LY4XELD
Topic Author
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:14 am

AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:15 am

That's why we're here.
 
ssides
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RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:21 am

AA is also dropping LGB, GRB, RST, PVD, and most importantly, LIM, from its DFW schedule.
"Lose" is not spelled with two o's!!!!
 
CALMSP
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RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:24 am

maybe this will entice us to add a 2nd IAH-LIM flight!!!
what is AA going to do with their slots at LGB?
 
LY4XELD
Topic Author
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 5:14 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:24 am

Also of note, AA will cancel the following nonstop service from DFW:

DFW to:
Long Beach, CA
Providence, RI
Lima, Peru
Green Bay, WI
Rochester, MN

Downgrade/Reduction of service to the following cities from DFW:

St. Louis
Kansas City
Austin
College Station
Shreveport, LA
Cincinnati
San Antonio
Killeen, TX

And:

Toledo, OH will not be reinstated as previously planned

-LY

[Edited 2005-12-13 18:25:19]
That's why we're here.
 
hiflyer
Posts: 1270
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RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:25 am

2 class md80's for interstate and 50 seat rj's for intrastate. I thought there would be a more radical approach and not give Southwest the rj's for a target in advertising. Obviously AA is using brand loyalty/freq flier miles as the main weapon with a little First Class thrown in. Minimal cost entry easy to terminate.
 
stl1326
Posts: 392
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:07 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:44 am

Quoting LY4XELD (Reply 3):
Downgrade/Reduction of service to the following cities from DFW:

St. Louis
Kansas City
Austin
College Station
Shreveport, LA
Cincinnati
San Antonio
Killeen, TX

Do you have anymore specifics as to how many flights will be downgraded/reduced?
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:48 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 2):
what is AA going to do with their slots at LGB?

Fly a Saab LGB-LAX? :p
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
commavia
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RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:50 am

Such a tragedy, such a pothetic, unfortunate, unnecessary tragedy ...
 
Junction
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2005 2:50 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:52 am

I guess AA is not serious about making DAL work. AA needs to offer something WN can’t. I can understand the STL flights (or any other hub), but mainline to MCI, and intra TX routes are insane. It is possible to pick up market share at DAL, but only if you do it rationally. Even with AA’s new routes, the only way you can buy a ticket from Love to Europe, Asia or Latin America using a single carrier with one stop is on CO. What is AA trying to do?
 
LY4XELD
Topic Author
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RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:53 am

Quoting Stl1326 (Reply 5):
Do you have anymore specifics as to how many flights will be downgraded/reduced?

St. Louis: Moving four non-stop flights to Dallas Love Field; retaining eight non-stop flights at DFW; net loss of one daily non-stop flight

Kansas City, Mo.: Moving three non-stop flights to Dallas Love Field; retaining seven non-stop flights at DFW; net loss of two non-stop daily flights

Austin, Texas: Moving five non-stop flights to Dallas Love Field; retaining 14 non-stop flights at DFW

San Antonio, Texas: Moving four flights to Dallas Love Field; retaining 12 flights at DFW

College Station, Texas: Reduction from six to three daily round-trips to DFW.
In addition, one Saturday round-trip will be downgraded from an ERJ to a Saab

Tyler, Texas: Reduction from seven to four daily round-trips to DFW

Cincinnati, Ohio: Reduction from six to five daily round-trips to DFW

San Angelo, Texas: Downgrade of one ERJ round-trip to a Saab 340

Shreveport, La.: Downgrade of two ERJ round-trips to Saab 340s

Killeen, Texas: Downgrade of one ERJ round-trip to a Saab 340
That's why we're here.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:54 am

I do not see any mention of the service reductions/cancellations everyone is talking about. Is there a press release or something to link that info?
 
LY4XELD
Topic Author
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RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:57 am

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 10):
I do not see any mention of the service reductions/cancellations everyone is talking about. Is there a press release or something to link that info?

http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dw...aa051213_wz_lovefield.6850d46.html
That's why we're here.
 
