rumorboy
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ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:48 am

Looks like the airport wants more gates and wants to build a new terminal on the south side with up to 70 new gates.



http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/stories/2005/12/12/daily20.html
 
ultrapig
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:56 am

Excuse me-but will the exisitng runways support that many more planes fromthat many more gates?
 
Kahala777
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:58 am

Quoting Rumorboy (Thread starter):
Looks like the airport wants more gates and wants to build a new terminal on the south side with up to 70 new gates

Is this to replace the existing terminal complex at Atlanta. It is well know that the only airlines making money to Atlanta are Air Tran and Delta Airlines. With already exhausting taxi and delay times, why isnt Atlanta going to become slot controlled?

KAHALA777
 
deltagator
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:01 am

There has been talk about this for a while now. I believe the International Terminal has been put on hold so I could see this one getting delayed as well. It is supposed to be for AirTran and other airlines/LCCs that want to get out of the crappy D Concourse. We'll see what happens but I wouldn't expect it for a while.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
SHUPirate1
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:29 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 2):
It is well know (sic) that the only airlines making money to Atlanta are Air Tran (sic) and Delta Airlines (sic).

Delta makes money in Atlanta? Gee, their SEC Filings don't seem to bear that out...if that was the case, why don't they just cut every single flight they have with the exception of their Atlanta operation?   

Edited to point out more spelling errors in quote...

[Edited 2005-12-14 19:31:09]
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ord
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:32 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 2):
It is well know that the only airlines making money to Atlanta are Air Tran and Delta Airlines.

I would think all airlines that serve Atlanta make money flying to Atlanta or else they would drop the city from their respective route systems.
 
galapagapop
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:58 am

Well if something happens to DL we will be seeing several hundred empty gates at ATL so not sure why they need this right now.
 
srbmod
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:07 am

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 1):
Excuse me-but will the exisitng runways support that many more planes fromthat many more gates?

Yes, especially with the fifth runway opening up next year.

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 2):
Is this to replace the existing terminal complex at Atlanta.

No. This is the expansion to the International Concourse (including a dedicated International Terminal so that folks won't have to trek from the Main Terminal to E) and the proposed South Terminal. All this has been long in the planning stages as part of the ATL Master Plan.

Part of the reasons for the new South Terminal is due to the lack of gate space at the airport. More than likely, this terminal will be for AirTran, and AirTran's gates on C become Delta Connection gates, and Delta's gates on D (including Delta Connection) become gates for future airlines to serve ATL. The airport admits that the lack of gate space during certain times of the day has hurt the airport in attracting additional airline service.
 
wjcandee
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:18 am

Gotta love local public officials.

Hello, guys. Just look at DFW. Enough said. $1.8 billion. Gawd.

DL is contracting. More gates will be available. Just let it play out, and put the money towards something useful.
 
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Midway737
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:27 am

Now What??

Should ATL wait to see if DL will emerge BK? What happen to the old terminal that replace the current terminal?? Would have kept the old terminal for that matter.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:31 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
DL is contracting. More gates will be available. Just let it play out, and put the money towards something useful.

While DL is contracting, I wouldn't count on them giving up a single gate in ATL....particularly to their arch-rival, Airtran. Not to mention that much of the contraction isn't occurring at ATL...it's at CVG and to a lesser extent SLC.
Plus, while DL is cutting some domestic flights at ATL, they are adding a ton of international flights.

So unless DL liquidates, I can't see them giving up gates at ATL.

If I remember correctly, Independence has its own gate (probably leased from the city) on Concourse D. That gate should be available soon for Airtran, though I don't think its directly adjacent to Airtran's other "D" gates.
 
OttoPylit
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:17 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 8):
DL is contracting. More gates will be available. Just let it play out, and put the money towards something useful.

DL may be contracting, but they aren't giving up gates. As long as the airport gets their rent money, they could care less if you use gate space for a yard sale or a toxic waste dump. So despite how much Delta may "contract," no gates will be going up from Delta.


And who is to say this new terminal can't be used by Delta? If Delta suddenly plans for a major expansion around the time the terminal is being built, and if the terminal gets connected to the main Worldport, then why wouldn't Delta not be allowed to use those gates as well, even if they were common use gates?



OttoPylit
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DAL767400ER
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:13 pm

Quoting OttoPylit (Reply 11):
And who is to say this new terminal can't be used by Delta? If Delta suddenly plans for a major expansion around the time the terminal is being built, and if the terminal gets connected to the main Worldport, then why wouldn't Delta not be allowed to use those gates as well, even if they were common use gates?

I doubt that DL would want anything to do with the South Terminal. They would rather tell Mr De Costa to tell all non-DL domestic airlines to move south, so that DL will have the whole then-North, including all T-gates and the whole C- and D-concourses.
Also, as per the masterplan, the two terminal complexes are to be connected through an extension of MARTA.
 
