eugdog
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Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:53 am

The A340 cabin is significantly inferior to the Boeing 777. The floor is unusually high to improve cargo capacity. this makes the cabin rather cramped especially for window seated passengers. This is because the wall of the cabin curves inwards. It is like being in a small cylinder

The 777 cabin is much more spacious. As well as its it innovative cieling and the brilliantly designed overhead bins the walls are almost vertical.

These things matter on a long haul flight - I hope for Airbus sake that they can improve the sense of spaciousness on the A350. The 787 (if the Boeing pictures are to be believed) are going to ceiling leading to the top of the roof of the plane. The 787 could have a decisive edge on passenger appeal. Nornally this is not very important (the superior cabin of the a320 has not given it a decisive edge over the 737s). But for long haul flights the significantly better cabin of the 787 could be a huge selling point for Boeing. I also understand the the 787 will have a more humid atmosphere and lower cabin pressure. This could be very critcal for long haul especially for business travellers

The A330/340 seems to be a poor design choice - the fuselarge is too narrow making it useless as a frieghter. It also makes it difficult to stretched without significant strenghtening of the structure which causes a large wieght penalty- I think this is the reason why the economics of the stretched A340 cannot match that of the 777s
 
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Stitch
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:56 am

I just don't think most customers care what the inside of the plane looks like, to be honest. They care about seating, IFE, and service and in those areas, an A340 is as effective as a 777 and with some 1000 orders for the A330/A340/A50, the design is obviously not that bad.  Wink
 
HS748
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:59 am

How many passengers (other than a.netters) give a toss about what aircraft they fly? I certainly can't see any airline making multi-billion dollar investment decisions based on how window passengers in economy class feel.
 
eugdog
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:19 am

I agree that cabin size did not matter in the past. This is because cabins were very similar on Boeing and Airbus. This has all changed! The Boeing 787 having such a vastly superior cabin and the higher cabin temperature and humidiy this could really be a major selling point.

Imagine if you are business travellor facing a long haul flight - surely you would try to go on 787 then a more conventional aircraft with its low cabin pressure and very dry air. You would arrive at you business destination so much fresher and ready to do business!!!!

Cabin conditions do matter - why have airlines spend £1000s per seat on IFE it passengers did not give a toss
 
atmx2000
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:30 am

Quoting HS748 (Reply 2):
How many passengers (other than a.netters) give a toss about what aircraft they fly? I certainly can't see any airline making multi-billion dollar investment decisions based on how window passengers in economy class feel.

It doesn't matter so much for the normal 8 across seating in an A340, but 9 across would be rather unpleasant because of the curvature of the fuselage.

It has been apparent for some time that the 787 cross section is a very smart design, particularly when combined with the reduced spacing between cabin wall and fuselage made possible by various characteristics of the composite barrell sections that make up the 787 fuselage.
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ba319-131
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:39 am

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
The A330/340 seems to be a poor design choice - the fuselarge is too narrow making it useless as a frieghter

-What? The fuselage is the same width as the A300/A310 which are excellent freighters.........
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irelayer
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:48 am

It goes the other way too, let's remember. Airbus constantly touts the A32X's wider cabin width as an advantage over 737NG's. It is not an argument that is totally without merit...

-IR
 
Zone1
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:58 am

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
especially for window seated passengers. This is because the wall of the cabin curves inwards. It is like being in a small cylinder

This is the price you have to pay for 2-3-2 versus 3-3-3 seating.
/// U N I T E D
 
keesje
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:04 am

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
The A340 cabin is significantly inferior to the Boeing 777. The floor is unusually high to improve cargo capacity

 covereyes 

It it the right size for economy class 2-4-2 (max. one passenger away from the aisle), business 2-2-2 (no middle seats) and first 1-2-1 (everyone an aisle seat).

The standard cargo containers fit in needly side by side.

Boeing first tried 7 abreast on the 767 then 9 abreast on the 777 and then developed the all new 787, 4 inch wider the A300/30/40/50..

Draw your conclusions.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
Birdwatching
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:07 am

All the things you probably hate about travelling are warm reminders that I'm home
 
TGV
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:08 am

A340/330 : 2-4-2 seating,
B777: 3-3-3 seating.

For me there is no discussion: give me a A340/330 anyday. I like window seats, but "double excuse seat" are horrible.