FCYTravis
Posts: 1172
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:21 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:58 am

Oh noes, it's a tragedy that the people of Dallas/Fort Worth have more choices in airline travel! How un-American that people can fly to where they choose on the airline of their choice! Shocking, I tell you. This competition thing is out of hand.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
txagkuwait
Posts: 1388
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RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:00 am

I am anxious to see what OPNL_Guy, sccutler, and some of the other denizens of Love Field have to say about this. My gut reaction is.....Why?

I know why. American's management has made dire predictions about what would/will happen if Wright goes away and they are not about to be proven wrong.

American may divert some of Southwest's intra-Texas traffic over to their airplanes. More likely, though, they will divert some of their own intra-Texas business from DFW to Love Field. Once at Love Field, when the MD80 breaks down or the RJ has an issue, all bets are off as to whether or not those psgrs stay on American.

It is hard to beat frequency, and WN still offers frequency to AUS & SAT.

It was somewhat surprising that AA didn't try a few RJs down to HOU, although they probably could anticipate how that would come out.

The delay in starting the service (March?) certainly is not going to do American any good.

As far as drawdowns elsewhere...

DFW reductions to KC, STL, SAT, AUS --- offset by new frequencies offered from Love Field

Reducing frequencies from DFW to KC and STL may come back to bite AA....since traffic from ELP, LBB, and MAF that connected at DFW may find that fewer frequencies = fewer connecting opportunities, and that the connection times available on WN (as well as not having to fight DFW) make WN a better choice. MAF & LBB to those cities aren't huge markets, but ELP-KC and ELP-STL is nothing to sneer at.

I know why American is reducing frequency to Killeen - a big chunk of Fort Hood is deployed (where do you think I am typing this from...it's noon in Texas and 9 pm here) and when Fort Hood is deployed, there are a lot fewer psgrs at Killeen.

All in all it doesn't make economic sense, but I guess when you are accustomed to losing money throwing away 25-35 million a year to try and make a point is worth it.

Next move is Southwest's. If it were me, I would chop the fares on some of the Texas intrastate but especially in markets where I competed against American in and out of St Louis and (to a lesser extent) Chicago.

This is almost the worst-case-scenario for American. If they had gone to KC and St Louis with RJs, they might hurt themselves in O&D traffic but they could sell "Love Field to anywhere in the world" sort of like CO does down to IAH. But they chose to go to those two cities with MD80s. If they ran MD80s intra-Texas, they would lose money, but they could sell WN passengers on the idea of First Class and extra AAdvantage miles. First Class on a Barbie Dream jet? Why Bother?
 
FCYTravis
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RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:03 am

I think it's pathetic to try and claim that the cut flight to Lima, Peru is coming at the expense of DAL. Were they flying an MD-80 to Lima or something? Come on, they're just using it as an excuse to cut an underperforming flight.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:08 am

"We must fly from DAL-MCI, therefore no more service to Lima, Long Beach, or Green Bay."

Agreed. It just sounds like an excuse to cut under-performing flights. And call me crazy, but it seems like far more Dallas residents will use the flights to MCI and STL, than they would to LIM.
 
BigGSFO
Posts: 2214
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RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:08 am

The cancelling of DFW-LIM can't possibly be related to the DAL start-up of service. And I am really surprised that this flight is being axed given the rising popularity of Peru and the cargo. Is it a seasonal cancellation?
 
william
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:26 am

TXAGKUWAIT,I don't think it has to do with the deployment. I live in Copperas Cove and the local economy is humming right along. Dropping from a 50 pax RJ to a 30 pax Saab is not that big of a deal considering how many flights AE has to DFW.

http://www.flykilleen.net/flightinfo.php

I think COEX is having more of an effect. They turning out to be a very strong competitor.

As regards AA service out of Love,its all token.
 
texan
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RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:42 am

Quoting Ssides (Reply 1):
AA is also dropping LGB, GRB, RST, PVD, and most importantly, LIM, from its DFW schedule.

LGB has been dropped twice before; the route does not make AA any money. Without having seen the actual revenue numbers for the other specific flights, I would presume that these flights as well are money losers. Allowing Missouri to be added to the list of exempt states from the Wright Amendment is just a handy excuse. If the routes to these cities were actually doing well, there would be no reason to drop them as there is no competition on the routes they are dropping.

