RichardJF
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End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:12 pm

With Qantas wisely choosing the 787 does this spell the end for QF's A380 gambit?
 
warreng24
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:16 pm

Two completely different aircraft. The whalejet would be used for the very high traffic asian hubs. The 787 would be used for routes which higher frequencies would be best.
 
Iloveboeing
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:17 pm

I'm not sure, but I think the huge Boeing order is a sign to Airbus that they're not happy.
 
dl021
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:18 pm

Nah...there are some very specific routes that the A380 will fly with very congested hubs.

Of course, long term, there may not be much reason to order many more A-380s if the smaller jets successfully de-hub the system bypassing the central airports.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
BA
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:19 pm

I personally would like to see Qantas go for the 747-8...
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
MarshalN
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:20 pm

I don't see how 787 has anything to do with A380.

Big order for 787 doesn't mean anything about whether they "like" or "dislike" Airbus. They don't like the A350, that's for sure, since they bought the 787, but that still has nothing to do with the A380.
 
bill142
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:22 pm

Not really, QF will be able to fill the A380 up to LHR and LAX. You should take into consideration that probably half of this order is destined for Jetstar.
 
RichardJF
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:23 pm

In Qantas's case LHR doesn't make much sense and the Australia-US routes will fragment like crazy with a massive expansion of cities pairs.
 
jaysit
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:24 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 3):
Of course, long term, there may not be much reason to order many more A-380s if the smaller jets successfully de-hub the system bypassing the central airports

Perhaps.

But when you look at the traffic between the UK and Australia, a majority of the traffic originates in both the London and Sydney metropolitan areas. So, they may continue to need Airbus' megaplane to service the ever growing LHR-SYD traffic.

Still, Airbus is probably not too happy with the way the 787 is capturing the imagination of the world's airlines.
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MarshalN
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:26 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 7):
In Qantas's case LHR doesn't make much sense and the Australia-US routes will fragment like crazy with a massive expansion of cities pairs.

I don't see it, there are at most a few more pairings that you can have, "fragment like crazy" might be a bit of a stretch. SYD/MEL-LHR is still the main destinations.
 
Simpilicity
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:27 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 7):
In Qantas's case LHR doesn't make much sense and the Australia-US routes will fragment like crazy with a massive expansion of cities pairs.

Exactly !!! Unless your origin is SYD & final destination LAX, (or v.v) who'd want to go on a 380 !!!
 
Q330
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:27 pm

Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 2):
I'm not sure, but I think the huge Boeing order is a sign to Airbus that they're not happy.

Despite what I'm sure you'd like to think, it could simply mean that Qantas found the 787 more suitable to their needs.

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 6):
Not really, QF will be able to fill the A380 up to LHR and LAX. You should take into consideration that probably half of this order is destined for Jetstar.

The press release said only 10 of the 787s would go to JQ, but I wouldn't be surprised if they got more.

-Q
Long live the A330!
 
ikramerica
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:28 pm

With the rebuking of the 772LR, the A380 is alive and well and will compete on the SYD-LHR route with SQ and VS and EK, and will fly MEL-LAX until they figure out it's not worth it to do so and switch most of the US to 787 service, except for 744ERs SYD-LAX. I thought they'd go 773ER to the US, but without that order, 789/788 looks like the new answer.
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ER757
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:31 pm

My first thought was no way, they still will need it for LAX/SYD and other similar lanes. But I think the final answer may depend on how they expand using the 787's. If they start flying to SYD and MEL direct from a lot of other US cities instead of feeding all the traffic into LAX via code-share partners, then maybe the A380 isn't essential out of LAX. Same scenario might apply to other hubs in other counties where the A380 would be deployed. Ultimately, I'm sure the Whalejet will have a place in QF's fleet, but how many they eventually keep in their fleet is the question.
 
