Capt.Fantastic
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AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:46 am

To my understanding, from Vail, American Airlines serves, DFW, LAX, ORD and EWR: My question is: Why Newark and not JFK or even LGA, where AA has a stronger presence and could offer connecting service … It seems like JFK or LGA would make more sense than Newark – Also, I believe JFK is closer to the more affluent neighborhoods – likely visitors to Vail.
 
DLKAPA
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:47 am

I thought CO ran the EWR flight?
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Newark777
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:49 am

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Thread starter):
Also, I believe JFK is closer to the more affluent neighborhoods – likely visitors to Vail.

You obviously haven't been to many of the affluent areas in northern NJ. Anyway, LGA would be closer to the more affluent neighborhoods in Westchester County and that area.

Harry
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FoxBravo
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:54 am

AA does fly nonstop from LGA to EGE every Saturday during ski season, as they have for many years now. I'm sure they would operate this flight every day if they could, but remember that EGE falls outside the 1500-mi perimeter around LGA, so flights are limited to Saturdays.

As for JFK, I don't think it really offers any advantage over EWR in terms of access to affluent neighborhoods.

DLKAPA, CO does also fly EWR to EGE--I believe it was a weekend 757 service in the past, and this season will be daily with 73Gs. However, AA has flown daily from EWR to EGE using 757s for quite some time.

[Edited 2005-12-10 22:56:00]
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STT757
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:37 am

AA has been flying EWR-EGE every winter for atleast 10 years, they obviously have their reasons for having the flights out of EWR.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
F27XXX
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:09 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
AA has been flying EWR-EGE every winter for atleast 10 years, they obviously have their reasons for having the flights out of EWR.



Well, now, wasn't that a helpful contribution!? Thaaaaanks!
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Capt.Fantastic
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:53 am

F27XXX: ST757's comment is a very useful contribution to to this discussion - If AA has flown the route for 10 years, its obviously profitable and warrants continued service - I'm sure AA has built up a loyal clientele in that time.

Even after AA broke-down their hub in RDU, they still continued their transatlantic service ... who would have thought.
 
F27XXX
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:53 am

You asked:

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Thread starter):
My question is: Why Newark and not JFK or even LGA,

He answered:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
they obviously have their reasons for having the flights out of EWR.

And you wrote:

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 6):
ST757's comment is a very useful contribution to to this discussion

I dont get it, but if that answer was helpful to you, then that's all that counts.
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uadc8contrail
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:58 am

also AA will fly to lax on sat only......
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jfklganyc
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:41 am

AA flies LGA and EWR to EGE.

I thought it was both on Saturdays, but who knows?

As for EWR . . . yuppies go to Vail from NY. Manhattan is the yuppie capital of the world.

EWR has the perception of being easier to get to from Manhattan. I say perception because I don't agree.

AA marketing knows that perception means money . . . and money is good. It would probably be a LGA flight if it wasn't for the flight ring because LGA is closest to Manhattan.

PJ
 
IslipWN
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:55 pm

I have never heard of the LGA-EGE flight... are you sure you're not mistaken? We fly the EWR-EGE route every year to go skiing at Beaver Creek. We would much rather fly the LGA-EGE route rather then the EWR-EGE route as EWR is about an hour away on a good day.
 
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STT757
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 12:58 pm

EWR-EGE is daily (757), LGA-EGE is Saturday only. It's been like that for years.

Strange enough all these years (this year included) AA flew daily nonstop EWR-EGE while CO also flies EWR-EGE however only twice weekly.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
Simpilicity
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:12 pm

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Thread starter):
I believe JFK is closer to the more affluent neighborhoods – likely visitors to Vail.

You hardly need to be affluent to ski Colorado !!!!! Even poor Australians can ski there !!!
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:48 pm

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Thread starter):
To my understanding, from Vail, American Airlines serves, DFW, LAX, ORD and EWR

They also serve Vail-LaGuardia on Saturdays, as mentioned, and Vail-Miami on Saturdays and Sundays.

Quoting Uadc8contrail (Reply 8):
also AA will fly to lax on sat only......

No, LAX-EGE is daily this winter. AA's Vail service during the winter to Miami, Newark, and Los Angeles are all revenue guaranteed, though they are all profitable enough that they don't have to dip into the fund, which is provided by local resorts.
a.
 
dinker225
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:28 pm

For everything you ever wanted to know about flying into EGE they created a website. www.flyvail.com Every route they fly is on that website. Hope it helps.

Dinker

[Edited 2005-12-11 07:29:46]
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SHUPirate1
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:10 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
No, LAX-EGE is daily this winter.

Between December 15th and February 2nd, AA2291 (EGE-LAX) and AA2292 (LAX-EGE) are only being run 5x weekly (X23)...starting February 3rd, those two flights revert to daily for the balance of the winter season.
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fxramper
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:31 pm

Quoting Newark777 (Reply 2):
You obviously haven't been to many of the affluent areas in northern NJ.

Hence the post, jerk.  Sad We aren't all know-it-alls dude.