16 daily flights, including flights to AUS and SAT...why?!? Flights to AUS already failed, why bring them back? Well, if they can compete with four daily flights to both cities and not lose their shirts, more power to them.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:56 am

I can't say that i'm surprised to see PVD get dropped, but it sure is dissapointing. I say that I'm not surprised because AA has seen to give up on PVD as of late...only 3 flights to ORD and 1 to DFW...so they'll be at only 3 per day. AA was never huge in PVD, but still, you'd think they could make one PVD-DFW flight work. I'm sure the loads/yield were decent in the market, but I guess they have bigger fish to fry at BOS. Very sad.
 
ckfred
Posts: 4714
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:58 am

Remember, AA doesn't always start a route to make money. The idea can be to make the other guy lose money.

If a passenger who flies both AA and WN now fines himself with a choice at DAL, he might very well pick AA. Let's face it, elite status on AA has a lot of perks. On the other hand, WN doesn't have any sort of elite status.

Flying an RJ between DAL and SAT may not be as nice as a 737, but the extra miles may mean getting upgrades out of DFW to LAX or BOS. And the extra miles may mean the free trip to MCO or LGW.
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:00 am

And just for the record, I think AA's venture into DAL will be a total failure. I give it six months at the most.
 
PVD757
Posts: 3021
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 8:23 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:00 am

While loads on the DFW-PVD were very high from day one, I suppose the yields weren't what AA wanted, otherwise we'd be getting a 2nd flight instead of losing the onbe we had. Once again, though, the AA roller coaster ride at PVD continues. October of 2004, we had 10 AA flights - we'll be down to 3 (assuming they don't do anything to replace the DFW flight) when this takes place.

I'm mostly peeved that if the loads are so high, why not yield manage the flight better to increase the revenue - I'm tired of AA's games here - and I used to be employed by them nonetheless!!!

I bet the folks in GRB and LRB feel the same way...
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15253
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:08 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 16):
And I am really surprised that this flight is being axed given the rising popularity of Peru and the cargo. Is it a seasonal cancellation?

With the exception of PVD, all of the dropped cities were not very full....ever.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
sllevin
Posts: 3312
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:11 am

Quoting TxAgKuwait (Reply 13):
Reducing frequencies from DFW to KC and STL may come back to bite AA....since traffic from ELP, LBB, and MAF that connected at DFW may find that fewer frequencies = fewer connecting opportunities

What they've done with MCI and STL is move the flights that are heavily O&D to DAL. Flights with a higher percentage of connecting traffic are still going to DFW.

Steve
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13762
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:13 am

The LGB pax will have to drive "all the way" to LAX or SNA to catch one of the 20 daily flights to DFW, and GRB will have to connect in ORD instead, only an issue if your destination was DFW or a couple of locations not served via ORD.

Life will go on. LGB was redundant. Few airlines fly to all 3.

[Edited 2005-12-13 20:15:02]
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:19 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 22):
I'm mostly peeved that if the loads are so high, why not yield manage the flight better to increase the revenue

I guess yield management is hard to come by at an airline that is losing a lot of money. Or perhaps the talent just isn't there. Or the will.
 
thecamel67
Posts: 34
Joined: Wed May 25, 2005 3:12 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:21 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 20):
Flying an RJ between DAL and SAT may not be as nice as a 737, but the extra miles may mean getting upgrades out of DFW to LAX or BOS. And the extra miles may mean the free trip to MCO or LGW.

As one of those AA "heavy metal" flyers, I would 1) drive to DFW for an MD80 or 2) drive to DAL for a 737 before I would 3) drive to DAL for a Barbie Dream Jet. It is not worth the 500 miles in my AAdvantage account.

I cannot wait for the DFW press release. "See, we told you so. Smaller communities take a hit as AA moves RJ's to compete with WN and poor DFW loses in the process."

I just can't believe that AA is going to really try and compete. RJ's just ain't going to cut it even for a 50 minute flight when you have other options with better schedules from both airports.

I want to know where the 757 that was going to Lima is going.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 14):
I think it's pathetic to try and claim that the cut flight to Lima, Peru is coming at the expense of DAL. Were they flying an MD-80 to Lima or something? Come on, they're just using it as an excuse to cut an underperforming flight.

