dagolden1
Posts: 46
Joined: Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:04 pm

Free For All Boarding Article

Wed Dec 14, 2005 1:49 pm

http://www.nature.com/news/2005/051205/full/051205-11.html

This article is pretty interesting, and I totally agree with it. I tend to fly a lot and notice that when boarding planes with an assigned seat it takes a little longer than the free for all process. Let's just see how long it takes someone to rip a 'certain' airline on this post though.
 
UpperDeck79
Posts: 1062
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:14 pm

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Wed Dec 14, 2005 2:53 pm

"Window seats first", as they suggest, sounds like a very good idea!
AY and ANA rock!
 
irelayer
Posts: 929
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:34 pm

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:48 pm

Quoting Dagolden1 (Thread starter):
Let's just see how long it takes someone to rip a 'certain' airline on this post though.

Yes this has been proven in most cases...BUT...I think the WN policy is primarily designed to help along the and encourage the efficiency of the boarding process...people check in earlier, people get to the gate earlier, people line up earlier...all without having to be told. It fits right into what WN wants to do...

-IR
 
BHXFAOTIPYYC
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:47 am

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:46 pm

I like pre-assigned seating - that to me is a little luxury, and part of my journey. However, that is purely a personal preference and I see exactly why airlines have a free seating policy. In terms of faster boarding, I do not understand Easyjets policy of now allowing, within reason, unlimited hand baggage weight. OK, less luggage in the hold also means less unloading time, but slower boarding. People don't always move to the back of the a/c, so between the extra carry-on and all the bottles and cartons of cigarettes people grab in the airport....
Breakfast in BHX, lunch in FAO, dinner in TIP, baggage in YYC.
 
764
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2001 6:34 pm

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:01 am

Personally I refuse to fly on an airline that won't allow me to reserve my seat ahead of time. But of course most of my flights are longhaul and so it does make a difference.

On trips that only take an hour or so I am much more mellow about seat assignments and oftentimes even forget to reserve one. So for the short feeder flights free seating certainly is an option. BUT airlines have to make sure that there are no "horror seats" on the aircraft, which have to be avoided at all cost (the MD-80 seats next to the engine without any view come to mind).

However, after "they" have taken away free food, reduced luggage allowance and made flying less enjoyable over all, I am willing to distinguish between airlines that offer seat assignments and airlines that don't. By the way - I also refuse to fly on carriers that charge extra for reserving seats.
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:18 am

Actually this has nothing to do with pre-assigned seating vs no seat assignments ... It's about how you board the plane.

In fact, reading the article, it would actually be more efficient to pre-assign seats, then either board randomly, or best, board windows first. Random boarding with no seat assignments would definitely be worse, since this is almost the same as boarding front seats first, holding up everyone until only middle seats are left .... random boarding with seats assigned means the plane is filled up with less people trying to get just the seats at the front of the plane.

I think the biggest change that would make boarding much easier and faster, would be strict adherence to the carry-on policy. People are held up not because they are trying to get to their seats...it's because they are trying to stow their 3 large bags somewhere.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12423
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:22 am

On short haul flights - up to 2 hours on the a/c, if better than average seat pitch and on mainline a/c (not RJ's), then open seating like that of WN is ok. Also, if the flight only is >60% full, then it's fine. Most of the LGA-BOS/DCA shuttle services used to or still have open seating. Wether it be open or reserved seating, those needing assistance due to disability, minors traveling alone, families with children, are generally given priority to board.
Now if we could arrange it so those with a lot of, large or heavy carry on bags could be boarded last with any system, that would be a lot better  biggrin 
 
bond007
Posts: 4423
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:07 am

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:31 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 6):
Now if we could arrange it so those with a lot of, large or heavy carry on bags could be boarded last with any system, that would be a lot better

Well, if the airlines stopped people boarding who had large/heavy carry-ons, and made them check them, then we'd all be better.

It seems the majority of people boarding have carry-ons that are over the limits, then those that board last with one small roll-on are forced to check it because all the overheads are full.


Jimbo
I'd rather be on the ground wishing I was in the air, than in the air wishing I was on the ground!
 
PanAm747
Posts: 4713
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 4:46 am

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:52 am

What would REALLY make boarding go faster is if when they say "we're boarding the last rows only at this time, rows 35-40", then they should enforce that!! I think people who board before their assigned time need to be smacked and smacked hard...and no, I'm not talking about pre-boarding special needs.