Are any of the destinations seasonal to EGE for AA?
 
UAPremierGuy
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:41 pm

Side-note, I know, but I think UA is greatly under-serving EGE, and just curious as to why that is? Any ideas?

They have a weekly to SFO this year, and daily mainline and UAX service to DEN, but that is it. I would think that with UA's strong Colorado presence, and its hub in DEN, it would offer more point-to-point service from EGE throughout the US. Any idea why they are not doing it? I know EGE is a high-rev airport during certain times of the year...is it due to aircraft availability?

Also, I know they were awarded the contract for ORD-EGE this past summer for summer ops. I was scheduled on one of those flights this summer, but my flight out of DCA was delayed, so I missed it and re-routed through DEN, and thanks to some friendly gate-staff got to go to ASE (my home) rather than EGE. Any idea on how this ORD-EGE flight performed this past summer? I hope UA decides to boost service out of EGE. Non-stop 146 service out of ASE to SFO & ORD would also be AWESOME, but as ZW service is ending soon, this likely isn't going to happen  Sad
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Simpilicity
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:04 am

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 17):
Non-stop 146 service out of ASE to SFO & ORD would also be AWESOME, but as ZW service is ending soon, this likely isn't going to happen

Getting to EGE or ASE for Australians ina major pain in the arse. In most cases in means going via DEN, as can't get into LAX early enough on UA or QF to connect with UA express 146 to ASE & I don't think any am flights LAX/EGE.

Could anyone fly EG. HNL/EGE ? I guess 752 aircraft would be largest aircrft that could take off from EGE with full load (not weight restricted), although couldn't say a 763Er (maybe from OZ) from HNL/EGE & then continue on to some other U.S. port east of EGE. I guess the problem remains, a 763ER with a full load might not be able to take off from EGE & make HNL (what's alternate to HNL apart from other HA islands ? )
 
commavia
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:38 am

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Thread starter):
Why Newark and not JFK or even LGA, where AA has a stronger presence and could offer connecting service

Several reasons. First, AA has a very strong presence in the greater New York area overall, and that includes Newark. AA has a very loyal following in northern New Jersey (granted, nothing compared to CO, but still there) and AA is the second largest airline at EWR after CO/CO Express. Secondly, from EWR, AA can fly daily to EGE, which is popular with New York flyers during the peak winter months when demand is really high and so many from the Tri-State area are going to Vail. The LGA flight, due to perimiter restrictions, can only be flown on Saturday. And, while it's quite popular, the huge amount of high-yield O&D volume between the New York metro area and Vail requires a nonstop, which in turn means JFK or EWR. AA chose EWR over JFK.

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 1):
I thought CO ran the EWR flight?

CO also flies EWR-EGE seasonally.

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 17):
I think UA is greatly under-serving EGE, and just curious as to why that is? Any ideas?

A big part of the reason is that AA is so strong in EGE. Even during the peak winter months, all the other U.S. airlines' service to EGE is nothing compared to AA's service. This winter, during peak season, AA is going to be bringing 42 757s into EGE each week from six U.S. cities -- DFW, ORD, LAX, LGA, EWR and MIA. That's more flights to more cities than any other airline, by far. UA (and all the other airlines) have a hard time competing with such a dominant presence like that.

Quoting UAPremierGuy (Reply 17):
I would think that with UA's strong Colorado presence, and its hub in DEN, it would offer more point-to-point service from EGE throughout the US. Any idea why they are not doing it?

You answered your own question. UA has an enormous hub 120 miles to the east that draws in huge amounts of traffic, and UA prefers (understandably) to funnel traffic through the hub that's so close by rather than overflying such a strong, vibrant hub to serve EGE nonstop. Besides, their seasonal winter coverage from SFO and ORD, plus the frequent feeder flights to and from DEN, cover the market well given the competitive presence of AA in the market, plus CO, DL, NW, US, etc.
 
Newark777
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:29 pm

Quoting FXramper (Reply 16):
Hence the post, jerk. Sad We aren't all know-it-alls dude.

Haha, don't have to be a douche, I wasn't trying to insult you. Dude.

Harry
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Tornado82
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:29 pm

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 6):
Even after AA broke-down their hub in RDU, they still continued their transatlantic service ... who would have thought.

Yeah, because it's subsidized to the point that they could fly empty seats and just some cargo and still be break-even.

Quoting JFKLGANYC (Reply 9):
if it wasn't for the flight ring because LGA is closest to Manhattan.

I realize the 757 is a rocket, but does it take any penalties on LGA to EGE?