Agree here. AA can cut low yield flights and spin it to the Wright issue.

The only thing that makes more sense than what AA is doing is the UA RJ focus in SAT  Wink
 
mrstl
Posts: 353
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:58 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:45 am

What fleet types will AA be using on the remaining 8 DFW-STL flights?? Anyone in the know?
 
milemaster
Posts: 995
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2001 10:19 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:47 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 14):
I think it's pathetic to try and claim that the cut flight to Lima, Peru is coming at the expense of DAL. Were they flying an MD-80 to Lima or something? Come on, they're just using it as an excuse to cut an underperforming flight.



Quoting Travelin man (Reply 15):
Agreed. It just sounds like an excuse to cut under-performing flights. And call me crazy, but it seems like far more Dallas residents will use the flights to MCI and STL, than they would to LIM.

I just love how words like "excuse" and "pathetic" are being thrown around here in regards to AA's schedule changes. Why is it such an excuse or considered so pathetic to any of you that the flights AA are pulling down at DFW are underperforming routes? You realize that was the argument all along, right? On routes that were merely marginal, the loss of traffic pushes the numbers to the point that it isn't realistic to continue service. So, while LIM-DFW may have been underperforming but justifiable before, it's no longer. Long beach is no different since it's always been a low-yield route.

I'll tell you what I find "pathetic"....

Southwest publicly stated over & over that removing the WA was all about competition. Yet when AA annouces service from Love WN's PR "team" spews out that it's suicide & that it's a horrible business decision. Another fine move from the poorly skilled PR team over at WN.

I also love the fact that WN has codeshare flt numbers for virtually every ATA flight except for the one at DFW. What a great airline.
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:48 am

AA is acting as bad as NW right now, doing these dumb anti-competitive moves. How they think they will make money or do decent is beyond me, so it's pretty obvious they are trying to hurt WN.

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 20):
Remember, AA doesn't always start a route to make money. The idea can be to make the other guy lose money.

Oh great, lets both suffer the losses.

Signed,
AA Management

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 22):
I'm tired of AA's games here - and I used to be employed by them nonetheless!!!

  

[Edited 2005-12-13 20:49:48]
 
txagkuwait
Posts: 1388
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 7:39 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:01 am

>>Southwest publicly stated over & over that removing the WA was all about competition. Yet when AA annouces service from Love WN's PR "team" spews out that it's suicide & that it's a horrible business decision. Another fine move from the poorly skilled PR team over at WN.<<

It is all about competition and let the games begin. The winners are going to be the folks who buy tickets.

That being said, WN's comments as to the wisdom of AA's proposed competitive response might be....their actual opinion. If it looks dumb to WN's management (who have demonstrated that they know how to run an airline while paying their employees well AND making a profit for their shareholders) AND it looks dumb to the majority of a.netters.....it might actually BE dumb.

>>Quoting Ckfred (Reply 20):
Remember, AA doesn't always start a route to make money. The idea can be to make the other guy lose money. <<

Fred, maybe I am dense....but why would they do that? Is that not failure to act with appropriate fiduciary responsibility on behalf of the owners of the company....namely, the stockholders? Is it wise to expose yourself to greater financial losses to try and prove something you cannot prove and win a battle you cannot win?

I will invite sccutler to chime in with something pertinent about malfeasance by AA's mAAnagement

[Edited 2005-12-13 21:03:43]
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:09 am

Quoting Milemaster (Reply 29):
I'll tell you what I find "pathetic"....

Southwest publicly stated over & over that removing the WA was all about competition. Yet when AA annouces service from Love WN's PR "team" spews out that it's suicide & that it's a horrible business decision. Another fine move from the poorly skilled PR team over at WN.

You know, that "poorly skilled PR team" was only telling the truth when they said it was a horrible decision for AA to start up a bunch of DAL flights. AA could compete, and compete effectively without flying a single plane out of DAL. Heck...Birmingham AL and Jackson MS are both WA states...how come they aren't cancelling a OMA or DSM flight and starting up DAL-BHM/JAN flights from Love? Southwest didn't want to operate out of 2 airports because it would be too costly. AA will find that it is pretty costly to do that. But hey, it's their money to lose.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4437
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:10 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 2):
what is AA going to do with their slots at LGB?