MarshalN
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:35 pm

Quoting ER757 (Reply 13):
My first thought was no way, they still will need it for LAX/SYD and other similar lanes. But I think the final answer may depend on how they expand using the 787's. If they start flying to SYD and MEL direct from a lot of other US cities instead of feeding all the traffic into LAX via code-share partners, then maybe the A380 isn't essential out of LAX. Same scenario might apply to other hubs in other counties where the A380 would be deployed. Ultimately, I'm sure the Whalejet will have a place in QF's fleet, but how many they eventually keep in their fleet is the question.

Well, how many big destinations are there that are reachable, nonstop, from Australia using 787s? They obviously can't reach the east coast, so it will still be a stop for those pax, in which case LAX works just as well. Given that, I don't know how much fragmentation will happen in that area. Perhaps someone who knows the travel pattern of US bound pax on Qantas will better be able to answer.
 
zvezda
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:35 pm

This B787 doesn't necessarily mean that QF will cancel their WhaleJet order, but it's possible. They could use only B787s to the US, however, all B787s to LHR makes no sense unless the want to abandon the low-yield traffic and just fly nonstop in HGW B787-8s.
 
BlueSky1976
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:37 pm

I said it before and I'll say it again: A380 will be the King of the Kangaroo Route.

Expect QF to replace most - if not all - 747s with A380.
You can cheerlead for Boeing all you want, but that's the shape of things to come.
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dl021
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:37 pm

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 8):
Quoting DL021 (Reply 3):
Of course, long term, there may not be much reason to order many more A-380s if the smaller jets successfully de-hub the system bypassing the central airports

Perhaps.

But when you look at the traffic between the UK and Australia, a majority of the traffic originates in both the London and Sydney metropolitan areas. So, they may continue to need Airbus' megaplane to service the ever growing LHR-SYD traffic.

Well, I was actually counting all the smaller jets....which is everything from the 777 to the A350 (which will sell, even if sometimes only because there are only so many 787s that can be built)

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 8):
Still, Airbus is probably not too happy with the way the 787 is capturing the imagination of the world's airlines.

You are probably very correct there. I'm willing to bet they are trying to spin that ASX release right this second.....
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MarshalN
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:40 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 15):
This B787 doesn't necessarily mean that QF will cancel their WhaleJet order, but it's possible. They could use only B787s to the US, however, all B787s to LHR makes no sense unless the want to abandon the low-yield traffic and just fly nonstop in HGW B787-8s.

And one more consideration -- SLOTS. Who's going to find all those LHR slots?
 
Lufthansa
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:41 pm

Exactly Jaysit

LHR-SYD, especially in the upper classes is very very O & D.
Given the slot restrictions at LHR, switching to the 787 would loose a hell of a lot of money. And that is all it would do.

Lets just look at the inital 63 aircraft. The first lot will go to jetstar, so we'll start seeing them flying into places like HNL, HKT, and maybe places like Rome. Largely new destinations and aimed at winning passengers back from the likes of thai airways.

By the time the next lot start arriving, I would expect maybe upto about 20 aircraft for domestic long hauls. You'll see these aircraft flying to Perth, and on MEL-SYD-BNE. The rest will go to replacing 763 international services, and perhaps some A330-300, although that will definately be last and that will be what the 787-900s do. So we'll see these jets in places like Hong Kong, NRT, Manila and Jakarta. I expect that we'll also see some 787-800s flying to some new asian and North American cities under the Qantas brand. Perhaps Auckland-SFO, BNE-SFO, and MEL-SFO.

That in itself is the whole 63 jets used up.

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 7):
Australia-US routes will fragment like crazy with a massive expansion of cities pairs.

I can't yet see them 'fragmenting like crazy', but certainly it could start to make places like YVR look attractive again. If we are going to see crazy fragmentation, a lot of those options are going to need to be exercised.
This one is largely to replace the 763, and get jetstar flying to places like HNL and rome. Remember the domestic operation (especially considering the A332s are going to jetstar now) is easy going to absorb 20 767-300 replacements.