Furthermore the larger the cabin, the more people, and the more noise ! So better to have rows of 8 than rows of 9.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans
 
tjr16698
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:12 am

Must admit never to have felt particularly uncomfortable on A340s, and always aim for a window seat. There may be a difference compared to the 777, but to be honest I've not noticed.
Additionally, I agree with HS that the vast majority of passengers don't even know what they are flying in, so it's hardly likely to make a difference anyway. I recently asked someone, after they returned from a longhaul VIRGIN flight, what plane they flew on, and they said "not sure, had 2 engines"........

b.t.w. for someone feeling a little low on irony, i do know how many engines VS planes celebrate having..
all the best

TJR
 
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:13 am

Quoting Eugdog (Reply 3):
Imagine if you are business travellor facing a long haul flight - surely you would try to go on 787 then a more conventional aircraft with its low cabin pressure and very dry air. You would arrive at you business destination so much fresher and ready to do business!!!!

Tripe.

You base your travels on the airline, not the airplane. Your status with the carrier, its frequencies, and convenience. I doubt if the average Business traveller will switch from a BA 777 to say, for example, a Kuwait Airways 787 for the 1% higher cabin humidity, and the lofty airiness of the 787's ceiling.

As for economy passengers, I find the A340/A330s to be superior to the 777 in terms of creature comforts (all things like seat pitch especially, being equal). The 2-4-2 beats the 3-3-3 or the hideous 2-5-2 any day. I'm 6ft 2 and I sure as hell don't care if the ceiling slopes, but I find being trapped in a center 5 seat section, sheer torture.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
ba319-131
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:20 am

Quoting Eugdog (Reply 3):
Imagine if you are business travellor facing a long haul flight - surely you would try to go on 787 then a more conventional aircraft with its low cabin pressure and very dry air. You would arrive at you business destination so much fresher and ready to do business!!!!

-Given the choice, most Business Travellers will travel the with the airline they prefer, not the airplane.

Quoting TGV (Reply 10):
For me there is no discussion: give me a A340/330 anyday. I like window seats, but "double excuse seat" are horrible.

-Same here! And the 777 is just a noisy plane, hopefully the 787 will be better.
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Scorpio
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:21 am

What exactly was the intent of this thread, cause I don't get it?

Anyway..

The 777 indeed has a wider cabin, which may be important to some. But on the other hand, the A330/340's more narrow cabin means the chance of ending up in a middle seat is quite a bit lower, which also mean a great deal to many people, so I guess they pretty much cancel each other out.

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
I also understand the the 787 will have a more humid atmosphere and lower cabin pressure.

So will the A350.

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
The A330/340 seems to be a poor design choice

Yeah that explain why almost 1,000 of them have been sold  Yeah sure

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
the fuselarge is too narrow making it useless as a frieghter.

LOL! Useless as a freighter??? Have you taken a look at the bucketloads of A300s and A310s flying around as freighters? Well, they have the SAME 'useless' fuselage diameter...
 
USA1984
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:58 am

i think the A340 cabin is great. it is actually my favorite cabin in the sky. the newer cabin version features many clever design choices that are distinctly european.
 
cxsjr
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:19 am

I have to say that the first time I noticed this was earlier this week.

I flew out to JFK on a KLM 777 and sat in row 11, second row in economy. Getting a wing and engine view picture was quite easy with a wide angle lens.

However, coming back, we flew on KLM's latest A330, (... AOC, only 3 weeks old) and trying to get a wing and engine view form the front row of economy was a nightmare. I then realised that the windows in the A330 (and thus the A340) are more tilted upwards than the B777.

Thanks to you EugDog ... your thread now explains the reason for this - higher floors!

I have to say I'm on the wall with this one. 'A' seems to be far superior in terms of cabin noise but 'B' has a more comfortable cabin from the point of bins, windows etc, basically anything the airline doesn't influence.

I wonder why Airbus have copied Boeing with the contoured 777 style bins? - it certainly makes a vast improvement!
The world is a book, those who do not travel read only one page ....
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:19 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 8):
Boeing first tried 7 abreast on the 767 then 9 abreast on the 777 and then developed the all new 787, 4 inch wider the A300/30/40/50..