DeltaGuy
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:17 pm

Maybe in all this shuffle they can turn the airport back to it's rightful name, The William B. Hartsfield Atlanta Airport Sad

DeltaGuy
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DAL767400ER
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:09 pm

Quoting DeltaGuy (Reply 13):
Maybe in all this shuffle they can turn the airport back to it's rightful name, The William B. Hartsfield Atlanta Airport

No, how dare you even think about that? Do you know how racist that would be, discriminating at Maynard Jackson? You sure are one hateful person.
Signed,

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton


 Silly
 
Indy
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:12 pm

Considering they spent over a billion dollars on the 5th runway and are talking about $1.8 billion for 70 additional gates wouldn't it be wiser if Atlanta really needed more capacity to build an entirely new airport for that much money? Between the 5th runway and the 70 gates you are talking about $3 billion dollars. It would seem there would be a much greater return on investment dollar to move away from the delay nightmare that is ATL. Build somewhere else around the city and get a fresh start. Leave DL to soak in the schedule enduced delay problems that they have created.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
WDBRR
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:49 pm

Another thread on this web site stated AirTran is getting 5 more gates soon on the D concourse, anyone have any information?
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:28 pm

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 16):
Another thread on this web site stated AirTran is getting 5 more gates soon on the D concourse, anyone have any information?

No official info, but indeed there soon could be a couple of gates available: One from FlyI, who I consider highly likely to be gone from ATL sooner than later, and another 1 or 2 when US and HP move together. Other than that, FL might be putting some flights on the E-gates, if they really feel the need to.
 
william
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:05 pm

You could not build an airport for 3 billion dollars. Not today with the NIMBYs and environmentalists around. Wishful thinking.
 
rumorboy
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:14 am

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 16):



Quoting WDBRR (Reply 16):
Another thread on this web site stated AirTran is getting 5 more gates soon on the D concourse, anyone have any information?

I don't know this for sure but I saw new construction started on the end of the D concourse and in between Continental gates(those gates are pretty wide)maybe those are it. Probably will be done in the spring.
 
Indy
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:22 am

Quoting William (Reply 18):
You could not build an airport for 3 billion dollars. Not today with the NIMBYs and environmentalists around. Wishful thinking.

It might be wishful thinking but it has to be a better idea than putting in good money over bad at ATL. Isn't there another airport around Atlanta that could be refurbished and expanded?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
rumorboy
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:26 am

Quoting Indy (Reply 20):
It might be wishful thinking but it has to be a better idea than putting in good money over bad at ATL. Isn't there another airport around Atlanta that could be refurbished and expanded?

There are other airports around the metro ATL area but the people will not allow it and of course Delta and Airtran would try to block it.
 
n757kw
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:10 am

The ever changing South Terminal complex was originally planned to be a commuter terminal. However, that has changed many times and has had many incarnations. I suspect it may take a while to be built if ever built.

The new international terminal will eventually be built. There was a cost problem with the original planners so a new one has been chosen, I think. The airport guys don't always tell you everything.

For the person who asked about the old 1956 terminal, most of that terminal was taken be the northern most runway, and the administration building was taken by the hotel.

ATL has always been a money pit and will continue to be so. The joys of city politics. I just wish we had better cargo facilities. ATL keeps improving the passenger side, but sort of forgets the cargo. Oh well.

N757KW
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iowaman
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 2:53 am

Quoting ORD (Reply 5):
I would think all airlines that serve Atlanta make money flying to Atlanta or else they would drop the city from their respective route systems.

If that was true all the airlines would be making money.
 
BR715-A1-30
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:57 am

I believe this was a part of their master plan some time ago. It included the new tower, 5th runway, and new international terminal and concourse.
Puhdiddle
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:15 am

IMO a central APM station should be included for two APM lines for the terminals.

One train should go to Concourses T, A, B, C, D, E, and the new international terminal. (Red Line)

Another train shoud be a shuttle from the main terminal to the South Passenger Complex. (Blue Line)

A third APM line, which would be located outside of the terminals, should go from the main terminal to the CONRAC. (Green Line)

BTW IMO, the ATL South Passenger Complex should be given the name "Z Terminal". The gates would be numbered Z1, Z2, Z3, and so on.

[Edited 2005-12-15 21:22:42]
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srbmod
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:25 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 17):

No official info, but indeed there soon could be a couple of gates available: One from FlyI, who I consider highly likely to be gone from ATL sooner than later, and another 1 or 2 when US and HP move together. Other than that, FL might be putting some flights on the E-gates, if they really feel the need to.



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
If I remember correctly, Independence has its own gate (probably leased from the city) on Concourse D. That gate should be available soon for Airtran, though I don't think its directly adjacent to Airtran's other "D" gates.

The Indy Air gate could probably be turned over to AirTran within hours of Indy pulling out. They use D-7, the nearest FL gate on D is D-5. It really doesn't matter how many gates HP uses, as they and FL share the gates on the end of D (D-1 through D-5), and other than Hooters Air, nobody else uses the gates on a regular basis. HP mainly uses D-3, and also use D-1 as well. FL is the primary airline out of those gates (F9 goes out of D-9, which they share with YX). FL will be operating their ATL-CUN flights out of E once they finally launch the service.