Any new north American city is going to require at least 3.5 aircraft to give any decent daily frequencies. Link BNE, MEL AKL with SFO and we're already around 10 aircraft, plus YVR, could easily take us to say, 14, and now replace the 10 A330-300s doing Hong Kong routes, and we're at 24 jets....add that to our 20 or so for domestic operations and where at 44, and say another 20 for jetstar to introduce about 3 or 4 new long haul city pairs on a daily basis. And there is our whole order. Making it about Zero threat to A380 (we could fill them all on London alone if we could get more frequencies to the UK)operations, but certainly fighting back EK (places like athens) or thai airways.
 
RichardJF
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:41 pm

This is what makes sense for Qantas on the Pacific all 787
SYD-LAX 2 daily
SYD-SFO daily
SYD-YVR daily
MEL-LAX daily
MEL-SFO daily
MEL-YVR 3 weekly
ADL-LAX 5 weekly
ADL-SFO 3 weekly
BNE-LAX daily
BNE-SFO 3 weekly
 
RichardJF
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:45 pm

If the pacific is really fragmented QF doesn't need to worry too much about EK,SQ and the rest.
 
Lufthansa
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:54 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 20):
SYD-LAX 2 daily
SYD-SFO daily
SYD-YVR daily

That is nowhere near enough capacity for the Sydney market. UA, the marketshare loser, basically puts that much in at the moment and the QF operation is far larger. If you did that, Virgin really would step in. Also it does little to provide room for the all important First class product. If QF stuck the 787 with the first class suite in it, the whole plane would prob be reduced to seating less than 200 people. I think UA had 3 class 767s seating around the 190 mark and that was without first class suites. Thats too higher revenue base to give up, and giving the slot restrictions at SYD and more importantly curfews, additional frequencies would achieve very little, as they'd be at similar departure times. Better off with the bigger bird.

Also MEL-LAX at that reduced capacity isn't good either. QF would now be dumping half of its passengers off in a UA hub at SFO instead of AA's hub. It also doesn't give all those passengers the chance to connect to QF's flight to new york. This then, would be a strain on MEL-LAX' O & D market. MEL-SFO may work, but MEL-LAX needs the capacity, which is partly why there are new MEL-AKL-LAX services being introduced.
 
777STL
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:55 pm

I don't understand why this would be the end for the 380? I'm sure QF took the 380 into account when making their purchasing decision for the 787. It would be ignorant to think otherwise. You don't honestly think they're going go back on a decision they made quite sometime ago and cancel the 380s do you?

Nevermind the capacity difference between the two aircraft, you're basically trying to say watermelons will be replaced by kumquats.
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NAV20
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:56 pm

I expect that Qantas sees their current order for A380s as a 'fact of life'. They are likely to earn their keep on routes to LHR alone if need be. And there's no doubt that, what with launch prices, compensation etc. Qantas will be getting them at very low cost.

I would be surprised if Qantas exercised its options for more A380s, though. 'Standardisation' on the 787 is likely to lead to a lot more routes direct to a wider range of US and Asian destinations, from cities other than Sydney/Melbourne; with a consequent reduction in the passenger numbers (particularly those who are US-bound) which currently 'funnel through' the two major cities.
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MarshalN
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:57 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 20):
SYD-LAX 2 daily
SYD-SFO daily
SYD-YVR daily
MEL-LAX daily
MEL-SFO daily
MEL-YVR 3 weekly
ADL-LAX 5 weekly
ADL-SFO 3 weekly
BNE-LAX daily
BNE-SFO 3 weekly

Interesting how your "fragmenting like crazy" means fragmentation of the Australian, not the US market. SFO+YVR+LAX is hardly fragmentation. And, can a city like Adelaide, with it's 1.5 million population, support 8 flights a week to the US? You sure about that?
 
airfrnt
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:11 pm

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 25):
Interesting how your "fragmenting like crazy" means fragmentation of the Australian, not the US market. SFO+YVR+LAX is hardly fragmentation.

The US Market is already fragmented enough. Flights over the Atlantic are dominated by twins now and may see a bit more fragmentation, but there is not much left.

The point I think of the 787 is that it will enable fragmentation of over the pacific. At the end of the day, that is why I beleive QF ordered the 787.
 