I thought it's 14 inches wider.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
wdleiser
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:21 am

Quoting Eugdog (Reply 3):
I agree that cabin size did not matter in the past. This is because cabins were very similar on Boeing and Airbus. This has all changed! The Boeing 787 having such a vastly superior cabin and the higher cabin temperature and humidiy this could really be a major selling point.

I think it is absolutely insane to have a warmer cabin. I get hot easily, and it is very hard to get cooler in an aircraft without pissing off some of the other passengers. I dont believe 300 people want to see me sitting in the nude. When you have a cooler cabin you are able to put on a blanket to stay comfortable. Now warmer plus more humid.... if you want heat and humid I invite you to Houston during any time of the year. You will quickly see high humidy + heat = miserable!
 
atmx2000
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:26 am

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 18):
I think it is absolutely insane to have a warmer cabin. I get hot easily, and it is very hard to get cooler in an aircraft without pissing off some of the other passengers. I dont believe 300 people want to see me sitting in the nude. When you have a cooler cabin you are able to put on a blanket to stay comfortable. Now warmer plus more humid.... if you want heat and humid I invite you to Houston during any time of the year. You will quickly see high humidy + heat = miserable!

I agree we don't want to see you nude. However, since he incorrectly said higher cabin temperature when he should have said higher cabin pressure, we hopefully won't have to endure your nakedness.  Wink
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
ba319-131
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:27 am

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 18):
I think it is absolutely insane to have a warmer cabin. I get hot easily

- I agree, and I also get hot easily. There is nothing worse than getting hot and sticky on a plane.
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scbriml
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:42 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
some 1000 orders for the A330/A340/A50

Airbus has sold nearly 2,000 planes with this fuselage cross-section, so there's no way it can be considered a failure.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
killjoy
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:50 am

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 20):
There is nothing worse than getting hot and sticky on a plane.

Depends on the situation, of course...

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
The A330/340 seems to be a poor design choice - the fuselarge is too narrow making it useless as a frieghter.

I thought they were "bad" at carrying freight due to MTOW-limitations, not width issues?
 
AJRfromSYR
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:53 am

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 18):
Now warmer plus more humid.... if you want heat and humid I invite you to Houston during any time of the year. You will quickly see high humidy + heat = miserable!

I think we are comparing 0% humidity to 15% or so... your thinking 100%. Stop over reacting.
-AJR-
 
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fanoftristars
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:04 am

Here are some great photos of how the airframes compare. First, this is the photo of the 764 and how the shoulder room is compared to the Airbus. The second photo shows the 777 with the A340 cross section built inside. Very interesting.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Craig Murray



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Royal S King



I've only ever flown the Airbus in Business class, and to be honest, I never noticed any lack of room, but then again, it was business class...
"FLY DELTA JETS"
 
atmx2000
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:32 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 8):
Boeing first tried 7 abreast on the 767 then 9 abreast on the 777 and then developed the all new 787, 4 inch wider the A300/30/40/50..

Draw your conclusions.

Well they made in 4 inch wider on the outside because they could make it much wider on the inside. The 787 is a plane designed to straddle the 8 across and 9 across space, just as the 777 was designed to straddle the 9 across and 10 across space.
ConcordeBoy is a twin supremacist!! He supports quadicide!!
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:35 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 8):
Boeing first tried 7 abreast on the 767 then 9 abreast on the 777 and then developed the all new 787, 4 inch wider the A300/30/40/50..

Draw your conclusions.

The conclusion I draw is that Boeing optimizes the fuselage to fit the mission as opposed to Airbus' "one size fits all' approach.

Which appraoch is winning in the market place?

Draw your conclusions.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
norcal
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:44 am

I have never been in a 330/340 cabin so I won't pass judgement, but I think the proper statement should be that the 330 fuselage is sinking the 340-600. All the extra weight needed to keep that long thin tube straight and stiff makes it so heavy and consequently (along with being 4 engines) inferior to the 773ER.

The beauty of the airbus approach though is that they save a lot of money in tooling and if one product stops selling they don't have to shut down production.

I have ridden on a 777 before and I loved the experience. Very spacious and nice cabin. Not to mention how cool those bins are.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:51 am

Quoting IRelayer (Reply 6):
It goes the other way too, let's remember. Airbus constantly touts the A32X's wider cabin width as an advantage over 737NG's. It is not an argument that is totally without merit...

