JetCaptain
Topic Author
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 2:57 am

First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:28 am

Rumour has it First Air has a fancy new colour scheme on their latest B732 they just put into service (replacing the B721 on passenger routes out of YOW). Complete with picture decals on the tail, a la Frontier. Any pics ?

JC

[Edited 2005-12-12 22:31:45]
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:52 am

We do..I really like it.

Today was our second day of opeation with it.

I have some photo's of it but until i am sure our marketing has released the photos i am not going to post any. Especially the ones from in the hangar. I am not going to lose my job over some Photo's...  

Hint: Think Frontier with an Inuit Theme

GS

[Edited 2005-12-12 22:55:48]

It is on the 7f Website...but if you little better pic let me know...

[Edited 2005-12-12 22:59:51]
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
User avatar
Vasu
Posts: 2940
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2005 5:34 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:19 am

There's a small picture of it in here:

http://www.firstair.ca/seatsale/eng.pdf
 
Mainliner
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:34 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:52 pm

Great...more eurowhite.


Did I read that right? 37 inch pitch!?  eyepopping 
Every flight counts.
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2869
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 5:00 pm

Quoting Mainliner (Reply 3):
Did I read that right? 37 inch pitch!?

it's Canada... it might be centimeters. And i hear Canadian feet are way smaller than American ones.

just kidding ofcourse. But that is quite impressive. I guess not that many people go to Iqaluit, but they still wanted a mainline jet, but with less seats, I am sure they can charge whatever they want as theres not much competition, so i am thinking they can afford the 37 inch pitch with ease.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
EnviroTO
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 pm

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:43 pm

The Inukshuk on the tail looks good. On their website they have Inuktitut now... is that new? Need to translate the destinations still though. Any chance that First Air will get a new aircraft at some point? Have they ever had an aircraft less than 10 years old? Also, it would be nice to see First Air in YYZ... I would think the connection possibilities and the fact that they are in Aeroplan would make it worthwhile to fly into YYZ. I guess the passenger traffic must be staying in Canada for the most part if they don't fly into Vancouver and Toronto.
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:53 pm

We are a northern carrier first and foremost. We connect out of Edmonton north...Winnipeg North.....Ottawa north.....and MOntreal north....Toronto and any other city does not make sense....There is not enough pax going north from these cities. Besides we conect for AC going north.

As for new aircraft we do not fly them enough to actually pay for them. As much as it would be nice you cannot pay the lease on 7 hours a day....In fact the new -17's powererd aircraft based on the little amount of flying do not actually use that much more fuel.

Yes, the 37 inch pitch is correct. The aircraft seats 98 passengers now. If more than 10 people want to go north we have to use C-GXFA.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
EnviroTO
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 pm

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:23 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 6):
We are a northern carrier first and foremost. We connect out of Edmonton north...Winnipeg North.....Ottawa north.....and MOntreal north....Toronto and any other city does not make sense....There is not enough pax going north from these cities. Besides we conect for AC going north.

Wouldn't the connections to the world at large be greater from Toronto than the other cities though? Are there really that many more people in Montreal that wake up in the morning and say "hmmm, I think I will go to Iqaluit today" than there are in Toronto plus all the destinations a non-stop flight from Toronto? Are most of the people on the Iqaluit - Ottawa flight ending their journey in Ottawa? The Edmonton and Winnipeg connections make sense I guess since they are by far the closest city to Yellowknife and Rankin Inlet respectively, but it seems strange that for all of the north that there is virtually no demand to go beyond southern Canada. Canadian North at least connects to Calgary which has slightly greater connectivity than Edmonton. But Canadian North and First Air compete on Iqaluit-Ottawa... is there that much demand to originate in Ottawa versus connect through Toronto to the world at large. Is it mostly politicians and government on these flights?
 
A332
Posts: 1421
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:58 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:28 am

That livery looks great... and 37" seat pitch to boot!

Always happy to see another freshly painted 732 grace the skies... not a common occurrence these days!
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
EnviroTO
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:11 pm

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:34 am

I guess the thing I can't understand with First Air not serving YVR, YYC, and YYZ is that you type LHR to YFB in a search engine and there are no connections available. You type LHR to YZF and you get a connection but need to go to YYC to connect and stop in YEG and First Air doesn't show up, only Canadian North. Basically the service doesn't connect to the world very well at all and by not showing up in most flight searches reduces the visibility of the service First Air provides. I would think connectivity would have operational benefits.
 
A332
Posts: 1421
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 3:58 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:43 am

What's the registration on the all-pax 732 pictured in the ad?
Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
 
A346Dude
Posts: 1161
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 11:23 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:52 am

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 9):
I guess the thing I can't understand with First Air not serving YVR, YYC, and YYZ is that you type LHR to YFB in a search engine and there are no connections available. You type LHR to YZF and you get a connection but need to go to YYC to connect and stop in YEG and First Air doesn't show up, only Canadian North.

