BigGSFO
Topic Author
Posts: 2214
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:27 am

AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:53 am

This announcement was buried in a different thread discussing today's DAL schedule. I don't see how the removal of this flight has anything to do with the build-up at Love.

I am a bit surprised this flight is being suspended. It's my understanding the passenger and cargo loads are decent. Does anybody have any insight? Is this seasonal?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:30 am

Dallas-Lima is a horrendous performer for AA. Has been for a while now, and its sole purpose is to relieve MIA-LIM of low yielding passengers. Even Miami-Lima is only a so-so performer during the off season.

How this can be attributed to the DAL move is simple: AA needs S80s for DAL from somewhere, and then needs to replace those S80 flights with 757s from somwhere, and that somwhere just happens to be DFW-LIM, which is a poor performing route that uses a 757 that could otherwise be better utilized domesticlly. Now, is AA stretching it by implying that cutting Dallas-Lima is entirely due to the fact of Love Field service? Yes, indeed they are. However, at the same time, it is most likely a contributing factor in some form.
a.
 
2travel2know
Posts: 2236
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Wed Dec 14, 2005 8:53 am

AA B737-800 don't have the range for LIM-DFW?
Could AA code-share a DFW-SAL-LIM or DFW-SJO-LIM with TA?
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
N1120A
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Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:01 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 2):

AA B737-800 don't have the range for LIM-DFW?

The route is over 2900nm. They have no chance, particularly without winglets.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
drerx7
Posts: 4218
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:07 am

This should bode well for COs IAH-LIM flight.
Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15253
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Wed Dec 14, 2005 9:16 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
However, at the same time, it is most likely a contributing factor in some form.

Well, so is Toledo's low approval ratings in Peru... AA is really hitting bottom with this nonsense. I'm really disappointed because I respected AA a lot more before this whole charade.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
2travel2know
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 7:05 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:43 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
The route is over 2900nm. They have no chance, particularly without winglets.

CM flies EZE-PTY with B737-800 winglets; however they quite often try to restrict the take-off weight @ EZE.
I belive the B737-800 in AA configuration takes less passengers than CM's so probably it really could barely make it LIM-DFW. If it's true, it's up to AA to study if DFW-LIM-DFW with B737-800 wouldn't be a money looser.
I don't work for COPA Airlines!
 
stirling
Posts: 3897
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2004 2:00 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:48 pm

Cut along with Lima, Peru....

Green Bay WI
Rochester MN
Long Beach CA
Providence RI
Toledo OH

According to the press release...so it can compete with Southwest Airlines at Love Field.
Dallas Morning News
Delete this User
 
texan
Posts: 4059
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 2:23 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Wed Dec 14, 2005 10:50 pm

AA has needed to cut some of their underperforming routes for a while now. They most likely would have cut the flights sooner, but the addition of Missouri to the Wright-exempt states allowed them to make an excuse as to why the routes were being cut and shift blame. Common tactic that some people will believe and some people will see right through.

Texan
"I have always imagined that Paradise will be a kind of library."
 
NYCAAer
Posts: 595
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2004 10:22 pm

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:41 pm

The elimination of the 4 daily DFW-LGB flights means that AA will no longer have any service at all to Long Beach. You just know JetBlue will grab those slots if they can, unless AA uses them for something like ORD-LGB.
 
KL808
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Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 3:49 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:21 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 2):
Could AA code-share a DFW-SAL-LIM or DFW-SJO-LIM with TA?

NO

Because they are eliminating TACA as a code share partner starting late this month or early next year.

Drew
AMS-LAX-MNL
 
Southamerica
Posts: 2300
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:56 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:55 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 6):
CM flies EZE-PTY with B737-800 winglets

Are you sure? I thought CM operated all of its routes to deep South America [GRU, EZE and SCL] with 73Gs, which do have the legs to do it without any hassle, unlike the 738s.

The 738s are used in shorter, yet higher-density markets such as MEX, BOG and HAV among others.



SOUTHAMERICA
 
richardw
Posts: 3136
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:18 am

BTW LIM-MIA on AA has a BA code, so you could do LIM-MIA-LHR-MAD-LIM all on a BA code but flying AA,BA and IB.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:34 am

Quoting 2travel2know (Reply 6):
If it's true, it's up to AA to study if DFW-LIM-DFW with B737-800 wouldn't be a money looser.

It would lose money. The minimal revenue DFW-LIM pulls in is through cargo.
a.
 
LVTMB
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:18 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:51 am

So, pulling DFW-LIM is freeing up a 757? Great! Why not add a badly-needed fourth MIA-SFO frequency?