It has become a free-for-all when airlines won't enforce their own rules. ONE carry-on and ONE personal item. Everything else checked. Board ONLY at your designated call time - the plane won't leave without you.

Get on, sit down, buckle up, and shaddup...here we go!!  duck 

Thanks for letting me rant.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 6:29 pm

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:36 am

In my opinion, I think the whole "windows" first would be more effiecient, but the article/expiriments doesn't take into consideration "product differentiation".

As an AA Platinum Member, I like to be one of the first pax to board and get to my seat and have enough time and space to put my items where I want them, not to mention to be able to sit down properly without having to get rushed......

I also like to choose where I sit as I primarily sit in the emergency exit row (95%), and if I don't get one, then I like to make sure I get a "power port" for my laptop...

these things might sound trivial, but after 40-60 flights a year, with 4 hours being the average minimum, I'm glad I get to have my choices....even if its a few dollars extra..

I'm sure thousands of pax share the same views as I do...
"Up the Irons!"
 
vatveng
Posts: 1094
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:49 pm

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:12 am

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
What would REALLY make boarding go faster is if when they say "we're boarding the last rows only at this time, rows 35-40", then they should enforce that!!

Every time I fly AirTran I see this enforced. The gate agents regularly turn someone away who isn't paying attention or is trying to board out of turn.

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 8):
It has become a free-for-all when airlines won't enforce their own rules. ONE carry-on and ONE personal item. Everything else checked.

At PHF at least, FL can be quite militant about enforcing this one. Even to the point of the agent boarding the plane, finding the offending passenger than snuck past (after being told at the podium to check one of those 2 huge duffels), and removing one of his/her bags from the overhead and sending it down the chute to the ramp.
 
Bridogger6
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:21 am

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:26 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 9):
In my opinion, I think the whole "windows" first would be more effiecient, but the article/expiriments doesn't take into consideration "product differentiation".

HP does board windows first. Their boarding groups are set up as a reverse pyramid rather than strictly back to front. It is truly a quick and efficient boarding process that would be a million times more efficient if we didn't have to pre board first class... I think that's why WN honestly gets people on the plane faster... they don't have to have everyone in first class getting all situated and holding up the whole plane before everyone else can get on... that is at least a small part of why WN is quicker.

But HP's method is based on a study of boarding processes conducted by Arizona State University and they have kept the process ever since. It seems to work pretty well.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:32 am

The real problem with the boarding process is not the assignment or lack of assignment for seats - it's the number and size of the carry on luggage that is carried on. Everyone carries at least two bags (a rollaboard) and a briefcase or purse.

The fact of the matter is that their isn't enough space for it all so people always try to rush to the head of the line in order to secure the limited carryon space.

I would suggest the following - make the number of carryons dependant on your FF status. Elites get their two bags. Non-elite FF get one bag rollaboard size or smaller. None FF or those with greatly discounted tickets get just a small personal item.

This does a couple of things:

1. It encourages loyalty because it gives you a very tangible and very useful reward for achieving Elite.

2. It would reduce the number of bags brought aboard.

3. The reduction of the number of bags would greatly expedite the boarding process and allow an easier implementation of the window, center, aisle boarding system that makes logical sense for reducing aisle congestion.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
Bridogger6
Posts: 665
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:21 am

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:35 am

Actually, it's really not so much the number of bags that people bring on the aircraft, those can be easily tagged and checked to their final destination and be taking out of the way... it's the fact that people who sit in the back of the plane feel they must stow all their carry on items in the front of the aircraft, so when the people in the front of the plane, who board last, come on board, they find there is no room for their carry-ons except for in the back of the plane. This happens every flight.. I wish flight attendants would be more proactive in stopping this... some are but most don't care.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: Free For All Boarding Article

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:46 am

Quoting Bridogger6 (Reply 13):
Actually, it's really not so much the number of bags that people bring on the aircraft, those can be easily tagged and checked to their final destination and be taking out of the way... it's the fact that people who sit in the back of the plane feel they must stow all their carry on items in the front of the aircraft

I disagree. Particularly in winter on business heavy routes (i.e. ATL - LGA) everyone has two bags plus a heavy winter coat. Their absolutely isn't enough room for the bags no matter where you put them. On my flight this morning, the FA's had to check about 20 bags airside due to lack of space.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.