What would be wrong with YFB-YOW-LHR and reverse? Certainly not as quick as YFB-LHR direct, but I imagine the demand on that route would be extremely low.

[Edited 2005-12-13 23:54:14]
You know the gear is up and locked when it takes full throttle to taxi to the terminal.
 
AirCanadaMan
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 4:42 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:01 am

Seems they're doing this to compete with Canadian North, who more than a year ago rolled out Aurora Class, which outshines any service First Air has offered to date (perhaps this will change, although 5T is not an airline to be outdone).

Canadian North launched the polar bear as their identity...at the time First had...well, a helmet. Theyre playing catch up with northern identity. When you think "North" do you think of rainbow and helmets, or Polar Bears and Auroras?

Out west, Canadian North has the respect, theyre not the ones buring muffins in the galleys, landing 732's nose wheel first at ridiculous speeds, ripping holes in the wings/fuselage of their Hercs or flying an ILS below minimums into the grass whilst adding taxiway signs to the underbelly of the plane. Many Yellowknifers are fed up with them and their service. Ontime performance seems to be a joke.

To me, this new "image" and service levels are way to late. Im interested in seeing if this is unique to the east, or if it will be systemwide. If it is, perhaps they can earn back some of their passengers they have long since lost. Although, judging from reactions here, this 37" is just to "wow" southern travelers. Governemnts and locals will pick the airline they enjoy and feel more loyal too. First Air lost my respect, along with many other northern travelers, long ago.
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6504
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:06 am

Is it me or does First Air's livery bears a strong resemblence to F9?


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Snorre - VIP Vienna International Planespotters

"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
threepoint
Posts: 1292
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:49 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:38 am

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 13):
Is it me or does First Air's livery bears a strong resemblence to F9?

It's not just you. Read the thread starter:

Quoting JetCaptain (Thread starter):
Complete with picture decals on the tail, a la Frontier
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:13 am

The reg is C-GCPT..The next one is C-FACP.

I am not even going to respond to AirCanadaMan..other than this. Read his profile and mine. You decide who has more reliable information. A student or airline employee in administrations.

Also a lot of what he said i am not going to respond to. I am employed and therefore I am not going to do anything to change that by commenting on rumor and speculation. All that he says is a little true but there is a lot more to it than what he has gleaned from the newspaper. Remember what you read in the newspaper is not always true. A lot of it is based on perception and perception is not always reality.

One B737 for the east and one for the west.

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
meister808
Posts: 924
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2000 11:45 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:00 pm

Whoa... hold on Greasespot. Don't jump on him for the sake of doing so. I think he has a valid opinion - after all, he is talking about customer opinion here, and he is a customer. If the customers have a bad taste in their mouths, then they do. It seems that all the Northern Canadians I have talked to echo his sentiments, so he might be on to something. Hopefully the new-and-improved First Air is more than a simple rebranding, and hopefully they get it together. Time will tell.

And, Greasespot, are you a manager, or an AME/powerplant analyst as your profile says... I am confused.

-Meister
Twin Cessna 812 Victor, Minneapolis Center, we observe your operation in the immediate vicinity of extreme precipitation
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:21 pm

Analyst in a dept of one...me...no longer in operational side of business... ...  Smile Sorry for the confusion.

No i am not going to back off. at 16-20 his flying decisions are most likely made by his parents. When he actually starts to buy tickets then I will take it more seriously...right now he is a kid spouting off based on what he read in a newspaper story.



And yeah i am very defensive of my company...

gs
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
ricardofg
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2005 4:09 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:17 pm

hey i wonder how the demand is on YFB-EZE...lol, sorry couldnt resist.
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:10 am

Actually ACMAN's opinions are the same I hear of many in the North as well. The people I know all travel on CDN North for personal affairs but when they fly for business their business often books on First Air. I have also heard many comments on the "few" misoperations they've had over the past few years but I dont think any views them as unsafe because of it.
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:20 am

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 7):
Are there really that many more people in Montreal that wake up in the morning and say "hmmm, I think I will go to Iqaluit today" than there are in Toronto plus all the destinations a non-stop flight from Toronto? Are most of the people on the Iqaluit - Ottawa flight ending their journey in Ottawa?

To answer both your questions, Yes and Yes. Most of YUL's traffic though is headed to Northern Quebec, primarily YVP (Kuujjuaq), hence the reason for daily YUL-YVP vs. the flight only continuing onto YFB 3x weekly.

Quoting EnviroTO (Reply 7):
But Canadian North and First Air compete on Iqaluit-Ottawa... is there that much demand to originate in Ottawa versus connect through Toronto to the world at large.