They get returned to the city per the various slot allocation agreements in place.

I believe the agreement in 2003 said JetBlue gets first crack at them, although I'm not sure of all of the rules LGB will need to follow to reallocate them.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15253
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:12 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 22):
I'm mostly peeved that if the loads are so high, why not yield manage the flight better to increase the revenue

It's not necessarily that simple. AA may have been able to fill the plane at a money losing fare, but whenever they tried to increase the fare to a sustainable level the passengers disappeared, choosing another cheaper routing or not flying at all. You can't necessarily manage a money losing, full flight into a profitable, less full flight. It all depends on the elasticity of the demand.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 2962
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:37 am

How is this likely to affect traffic at AUS from DFW, aside from the aforementioned reduction in flights. If there were to be any equipment changes, would this be the most likely time for them to happen? All speculation of course. Frankly, I'm so sick of MD-80s. They're nice planes, but they're just kinda boring. Gimme something a little bigger, that daily CO 757 gets me excited  Wink
Cheers,
Cameron
 
PUDFW
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 3:45 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:50 am

The fact of the matter is that American is on way back to profitability. Regardless of flying out of Love field or not it, this is a drop in the bucket compared to the revenue elsewhere in their system.

I don’t think American has any intention of turning a profit on Love flights. I don’t understand why everyone is so ticked off about the decision. They are doing exactly what they said they would do. It may keep their customers from defecting and if the right amendment eventually gets fully repelled they need to activate that base of customers in Dallas and get prepared to offer more flights.

Southwest wants to offer $49 one way, I hope American offers $39 to STL. American is the largest airline in the world they are going to have to face a growing Southwest problem sometime in the future. Why not do it now at DAL. Personally I hope they make these routes extremely unprofitable to for Southwest.

I applaud them for taking Southwest on directly. Those fuel hedges are going to run out soon Southwest, oh its coming...then lets look are your competitive position.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:58 am

Quoting Milemaster (Reply 29):
Southwest publicly stated over & over that removing the WA was all about competition. Yet when AA annouces service from Love WN's PR "team" spews out that it's suicide & that it's a horrible business decision. Another fine move from the poorly skilled PR team over at WN.

WN's PR team is right about this being an idiotic decision by AA. AA should continue to compete where they are strong and not use competition from WN as an excuse to cut unprofitable routes.

Quoting PUDFW (Reply 36):
Personally I hope they make these routes extremely unprofitable to for Southwest.

Yeah, that isn't going to happen

Quoting PUDFW (Reply 36):

Southwest wants to offer $49 one way, I hope American offers $39 to STL.

Well, you hope AA loses lots and lots of money then.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
cairo
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:41 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:03 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 7):
Such a tragedy, such a pothetic, unfortunate, unnecessary tragedy ...

A tragedy for AA's model, sure, which is basically to overcharge some customers in order to subsidize others.

Also, most of these cancellations have nothing to do with new service at Love Field and are purely a PR ploy, which of course will fail. Cancelling flights to Lima because Southwest now flies to Missouri from Love? Sure, it makes sense, because now they're going to simply fly Southwest to Lima instead.

BooHoo...the free market at work. BTW, Kroger and Albertson's have lost market share in the DFW area to a lower price competitor with better service...Wal Mart. Wal Mart now leads in DFW area grocery market share. I presume you think that is a 'pothetic' tragedy as well?

Bring back high prices!

Cairo
 
iowaman
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:15 am

Quoting PUDFW (Reply 36):
I applaud them for taking Southwest on directly. Those fuel hedges are going to run out soon Southwest, oh its coming...then lets look are your competitive position.

Fuel Hedges don't run out until 2009, and without fuel hedges Southwest would of still been profitable last quarter.

Quoting Cairo (Reply 38):
BooHoo...the free market at work. BTW, Kroger and Albertson's have lost market share in the DFW area to a lower price competitor with better service...Wal Mart. Wal Mart now leads in DFW area grocery market share. I presume you think that is a 'pothetic' tragedy as well?

