aerohottie
Posts: 706
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:52 pm

QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:00 am

Now that Qantas have rebuffed the A345 and 772LR, does this open the door for NZ to operate ULH flights to ORD and NYC direct from AKL, connecting with various tasman flights?

I think this is now an opportunity NZ must explore, and would surely be a great money spinner.
What do you think?

Also, slightly off topic, but do you think a AKL-HNL-YYZ flight would work if NZ was to also operate AKL-YVR direct?
What?
 
JoFMO
Posts: 1840
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2004 1:55 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:42 am

Fully agree, I hope NZ comes to NYC and ORD nonstop.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 23209
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:09 am

NZ does have an opportunity to launch some long-haul runs from AKL if they decide to add the 772LR to their 772ERs. Evidently they were considering some 772LRs a few years back before they ran into their financial hardships.

I would think AC will probably go direct to SYD from Canada now with their 772LRs, dropping the HNL stop, in addition to using two for YVR-HKG.

[Edited 2005-12-15 02:35:33]
 
aerokiwi
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jul 30, 2000 1:17 pm

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:20 am

While I think there would be a market there for NZ to fly to ORD and NYC from AKL nonstop, I doubt that either would warrant more than 3 services a week at most. That is, unless NZ flies there from Sydney, which could probably support a daily nonstop to NYC.
 
Motorhussy
Posts: 3251
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:49 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:34 am

I've always thought NZ should offer a:

MEL-AKL-JFK/EWR daily flight taking advantage of the T7 options they've got and convert two to a 200LR sale.

They should also have it coincide with the:

SYD-AKL-LAX flight so as to offer these passengers a one stop alternative to New York from the LAX (with QF) and PPT (with Air Tahiti-Nui).

A shame that a twin engine could never do the southern polar route to Chile or Argentina economically. Be a great link-up to Varig.

Regards
MH
come visit the south pacific
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 10:55 am

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 3):
That is, unless NZ flies there from Sydney, which could probably support a daily nonstop to NYC.

Does NZ totally have a 5th right in the Australia-USA market?

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 4):
A shame that a twin engine could never do the southern polar route to Chile or Argentina economically.

NZ always could fly SCL or EZE via PPT. Or using the Iberia-Air Atlanta's style Big grin and make a lease for additional 747/340s
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
bill142
Posts: 7853
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:50 pm

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:24 am

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 5):
Does NZ totally have a 5th right in the Australia-USA market?

Yes NZ used to have a daily SYD-LAX non-stop.
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 11:58 am

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 6):
...used to have...

Thanks, Bill, but I did know ...and what about nowadays? Did NZ stop that route? What kind of competition does QF have between and Australia and the US? What about UA?
Thanks in advance!
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18263
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:00 pm

Quoting Aerohottie (Thread starter):
does this open the door for NZ to operate ULH flights to ORD and NYC direct from AKL,

Who would want to fly from NZ to the US and skip California?

It is one of the largest economies in the world, bigger than many countries, and it has more tourist destinations than any other single state in the US, except Florida.

It is the natural point of contact between NZ and the US.

There may be a few, a very few people whose business contacts are only in New York, and less for Chicago, but there can't be many, and why would they want to miss out on time in LA or SF?

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
sunrisevalley
Posts: 5009
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:26 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 1:38 pm

I have been pondering for some time the possibility that the last three of the eight -200ER's ordered might be changed to -200LR. Thus sometime in the second half of 2006 NZ would have the capability of commencing a SYD/AKL/JFK service. I will concede that the PVG service will start in that period and that NZ adopt a very deliberate pace when adding new routes. In a posting under the "AC re-confirms 777,787 order" Widebodyphotog provided in detail the improvements made to the -200LR and it's engines that , among other things , gave the -200LR a 3% better fuel burn per unit of payload over the -200ER beyond 2000nm. The payload/range chart included with that posting shows pretty graphically what the improvements translate into. In fact I wonder why NZ would want anymore -200ER's than what they have after they receive the third in late January. I do not know what their contractural obligations are to Rolls and whether they can back out of engines for the eight -200ER's on order directly or through ILC.
The alternative is that the next order could include some -200LR's. It was pretty much confirmed on this list that the recent order for an additional two 787's was to protect production slots and/or match 767-300ER retirements and that there is another order pending. Also the LR visited AKL during a recent whistle and stop tour. These sort of things don't happen on a whim. Mariner makes a valid point on the attractiveness on California as a destination. But I am thinking of what some of my Kiwi relies have done when they make their second trip to North America. They have come to the East Coast and picked up tours that inevitably include Niagara Falls and some days in NYC , Washington DC and Williamsburg Va to name but a few destinations. As I have said on this list in the past I would love to be able to fly to NYC or ORD and transfer onto an about one-hour flight to YYZ. The East Coast has to be a big market for fresh N.Z. berry fruits, fish and lamb and the payload that would be available east bound on the -200LR would be very attractive for this trade.
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9864
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:07 pm

Quoting Anxebla (Reply 7):
and what about nowadays? Did NZ stop that route? What kind of competition does QF have between and Australia and the US? What about UA?

Yes NZ stopped the route a year or two ago and at the same time UA dropped AKL. UA took over NZs depature from SYD-LAX and NZ expanded their AKL-LAX services. QFs only competition on the SYD-LAX route is UA, but SQ is wanting access to SYD-LAX and DJ is thinking of it. UA also flys SYD-MEL but as an add on
Head Forum Moderator
moderators@airliners.net for all Moderator contact
 
Mr AirNZ
Posts: 857
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2002 10:24 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 2:25 pm

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 9):
I have been pondering for some time the possibility that the last three of the eight -200ER's ordered might be changed to -200LR.