The O&D to YFB out of YOW is about 10 times higher than out of YYZ. If anyplace else were to get a direct link to YFB, it would be YHZ or YYT long before YYZ. There is very little non-domestic connecting traffic to the eastern Arctic (except for Americans going up during hunting season or Japanese to YZF to see the northern lights). The world at large can be served perfectly fine without YYZ...aka witout passing thru the centre of the universe.  Wink Besides why would 5T or 7F want to pay the world's most expensive landing fees, when AC just feeds them this traffic to begin with?

Quoting AirCanadaMan (Reply 12):
Im interested in seeing if this is unique to the east, or if it will be systemwide.

The next 99Y configured 732 will be out west. So it'll be there soon.

[Edited 2005-12-14 20:23:51]
 
LH459
Posts: 793
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 2:41 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:21 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 17):
Analyst in a dept of one...me...no longer in operational side of business.

I've always been interested in 7F, though we rarely get to sell 7F tickets down here. Do you guys still have the HS7s flying around up there? Must be the last operator of the type, eh?

[Edited 2005-12-14 21:22:05]
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:36 am

Quoting LH459 (Reply 21):
I've always been interested in 7F, though we rarely get to sell 7F tickets down here. Do you guys still have the HS7s flying around up there? Must be the last operator of the type, eh?

7F, along with Calm Air and Air North all still fly the Hawker up here. I'd love to get the chance to fly on one sometime.
 
AirCanadaMan
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 4:42 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:37 am

Greasespot,

I never did accuse 7F of being unsafe, nor have I attacked or insulted you, but you have seen here that I am not alone in perceiving the current status of First Air's image. If this pulls them around, great. I'd love to see something along the lines of NWT Air once again.

The Herc mishap this summer wasn't made public, only the depress was, and it got radio coverage, that's it. First Air whisked it away to Spar so fast to get it fixed, no one in the media or general public even cared. If I just read the papers, I guess I shouldn't know that the same year, it spent considerable time in heavy MX. Poor Bob must be upset with what happened to his planes. (oh yeah thast right, you guys finally bought them, some many years later) I especially enjoy the thought of a damaged 732 flying from YEG outeast, gear down, unpressurized, to get fixed. (was that in the papers....?)

Just a kid...I won't comment on that. I've been around here long enough to see the forums disintegrate into this "he's apparently a kid, so we'll just ignore it"...its truly sad I have to defend myself. But you're certainly on the wrong train of thought. You must truly fit in over at 7F. I remember when First Air wasnt much of anything, just an outfit out east that came into Yellowknife late in the day with a 721 from Resolute. Their logo, an orange and green helmet (where you even working for them then?). I used to love seeing the Bradley 748's with the 7F titles. Ptarmigan, great carrier, hell of an outfit, absorbed into 7F. Didnt take you guys long to get rid of the Citation, Gulfstreams, turbo beavers and all the other gear they had.

I'm not going to fight with you, its never been my intention. But you clearly dont know me, and there are several people on this board who can attest to who I am and the amount of travel I do. Next time I'm in Carp/Ottawa, I'd love to disprove you. Amazing how a "kid" from the north who's parents make his decisions, can maintain a Multi/Comm/IFR rating and Silver Elite status with a notable US airline. Oh yeah, he posts on here, that can't be true. As for the papers, the Yellowknifer is garbage, I hardly read it, and Im hardly even in Yellowknife. It is a small town, dosent take much to talk to the pilots, managers and various other people involved with all the airlines. Rumours do spread, yes, but when long time NWT Air/First Air Captains jump ship to 5T, they usually will tell you why, or when crews are at home cause their plane is grounded/busted, they'll tell you why.

Its great you respect your airline and defend it. I just didn't appreciate the unnecessary and unwarranted attack.
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:20 am

Lets see...what do you know about me...nothing......

I started with NWT air and i am glad first air bought us....IT WAS BEING SHUT DOWN......NWT Air was a huge money loser.

One of the captains who jumped ship to 5T was the captain who drove the nose gear in to the fuselage on NWI...Yeah the captain was J. E....What other long term captain has jumped ship. As far as I know most of NWT Captains are well still flying out west for us.

The landing below mins. that you claim...Well we were cleared...The only problem was they did not like our duty days and the the crew sat arround for a while.....BUT TOTALLY legal. It was an accident that can be attributed to human error. Yes we were lucky. VERY lucky. And yeah we ferried the airplane east for repair. Again you make this sound insidious. Would you prefer we ferried it to Calgary. The fact the our HMV facility is in the East and the aircraft went into heavy check at the same time

I like how you imply some motice whith the use of terms like whisked....like it was something insidious.....In fact the airplane had a huge charter work as it came from a Check and freight was backed up...Would you have preferrerd that the airplane sat arround YZF for a while before leaving....So to the casual outsider it looked like we did not care and it was no big deal? Taking a one of special aircraft out of a fleet is a big deal. There is no aircraft out there that can replace it at this time up there.