Bring back high prices!

Bring back high prices? Why? Competition is good.
 
FLAIRPORT
Posts: 3863
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2000 10:46 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:16 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 4):
2 class md80's for interstate and 50 seat rj's for intrastate. I thought there would be a more radical approach and not give Southwest the rj's for a target in advertising. Obviously AA is using brand loyalty/freq flier miles as the main weapon with a little First Class thrown in. Minimal cost entry easy to terminate.

I am very suprised at this also. IMHO, if you are going to use the RJ, fly them to ABQ or somewhere WN can't! Also, I think the 738 would have been a better option for these routes...1st class, IFE...just saying! AUS will fail, I'm suprised HOU and/or IAH weren't included.

However, this will do well with the AA FF who needs to get up to MCI for the day and wants a better expirence, but will use miles. The key there is use miles. I have a feeling that a large percentage will be freebees.
NEXT FLIGHT: FLL-ATL-HPN on FL
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:25 am

Quoting PUDFW (Reply 36):

I applaud them for taking Southwest on directly. Those fuel hedges are going to run out soon Southwest, oh its coming...then lets look are your competitive position.

Know something? They'll still have a competitive advantage because they won't have the costs of running out of 2 airports 11 miles apart. Even without fuel hedges.

I'm not "ticked off" about AA doing whatever they want, but what does tick me off is this "lose money/protect market share" thought process. Am I the only person who'd rather be second place in market share and profitable, versus bleeding money but be the market share leader? Where has the bulk of the growth in the Dallas area been over the past decade? North and WEST of the city...DFW is more convenient. Again, they could have competed for a lot less money by not trying to operate out of 2 airports...Why do you think SWA doesn't want to operate flights out of DFW and DAL at the same time??? It's the COSTS.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5155
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:18 am

You guys missed a critical line in the press release:

"The airline is working with airport officials on arrangements for ticket counters and other facilities with which to service its customers efficiently."

Geez, they are already talking about how they'll have to work with airport officials to set up "facilities". I WONDER WHY??? Here's why: This is potentially a setup for the possibility of litigation over whether they are being properly serviced, and an excuse for delaying the startup if they choose to do so -- blame it on the airport.


I have to give the AA PR machine credit: Put out a press release that talks about all the great new service you will offer (including flights in Barbie jets on a route that the Barbie jets were driven from last time at a time that you had a friggin' government contract with a guaranteed revenue stream). Then, "on background", as we have been discussing elsewhere, you tell the reporters about all the flights that you have "had" to cut to make these 14 flights possible, including service to poor little cities. But then screw it up by getting greedy and adding Lima, Peru, with an aircraft type that isn't even used in the service. As Dr. Evil would say, "Riiiiiiiiiight." Like one of the world's largest carriers doesn't have enough metal available or parked to add 14 short flights without cutting other routes? What a complete load of crap.

I'm embAArrAAsed for AA. They followed the script, of course, of putting the startup 3 months out, and including only routes that allow them quickly to call travelers to tell them that their flights have been "moved" back to DFW if they pull the service at DAL or don't get it started soon enough. But the scope of what they're proposing to do is plainly constrained by how much money they are willing to lose to try to bludgeon WN. And it plainly isn't much. Nothing like the old days when Crandall announced that they would operate DAL as a second connecting hub with a zillion flights if Wright was removed. "We have the complexes all ready to go," or some such, he was quoted in the paper as saying at the time.

This "we have to compete" theme was total hogwash to begin with. Kansas City? Who cares? If you are going to launch a competitive response, then launch a competitive response. That means as many flights as 3 gates can hold from LUV, to all WN Texas points, as well as Louisiana, Oklahoma, etc., using equivalent metal, with AA's vaunted First Class (oooooooh! First Class! Like flying in Heaven!! For 30 minutes!). That's a competitive response. This is just sAAd.

The bean counters at AA must have prevailed. If I were a shareholder at AA, I'd be thanking my lucky stars.

Bemusedly,

Bill
 
Indio66
Posts: 403
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:22 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:35 am

 
atrude777
Posts: 4258
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 11:23 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:59 am

Quoting Indio66 (Reply 43):
DFW is complaining:

ya , boo hoo look what they wrote.