Absolutely justified they are!! Airbus, I mean....the A320 is a MUCH more comfortable aircraft.....I've only flown on the 737-700 and I found it to be extremely claustrophobic.... yuck 
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:59 am

Quoting Keesje (Reply 8):
Boeing first tried 7 abreast on the 767 then 9 abreast on the 777

With all due respect, it only takes a look at the A346 structural efficency to wonder why Boeing opted for a wider 777 fuselage. More to the point, Boeing followed customer's request (namely CX) for a wider cabin during the Working Together confrences.

BoomBoom is absolutely correct.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 8):
Boeing first tried 7 abreast on the 767 then 9 abreast on the 777 and then developed the all new 787, 4 inch wider the A300/30/40/50..

Quite a bit more than 4 inches, and the extra space was cited as a deciding factor by AI. The 787's wider fuselage maximizes revenue cargo hold and passenger floor space by allocating crew rest to the crown area.

I would hardly call the 220-in fuselage perfect.
 
dalecary
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:12 am

9 abreast in the 787 v 8 abreast in the 330/350 was a telling factor in the QF/JQ order.
It's all about revenue potential for the airline.
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:20 am

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 28):
Absolutely justified they are!! Airbus, I mean....the A320 is a MUCH more comfortable aircraft.....I've only flown on the 737-700 and I found it to be extremely claustrophobic.... yuck

For years I flew on A320s without ever realizing they are a whopping 5 inches wider inside at seat level. Thats less than one inch per seat. It's not enough to really notice.

The truth is, if the plane is full, like most are today, both planes are extremely claustrophobic....
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
Arcano
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:24 am

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
The 777 cabin is much more spacious. As well as its it innovative cieling and the brilliantly designed overhead bins the walls are almost vertical.



Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
I just don't think most customers care what the inside of the plane looks like, to be honest

I care!, Although I define myself as very pro-boeing, the so famous curved cieling impressed me nothing, and it didn't feel any more room than the 343

Quoting TGV (Reply 10):
B777: 3-3-3 seating.

Agree, but under the 2-5-2 plan (as AA), you only have 1 "double excuse" seating, and more capacity.
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trex8
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:44 am

I spend far more time in 777s than A330/340s by far as I am a UA regular but I can say that I prefer the A330/340 cabin. The height thing doesn't do anything for me esp when it stops you from opening a closed overhead bin in the center while standing in the aisle on 2-5-2 cabins.Besides who stands up for more than a few minutes in a flight!
 
NW727251ADV
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:58 am

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 29):
Boeing followed customer's request (namely CX) for a wider cabin during the Working Together confrences

Once again you have come to the rescue. I agree with you a lot more often than not. And to be honest, you are the FIRST person other than me that I can recall bringing up this point.

I stated this in another thread a little while back when the same fools were saying "I prefer the A330 8-abreast to the crammed and uncomfortable 777 9- or 10-abreast...I don't know why Boeing did that". And my response was, Boeing only did what AIRLINES asked them to do. It was the AIRLINES who DEMANDED that Boeing make a fuselage wider than the 767 and DC-10 and L-1011. When Boeing was originally designing the 777 they wanted to make a cabin slightly wider than the 767. The AIRLINES said HELL NO, try again. Now that Boeing has done what the AIRLINES wanted, you get the passenger who always try to argue the "Prisoner In The Middle 5th" situation. The way A.netters on here talk one would think that EVERYTIME on of them flew on a 777 they were in the middle seat. They always try to use that to argue why the A330/340 is better but odds are MOST of these people have been fortunate enough that they usually dont get the middle seat. You throw the middle seat out of the equation and the 777 wins in comfort hands down.

Dont get mad at Boeing for its cabin layout, blame CX, BA, UA, QF, JL, and countless others. Boeing only did what they were demanded to do.
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abba
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:14 am

Quoting Eugdog (Reply 3):
The Boeing 787 having such a vastly superior cabin and the higher cabin temperature and humidiy this could really be a major selling point.

I have been on a few flights where cabin temprature was a problem - not becaue it was too low....

Quoting Tjr16698 (Reply 11):
what plane they flew on, and they said "not sure, had 2 engines"........