Quoting Commavia (Reply 19):
First, AA has a very strong presence in the greater New York area overall, and that includes Newark. AA has a very loyal following in northern New Jersey (granted, nothing compared to CO, but still there

If they're so strong in Northern NJ/Tri-state... surprising they at least don't throw a CRJ-700 to DFW, or ERJ-145 to ORD from ABE. A sizable chunk of Northern NJ is closer (time wise because of traffic) to ABE than EWR... and ABE is one of those glorious airports that you can drive onto airport property 45 minutes before departure and still make it to your gate with time to spare. Try that at EWR, lol.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 2:55 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 19):
First, AA has a very strong presence in the greater New York area overall, and that includes Newark. AA has a very loyal following in northern New Jersey (granted, nothing compared to CO, but still there) and AA is the second largest airline at EWR after CO/CO Express. Secondly, from EWR, AA can fly daily to EGE, which is popular with New York flyers during the peak winter months when demand is really high and so many from the Tri-State area are going to Vail. The LGA flight, due to perimiter restrictions, can only be flown on Saturday. And, while it's quite popular, the huge amount of high-yield O&D volume between the New York metro area and Vail requires a nonstop, which in turn means JFK or EWR. AA chose EWR over JFK.

It is a little deeper than that. When American Airlines launched New York City-Vail/Eagle service, it was (and still is) part of a revenue guarantee package from local resorts. They wanted a daily service to New York City. At the time, JFK's domestic service was very bare compared to Newark's and LaGuardia, as mentioned, can only be done on Saturdays. Hence, they chose Newark-Eagle. The flight has a loyal following and is still revenue guaranteed (though the revenue bank on the NYC/MIA-EGE flights has not been dipped into for a long time), so there has never been an incentive to change it to JFK, although now that CO is offering daily EWR-EGE service starting this winter, who knows what will happen.
a.
 
9252fly
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Mon Dec 12, 2005 3:03 pm

Quoting F27XXX (Reply 7):
Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 6):
ST757's comment is a very useful contribution to to this discussion

I dont get it, but if that answer was helpful to you, then that's all that counts

I think he was being sarcastic!  Smile
 
iowaman
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:40 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
I realize the 757 is a rocket, but does it take any penalties on LGA to EGE?

With a 7,000 foot runway, cold temperatures, and full fuel not required, I wouldn't think it would be an issue.
 
ltbewr
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 2:55 am

I would also suggest that EWR also offers via AA and other airlines better connections than LGA or JFK for those EGE flights. That would be especially true for those traveling from elsewhere in the Northeast USA or even Europe and need to change/connect to go to/from EGE. EWR doesn't have the perimitar restrictions of LGA and offers more domestic connections than JFK.
 
dartland
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:10 am

I don't have the figures, but I would hazard that AAs EWR-EGE and LGA-EGE flights are VERY high % O&D -- so connections are likely not the issue, which is why AA has no need to tap into its int'l operations at JFK.

As stated above, this flight has quite a following (just try and get frequent flier seats on it -- no way! you'll end up through ORD guaranteed!) and EWR offers a more attractive market than JFK given its proximity to Manhattan and NJ, and virtually equal share of Westchester traffic as compared to JFK (now if only they had HPN-EGE non-stop! That would be awesome!)
 
commavia
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:24 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 21):
If they're so strong in Northern NJ/Tri-state... surprising they at least don't throw a CRJ-700 to DFW, or ERJ-145 to ORD from ABE. A sizable chunk of Northern NJ is closer (time wise because of traffic) to ABE than EWR

Why would AA launch an entirely new station (paying to set it up, hire and train staff, buy equipment, lease gates and facilities, etc.) when they already have a strong presence at EWR that covers just about all the demand from northern New Jersey that any airline would need?
 
Tornado82
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:03 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 27):
when they already have a strong presence at EWR that covers just about all the demand from northern New Jersey that any airline would need?

Because in doing that they're also missing a large chunk 700,000 person MSA that is ABE, in addition to the aforementioned NJ-ers. I'm not saying fly ABE to EGE, which would just be laughable, but I'm saying they're the only "legacy" not in town, and while already with their minor buildup in EWR in what are sometimes fare bloodbaths, ABE is high-yielding as hell because it's virgin land to LCC's, Hooters/Allegiant aside.
 
commavia
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:13 am

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 28):
Because in doing that they're also missing a large chunk 700,000 person MSA that is ABE

No they're not. AA covers the area quite nicely with PHL and EWR, both of which provide ample access to the population center between the two. Is it covering the ABE market as well as serving ABE itself? Of course not. But again, there is absolutely no need for AA to spend the money required to open an entirely new station when they already have two stations serving the market just fine.
 
tommy767
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RE: AA: EGE - EWR?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:00 pm

I always wondered about the randomly placed EWR-EGE flight. I've been to EGE before and it is an EXTREMELY small airport. It is safe to say that many New Jerseyians want to go out west to ski because of the quality and quantity of powdered snow vs. the icy snow of the east. Yes, I would also agree that AA has a loyalty to some residents in NJ (myself included) however most people I know fly CO as their choice carrier (granted that does not include the whole population of NJ.) With AA having six gates at EWR, that's a lot for any carrier to possess considering the dominant hub of CO.

In addition, when I was in EGE I noticed that AA really had the largest presence there of any other carrier, with UA having virtually no flights (DEN is two hours down the road.)

Tommy in EWR/LAX.
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