atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:37 am

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10240654/

Marion Blakely (FAA Administrator) has told negotiators that she would like moderators to watch over the NATCA/FAA Contract negotiations. This comes after the fact that we controllers do not want to take a 30% pay cut.

Im Sorry, but in any job that deals with safety (including pilots), I do not believe the pay should be cut as drastically as 30%. We are responsible for more lives in one shift than a surgeon deals with in his entire career. Cutting pay and contracting facilities is making it so the US Government and the FAA bid out safety, a controllers #1 concern, to the lowest bidder.

Any US Citizens out there, I beg you to please write your congressman and senators about this issue and let them know that we do not want the safety of our skies to given to the lowest bidder!


Sincerely,

Clint (ATCT)
Trikes are for kids!
 
jdwfloyd
Posts: 799
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:29 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:19 am

The last thing I want to be thinking about while I have 15 heavies on my scope that are all asking for vectors around a line of level 5's are financial issues. The reason we are paid so well is because they public wants us happy and focused on our jobs.
 
lahaina
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2000 1:51 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:35 am

Instead of asking the traffic controllers take pay cuts, why not ask the US president, US congressmen and congresswomen, along with house members all take a 30% pay cut? Sad, but our elected officials only look after their own tails. As for Marion Blakely, is she taking Thai 30% pay cut as well?
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2003
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:15 pm

Hyperbole much?


According to the FAA, the controllers proposed a 5.6 percent increase, which would bring their average total compensation to over $200,000 within four years.

The FAA includes pension and other benefits in its calculation of how much controllers earn, however. The agency says the average controller earns $166,000 a year, but only $128,000 of that is in the form of wages.


Not going to get a huge amount of sympathy here, especially not with the large large cuts everyone else in the Airline industry.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:21 pm

Quoting ATCT (Thread starter):
Im Sorry, but in any job that deals with safety (including pilots), I do not believe the pay should be cut as drastically as 30%.

Why not, if needed? Pilots have seen 30% pay cuts. So have flight attendants. Mechanics have seen them too. Does that make them more prone to error while performing their duties? I doubt it.

I'm not saying that they should be forced to take pay cuts, but taking a pay cut will not effect their work. I'd rather see more air traffic controllers with less pay to provide for a higher controller/aircraft ratio.

AAndrew
 
ajaytolani
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:34 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:09 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 4):

First of all, your comparing Mechanics and Flight attendant's to Air Traffic Controllers?

Flight attendants don't even come close to the stress, responsibilities and or training that air traffic controllers face on a constant basis. To be a flight attendant, is a privilege. You get to fly all over the world and all that is required from you is to provide customer service for your passengers. Furthermore, all you need is a High School Diploma to become a flight attendant. Becoming an air traffic controller, requires much more.

Mechanics have a big responsibility in terms of safety, but they are working on a specific task at any one given time. Air Traffic Controllers are constantly faced with weather, traffic, co-ordination, military training areas, etc. Our work load is so high that if your not giving a 100% the likelihood of an accident goes up.

If Air Traffic Controllers are not compensated adequately, those seeking to become future Air Traffic Controllers will continue their education to move onto better paying jobs leaving the skies over America being sought after by low paid unskilled workers.

[Edited 2005-12-11 05:12:33]

[Edited 2005-12-11 05:16:55]
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1574
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:37 pm

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 3):
The FAA includes pension and other benefits in its calculation of how much controllers earn, however. The agency says the average controller earns $166,000 a year, but only $128,000 of that is in the form of wages.

Got news for you. That's BULLSHIT. It's the same tactic airline management used when they use to tell everyone the pilots were making 350k pa to fly twice a month.
Air Traffic Controllers pay is public information easily found on the net. Oh by the way. The highest ATC grade is ATC 13. There are no ATC 13 facilities. The highest grade controller is an ATC 12. When you read the ATC 12 grade, realize that nobody is at the top of that grade, and will not be for several years to come.

I'm happy to clear up any other misinformation the agency may have provided.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1574
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:42 pm

Quoting Lahaina (Reply 2):
As for Marion Blakely, is she taking Thai 30% pay cut as well?

No, she isn't. Nor is she giving up the FAA executive jet she flies around in. Just like the airline executives, pay cuts are for the small people.

Speaking of airlines. Someone asked me just the other day if I had noticed American Airlines was cutting it's losses since Mr. Chew left and went to work at the FAA. I found that an interesting question.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1574
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:48 pm

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 3):
Not going to get a huge amount of sympathy here, especially not with the large large cuts everyone else in the Airline industry.

ATC isn't in the "Airline industry." ATC separates Airline, Military, Corporate, and General Aviation. If the Airlines disappeared tomorrow there would still be work to do.