It will also mean reduced service to key Texas cities including Austin, San Antonio, College Station and Tyler, as well as fewer flights to St. Louis, Mo., Kansas City, Mo. and Cincinnati, Ohio.

Darn, go over to DAL and fly there then, the city of Dallas still has the same amount of flights.

And travelers will have 31 less flights to choose from at DFW.

And travelers can drive over to DAL and fly there then, or connect at ORD.

"The sad fact is that Southwest Airlines could have avoided the negative impact on our community, neighborhoods and economy by simply choosing to offer long-haul flights from DFW while keeping its current service at Dallas Love Field. We will continue to urge Southwest Airlines to accept our standing offer of free terminal rent and $22 million in incentives to begin flights here -- the gates are ready and waiting. "

Leaving out one key detail, SWA must offer so many flights at a certain cities they want served. Not going to happen.

We want to strengthen the North Texas economy for all of our citizens, not see it degraded for the financial benefit of one company.

the financial benefit makes it cheaper for all passengers to fly!!

Alex
Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:15 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 4):
Minimal cost entry easy to terminate.

While none of us are privy to the actual numbers, I would think that AA's (re)entry into DAL will be very expensive. Especially when you factor in the loss of revenue to DFW.

But I fail to understand why AA has made such a fuss about all of this. They already successfully compete virtually head-to-head with Southwest in Chicago. Continental and Southwest co-exist profitably in Houston. And America West has gone literally head-to-head with Southwest at Phoenix and Las Vegas for decades and survived.

A truly deregulated, unrestricted airline operating environment is what we need in this country...imho.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
kanebear
Posts: 852
Joined: Tue May 28, 2002 12:06 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:33 am

I can't believe they're killing the Lima route. I KNOW that has nothing to do with DFW/DAL issues. Perhaps they want the 757 elsewhere? Yields may have been bad but I fail to see how, the flight was always packed and tickets weren't ever cheap. A doctor friend of mine goes down there once every month or two for Doctors Without Borders work and no matter when or how we attempt to book the tickets, the lowest fares we find are $800 and up.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26467
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:07 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 42):

Excellent post Bill

Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 44):
We want to strengthen the North Texas economy for all of our citizens, not see it degraded for the financial benefit of one company.

the financial benefit makes it cheaper for all passengers to fly!!

If WN are allowed to compete with flights from DAL, North Texas air traffic will go up, prompting more people to come in and out of the region, pumping millions into, not out of the economy.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
SWALoveField
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:49 pm

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:00 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 47):
If WN are allowed to compete with flights from DAL, North Texas air traffic will go up, prompting more people to come in and out of the region, pumping millions into, not out of the economy.

Seems like basic economics to me, but judging from AA's decisions with DAL, they need help with basic economics.

 Smile

Robb
Dallas, TX
 
travelin man
Posts: 3198
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 10:04 am

RE: AA's DAL Service Schedule Released

Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:20 am

"The shift of American flights to Love Field will eliminate North Texas service to five domestic cities:

Long Beach, Calif.;

Yes, it is truly difficult to drive 12 miles up the freeway to LAX to get to DFW non-stop. And, if somebody REALLY wants to fly from LGB to DFW, they can always take HP (via PHX).

Providence, R.I.;
I assume the non-stops to BDL and BOS are still a "go"? And there are always the numerous connections from DFW to PVD.

Green Bay, Wis.;
Connect via ORD.

Toledo, Ohio; and Rochester, Minn.
Again, what is so wrong with connections?

The shift will also eliminate North Texas service to a vital Latin American market, Lima, Peru.
If it was so vital, why would it be cut? It must have been a marginal route at best. Those people will now have to connect in MIA (or LAX on LA), I guess.

It will also mean reduced service to key Texas cities including Austin, San Antonio,
Neglecting to mention, of course, the INCREASE in service from DAL to off-set the decrease from DFW.

as well as fewer flights to St. Louis, Mo., Kansas City, Mo.
Again, offset by increase from DAL.

and Cincinnati, Ohio.
There still will be non-stop CIN-DFW service.