RichardJF
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:11 pm

You have to remember that QF has a natural market of Aussies that want to fly Qantas. Antares being a good example.
QF could go to SYD-DFW or SYD-ORD but they probably don't need to. You can just compete with yourself.
The reason they have had 744's running SYD,MEL,BNE and AKL only up until now to LAX is that's the best business case.
The Aussies will love the idea of flying out of their own home city and hate transferring at Sydney.
 
Fly2CHC
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:17 pm

Is this really a surprise to anyone given Australia's political alliance with the US????
 
jaysit
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:21 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 7):
In Qantas's case LHR doesn't make much sense and the Australia-US routes will fragment like crazy with a massive expansion of cities pairs.

Boise-Alice Springs, anyone? Not.

Even with a 787, you can only reach the US West Coast from Australia. That gives you flights to SFO, LAX, SEA. Perhaps, SAN and YVR in CA. The East coast is still out of reach, and there just isn't enough traffic from Kentucky, Kansas, or North Dakota.

I say watch these 787s being utilized heavily out of Brisbane to feed Korean and Japanese travellers who love the tackiness of the Gold Coast, and the newly monied Chinese middle classes who over the next 20 years will follow their East Asian neighbors' obsession with Brisbane and surroundings.
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redflyer
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:21 pm

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 28):
Is this really a surprise to anyone given Australia's political alliance with the US????

So what was the excuse when they ordered the 380?
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RichardJF
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:26 pm

Lufthansa you right.
Sydney will need bigger planes but QF should have waited for the 748.
The vast majority of tourists want to go to Sydney. Other tourist attractions in Australia are more limited. Queensland is appealing to Aussies, Kiwi's and Asia but not necessaily that saleable in the US market.
There's not likely to be much money in flying to LHR it's EK and SQ's market not the end of the line players.
 
D L X
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:29 pm

Can the 380 fly SYD-LHR-SYD?

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 20):
This is what makes sense for Qantas on the Pacific all 787
SYD-LAX 2 daily
SYD-SFO daily
SYD-YVR daily
MEL-LAX daily
MEL-SFO daily
MEL-YVR 3 weekly
ADL-LAX 5 weekly
ADL-SFO 3 weekly
BNE-LAX daily
BNE-SFO 3 weekly

Add in SYD/MEL-DFW a couple times too.
 
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N328KF
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:31 pm

Sounds like the QF 787 order is vindication for Boeing's "point to point" philosophy.
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
BA
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:35 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 32):
Can the 380 fly SYD-LHR-SYD?

No, the only airliner that can technically do it is the 777-200LR, but it can just barely do it under perfect conditions.

For it to be able to do it on a regular basis under a variety of conditions (mainly wind conditions), the 777-200LR will require a slight range boost.

If I remember correctly, the 777-200LR will require a range boost off about 100nm before Qantas would consider using it on SYD-LHR-SYD non-stop.

Remember that SYD-LHR faces headwinds, while LHR-SYD will have tailwinds.

Regards

[Edited 2005-12-14 06:42:42]
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SFORunner
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:37 pm

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...nology/2002682245_webboeing13.html

And Dixon said the carrier will decide later on its large aircraft needs, choosing at that time between the Airbus superjumbo A380 and the new version of the Boeing 747 jumbo jet.
 
Simpilicity
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:48 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 20):
This is what makes sense for Qantas on the Pacific all 787
SYD-LAX 2 daily
SYD-SFO daily
SYD-YVR daily
MEL-LAX daily
MEL-SFO daily
MEL-YVR 3 weekly
ADL-LAX 5 weekly
ADL-SFO 3 weekly
BNE-LAX daily
BNE-SFO 3 weekly

You forgot BNE/YVR, or better still BNE/YXX, roughly same distance of SYD/LAX.

Also what about BNE/DEN or better still BNE/COS?
 
antares
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:58 pm

The guidance for analysts is quite explicit on the A380.

Dixon says Qantas is 'very confident' about the A380 and is 'certain' to buy more. He hasn't said how many.

He also said the A330s would remain in the fleet, and hinted that the airline might try and get a small additional number. I'm interpolating here, but this sounds a bit like CX topping up its A330s with three while choosing the 777-300ER to take over from the A346s and no doubt some or all of the A343s.