When the airlines were knocking down the big profits, ATC didn't get anything out of it. Why now should cutting pay be related to the industry?
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1574
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:00 pm

Quoting Ajaytolani (Reply 5):
Flight attendants don't even come close to the stress, responsibilities and or training that air traffic controllers face on a constant basis.

I agree. I have friends who are FAs.

Quoting Ajaytolani (Reply 5):
To be a flight attendant, is a privilege. You get to fly all over the world and all that is required from you is to provide customer service for your passengers.

You're smoking crack if you believe this. "a privilege"??? No, they earn their pay just like any other working person. Their pay is way too low and falling.
The rest of this quote is an ignorant insult to their profession. FA is a safety related position. Customer service is a secondary that goes with that position.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
ajaytolani
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2005 6:34 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:40 pm

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 9):
You're smoking crack if you believe this. "a privilege"??? No, they earn their pay just like any other working person. Their pay is way too low and falling.
The rest of this quote is an ignorant insult to their profession. FA is a safety related position. Customer service is a secondary that goes with that position.

Im not insulting their profession by any means.
Safety Related position I agree. On a scale of 1-10 though a controller's responsibility for safety is a 10 compared to a flight attendant who would probably fall at a 5. At any given time controllers are responsible for thousands of lives in multi million dollar airplanes flying close to the speed of sound under various weather conditions. Since 9/11 they have placed marshals on board aircrafts and the FAA has placed extra scrutiny on safety and security of US registered aircraft making the flight attendants job slightly easier. Is it a privilege to be a flight attendant, Ofcourse ! What kind of a job lets you see the world and pays you at the same time. If you or they feel that their pay is "too low and falling", maybe they should consider a career change and let those F/A's who are laid off have their job back!

Furthermore- I think Pilot Pay is too low and falling.

[Edited 2005-12-11 07:41:58]
 
swaopsusafatc
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:20 pm

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:59 pm

I am an Air force Air Traffic Control Specialist and plan on going to the FAA when I separate in 2008.

In regards to f/a's Vs. ATC: FA's most stressful part of the job may never be encountered. How many can say they were in a crash and had to evacuate a full load of PAX? A small percentage, I obviously don't have a number. Now don't get me wrong it can be a hard job dealing with delays, irate PAX, contract issues, crew scheduling, full short flights (in flight service). But these can't be compared to ATC.

How many ATC's can say they have a daily dose of adrenaline due to
weather, saturated airspace, emergencies, flight splits (military a/c), runway closures, student pilots in busy airspace (sorry), language barrier with international carriers (I'm in South Korea right now and this is a killer). I could go on and on about the daily factors that make this job one of the most demanding around. The current pay is a fair trade off.

-SWAOPSusafATC
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1574
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:30 pm

Quoting Ajaytolani (Reply 10):
Is it a privilege to be a flight attendant, Ofcourse ! What kind of a job lets you see the world and pays you at the same time.

What they see is the worlds hotel rooms. They may, on occasion, get time for a quick look at a foreign city. It's not the glamour gig the job show film makes it out to be.

Quoting Ajaytolani (Reply 10):
Since 9/11 they have placed marshals on board aircrafts and the FAA has placed extra scrutiny on safety and security of US registered aircraft making the flight attendants job slightly easier.

Could you explain this one to me? I've tried looking at it from several points of view. FA and Air Marshal duties seem completely different to me aside from they operate in the same location.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: FAA Wants "Moderators" At Contract Talks

Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:47 am

In regards to the administrator:

The FAA is try to cut costs across the board and what do we see down at DCA...a brand spanking new Citation Soverign....What was so wrong with the Lear 60? It ran fine, its an efficient aircraft? No comment from here.


I could see agreeing to a pay freeze for say 2 or 3 years, but a pay cut, hardly. At the tower I am in now, we dont get any airline traffic, but only G/a (4500ft runway). When you have 5 P28A's, 1 C152, 2 PA44's, and a lear on the localizer, you are busy. Granted I dont have to deal with a 747 with "300 people on board", but a cessna 152 is just as important as a heavy 74. (We make for the Safe, orderly, and expeditous flow of traffic, nothing to do with passenger loads).


In Regards to the airline industry:
They are a FOR PROFIT industry. We work for the United Stated Government, Depart of Transportation, Federal Aviation Administration. We are funded by the tax payers dollars. The FAA should not be out to make a profit. The job of the FAA, regardless of what anyone at the FAA or elsewhere says, is to run a system that makes the skies safe for all who use it. Im sorry, but anyone out there who contracts safety out to the lowest bidder does not truly have the goa of safety in their hearts.


ATCT
Trikes are for kids!

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