Quoting Indy (Reply 20):
It might be wishful thinking but it has to be a better idea than putting in good money over bad at ATL. Isn't there another airport around Atlanta that could be refurbished and expanded?

IMHO, the best bet for a second Atlanta-area airport is over @ AHN (Athens-Ben Epps Airport) There are plans to lengthen the main runway to 6500' feet or even 7000' (and to widen it to 150') and build a new terminal building that would be accessed from off of US-78. For a large number of folks AHN is closer to them than ATL is. Currently AHN has several times a day service to CLT via US Airways Express (Air Midwest) using B1900s. ASA once offered ATL-AHN service, but that's been a number of years ago (probably when they still had Banderantes.).
 
Indy
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:38 am

6500 to 7000 would be perfect for the 737 correct?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
fewsolarge
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:15 am

I wish they would think again about the land slated for the CONRAC (across I-85 from the current terminal). That paints planners into a corner when the inevitable time comes when the current terminal is no longer sufficient, even considering new ones to the East and South. I think they should hold that land for a replacement for the current terminal, which could then be demolished to build new concourses. The CONRAC is a good idea, but IMHO the land is of too much strategic value for that purpose.
 
positiverate
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:22 am

Quoting Kahala777 (Reply 2):
With already exhausting taxi and delay times, why isnt Atlanta going to become slot controlled?

Show me the statistics that support ATL becoming a slot controlled airport.
 
Indy
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:30 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 29):
Show me the statistics that support ATL becoming a slot controlled airport.

Besides it being the 2nd most delay prone airport in the nation with 72 delays per 1,000 operations? That is second only to O'hare.

http://www.gao.gov/htext/d05755t.html
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
ATLgaUSA
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:34 am

Athens is really not closer for anyone in metro Atlanta with the traffic issues on 316. Maybe closer for the folks in Lawerenceville, but that's not enough to develop it for commercial service.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:48 am

Quoting Fewsolarge (Reply 28):
I think they should hold that land for a replacement for the current terminal, which could then be demolished to build new concourses.

This would have to cause a mass renaming in the concourses. Concourse T was named because it forms a T connected to the terminal. What should it be called if the terminal is demolished and new concourses are built in place of the old terminal?
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srbmod
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:58 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 32):

This would have to cause a mass renaming in the concourses. Concourse T was named because it forms a T connected to the terminal.

Nope. The name has nothing to do with the shape. T is short for Terminal Gates since the gates are connected to the Terminal building.

Quoting ATLgaUSA (Reply 31):
Athens is really not closer for anyone in metro Atlanta with the traffic issues on 316. Maybe closer for the folks in Lawerenceville, but that's not enough to develop it for commercial service.

 
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1337Delta764
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:44 am

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 33):
Nope. The name has nothing to do with the shape. T is short for Terminal Gates since the gates are connected to the Terminal building.

Still it would have to be renamed if the current terminal is demolished in favor of new concourses.

I would think if this would happen (highly unlikely), two new concourses would take its place, and the westernmost concourse would be named A, the second would be named B.

Concourse T would be renamed C, A would be renamed D, B would be renamed E, C would be renamed F, D would be renamed G, E would be renamed H. The second international concourse, which will probably be known as Concourse F, would be renamed I.
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airfrnt
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:22 am

The big problem right now in Atlanta is the security systems there. They have the most convoluted system I have ever seen for routing different passengers through any nook and cranny they can get more detection systems in. Last I looked they were even routing people downstairs into the international area to get thru metal dectors there. They need more ability to screen passengers or they have no capability to grow.
 
WDBRR
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:40 am

does anyone know why concourse "D" is like 10 feet narrower than concourses A, B, & C? Was this a Southern Airways/Republic hub terminal?
 
deltagator
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 9:49 am

Quoting ATLgaUSA (Reply 31):
Athens is really not closer for anyone in metro Atlanta with the traffic issues on 316. Maybe closer for the folks in Lawerenceville, but that's not enough to develop it for commercial service.

And would you really want UGA grads checking you in, working around the planes, and being in charge of security? I don't think so.  duck  Sorry, I just couldn't leave it alone.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
srbmod
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RE: ATL Wants 1.8 Billion For 70 New Gates

Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:56 am

Quoting WDBRR (Reply 36):
does anyone know why concourse "D" is like 10 feet narrower than concourses A, B, & C? Was this a Southern Airways/Republic hub terminal?

Southern was the last of the Atlanta-based airlines (and other airlines operating @ ATL) to finally agree to move to Midfield, so they really didn't get to have the input on their concourse like Delta and Eastern did, so they got the scraps so to speak. The narrow hallways makes it hard to really have the kiosks like on the other concourses without really causing traffic jams on the concourse.