Canadian North had to change their Image.....they were sold by Canadian and had to develop their own brand identity.

Bob bought the airplanes when they were much younger nas much easier to care for. I worked for them at that time and a new interior is much easier to care for. You have your guts ripped out 2 -3 times a day, as we are busier than NWT ever was after they got the 737's, and see how you age.


Wow you elite status....and a pilot...is this your attempt to gain airliners street cred?

GS

PS thanks for the argument. It has been kind of fun. I like it when i am challeneged and you sure have done it. for that I give you credit and you know a lot more than just from the newspapers.
GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
AirCanadaMan
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2000 4:42 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:45 am

It has been fun, I havent posted in a long, long time, and its been a great welcome back.

I must admit, I only assumed who the PIC was on the nose gear event, I only ever did find out who the F/O was, had no real evidence the PIC was JE.

As for the insidiuous remarks, they weren't meant to imply First Air is terrible. They did what they had to, I wasnt quarreling with their actions to send the plane to Ottawa, I just found the idea of the plane flying like it was, somewhat uncommon (which is a trait for Northern aviation). We obviously couldnt fix the Herc in ZF, and sending the 37 east was, undoubtedly, the best decision. As for planes sitting around, NWI sat front and centre between the hangar and the firehall for months, with its nose all taped up, flaps down and starting the process of being parted out, eventually moved between DND and First Air, then finally into the woods, where it sits to this day, out of sight of the public.

It is the decision of the PIC to fly an approach and be aware of the weather conditions at the field, not ATC...I will drop this however, we needn't discuss it further.

I thought whisked was a good term...it was gone pretty fast. I understand how busy it is, GHPW is a great plane and indeed, incredibly unique. But, to that, you did get that L-100 from Alaska that replaced it for some weeks. I understand that was just temporary, but at least alleviated some backpressure from the ever busy summer schedule. (I love watching that thing fly at all hours of the endless summer night)

NWT Air was a great airline, and Bob is one man I truly enjoy speaking with and have respect for. I imagine you were there, back when the Electras had Royal Dalton china, and Mrs. Engle even flew as an F/A. Those were the great days on NWT air. The big party they threw in Yellowknife for their 35th was also rather memorable, the time they flew the Queen and various other great memories. Never did get on a DC-3 though, only had that privilige with Buffalo. Although towards the end, it did begin to sag in service, I was still sad to see it go.

As for the combis being beat up inside....dosent bother me one bit. To me, thats something to be expected flying up north. Both airlines interiors show their age, especially on the paneling/shades/cosmetics. Only up there, can we see pallets of seats being switched out for pallets of food on the ramp when its -40 out, in less than 30 minutes.

And I dont give a dang about airliners street credit....I just didnt want to be called a kid.

Speaking of First Air, I got some trips up north to make, I may just have to try out the new interiors, Any specifc date of entry into service?

It is nice to find someone who is truly knowledegable about northern airlines, and this has been fun.
 
Dash8King
Posts: 2657
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2001 8:45 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:40 pm

ACMAN how long ago have you started your training?

Question for 7F employee's are the 748's expected to stay with the fleet for sometime? It will be a sad day when those go almost as sad as seeing the 721's go but I guess planes do age.
 
Canada Mike
Posts: 140
Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2001 3:13 pm

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:55 am

Just a question, regarding the second all-pax 737 (ACP?) going out west...I thought it was meant to replace the 721 VFA? I understood that CPT would do YOW-YFB while ACP would do YUL-YVP(-YFB). So, is one of the Combi 737s (NVT perhaps?) going to replace VFA on the Montreal routes instead?

And, Dash8King, yes I do believe the 748s will be operating the Baffin routes ex-YFB for the foreseeable future. Some of the airfields around Nunavut aren't currently able to accommodate the ATRs, so there will at least be some 748s until that issue is resolved by TC and Gov't of Nunavut.

Cheers
 
flyby9877
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:20 am

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:24 am

I really like the new look, but you are right, it looks just like Frontier.




www.whereisapilot.com
NO URLS in signature
 
yow
Posts: 2125
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2001 2:47 pm

RE: First Air's (Canada) New Colours?

Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:54 am

One of the 3 732Cs from the west will be moving back east to YUL. Whether or not it's NVT, who knows, but that seems the likely choice since NDC and NWN's gravel kit capability is needed in the west for places like YCB and the mines.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Austin787, Baidu [Spider], BI777, iahcsr, Mikey711MN, msycajun, notdownnlocked, seat1a, shamrock350, skyhigh and 183 guests