And your next questions should be: "On each wing?"

Quoting Jaysit (Reply 12):
The 2-4-2 beats the 3-3-3 or the hideous 2-5-2 any day

Or even worse 3-4-3 as on TG.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 17):
I thought it's 14 inches wider.

To allow for one more seat in an 2-5-2 layout for the time being. Sure - this plane is potential nightmare on its way. Interresting to see what will happen when (rather than if) international regulations concerning minium space for pax are applied!

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 31):
The truth is, if the plane is full, like most are today, both planes are extremely claustrophobic....

In particular the 777 with 10 abrest and no doubt also the 787 with 9. NOTHING in the world is as bad as 10 abrest in a 777 on a long trip.

Abba
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:20 am

Quoting NW727251ADV (Reply 34):
Boeing only did what AIRLINES asked them to do. It was the AIRLINES who DEMANDED that Boeing make a fuselage wider than the 767 and DC-10 and L-1011

Exactly right. And a lot of people seem to forget, it's the airlines who purchase the planes not the passengers. It's the airlines that configure the planes not Boeing. There may be a few pax that choose their flights on the basis of the type of aircraft, but I'm sure it's not many.

Also, some airlines (CO, DL) configure their 777 business class with six across, that must be very roomy.
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Del...elta_Airlines_Boeing_777-200_B.php

[Edited 2005-12-15 02:25:00]
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
gigneil
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:23 am

Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
The A330/340 seems to be a poor design choice - the fuselarge is too narrow making it useless as a frieghter.

Hah. Tell that to every freight operator in the world.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 17):
I thought it's 14 inches wider.

It isn't.

Quoting BoomBoom (Reply 26):
The conclusion I draw is that Boeing optimizes the fuselage to fit the mission as opposed to Airbus' "one size fits all' approach.

Which appraoch is winning in the market place?

But at what cost? Airbus makes 3 fuse widths now. For the moment, Boeing is now making 6. 6!

There is a reason Airbus planes are cheaper and Airbus is more profitable. This is a primary one.

Quoting DfwRevolution (Reply 29):
Quite a bit more than 4 inches, and the extra space was cited as a deciding factor by AI. The 787's wider fuselage maximizes revenue cargo hold and passenger floor space by allocating crew rest to the crown area.

I would hardly call the 220-in fuselage perfect.

Its 222 inches and the 787 is only going to be 226. That's not quite a bit more than 4 inches.

N
 
BoomBoom
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:30 am

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 37):
But at what cost? Airbus makes 3 fuse widths now. For the moment, Boeing is now making 6. 6!

And Boeing is dominating the widebody market. Losing these sales campaigns is a BIG cost for Airbus.

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 37):
There is a reason Airbus planes are cheaper and Airbus is more profitable. This is a primary one.

I agree, Airbus planes are cheaper. I'm not so sure Airbus is more profitable due to differences in European and US accounting procedures.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
sllevin
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:36 am

One thing I will say about 2-2-2 on the A330 is that you end up with wicked narrow aisles. An inch or two doesn't sound like much, but it's very noticable if you are in an aisle seat, that you get bumped a shedload more during the flight.

Toss in a slightly 'less than Olympian gymnast' crew, and I was constantly being jostled on the SFO-NRT flight I just took. As a general rule this happens a lot less on the 777 (although I'm not a huge fan of middle J seats, but nothing's perfect).

Steve
 
DarthRandall
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:02 am

Quoting Eugdog (Reply 3):
I agree that cabin size did not matter in the past. This is because cabins were very similar on Boeing and Airbus. This has all changed!

It has, but not nearly as dramatically as all that. The next generation of aircraft will indeed be more comfortable, and people will notice. However, I doubt the folks in cattle class will consider eschewing lower prices in favor of flying on the aircraft they prefer, at least not in any significant number. Business and first are comfortable no matter what aircraft you fly on.

That said, I have had several clients ask me to switch them from regionals to slightly more expensive A320 flights before. That typically occurs after they have me explain what an E-145 is. However, when it comes to the differences between an A330 and a 787, I don't know that they would be so picky.

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 20):
- I agree, and I also get hot easily. There is nothing worse than getting hot and sticky on a plane.