Virtually impossible!
 
User avatar
NZ1
Crew
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 1:32 pm

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:25 pm

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 11):
Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 9):
I have been pondering for some time the possibility that the last three of the eight -200ER's ordered might be changed to -200LR.

Virtually impossible!

Ditto. All 8 777's ordered will be -200ER's. Final

NZ1
--
NZ1
Head Forum Moderator
 
Simpilicity
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 4:21 pm

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:32 pm

Quoting Aerohottie (Thread starter):
Also, slightly off topic, but do you think a AKL-HNL-YYZ flight would work if NZ was to also operate AKL-YVR direct?

AKL/YVR will be operated by wide body on a charter basis wirthin 12 months.

Charter means low cost. NZ or QF can't compete with charters.
 
777ER
Crew
Posts: 9864
Joined: Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:04 pm

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 6:21 pm

Quoting Simpilicity (Reply 14):
Quoting Aerohottie (Thread starter):
Also, slightly off topic, but do you think a AKL-HNL-YYZ flight would work if NZ was to also operate AKL-YVR direct?

AKL/YVR will be operated by wide body on a charter basis wirthin 12 months.

Charter means low cost. NZ or QF can't compete with charters.

Is there something that you know simpilicity, that we don't?
Head Forum Moderator
moderators@airliners.net for all Moderator contact
 
ZKOJH
Posts: 1457
Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 9:51 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 7:55 pm

freedomair are going into the long haul market!! lol,
Vietnam time..
 
User avatar
NZ1
Crew
Posts: 1774
Joined: Sat May 01, 2004 1:32 pm

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Thu Dec 15, 2005 8:12 pm

Quoting Zkojh (Reply 15):
freedomair are going into the long haul market!! lol,

Freedomair are not a charter airline dude.

NZ1
--
NZ1
Head Forum Moderator
 
HanginOut
Posts: 521
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 3:24 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Fri Dec 16, 2005 3:35 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
I would think AC will probably go direct to SYD from Canada now with their 772LRs, dropping the HNL stop, in addition to using two for YVR-HKG.

AC will use 772LRs YVR-SYD, but will use the 773ERs YVR-HKG, instead the 772LRs will also be used on the YYZ-HKG route.

HanginOut
Dreaming of the day I can work for an airline
 
aerohottie
Posts: 706
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:52 pm

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Fri Dec 16, 2005 5:40 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 8):
Who would want to fly from NZ to the US and skip California?

It is one of the largest economies in the world, bigger than many countries, and it has more tourist destinations than any other single state in the US, except Florida.

It is the natural point of contact between NZ and the US.

There may be a few, a very few people whose business contacts are only in New York, and less for Chicago, but there can't be many, and why would they want to miss out on time in LA or SF?

I'm not saying to drop CA services to operate NYC and ORD services... I'm saying to operate these services as well as the current offering.
I also think there is more than enough traffic from both New Zealand and Australia to fill both flights on a daily basis... esp if the 777LR was configured in a comfy 250 seat layout (hint hint).

I would personall like NZ to operate many more North American services including AKL-LAX 2 daily, AKL-SFO daily, AKL-YVR daily, AKL-ORD daily and AKL-NYC daily... perhaps even a AKL-HNL-YYZ. How many aircraft would this require by the way??? 5 744's 4 777ER's and 5 777LR's and 1 788, does this sound about right???

And of course all of these flights continue onto tasman services to MEL, SYD, BNE, ADL and PER
What?
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18263
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Fri Dec 16, 2005 6:10 am

Quoting Aerohottie (Reply 18):
I'm saying to operate these services as well as the current offering.

I understand that. I'm saying that I doubt there is enough traffic for AKL/NYC or AKL/ORD non-stop on an economic basis.

The natural connection is California. Why fly in the face of what people actually want to do?

I understand that this is all Big Boys Toys - we do it because we can! - which is the reason that Qantas wants a hub-buster - just to show that they can.

And yes, I would like to see Air NZ operate more services to North America, especially since they have ceded all of South America entirely to foreign airlines.

cheers

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
anxebla
Posts: 1696
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 8:31 am

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:00 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 10):
but SQ is wanting access to SYD-LAX

I assume SQ will have not access to the non-stop Australia-US market. Some airlines are very ambitious. In Madrid It's rumoured that EK or Qatar Airways could try serving the Argentine market via MAD ...competing with IB and AR. But the Spanish Aviation Authority will say NOT for sure.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
especially since they have ceded all of South America entirely to foreign airlines.

I wonder why NZ is handing over the entire South American market to LA & AR
AIRBUS 320 The world's most advanced single-aisle aircraft
 
aerohottie
Posts: 706
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:52 pm

RE: QF Open Door To NZ ULR Flights

Fri Dec 16, 2005 7:17 am

Quoting Mariner (Reply 19):
The natural connection is California. Why fly in the face of what people actually want to do?

I'm not sure if I agree that California is the natural connection... it just happens to be so at this point in time because there is no alternative. Australians I'm sure would rather connect in Auckland rather than the hassle of LAX, and NZ traffic would have a direct flight, which I'm sure would be fondly looked upon rather than an int to don connection in LAX or SFO. There is quite alot of business traffic MEL/SYD-NYC/ORD, I would assume that perhaps 2/3 of the aircraft would aussie traffic
What?