In the meantime...wicked thought...I wonder just how much money shareholders might make out of performance or delivery date penalties from both the A380 and 787s, should they be triggered on a large scale. Just a thought, if the market has a hiccup, say a few more birds die here and there in the next three or four years, a delay plus a penalty would be very nice thank you.

But I hope there are no delays. Boeing has sold me on the promised delights of large windows and thicker air. Bring them on.

Antares
 
RichardJF
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:00 pm

I forgot CBR-LAX 3 weekly.
 
Simpilicity
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:06 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 38):
I forgot CBR-LAX 3 weekly.

What about low frequency, say once a week, PER/BNE/SFO or ADL/BNE/YXX?

Canada 3000 proved when they flew into OZ twice a week, that people will fit their itineraries around low frequency, if the price is right, ie. JetStar Int.
 
MarshalN
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:08 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 31):
Sydney will need bigger planes but QF should have waited for the 748.
The vast majority of tourists want to go to Sydney. Other tourist attractions in Australia are more limited. Queensland is appealing to Aussies, Kiwi's and Asia but not necessaily that saleable in the US market.
There's not likely to be much money in flying to LHR it's EK and SQ's market not the end of the line players.

I'm sorry, but you sound really ignorant here.

1) Why should they have waited for the 748? What, if anything, indicated that Boeing had any intention of making a new 747 when QF ordered the A380s? Magic crystal ball? How do you wait for something that you don't know will exist? Not to mention -- why is the 748 better than A380 so that QF should've waited for it?

2) QF must be out of their mind flying so many flights to LHR then, if there's not much money in flying there. I'm sure they can utilize their planes better if there's not much money to be had. I'm sure also that their choice in NOT ordering the 772LR must be because they just want to give the whole market away to SQ and EK, according to your logic.

3) If, according to you, the vast majority of tourists want to go to Sydney, then wouldn't it make sense to have more flights (or, god forbid, bigger planes) flying into Sydney instead of going to, oh, Adelaide?
 
Halibut
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:21 pm

Quoting RichardJF (Thread starter):
With Qantas wisely choosing the 787 does this spell the end for QF's A380 gambit?

Not sure ?

But the 747-8 certainly won't help matters regarding the A380 !
Boeing 747-8 To Eat Into A380 Sales 1 To 1 Basis.? (by Halibut Dec 14 2005 in Civil Aviation)

Halibut
6 million Jews were slaughtered-Do you see Jews flying planes into buildings in Germany to kill 1000s of innocent, NO !
 
RichardJF
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:26 pm

The A380 is perfect for EK and what their trying to do. But not many others the 748 covers it fine. Boeing's strategically brilliant over the last few years.
 
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PM
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:10 pm

Quoting MarshalN (Reply 5):
They don't like the A350, that's for sure, since they bought the 787

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. It seems that this contest was very, very close. They like the 787 more, for sure, but it's possible to "like" both types. (Possible for an airline as much as an A.Netter!)

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
Lets just look at the inital 63 aircraft.

I thought it was 65?  Sad

Quoting Fly2CHC (Reply 28):
Is this really a surprise to anyone given Australia's political alliance with the US????

I think that's irrelevant. More significant is QF's long association with Boeing. Their order for A330s in 2000 was the real shock.
 
vfw614
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:17 pm

Ceterum censeo....

Places like LHR and FRA are a) slot-constrained and b) have a night curfew. It does not make sense nor would it be be possible to serve these airports by spreading, say, 3 or 4 Boeing 787 flights over day. Just remember how much they paid in 2004 for a pair of LHR-slots....And, quite honestly, do you seriously expect flights like LBA-ADL or HAJ-BNE only because the Boeing 787 is on the drawing board ?

I am pretty certain that the Boeing 787 will be used on a very limited basis on the European routes. As others have said, they are most likely to be used for domestics, flights to Asian destinations and the US West Coast. Other long-haul markets will mainly be served with the A380 and/or through hubs/code-shares.
 
na
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:12 pm

If anything, this Qantas order is a 777 killer.
It has nothing to do with the A380. That gamble is left to the 747-8I.
 
