on a daily basis?

No, I'm saying that only 30% of the filled seats out of MEM are O&D. The rest of the seats filled are filled with connecting passengers.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
762er
Topic Author
Posts: 522
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2001 8:18 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:18 pm

SO nobody's been able to tell me anything for sure (i.e. educated guess are all we have so far). Are there really no NW insiders out there that can tell me how MEM-MSP/DTW perform? Even just saying if it's profitable or not on a yearly basis. Thanks again.
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 6:05 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:22 pm

I flew GSO-DTW-MEM-TUP today (saturday)

... I flew the 12:01 pm flight to MEM on a DC-9-40, and there were only 2 empty seats. GSO-DTW was about 90% full on a CRJ, and the MEM-TUP had 14 passengers on a Saab340. With large crowds in the airport, MEM was hopping as usual, even on a saturday.
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
762er
Topic Author
Posts: 522
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2001 8:18 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:05 pm

ANyone else...sending her back to the top.
 
Tornado82
Posts: 4662
Joined: Thu May 26, 2005 10:19 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:19 pm

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 1):
I wouldn't use the words "MEM" and "Profitability" within the context of NW Wink

I wouldn't use the word Profitability with NW. Whether it's MEM, DTW, or MSP. But that's just me.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2496
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Northwest MEM Hub Profitability?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:22 pm

Quoting 762er (Reply 11):
Are there really no NW insiders out there that can tell me how MEM-MSP/DTW perform?

I doubt that there's no worry about those particular markets. If nothing else, they get enough feed traffic to be profitable from MEM. Given the number of daily flights, feed is more important than profit. It's every other route from MEM that's the problem. NWA could close MEM and feel DL at ATL and probably make more money.