MB
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:04 am

Quoting LVTMB (Reply 14):
Why not add a badly-needed fourth MIA-SFO frequency?

It is being planned for the summer with a 738.
a.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:02 am

DFW-LIM indeed has been on the skids load wise..

In 2004 the route produced the following load factors.

Q1-66%
Q2-60%
Q3-76%
Q4-53%

The other DFW-Latin America route that is quite marginal loadwise is the Caracas service which is currently run on a 737-800. With continued political issues, I suppose we should not be to surprised if it were to get axed one day also. I would imagine CO would be carrying the Houston based Citgo traffic, so I dont know if there is enought oil traffic to keep supporting the route.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
incitatus
Posts: 2700
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:16 am

Quoting Texan (Reply 8):
Common tactic that some people will believe and some people will see right through.

Just like in any other situation where corporations have strong interests. As one more example, many people can see through Southwest's refusal to serve DFW. Others can't.
Stop pop up ads
 
A330323X
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:29 am

Shame, 8 months ago, I would've been excited, thought this could be just the opportunity for US to start FLL-LIM. But right now, there's about a 0% chance that the new management will want anything to do with LIM of all markets. Oh well.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
ScottB
Posts: 5446
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:44 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
AA needs S80s for DAL from somewhere

...and the S80's for DAL are coming from the (even larger) reductions in DFW-STL and DFW-MCI flying.

I'm sure that CO will be very happy to accommodate as many of the former AA DFW-LIM passengers as they can take.
 
AJMIA
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:29 pm

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:47 am

Any chance on an increase of MIA-LIM capacity?

The evening MIA-LIM was recently reduced from an A300 to a 757.

AJMIA
Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24557
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:04 am

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 20):
Any chance on an increase of MIA-LIM capacity?

The evening MIA-LIM was recently reduced from an A300 to a 757.

No, not right now. The reduction was to improve yields, which had been sagging.
a.
 
Cory6188
Posts: 2609
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:39 am

How does CO's IAH-LIM flight do overall. It's existed for a long time, but you don't really hear much about it.
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:54 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
Dallas-Lima is a horrendous performer for AA

Unless you work for AA in Sales or upper management, how in the world do you know? I never saw anything published by AA the breaks out individual route performance.

If you have, please share it with us.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:39 pm

Quoting Cory6188 (Reply 22):
How does CO's IAH-LIM flight do overall.

Dont know its financial performance, however here were CO's loads in 2004. Certainly better then AA's.

Q1-66%
Q2-68%
Q3-85%
Q4-75%
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
wjcandee
Posts: 5155
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:51 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 23):
Unless you work for AA in Sales or upper management, how in the world do you know?

Most likely the publicly-available stats from the DOT.
 
AA767400
Posts: 1892
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:01 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 23):
Unless you work for AA in Sales or upper management, how in the world do you know? I never saw anything published by AA the breaks out individual route performance.

Mark is in the know. He knows the scoop on any issue related to AA, and MIA for that matter. Trust me, he knows his stuff.
"The low fares airline."
 
LVTMB
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:18 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:24 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 23):
Unless you work for AA in Sales or upper management, how in the world do you know?



Quoting AA767400 (Reply 26):
Mark is in the know. He knows the scoop on any issue related to AA, and MIA for that matter. Trust me, he knows his stuff.

Amen to that. If you regulalrly read/participate of this forum you should know that MAH4546/Mark is a very, very reliable source when it comes to AA, MIA and Latin America. Is it anybody's business who employs him?

MB
 
CALMSP
Posts: 2895
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:31 am

the IAH-LIM flight has always been a great flight for us......not only good loads but the frt coming out of LIM is great as well.
 
jetdeltamsy
Posts: 2688
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 11:51 am

RE: AA Pulls DFW-LIM

Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:58 am

Quoting LVTMB (Reply 27):
MAH4546/Mark is a very, very reliable source when it comes to AA, MIA and Latin America. Is it anybodies business who employs him?

Unless he has access to highly confidential, internal information, the guy is an armchair quarterback. This forum is packed full of people who claim to have an inside track on such information.

Furthermore, any insider who does disclose such information is committing a felony. Private, corporate information is protected under federal law from such disclosures.

It it not my intention to slam the guy. Comments like his need to be taken with a grain of salt because there is very little chance that he really knows the numbers. That's all i'm saying.

This forum is about exchanging factual information and ideas. We need to be careful not to present thoughts and opinions as fact.
Tired of airline bankruptcies....EA/PA/TW and finally DL.

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