NumberTwelve
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:21 pm

Quoting Iloveboeing (Reply 2):
I think the huge Boeing order is a sign to Airbus that they're not happy.

Not happy with what?
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Gemuser
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RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:29 pm

I think a LOT of you are over estimating the economic possibilities of market fragementation to/from Australia. Yes there will definately be market fragmentation especially Oz - Asia and Oz - West Coast USA, probabley less so Oz - Europe.

One factor that is very important is that OVER half the population of the country live in the two big hubs, SYD/MEL. And its the more economically active half too.

As a result traffic between SYD/MEL & LHR, SIN, LAX & DFW will fully utilise all A380 on order/option. The first three will be mainly O&D traffic & DFW (IF the A380 can do it non stop, with sufficient payload) will become the gateway to every where east of the Rockies. LAX will remain the gateway for west of the Rockies.

The 787 will result in more service non stop to west coast cities such as SFO (to daily if not already), YVR, SEA?, PDX? PHX?? from SYD/MEL. Also BNE-LAX/SFO (maybe) ADL and PER (one stop) to LAX and maybe, just maybe CNS - somewhere. But thats it.

In Asia I expect to see extra services from SYD/MEL and other cities to KUL, SGN, SEL, HKT and India.

All the above will be a mixture of QF, JQ & AO

Any more than that I really dont see as economicllly viable in the forseeable future.

Gemuser
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monteycarlos
Posts: 2018
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:16 pm

RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 6:42 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 10):
Exactly !!! Unless your origin is SYD & final destination LAX, (or v.v) who'd want to go on a 380 !!!

Well I am guessing most of the traffic is straight out of MEL, BNE and SYD and mostly destined for LAX, ORD and JFK. So go figure on whether QF will throw money away running half full 787's to the US and back.

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 20):
This is what makes sense for Qantas on the Pacific all 787

Have you thought about this?

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 27):
The Aussies will love the idea of flying out of their own home city and hate transferring at Sydney.

You are being really ignorant here? Do you know where most of the Australian population is located? MEL, BNE and SYD. All three will have daily services (probably on an A380) to LAX. And guess what... if they fill a 380, then I wonder how many 787s they would have to run in place of it?

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 31):
Sydney will need bigger planes but QF should have waited for the 748.

The 748 is not bigger than the 380... and why would they wait for a more expensive plane?

Quoting N328KF (Reply 33):
Sounds like the QF 787 order is vindication for Boeing's "point to point" philosophy.

Well not on this route, but on the other routes that QF and JQ ordered it for that is indeed the case.

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 35):
And Dixon said the carrier will decide later on its large aircraft needs, choosing at that time between the Airbus superjumbo A380 and the new version of the Boeing 747 jumbo jet.

Isn't it between the 777 and A340?

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 38):
I forgot CBR-LAX 3 weekly.

You can barely fill a Warrior out of CBR.

Quoting Halibut (Reply 41):
But the 747-8 certainly won't help matters regarding the A380 !

Using your own opinion as factual evidence?

Quoting RichardJF (Reply 42):
Boeing's strategically brilliant over the last few years.

Possibly... but your ignorance doesn't prove that.
It's a beautiful night to fly like a phoenix...
 
astuteman
Posts: 6341
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: End Of The Road For Qantas A380's

Wed Dec 14, 2005 7:08 pm

Quoting SFORunner (Reply 35):
And Dixon said the carrier will decide later on its large aircraft needs, choosing at that time between the Airbus superjumbo A380 and the new version of the Boeing 747 jumbo jet.



Quoting Antares (Reply 37):
The guidance for analysts is quite explicit on the A380.

Dixon says Qantas is 'very confident' about the A380 and is 'certain' to buy more. He hasn't said how many.

Clever lad, Dixon. First he delays and delays the mid-size order to get ABSOLUTELY best price for his preferred choice, and he's now doing the same for any future A380 purchases. Quite right too.
A