Yes there is--the pungent, overweight individual who is spilling over your arm rest getting all hot and sticky.
Ninjas can kill anyone they want! Ninjas cut off heads all the time and don't even think twice about it.
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:33 am

I am getting more and more convinced that the A350 is becoming a 787 copycat. Announcing that they are using more composites, etc, etc. The latest thing that has convinced me of this is that Airbus is going from a 6 panel cockpit screen to a four panel. Hmmm, that is just like the ........... you guessed it, the 787. I saw this info on this very website, but I don't remember which post it was in.

I don't expect this post to last more than a couple hours anyways, but I apologize. I have had a few as I write this.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
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N328KF
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:05 pm

Quoting Gigneil (Reply 37):
There is a reason Airbus planes are cheaper and Airbus is more profitable. This is a primary one.

On what planet is the A350 cheaper than the 787?*

* with the knowledge we currently possess
When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' -Theodore Roosevelt
 
gigneil
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:24 pm

The A350-800 is cheaper than the 787-9, and the A350-900 is certainly cheaper than the 777-200ER.

A340s are significantly cheaper than 777s.

N
 
gigneil
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:28 pm

Quoting Boeing nut (Reply 41):
The latest thing that has convinced me of this is that Airbus is going from a 6 panel cockpit screen to a four panel.

Where did you hear that?

N
 
N1120A
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:47 pm

Quoting BA319-131 (Reply 5):
Quoting Eugdog (Thread starter):
The A330/340 seems to be a poor design choice - the fuselarge is too narrow making it useless as a frieghter

-What? The fuselage is the same width as the A300/A310 which are excellent freighters.........

Actually, the reason the A330 and A340 are crap freighters because their payload/weight ratio is horrid

Quoting TGV (Reply 10):

A340/330 : 2-4-2 seating,
B777: 3-3-3 seating.

For me there is no discussion: give me a A340/330 anyday. I like window seats, but "double excuse seat" are horrible.

Furthermore the larger the cabin, the more people, and the more noise ! So better to have rows of 8 than rows of 9.

You can have a 2-5-2 777 and 777s and A340s are roughly the same size
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
gigneil
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:50 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 45):
Actually, the reason the A330 and A340 are crap freighters because their payload/weight ratio is horrid

The A330-200 is going to be a FANTASTIC freighter.

N
 
TexasLonghorn
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:21 pm

Quoting Fanoftristars (Reply 24):

Here are some great photos of how the airframes compare. First, this is the photo of the 764 and how the shoulder room is compared to the Airbus. The second photo shows the 777 with the A340 cross section built inside. Very interesting.

Thanks for the photos, Fanoftristars. Based on the picture comparing the A340 interior to the 777, I would much rather be on a 777.

This talk of a warmer cabin and getting "hot and sticky" is irrelevant. The increase in the 787's cabin pressure and humidity will not make you feel sticky. Instead, your body will be healthier for it. According to a talk given by 787 chief engineer Walt Gillette, our body's cells start to die at the low cabin pressures found on most airliners. The 787's pressure is such that this will not occur.
 
nethkt
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:30 pm

Oh, gosh, I just prefer the high ceiling on B777s. It gives me good feeling and nice atmosphere when flying longhaul.

I don't mind 2-4-2 or 3-3-3. For sure, there shoud be more seats when the cabin is significently wider.

Humid is absolutely good for your body and blood curculation. I don't know why people always blame humidity. Just take a shower if you feel so sticky!!

Ofcourse, A330s/A340s are far inferior from B777s in term of performances. Not counting the tail/trim tank inoperative problem which you won't see it with B777s. And the RTOW restrictions on nearly all A340s long haul flights departing from high-temperatured airports.
Let's just blame it on yields.
 
Condor24
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RE: Is The A340 Cabin Sinking The A340 And A350!

Thu Dec 15, 2005 3:49 pm

As a fare paying passenger, fortunately I mostly fly long haul in F Class with either CX or BA, and the 747 wins hands down. The front cabin has the galley behind it and rows 2 or 3 are the best seats in the house. In the event I''m flying J class, the 747 upper deck is unique. Whilst the A340 / 330 are fine products, I do prefer the 777 / 767 ... the 777 has a more spacious feel and in the long term, the build quality seems more superior. That through the eyes of an experienced & observant fare paying passenger.
'Condor, the span to fly'